Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

February 28, 2008

Here is what Micro$oft has been up to lately regarding their desire to

abide by the rule of law and the respect of the courts.

Now explain to me again why we should abide by Macroshaft's EULA's.

What a joke - no, what a fraud of a company.

Their best years are clearly behind them.

--------------------------------------

http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/02/microsoft-slapp.html

Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

By Betsy Schiffman February 27, 2008

The European Commission stands to make a tidy profit off Microsoft's

objectionable business practices. The commission fined Microsoft a

record €899 million, or $1.35 billion, for failing to comply with its

previous 2004 antitrust ruling (in which the company was fined the

equivalent of $613 million).

The commission found that Microsoft unreasonably charged third-parties

for access to documentation that would allow them to develop

compatible software for Windows-based computers.

Essentially, Microsoft now has to pay more than double what it would

have four years ago for its unwillingness to comply with the

commission's previous order. Still, for Microsoft it's just the cost

of doing business.

"The company previously said [the fine] could be as high as $1.5

billion, so from that standpoint, it's better than what it could have

been," says Sid Parakh, an analyst with McAdams Wright Ragen. "The

more important thing going forward are the two remaining cases."

An equally important question is how this ruling bodes for the

Microsoft-Yahoo deal. If it's taken Google nearly a year to clear its

acquisition of DoubleClick with European regulators -- and it hasn't

closed yet -- will Microsoft have better luck clearing the Yahoo deal?

"The acquisition of Yahoo would certainly be closely looked at --

especially at how it will affect the consumer," Parakh says. "But it's

hard to say how the commission will respond. At this point, it's fair

to say that Google is the big market share leader in search. But you

never know what aspect of the deal will be scrutinized by the

commission."

Other costs for behaving badly:

Microsoft agrees to pay Sun Microsystems $700 million to settle an

antitrust case, and an additional $900 million to resolve patent

issues. (April 2004)

Microsoft ordered to pay Eolas $521 million in a patent infringement

case related to Internet Explorer. (March 2005)

Microsoft agrees to pay IBM $775 million to settle an antitrust case.

(July 2005)

Microsoft agrees to pay RealNetworks $761 million to settle an

antitrust case. (October 2005)

Microsoft agrees to pay $179 million to Iowa consumers and businesses

in a class-action antitrust case. (February 2007)

February 28, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

> Their best years are clearly behind them.

AGREED! And whenever I think of Micro$oft now I pinch my nose.

Of course the sharp minded individual will know GREED is the evil which

drives MS management and their underhanded schemes!

"98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:47C612FA.50BDD944@Guy.com...

> Here is what Micro$oft has been up to lately regarding their desire to

> abide by the rule of law and the respect of the courts.

>

> Now explain to me again why we should abide by Macroshaft's EULA's.

>

> What a joke - no, what a fraud of a company.

>

> Their best years are clearly behind them.

>

> --------------------------------------

>

> http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/02/microsoft-slapp.html

>

> Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

>

> By Betsy Schiffman February 27, 2008

>

> The European Commission stands to make a tidy profit off Microsoft's

> objectionable business practices. The commission fined Microsoft a

> record ?899 million, or $1.35 billion, for failing to comply with its

> previous 2004 antitrust ruling (in which the company was fined the

> equivalent of $613 million).

>

> The commission found that Microsoft unreasonably charged third-parties

> for access to documentation that would allow them to develop

> compatible software for Windows-based computers.

>

> Essentially, Microsoft now has to pay more than double what it would

> have four years ago for its unwillingness to comply with the

> commission's previous order. Still, for Microsoft it's just the cost

> of doing business.

>

> "The company previously said [the fine] could be as high as $1.5

> billion, so from that standpoint, it's better than what it could have

> been," says Sid Parakh, an analyst with McAdams Wright Ragen. "The

> more important thing going forward are the two remaining cases."

>

> An equally important question is how this ruling bodes for the

> Microsoft-Yahoo deal. If it's taken Google nearly a year to clear its

> acquisition of DoubleClick with European regulators -- and it hasn't

> closed yet -- will Microsoft have better luck clearing the Yahoo deal?

>

> "The acquisition of Yahoo would certainly be closely looked at --

> especially at how it will affect the consumer," Parakh says. "But it's

> hard to say how the commission will respond. At this point, it's fair

> to say that Google is the big market share leader in search. But you

> never know what aspect of the deal will be scrutinized by the

> commission."

>

> Other costs for behaving badly:

>

> Microsoft agrees to pay Sun Microsystems $700 million to settle an

> antitrust case, and an additional $900 million to resolve patent

> issues. (April 2004)

>

> Microsoft ordered to pay Eolas $521 million in a patent infringement

> case related to Internet Explorer. (March 2005)

>

> Microsoft agrees to pay IBM $775 million to settle an antitrust case.

> (July 2005)

>

> Microsoft agrees to pay RealNetworks $761 million to settle an

> antitrust case. (October 2005)

>

> Microsoft agrees to pay $179 million to Iowa consumers and businesses

> in a class-action antitrust case. (February 2007)

February 28, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

IDIOTS !

Ever stop to think what crap GUI's, if any, for IBM PC compatibles would be

available, were it not for MS backing up their GUI | OS's with the benefit

and power of Microsoft being a multi-billion / global company ?

....oh, ...did I hear someone say "Linux" ....<ROFL>

...."MAC" ...very few home users can afford, the ludicrous prices for

Apple/Mac hardware and software !

Of course, it would be nice for MS platforms to be free but, I don't think

that's going to happen very soon !

All of those, sat there at home, using system boxes built from the

wonderfully vast range of IBM PC compatible components, that mostly work

wonderfully well with MS Windows platforms in them, and those who shout the

loudest in condemnation of Microsoft whilst applauding court actions against

them, are simply HYPOCRITS !!!

There's always a few that through inexperience, or incompetence, achieve a

problematic Windows installation.

I suspect that for every single loud mouth shouting abuse at MS and

applauding recent court action successes against MS, there are a million

unheard people, that quite like MS Windows, and get along just fine with it

!

regards, Richard

"none" <nospam@bogusaddress.com> wrote in message

news:OQ8wWGgeIHA.4056@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> Their best years are clearly behind them.

>

> AGREED! And whenever I think of Micro$oft now I pinch my nose.

> Of course the sharp minded individual will know GREED is the evil which

> drives MS management and their underhanded schemes!

>

> "98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:47C612FA.50BDD944@Guy.com...

>> Here is what Micro$oft has been up to lately regarding their desire to

>> abide by the rule of law and the respect of the courts.

>>

>> Now explain to me again why we should abide by Macroshaft's EULA's.

>>

>> What a joke - no, what a fraud of a company.

>>

>> Their best years are clearly behind them.

>>

>> --------------------------------------

>>

>> http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/02/microsoft-slapp.html

>>

>> Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

>>

>> By Betsy Schiffman February 27, 2008

>>

>> The European Commission stands to make a tidy profit off Microsoft's

>> objectionable business practices. The commission fined Microsoft a

>> record ?899 million, or $1.35 billion, for failing to comply with its

>> previous 2004 antitrust ruling (in which the company was fined the

>> equivalent of $613 million).

>>

>> The commission found that Microsoft unreasonably charged third-parties

>> for access to documentation that would allow them to develop

>> compatible software for Windows-based computers.

>>

>> Essentially, Microsoft now has to pay more than double what it would

>> have four years ago for its unwillingness to comply with the

>> commission's previous order. Still, for Microsoft it's just the cost

>> of doing business.

>>

>> "The company previously said [the fine] could be as high as $1.5

>> billion, so from that standpoint, it's better than what it could have

>> been," says Sid Parakh, an analyst with McAdams Wright Ragen. "The

>> more important thing going forward are the two remaining cases."

>>

>> An equally important question is how this ruling bodes for the

>> Microsoft-Yahoo deal. If it's taken Google nearly a year to clear its

>> acquisition of DoubleClick with European regulators -- and it hasn't

>> closed yet -- will Microsoft have better luck clearing the Yahoo deal?

>>

>> "The acquisition of Yahoo would certainly be closely looked at --

>> especially at how it will affect the consumer," Parakh says. "But it's

>> hard to say how the commission will respond. At this point, it's fair

>> to say that Google is the big market share leader in search. But you

>> never know what aspect of the deal will be scrutinized by the

>> commission."

>>

>> Other costs for behaving badly:

>>

>> Microsoft agrees to pay Sun Microsystems $700 million to settle an

>> antitrust case, and an additional $900 million to resolve patent

>> issues. (April 2004)

>>

>> Microsoft ordered to pay Eolas $521 million in a patent infringement

>> case related to Internet Explorer. (March 2005)

>>

>> Microsoft agrees to pay IBM $775 million to settle an antitrust case.

>> (July 2005)

>>

>> Microsoft agrees to pay RealNetworks $761 million to settle an

>> antitrust case. (October 2005)

>>

>> Microsoft agrees to pay $179 million to Iowa consumers and businesses

>> in a class-action antitrust case. (February 2007)

>

February 28, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

RJK wrote:

> IDIOTS !

>

> Ever stop to think what crap GUI's, if any, for IBM PC compatibles would be

> available, were it not for MS backing up their GUI | OS's with the benefit

> and power of Microsoft being a multi-billion / global company ?

>

Ever stop to think what might be if Bill Gates hadn't stolen the GUI

from Apple?

Guess we'd be kow-towing to Apple instead of Microsoft. No matter, we'd

still

be getting it stuck to us, regardless.

February 28, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

Bill Gates and colleagues ? apparantly bought the "micro" from IBM who

failed to spot the huge potential in the home market i.e. IBM were only

interested in the bigger stuff like mainframes, I don't think Apple came

into it, ...mind you, it was a long time ago that I read up on this subject.

regards, Richard

"Planer" <noone@nowherenohow.com> wrote in message

news:yZExj.132$Fs5.108@bignews2.bellsouth.net...

> RJK wrote:

>> IDIOTS !

>>

>> Ever stop to think what crap GUI's, if any, for IBM PC compatibles would

>> be available, were it not for MS backing up their GUI | OS's with the

>> benefit and power of Microsoft being a multi-billion / global company ?

>>

>

> Ever stop to think what might be if Bill Gates hadn't stolen the GUI from

> Apple?

> Guess we'd be kow-towing to Apple instead of Microsoft. No matter, we'd

> still

> be getting it stuck to us, regardless.

February 28, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

Right on, Richard. Couldn't agree more. The ABM (anything but MS) crowd is

VERY small, but very vocal. Thank goodness that Larry Ellison or Scott

McNealy aren't running Microsoft!!!

====================================================

"RJK" <notatospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:%23rj4eUjeIHA.4464@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

IDIOTS !

Ever stop to think what crap GUI's, if any, for IBM PC compatibles would be

available, were it not for MS backing up their GUI | OS's with the benefit

and power of Microsoft being a multi-billion / global company ?

....oh, ...did I hear someone say "Linux" ....<ROFL>

...."MAC" ...very few home users can afford, the ludicrous prices for

Apple/Mac hardware and software !

Of course, it would be nice for MS platforms to be free but, I don't think

that's going to happen very soon !

All of those, sat there at home, using system boxes built from the

wonderfully vast range of IBM PC compatible components, that mostly work

wonderfully well with MS Windows platforms in them, and those who shout the

loudest in condemnation of Microsoft whilst applauding court actions against

them, are simply HYPOCRITS !!!

There's always a few that through inexperience, or incompetence, achieve a

problematic Windows installation.

I suspect that for every single loud mouth shouting abuse at MS and

applauding recent court action successes against MS, there are a million

unheard people, that quite like MS Windows, and get along just fine with it

!

regards, Richard

"none" <nospam@bogusaddress.com> wrote in message

news:OQ8wWGgeIHA.4056@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> Their best years are clearly behind them.

>

> AGREED! And whenever I think of Micro$oft now I pinch my nose.

> Of course the sharp minded individual will know GREED is the evil which

> drives MS management and their underhanded schemes!

>

> "98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:47C612FA.50BDD944@Guy.com...

>> Here is what Micro$oft has been up to lately regarding their desire to

>> abide by the rule of law and the respect of the courts.

>>

>> Now explain to me again why we should abide by Macroshaft's EULA's.

>>

>> What a joke - no, what a fraud of a company.

>>

>> Their best years are clearly behind them.

>>

>> --------------------------------------

>>

>> http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/02/microsoft-slapp.html

>>

>> Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

>>

>> By Betsy Schiffman February 27, 2008

>>

>> The European Commission stands to make a tidy profit off Microsoft's

>> objectionable business practices. The commission fined Microsoft a

>> record ?899 million, or $1.35 billion, for failing to comply with its

>> previous 2004 antitrust ruling (in which the company was fined the

>> equivalent of $613 million).

>>

>> The commission found that Microsoft unreasonably charged third-parties

>> for access to documentation that would allow them to develop

>> compatible software for Windows-based computers.

>>

>> Essentially, Microsoft now has to pay more than double what it would

>> have four years ago for its unwillingness to comply with the

>> commission's previous order. Still, for Microsoft it's just the cost

>> of doing business.

>>

>> "The company previously said [the fine] could be as high as $1.5

>> billion, so from that standpoint, it's better than what it could have

>> been," says Sid Parakh, an analyst with McAdams Wright Ragen. "The

>> more important thing going forward are the two remaining cases."

>>

>> An equally important question is how this ruling bodes for the

>> Microsoft-Yahoo deal. If it's taken Google nearly a year to clear its

>> acquisition of DoubleClick with European regulators -- and it hasn't

>> closed yet -- will Microsoft have better luck clearing the Yahoo deal?

>>

>> "The acquisition of Yahoo would certainly be closely looked at --

>> especially at how it will affect the consumer," Parakh says. "But it's

>> hard to say how the commission will respond. At this point, it's fair

>> to say that Google is the big market share leader in search. But you

>> never know what aspect of the deal will be scrutinized by the

>> commission."

>>

>> Other costs for behaving badly:

>>

>> Microsoft agrees to pay Sun Microsystems $700 million to settle an

>> antitrust case, and an additional $900 million to resolve patent

>> issues. (April 2004)

>>

>> Microsoft ordered to pay Eolas $521 million in a patent infringement

>> case related to Internet Explorer. (March 2005)

>>

>> Microsoft agrees to pay IBM $775 million to settle an antitrust case.

>> (July 2005)

>>

>> Microsoft agrees to pay RealNetworks $761 million to settle an

>> antitrust case. (October 2005)

>>

>> Microsoft agrees to pay $179 million to Iowa consumers and businesses

>> in a class-action antitrust case. (February 2007)

>

February 28, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

Re: GUI

Here are the real inventors. Both Jobs and Gates benefited from PARC's

pioneering work on GUIs

http://www.parc.com/

======================================================

"Planer" <noone@nowherenohow.com> wrote in message

news:yZExj.132$Fs5.108@bignews2.bellsouth.net...

RJK wrote:

> IDIOTS !

>

> Ever stop to think what crap GUI's, if any, for IBM PC compatibles would

be

> available, were it not for MS backing up their GUI | OS's with the benefit

> and power of Microsoft being a multi-billion / global company ?

>

Ever stop to think what might be if Bill Gates hadn't stolen the GUI

from Apple?

Guess we'd be kow-towing to Apple instead of Microsoft. No matter, we'd

still

be getting it stuck to us, regardless.

February 28, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

RJK wrote:

> IDIOTS !

>

> Ever stop to think what crap GUI's, if any, for IBM PC compatibles would be

> available, were it not for MS backing up their GUI | OS's with the benefit

> and power of Microsoft being a multi-billion / global company ?

>

> ...oh, ...did I hear someone say "Linux" ....<ROFL>

> ..."MAC" ...very few home users can afford, the ludicrous prices for

> Apple/Mac hardware and software !

>

> Of course, it would be nice for MS platforms to be free but, I don't think

> that's going to happen very soon !

>

> All of those, sat there at home, using system boxes built from the

> wonderfully vast range of IBM PC compatible components, that mostly work

> wonderfully well with MS Windows platforms in them, and those who shout the

> loudest in condemnation of Microsoft whilst applauding court actions against

> them, are simply HYPOCRITS !!!

>

> There's always a few that through inexperience, or incompetence, achieve a

> problematic Windows installation.

> I suspect that for every single loud mouth shouting abuse at MS and

> applauding recent court action successes against MS, there are a million

> unheard people, that quite like MS Windows, and get along just fine with it

> !

This is all very well, Richard, but let's remember what this story was

about, shall we?

Microsoft were ordered to do something by a court. They did not do it.

That's why they were fined.

You can go on as much as you like about how Gates was the saviour of

home computer, yadda yadda (a moot point), but that doesn't excuse MS'

flouting of the law.

Put it like this: if, when I was about 11, I'd generously cut the grass

for an elderly neighbour for free, but then when I was 13 had chucked

rocks through her windows, does that mean I shouldn't be punished for that?

--

Regards

Nigel Stapley

http://www.judgemental.plus.com

<reply-to will bounce>

February 28, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

mmm.... I don't quite follow your analogy but, regarding MS's court battle,

a while ago, to do with IE (web-browser) being "too" integrated into

Windows - which software writers of other web-browsers, (like Netscape which

never worked properly), didn't like, ...the whole fiasco seemed to me,

nothing more than a thinly disguised and greedy money making vendetta

against Microsoft.

Anyhoooooo, I'll try an analogy.

A group of business people get together and set up a company called

WonderCar, and they manufacture ALL parts of the car including the engine !

(i.e. they don't even buy in engines from, e.g. Ford).

The car sells very well - hundreds of thousands are shipped worldwide.

Later, another car manufacturer, (hitting upon the idea that a lot of

money could be made if WonderCar was forced to change their engine mounting

design so that its' engines would fit into the WonderCar), the predatory

"other" car manufacturer brings a law suit against WonderCar, demanding that

it changes the WonderCar engine mounting brackets, so that should a

WonderCar owner feel the need to fit a different engine, the "other car

manufacturer's engine" would fit !

Quite why the WonderCar owner would want to fit a different engine, when the

one supplied with it worked perfectly well, is perhaps irrelevant to various

aspects of the "money-making" procedure !

LOL !

(...too tired to correct grammar, punctuation, and other faults but, I'm

sure you get the gist of it :-)

regards, Richard

"Nigel Stapley" <unet@judgemental.plus.com> wrote in message

news:13seejr3pl9cl05@corp.supernews.com...

> RJK wrote:

>> IDIOTS !

>>

>> Ever stop to think what crap GUI's, if any, for IBM PC compatibles would

>> be available, were it not for MS backing up their GUI | OS's with the

>> benefit and power of Microsoft being a multi-billion / global company ?

>>

>> ...oh, ...did I hear someone say "Linux" ....<ROFL>

>> ..."MAC" ...very few home users can afford, the ludicrous prices for

>> Apple/Mac hardware and software !

>>

>> Of course, it would be nice for MS platforms to be free but, I don't

>> think that's going to happen very soon !

>>

>> All of those, sat there at home, using system boxes built from the

>> wonderfully vast range of IBM PC compatible components, that mostly work

>> wonderfully well with MS Windows platforms in them, and those who shout

>> the loudest in condemnation of Microsoft whilst applauding court actions

>> against them, are simply HYPOCRITS !!!

>>

>> There's always a few that through inexperience, or incompetence, achieve

>> a problematic Windows installation.

>> I suspect that for every single loud mouth shouting abuse at MS and

>> applauding recent court action successes against MS, there are a million

>> unheard people, that quite like MS Windows, and get along just fine with

>> it !

>

> This is all very well, Richard, but let's remember what this story was

> about, shall we?

>

> Microsoft were ordered to do something by a court. They did not do it.

> That's why they were fined.

>

> You can go on as much as you like about how Gates was the saviour of home

> computer, yadda yadda (a moot point), but that doesn't excuse MS' flouting

> of the law.

>

> Put it like this: if, when I was about 11, I'd generously cut the grass

> for an elderly neighbour for free, but then when I was 13 had chucked

> rocks through her windows, does that mean I shouldn't be punished for

> that?

>

> --

> Regards

>

> Nigel Stapley

>

> http://www.judgemental.plus.com

>

> <reply-to will bounce>

February 28, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:09:32 -0800, "bobster" <fauxie@bogus.net>

wrote:

>,;

>,;Right on, Richard. Couldn't agree more. The ABM (anything but MS) crowd is

>,;VERY small, but very vocal. Thank goodness that Larry Ellison or Scott

>,;McNealy aren't running Microsoft!!!

If I were running Microsoft (unfortunately I'm not doing that) I would

tell the EU to start buying Apples because I wouldn't sell any MS

products in the EU until they pulled the plug on these fines. It is my

software and I will sell it where I please and if they don't like the

way it is sold get something else.

I think MS would have the winning hand.

>,;

>,;====================================================

>,;"RJK" <notatospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>,;news:%23rj4eUjeIHA.4464@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>,;IDIOTS !

>,;

>,;Ever stop to think what crap GUI's, if any, for IBM PC compatibles would be

>,;available, were it not for MS backing up their GUI | OS's with the benefit

>,;and power of Microsoft being a multi-billion / global company ?

>,;

>,;...oh, ...did I hear someone say "Linux" ....<ROFL>

>,;..."MAC" ...very few home users can afford, the ludicrous prices for

>,;Apple/Mac hardware and software !

>,;

>,;Of course, it would be nice for MS platforms to be free but, I don't think

>,;that's going to happen very soon !

>,;

>,;All of those, sat there at home, using system boxes built from the

>,;wonderfully vast range of IBM PC compatible components, that mostly work

>,;wonderfully well with MS Windows platforms in them, and those who shout the

>,;loudest in condemnation of Microsoft whilst applauding court actions against

>,;them, are simply HYPOCRITS !!!

>,;

>,;There's always a few that through inexperience, or incompetence, achieve a

>,;problematic Windows installation.

>,;I suspect that for every single loud mouth shouting abuse at MS and

>,;applauding recent court action successes against MS, there are a million

>,;unheard people, that quite like MS Windows, and get along just fine with it

>,;!

>,;

>,;regards, Richard

>,;

>,;"none" <nospam@bogusaddress.com> wrote in message

>,;news:OQ8wWGgeIHA.4056@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>,;>> Their best years are clearly behind them.

>,;>

>,;> AGREED! And whenever I think of Micro$oft now I pinch my nose.

>,;> Of course the sharp minded individual will know GREED is the evil which

>,;> drives MS management and their underhanded schemes!

>,;>

>,;> "98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:47C612FA.50BDD944@Guy.com...

>,;>> Here is what Micro$oft has been up to lately regarding their desire to

>,;>> abide by the rule of law and the respect of the courts.

>,;>>

>,;>> Now explain to me again why we should abide by Macroshaft's EULA's.

>,;>>

>,;>> What a joke - no, what a fraud of a company.

>,;>>

>,;>> Their best years are clearly behind them.

>,;>>

>,;>> --------------------------------------

>,;>>

>,;>> http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/02/microsoft-slapp.html

>,;>>

>,;>> Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

>,;>>

>,;>> By Betsy Schiffman February 27, 2008

>,;>>

>,;>> The European Commission stands to make a tidy profit off Microsoft's

>,;>> objectionable business practices. The commission fined Microsoft a

>,;>> record ?899 million, or $1.35 billion, for failing to comply with its

>,;>> previous 2004 antitrust ruling (in which the company was fined the

>,;>> equivalent of $613 million).

>,;>>

>,;>> The commission found that Microsoft unreasonably charged third-parties

>,;>> for access to documentation that would allow them to develop

>,;>> compatible software for Windows-based computers.

>,;>>

>,;>> Essentially, Microsoft now has to pay more than double what it would

>,;>> have four years ago for its unwillingness to comply with the

>,;>> commission's previous order. Still, for Microsoft it's just the cost

>,;>> of doing business.

>,;>>

>,;>> "The company previously said [the fine] could be as high as $1.5

>,;>> billion, so from that standpoint, it's better than what it could have

>,;>> been," says Sid Parakh, an analyst with McAdams Wright Ragen. "The

>,;>> more important thing going forward are the two remaining cases."

>,;>>

>,;>> An equally important question is how this ruling bodes for the

>,;>> Microsoft-Yahoo deal. If it's taken Google nearly a year to clear its

>,;>> acquisition of DoubleClick with European regulators -- and it hasn't

>,;>> closed yet -- will Microsoft have better luck clearing the Yahoo deal?

>,;>>

>,;>> "The acquisition of Yahoo would certainly be closely looked at --

>,;>> especially at how it will affect the consumer," Parakh says. "But it's

>,;>> hard to say how the commission will respond. At this point, it's fair

>,;>> to say that Google is the big market share leader in search. But you

>,;>> never know what aspect of the deal will be scrutinized by the

>,;>> commission."

>,;>>

>,;>> Other costs for behaving badly:

>,;>>

>,;>> Microsoft agrees to pay Sun Microsystems $700 million to settle an

>,;>> antitrust case, and an additional $900 million to resolve patent

>,;>> issues. (April 2004)

>,;>>

>,;>> Microsoft ordered to pay Eolas $521 million in a patent infringement

>,;>> case related to Internet Explorer. (March 2005)

>,;>>

>,;>> Microsoft agrees to pay IBM $775 million to settle an antitrust case.

>,;>> (July 2005)

>,;>>

>,;>> Microsoft agrees to pay RealNetworks $761 million to settle an

>,;>> antitrust case. (October 2005)

>,;>>

>,;>> Microsoft agrees to pay $179 million to Iowa consumers and businesses

>,;>> in a class-action antitrust case. (February 2007)

>,;>

>,;

February 29, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

"Unknown" <dwilkins@unitelc.com> wrote in message

news:tdhes3tlo5uu6uskijmppnfshcml2p86ai@4ax.com...

| On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:09:32 -0800, "bobster" <fauxie@bogus.net>

| wrote:

|

| >,;

| >,;Right on, Richard. Couldn't agree more. The ABM (anything but MS)

crowd is

| >,;VERY small, but very vocal. Thank goodness that Larry Ellison or

Scott

| >,;McNealy aren't running Microsoft!!!

|

| If I were running Microsoft (unfortunately I'm not doing that) I would

| tell the EU to start buying Apples because I wouldn't sell any MS

| products in the EU until they pulled the plug on these fines. It is my

| software and I will sell it where I please and if they don't like the

| way it is sold get something else.

|

| I think MS would have the winning hand.

|

No, not a smart idea, the world market is moving towards the cheap laptop

PC, perhaps you may have noticed them metioned on the news.. these couple

hundred dollar computers being mass produced for the *poorer* nations ...

with buiilt-in wireless, battery/electric/wind-up generator, shock

protection, and other nifty stuff ...

Those are generally loaded with a Linux variant, or one can use a cut down

Microsoft OS [a battle is being waged for what OS is used]... The *full

blown computer* market is small beans now days with cell phones and other

devices INCLUDING gaming systems [and cars] where growth is occurring

[referring more to the US and european market, other former third world

nations are still expanding computer usage as they become more wealthy and

connect to the Internet]..

Regardless of this ONE ruling, Microsoft has won dozens of others across

the world recently.... and has garnered some significant Patents AND has won

cases allowing it to violate other's US Patents overseas...... this IS, FYI,

what is being referred to and expanded worldwide as *the rule of law* and

corporatism.

A couple billion dollars is a drop in the bucket... after several more

years of Appeals it won't even be remembered [nor likely paid at that

amount]..

Strikingly, Microsoft is suggesting support for open source for its Server

2008...

MEANWHILE, the state [uS] and other nation's prosecutors have been

diligently *borrowing* the hundreds of billions worth of anti-terrorist

software and hardware to track illegal use and piracy [with mainly out of

court settlements or plea agreements] {and part of WHY there is a push for

immunity for the Phone companies and ISPs, it isn't {just} for terrorism

[think DRM]}... best keep up with the world's news...

As for the IBM statement: forget about OS2, Solaris, BeOS, and a couple

others, or was that before your time?

Sources: check the news services and wires..

BTW: if you're using VMware take note that new venerabilities have been

found and are being used.... AND there is a new cell hack which is

apparently difficult or impossible to remove.

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

_________

|

| >,;

| >,;====================================================

| >,;"RJK" <notatospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message

| >,;news:%23rj4eUjeIHA.4464@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

| >,;IDIOTS !

| >,;

| >,;Ever stop to think what crap GUI's, if any, for IBM PC compatibles

would be

| >,;available, were it not for MS backing up their GUI | OS's with the

benefit

| >,;and power of Microsoft being a multi-billion / global company ?

| >,;

| >,;...oh, ...did I hear someone say "Linux" ....<ROFL>

| >,;..."MAC" ...very few home users can afford, the ludicrous prices for

| >,;Apple/Mac hardware and software !

| >,;

| >,;Of course, it would be nice for MS platforms to be free but, I don't

think

| >,;that's going to happen very soon !

| >,;

| >,;All of those, sat there at home, using system boxes built from the

| >,;wonderfully vast range of IBM PC compatible components, that mostly

work

| >,;wonderfully well with MS Windows platforms in them, and those who shout

the

| >,;loudest in condemnation of Microsoft whilst applauding court actions

against

| >,;them, are simply HYPOCRITS !!!

| >,;

| >,;There's always a few that through inexperience, or incompetence,

achieve a

| >,;problematic Windows installation.

| >,;I suspect that for every single loud mouth shouting abuse at MS and

| >,;applauding recent court action successes against MS, there are a

million

| >,;unheard people, that quite like MS Windows, and get along just fine

with it

| >,;!

| >,;

| >,;regards, Richard

| >,;

| >,;"none" <nospam@bogusaddress.com> wrote in message

| >,;news:OQ8wWGgeIHA.4056@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

| >,;>> Their best years are clearly behind them.

| >,;>

| >,;> AGREED! And whenever I think of Micro$oft now I pinch my nose.

| >,;> Of course the sharp minded individual will know GREED is the evil

which

| >,;> drives MS management and their underhanded schemes!

| >,;>

| >,;> "98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message

news:47C612FA.50BDD944@Guy.com...

| >,;>> Here is what Micro$oft has been up to lately regarding their desire

to

| >,;>> abide by the rule of law and the respect of the courts.

| >,;>>

| >,;>> Now explain to me again why we should abide by Macroshaft's EULA's.

| >,;>>

| >,;>> What a joke - no, what a fraud of a company.

| >,;>>

| >,;>> Their best years are clearly behind them.

| >,;>>

| >,;>> --------------------------------------

| >,;>>

| >,;>> http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/02/microsoft-slapp.html

| >,;>>

| >,;>> Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

| >,;>>

| >,;>> By Betsy Schiffman February 27, 2008

| >,;>>

| >,;>> The European Commission stands to make a tidy profit off Microsoft's

| >,;>> objectionable business practices. The commission fined Microsoft a

| >,;>> record ?899 million, or $1.35 billion, for failing to comply with

its

| >,;>> previous 2004 antitrust ruling (in which the company was fined the

| >,;>> equivalent of $613 million).

| >,;>>

| >,;>> The commission found that Microsoft unreasonably charged

third-parties

| >,;>> for access to documentation that would allow them to develop

| >,;>> compatible software for Windows-based computers.

| >,;>>

| >,;>> Essentially, Microsoft now has to pay more than double what it would

| >,;>> have four years ago for its unwillingness to comply with the

| >,;>> commission's previous order. Still, for Microsoft it's just the

cost

| >,;>> of doing business.

| >,;>>

| >,;>> "The company previously said [the fine] could be as high as $1.5

| >,;>> billion, so from that standpoint, it's better than what it could

have

| >,;>> been," says Sid Parakh, an analyst with McAdams Wright Ragen. "The

| >,;>> more important thing going forward are the two remaining cases."

| >,;>>

| >,;>> An equally important question is how this ruling bodes for the

| >,;>> Microsoft-Yahoo deal. If it's taken Google nearly a year to clear

its

| >,;>> acquisition of DoubleClick with European regulators -- and it hasn't

| >,;>> closed yet -- will Microsoft have better luck clearing the Yahoo

deal?

| >,;>>

| >,;>> "The acquisition of Yahoo would certainly be closely looked at --

| >,;>> especially at how it will affect the consumer," Parakh says. "But

it's

| >,;>> hard to say how the commission will respond. At this point, it's

fair

| >,;>> to say that Google is the big market share leader in search. But you

| >,;>> never know what aspect of the deal will be scrutinized by the

| >,;>> commission."

| >,;>>

| >,;>> Other costs for behaving badly:

| >,;>>

| >,;>> Microsoft agrees to pay Sun Microsystems $700 million to settle an

| >,;>> antitrust case, and an additional $900 million to resolve patent

| >,;>> issues. (April 2004)

| >,;>>

| >,;>> Microsoft ordered to pay Eolas $521 million in a patent infringement

| >,;>> case related to Internet Explorer. (March 2005)

| >,;>>

| >,;>> Microsoft agrees to pay IBM $775 million to settle an antitrust

case.

| >,;>> (July 2005)

| >,;>>

| >,;>> Microsoft agrees to pay RealNetworks $761 million to settle an

| >,;>> antitrust case. (October 2005)

| >,;>>

| >,;>> Microsoft agrees to pay $179 million to Iowa consumers and

businesses

| >,;>> in a class-action antitrust case. (February 2007)

| >,;>

| >,;

|

February 29, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

"RJK" <notatospam@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Bill Gates and colleagues ? apparantly bought the "micro" from IBM who

>failed to spot the huge potential in the home market

Not quite. IBM needed an OS for their new, 16-bit microcomputer.

You're right that they didn't really think that this machine would

really go anywhere. That's why they struck the deal they did with

Microsoft: IBM would sell a version of the OS with their machines

which they would call PC-DOS, and Microsoft would be free to sell the

OS under their own name: MS-DOS.

Then the market exploded, and non-IBM manufacturers started making

compatible machines, for which they bought MS-DOS. MS-DOS turned out

to be one of the greatest cash cows ever, and set Microsoft on its

way.

--

Tim Slattery

MS MVP(Shell/User)

Slattery_T@bls.gov

http://members.cox.net/slatteryt

February 29, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

Thanks for reminding me, ...I now remember buying an Amstrad 1512 ...(then

later a 1640 with VGA )!!!, several centuries ago it seems, in 198?, (with

2x51/4" floppy drives and no hard disk, ...later "heaven" was a 10mb hard

disk on an ISA card, ...Seagate I think, and for the same amount of money I

could have bought a small island in the South Pacific ....well almost :-),

and the Amstrad 1512 {8086/8mhz cpu - 640mb ram - I bought the memory

upgrade!}, & dreadful CGA|CRT monitor}, came with two OS's PC-DOS and MSDOS

....v2.1 I think. ....then one tried across the years to keep up, e.g. an

80826 or two, several 80386's | a couple of 80486's ...all those happy

times spent with "Quarterdeck's QEMM" upper memory manager trying to get

everything stuffed, in an optimal fashion, into that little upper memory

space !!! ...and all that tweaking himem.sys|extended memory manager and

emm386.exe|expanded memory manager etc. ..and getting things in the right

order in config.sys and autoexec.bat etc. ...happy days ???

....and eveeeeeeeeentually, Windows, which had mostly been pretty just to

look at now and again but, one stuck with DOS based prog's

{Wordstar/WordPerfect/SuperCalc etc.), for "real" work, for a long time,

.....eventually Windows became usable for serious application programs in

2007 I think !! ...just kidding :-)

regards, Richard

"Tim Slattery" <Slattery_T@bls.gov> wrote in message

news:d82gs3lbqn19105lf5k576l70e36su2scj@4ax.com...

> "RJK" <notatospam@hotmail.com> wrote:

>

>>Bill Gates and colleagues ? apparantly bought the "micro" from IBM who

>>failed to spot the huge potential in the home market

>

> Not quite. IBM needed an OS for their new, 16-bit microcomputer.

> You're right that they didn't really think that this machine would

> really go anywhere. That's why they struck the deal they did with

> Microsoft: IBM would sell a version of the OS with their machines

> which they would call PC-DOS, and Microsoft would be free to sell the

> OS under their own name: MS-DOS.

>

> Then the market exploded, and non-IBM manufacturers started making

> compatible machines, for which they bought MS-DOS. MS-DOS turned out

> to be one of the greatest cash cows ever, and set Microsoft on its

> way.

>

> --

> Tim Slattery

> MS MVP(Shell/User)

> Slattery_T@bls.gov

> http://members.cox.net/slatteryt

February 29, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

The 1640 came with EGA, not VGA. VGA didn't appear until 2 years after the

1640 was released. The 1512 was provided with MS-DOS and DOS Plus (from

Digital Research - later to become DR-DOS). Only IBM machines were sold

with PC-DOS.

--

Jeff Richards

MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)

"RJK" <notatospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:%23o7o8MxeIHA.5400@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Thanks for reminding me, ...I now remember buying an Amstrad 1512 ...(then

> later a 1640 with VGA )!!!, several centuries ago it seems, in 198?, (with

> 2x51/4" floppy drives and no hard disk, ...later "heaven" was a 10mb hard

> disk on an ISA card, ...Seagate I think, and for the same amount of money

> I could have bought a small island in the South Pacific ....well almost

> :-), and the Amstrad 1512 {8086/8mhz cpu - 640mb ram - I bought the memory

> upgrade!}, & dreadful CGA|CRT monitor}, came with two OS's PC-DOS and

> MSDOS ...v2.1 I think. ....

March 1, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

Tim Slattery wrote:

> "RJK" <notatospam@hotmail.com> wrote:

>

>>Bill Gates and colleagues ? apparantly bought the "micro" from IBM who

>>failed to spot the huge potential in the home market

>

> Not quite. IBM needed an OS for their new, 16-bit microcomputer.

> You're right that they didn't really think that this machine would

> really go anywhere. That's why they struck the deal they did with

> Microsoft: IBM would sell a version of the OS with their machines

> which they would call PC-DOS, and Microsoft would be free to sell the

> OS under their own name: MS-DOS.

>

> Then the market exploded, and non-IBM manufacturers started making

> compatible machines, for which they bought MS-DOS. MS-DOS turned out

> to be one of the greatest cash cows ever, and set Microsoft on its

> way.

>

March 1, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

Tim Slattery wrote:

> "RJK" <notatospam@hotmail.com> wrote:

>

>>Bill Gates and colleagues ? apparantly bought the "micro" from IBM who

>>failed to spot the huge potential in the home market

>

> Not quite. IBM needed an OS for their new, 16-bit microcomputer.

> You're right that they didn't really think that this machine would

> really go anywhere. That's why they struck the deal they did with

> Microsoft: IBM would sell a version of the OS with their machines

> which they would call PC-DOS, and Microsoft would be free to sell the

> OS under their own name: MS-DOS.

And Bill Gates was clever enough not to sell the OS to IBM but to

license it instead and collect a fee for every copy sold. Bill Gates

was smart enough to buy the OS or significant parts of it outright from

someone else and resell it under the licensing model!

John

March 1, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

I stand corrected ! ...it was a long time ago :-)

regards, Richard

"Jeff Richards" <JRichards@msn.com.au> wrote in message

news:eZl3a8yeIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> The 1640 came with EGA, not VGA. VGA didn't appear until 2 years after

> the 1640 was released. The 1512 was provided with MS-DOS and DOS Plus

> (from Digital Research - later to become DR-DOS). Only IBM machines were

> sold with PC-DOS.

> --

> Jeff Richards

> MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)

> "RJK" <notatospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> news:%23o7o8MxeIHA.5400@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> Thanks for reminding me, ...I now remember buying an Amstrad 1512

>> ...(then later a 1640 with VGA )!!!, several centuries ago it seems, in

>> 198?, (with 2x51/4" floppy drives and no hard disk, ...later "heaven" was

>> a 10mb hard disk on an ISA card, ...Seagate I think, and for the same

>> amount of money I could have bought a small island in the South Pacific

>> ....well almost :-), and the Amstrad 1512 {8086/8mhz cpu - 640mb ram - I

>> bought the memory upgrade!}, & dreadful CGA|CRT monitor}, came with two

>> OS's PC-DOS and MSDOS ...v2.1 I think. ....

>

March 2, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:48:42 -0500, 98 Guy <98@Guy.com> put finger to

keyboard and composed:

>Here is what Micro$oft has been up to lately regarding their desire to

>abide by the rule of law and the respect of the courts.

>

>Now explain to me again why we should abide by Macroshaft's EULA's.

>

>What a joke - no, what a fraud of a company.

>

>Their best years are clearly behind them.

>

>--------------------------------------

>

>http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/02/microsoft-slapp.html

>

>Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

>

>By Betsy Schiffman February 27, 2008

>

>The European Commission stands to make a tidy profit off Microsoft's

>objectionable business practices. The commission fined Microsoft a

>record €899 million, or $1.35 billion, for failing to comply with its

>previous 2004 antitrust ruling (in which the company was fined the

>equivalent of $613 million).

>

>The commission found that Microsoft unreasonably charged third-parties

>for access to documentation that would allow them to develop

>compatible software for Windows-based computers.

>

>Essentially, Microsoft now has to pay more than double what it would

>have four years ago for its unwillingness to comply with the

>commission's previous order. Still, for Microsoft it's just the cost

>of doing business.

>

>"The company previously said [the fine] could be as high as $1.5

>billion, so from that standpoint, it's better than what it could have

>been," says Sid Parakh, an analyst with McAdams Wright Ragen. "The

>more important thing going forward are the two remaining cases."

>

>An equally important question is how this ruling bodes for the

>Microsoft-Yahoo deal. If it's taken Google nearly a year to clear its

>acquisition of DoubleClick with European regulators -- and it hasn't

>closed yet -- will Microsoft have better luck clearing the Yahoo deal?

>

>"The acquisition of Yahoo would certainly be closely looked at --

>especially at how it will affect the consumer," Parakh says. "But it's

>hard to say how the commission will respond. At this point, it's fair

>to say that Google is the big market share leader in search. But you

>never know what aspect of the deal will be scrutinized by the

>commission."

>

>Other costs for behaving badly:

>

>Microsoft agrees to pay Sun Microsystems $700 million to settle an

>antitrust case, and an additional $900 million to resolve patent

>issues. (April 2004)

>

>Microsoft ordered to pay Eolas $521 million in a patent infringement

>case related to Internet Explorer. (March 2005)

>

>Microsoft agrees to pay IBM $775 million to settle an antitrust case.

>(July 2005)

>

>Microsoft agrees to pay RealNetworks $761 million to settle an

>antitrust case. (October 2005)

>

>Microsoft agrees to pay $179 million to Iowa consumers and businesses

>in a class-action antitrust case. (February 2007)

If the EU governments really want to punish Microsoft, then why don't

they just switch to Linux and Open Office? Why does any bureaucrat

need Windows Vista and MS Office for writing letters or producing the

occasional spreadsheet or presentation? And if the EU are serious

about saving the planet, then they should avoid AMD and Intel and

start using Via's processors.

- Franc Zabkar

--

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

March 2, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

Lawyer's truism:

"Always go for the deep pockets".

They don't come much deeper than Microsoft's.

Corollary:

When asked why he robbed banks, Willie Sutton said, "because that's where

the money is"

=====================================================================

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message

news:4mejs3pjca14ja37bib5ru9sljrvc98spu@4ax.com...

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:48:42 -0500, 98 Guy <98@Guy.com> put finger to

keyboard and composed:

>Here is what Micro$oft has been up to lately regarding their desire to

>abide by the rule of law and the respect of the courts.

>

>Now explain to me again why we should abide by Macroshaft's EULA's.

>

>What a joke - no, what a fraud of a company.

>

>Their best years are clearly behind them.

>

>--------------------------------------

>

>http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/02/microsoft-slapp.html

>

>Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

>

>By Betsy Schiffman February 27, 2008

>

>The European Commission stands to make a tidy profit off Microsoft's

>objectionable business practices. The commission fined Microsoft a

>record ?899 million, or $1.35 billion, for failing to comply with its

>previous 2004 antitrust ruling (in which the company was fined the

>equivalent of $613 million).

>

>The commission found that Microsoft unreasonably charged third-parties

>for access to documentation that would allow them to develop

>compatible software for Windows-based computers.

>

>Essentially, Microsoft now has to pay more than double what it would

>have four years ago for its unwillingness to comply with the

>commission's previous order. Still, for Microsoft it's just the cost

>of doing business.

>

>"The company previously said [the fine] could be as high as $1.5

>billion, so from that standpoint, it's better than what it could have

>been," says Sid Parakh, an analyst with McAdams Wright Ragen. "The

>more important thing going forward are the two remaining cases."

>

>An equally important question is how this ruling bodes for the

>Microsoft-Yahoo deal. If it's taken Google nearly a year to clear its

>acquisition of DoubleClick with European regulators -- and it hasn't

>closed yet -- will Microsoft have better luck clearing the Yahoo deal?

>

>"The acquisition of Yahoo would certainly be closely looked at --

>especially at how it will affect the consumer," Parakh says. "But it's

>hard to say how the commission will respond. At this point, it's fair

>to say that Google is the big market share leader in search. But you

>never know what aspect of the deal will be scrutinized by the

>commission."

>

>Other costs for behaving badly:

>

>Microsoft agrees to pay Sun Microsystems $700 million to settle an

>antitrust case, and an additional $900 million to resolve patent

>issues. (April 2004)

>

>Microsoft ordered to pay Eolas $521 million in a patent infringement

>case related to Internet Explorer. (March 2005)

>

>Microsoft agrees to pay IBM $775 million to settle an antitrust case.

>(July 2005)

>

>Microsoft agrees to pay RealNetworks $761 million to settle an

>antitrust case. (October 2005)

>

>Microsoft agrees to pay $179 million to Iowa consumers and businesses

>in a class-action antitrust case. (February 2007)

If the EU governments really want to punish Microsoft, then why don't

they just switch to Linux and Open Office? Why does any bureaucrat

need Windows Vista and MS Office for writing letters or producing the

occasional spreadsheet or presentation? And if the EU are serious

about saving the planet, then they should avoid AMD and Intel and

start using Via's processors.

- Franc Zabkar

--

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

March 2, 2008

Re: Microsoft Slapped by EU With $1.35B Fine

LOL! Haven't heard such loud whining in quite a while.

Believe me, if MS had "stolen" the GUI from Apple, Apple would be a lot

richer than it is now... And the lack of putting together IBM's PCDOS with

Apple's GUI would mean we'd have a Choice between really difficult to use

(IBM) or really expensive to use (Apple.) IBM never believed in the PC and

never bothered to try to make it work. Instead they gave PCDOS to Microsoft

for FREE.

Apple's lawsuit was ridiculous (as shown by the results). Basically, they

wanted intellectual rights to ANYTHING that was called or even resembled a

GUI. The judge was right to limit Apple's winnings to the trademark on that

stupid trash can.

--

Gary S. Terhune

MS-MVP Shell/User

http://www.grystmill.com

"Planer" <noone@nowherenohow.com> wrote in message

news:yZExj.132$Fs5.108@bignews2.bellsouth.net...

> RJK wrote:

>> IDIOTS !

>>

>> Ever stop to think what crap GUI's, if any, for IBM PC compatibles would

>> be available, were it not for MS backing up their GUI | OS's with the

>> benefit and power of Microsoft being a multi-billion / global company ?

>>

>

> Ever stop to think what might be if Bill Gates hadn't stolen the GUI from

> Apple?

> Guess we'd be kow-towing to Apple instead of Microsoft. No matter, we'd

> still

> be getting it stuck to us, regardless.

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