Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

March 5, 2008

The start of this new Post regarding the ‘Computer Failure’ Post was

suggested by “MEB”, and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was creating

some confusion.

As was discussed in the ‘Computer Failure’ Post, the Microtime Computer,

that I have been using for several years, has failed and I find it rather

difficult to get it operational, again. There is a Primary Master and a

Secondary Master HD’s installed in it. There are folders in both that have

Data that I would like to recover. A more recent Computer, a Sony VAIO,

that I am currently using, appears to have all that I would need to connect

those HD’s and recover the desired Data and back up the same, if desired,

on CD’s or Iomega Zip 250 MB Disks. The only obstacle is of possible

compatibility issues.

Some of what follows has been mentioned in various replies in the prior

Post. Some new information has been added, since.

In the Sony there is no Secondary Master, although the Primary Master has

two partitions, as “MEB” indicated and as shown by the System Information

pane of the Components/Storage Disks:

IDE Type 47, Partitions 2 total 57..27GB.

Disk 0, Partition 0, 15.63GB (shown as Local Disk C: in ‘My Computer’})

Disk 0, Partition 1, 41.64GB (shown as Local Disk D:)

Additionally, although not sure if it might be relevant, the following was

also obtained.from the System Information panes (thru

Start>Accessories>System Information):

OS: Microsoft Windows, Version 4-90-3000 Build 3000

System Name: VAIO (Sony Corp)

System Model: PCV-RX370DS(UC)

System Type: X86 based PC

Processor: Intel® Pentium® 4 CPU 1300MHz GenuineIntel 1296Mhz

Bios Version: Award Medallion BIOS v6.0

Total Physical Memory: 127.43 MB

Available Physical Memory: 2.07 MB

Total Virtual Memory: 2.0 GB

Available Virtual Memory: 1.77 GB

Page File Space: 1.88 GB

On the Disks pane:

Description: GENERIC IDE DISK TYPE47

Manufacturer: (Standard disk drives)

Model: IDE DISK TYPE47

Media Loaded: Yes

Media Type: Fixed hard disk media

Partitions: 2

Size: 57.27 GB

Partition: Disk #0, Partition #0

Partition Size: 15.63 GB

Partition: Disk #0, Partition #1

Partition Size: 41.64 GB

The IRQ Pane listed several. The ones related to the IDE’s (to my thinking)

are:

IRQ 3 shows 3 times. One is for Intel 82801 BA/BAM SMBus Controller - 2443

IRQ 9 shows 10 times. Two of them pertain to the USB Ports:

- Intel 82801 BA/BAM USB Universal Host Controller #1

- Intel 82801 BA/BAM USB Universal Host Controller #2

IRQ 14 - Intel 82801 BA ULTRA ATA Storage Controller

- Primary IDE Controller (Dual FIFO)

IRQ 15 - Intel 82801 BA ULTRA ATA Storage Controller

- Secondary IDE Controller (Dual FIFO)

System, arrived at thru Start>Settings>Control Panel, shows this (In brief):

MS Windows ME 4.90.3000

Mfd and Supported by Sony Electr. Inc. - V32B5.0.0/ENV

Genuine Intel - Intel[R] Pentium[R] 4 CPU - 128 MB RAM

From the Device Manager Display:

CD_ROM:

- Pioneer DVD -ROM DVD-115R

- Sony CD-RW CRX140E

DISK DRIVE:

- Generic IDE Disk Type47

- Generic Floppy Disk

- Iomega Zip 250

HD Controllers:

- Intel 82801BA Ultra ATA Storage Controller

- Primary IDE Controller (Dual FIFO)

- Secondary IDE Controller (Dual FIFO)

While the Sony is booting, this appears:

Diskette A: 1.44, 3.5 in.

Diskette B: None

Primary Master 61492 GB, UDMA 5

Primary Slave: None

Secondary Master: CD_ROM, UDMA 2

Secondary Slave: CD_ROM. UDMA 2

and

Serial Port: 3F8

Parallel Port: 378

Dram Type: RDRAM

SPD on Modules: Yes

Data Integrity: NON-ECC

Looking at the jumper selection area of the Sony’s HD. I see 2 rows of

pins. There is a jumper on the leftmost pair of pins (top & bottom) closest

to the Cable connection and another jumper between the top&bottom pins at the

opposite end, or the end closest to the power cable.

The storage HD from the failed Computer has similar layout, but the only

jumper is at the last top 2 pins closest to the power cable. Again, I assume

that it might be OK to connect this HD on the freed up connector of the Sony.

As mentioned, the HD, referred by me as Storage HD, had been configured as a

Primary Slave in the Computer that had failed.

I allowed my curiosity to see if, by connecting the existing Primary Master

HD to the end connector of the cable, I might cause any problem. All went

well. I was further tempted to connect the storage HD from the failed

Computer, but I did not, hoping to first get your ideas about doing so.

The label on the storage HD shows its ID as:

IBM OE - Model: DTTA-351010 E182115 HG

P/N: 00K4091 10.1GB - MLC: F02573

CHS: 16383/16/63

LBA: 19.807.200 Sectors

Hopefully, this will mean something to you, “MEB” or anyone else able to help.

Thank you in advance for any reply!

March 5, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

"BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:1A8A6A60-BABD-4A6F-BF4C-EA33D7E79643@microsoft.com...

> As was discussed in the 'Computer Failure' Post, the Microtime Computer,

> that I have been using for several years, has failed and I find it rather

> difficult to get it operational, again. There is a Primary Master and a

> Secondary Master HD's installed in it. There are folders in both that have

> Data that I would like to recover. A more recent Computer, a Sony VAIO,

> that I am currently using, appears to have all that I would need to

connect

> those HD's and recover the desired Data and back up the same, if desired,

> on CD's or Iomega Zip 250 MB Disks. The only obstacle is of possible

> compatibility issues.

"Compatibility" of various types of Operating System

almost never affects data.

If the Microtime boots and has an Ethernet card, your

fastest solution would be to join it to the Sony with

an Ethernet cable, and copy data to the Sony.

If not, connect the Microtime drives to the Sony as

IDE drives (one by one) and copy the data over.

--

Don Phillipson

Carlsbad Springs

(Ottawa, Canada)

March 5, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

BAP wrote:

You are making what you want to do just WAAAYY harder than it is. All

you need do is remove a drive from the old computer, put it in the new

computer, boot and then copy the files you want.

The only thing that makes a drive "master", slave", or "cable select"

is the position of the jumper on the back of the drive. Different

manufacturers may have different positions for the same thing but

there is normally a self explanatory diagram on the back of the drive;

if not, you can determine the correct jumper position for whatever at

the manufacturer's site.

When putting old drive in new machine you can either hook it to the

primary IDE cable or the secondary one. If to the primary, you would

want old drive jumpered as slave as the new, existing drive is master.

If you hook it to the secondary channel, it can be either master or

slave. If it were me, I'd make it master after unhooking any CD/DVD

drives from that channel.

--

dadiOH

____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...

....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from

LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.

Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

March 5, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

"BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:1A8A6A60-BABD-4A6F-BF4C-EA33D7E79643@microsoft.com...

| The start of this new Post regarding the 'Computer Failure' Post was

| suggested by "MEB", and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was creating

| some confusion.

|

| As was discussed in the 'Computer Failure' Post, the Microtime Computer,

| that I have been using for several years, has failed and I find it rather

| difficult to get it operational, again. There is a Primary Master and a

| Secondary Master HD's installed in it. There are folders in both that have

| Data that I would like to recover. A more recent Computer, a Sony VAIO,

| that I am currently using, appears to have all that I would need to

connect

| those HD's and recover the desired Data and back up the same, if desired,

| on CD's or Iomega Zip 250 MB Disks. The only obstacle is of possible

| compatibility issues.

|

| Some of what follows has been mentioned in various replies in the prior

| Post. Some new information has been added, since.

|

| In the Sony there is no Secondary Master, although the Primary Master has

| two partitions, as "MEB" indicated and as shown by the System Information

| pane of the Components/Storage Disks:

| IDE Type 47, Partitions 2 total 57..27GB.

| Disk 0, Partition 0, 15.63GB (shown as Local Disk C: in 'My Computer'})

| Disk 0, Partition 1, 41.64GB (shown as Local Disk D:)

|

| Additionally, although not sure if it might be relevant, the following was

| also obtained.from the System Information panes (thru

| Start>Accessories>System Information):

| OS: Microsoft Windows, Version 4-90-3000 Build 3000

| System Name: VAIO (Sony Corp)

| System Model: PCV-RX370DS(UC)

| System Type: X86 based PC

| Processor: Intel® Pentium® 4 CPU 1300MHz GenuineIntel 1296Mhz

| Bios Version: Award Medallion BIOS v6.0

| Total Physical Memory: 127.43 MB

| Available Physical Memory: 2.07 MB

| Total Virtual Memory: 2.0 GB

| Available Virtual Memory: 1.77 GB

| Page File Space: 1.88 GB

|

| On the Disks pane:

| Description: GENERIC IDE DISK TYPE47

| Manufacturer: (Standard disk drives)

| Model: IDE DISK TYPE47

| Media Loaded: Yes

| Media Type: Fixed hard disk media

| Partitions: 2

| Size: 57.27 GB

| Partition: Disk #0, Partition #0

| Partition Size: 15.63 GB

| Partition: Disk #0, Partition #1

| Partition Size: 41.64 GB

|

| The IRQ Pane listed several. The ones related to the IDE's (to my

thinking)

| are:

| IRQ 3 shows 3 times. One is for Intel 82801 BA/BAM SMBus Controller - 2443

| IRQ 9 shows 10 times. Two of them pertain to the USB Ports:

| - Intel 82801 BA/BAM USB Universal Host Controller #1

| - Intel 82801 BA/BAM USB Universal Host Controller #2

| IRQ 14 - Intel 82801 BA ULTRA ATA Storage Controller

| - Primary IDE Controller (Dual FIFO)

| IRQ 15 - Intel 82801 BA ULTRA ATA Storage Controller

| - Secondary IDE Controller (Dual FIFO)

|

| System, arrived at thru Start>Settings>Control Panel, shows this (In

brief):

| MS Windows ME 4.90.3000

| Mfd and Supported by Sony Electr. Inc. - V32B5.0.0/ENV

| Genuine Intel - Intel[R] Pentium[R] 4 CPU - 128 MB RAM

|

| From the Device Manager Display:

| CD_ROM:

| - Pioneer DVD -ROM DVD-115R

| - Sony CD-RW CRX140E

|

| DISK DRIVE:

| - Generic IDE Disk Type47

| - Generic Floppy Disk

| - Iomega Zip 250

|

| HD Controllers:

| - Intel 82801BA Ultra ATA Storage Controller

| - Primary IDE Controller (Dual FIFO)

| - Secondary IDE Controller (Dual FIFO)

|

| While the Sony is booting, this appears:

| Diskette A: 1.44, 3.5 in.

| Diskette B: None

| Primary Master 61492 GB, UDMA 5

| Primary Slave: None

| Secondary Master: CD_ROM, UDMA 2

| Secondary Slave: CD_ROM. UDMA 2

| and

| Serial Port: 3F8

| Parallel Port: 378

| Dram Type: RDRAM

| SPD on Modules: Yes

| Data Integrity: NON-ECC

|

| Looking at the jumper selection area of the Sony's HD. I see 2 rows of

| pins. There is a jumper on the leftmost pair of pins (top & bottom) closes

t

| to the Cable connection and another jumper between the top&bottom pins at

the

| opposite end, or the end closest to the power cable.

| The storage HD from the failed Computer has similar layout, but the only

| jumper is at the last top 2 pins closest to the power cable. Again, I

assume

| that it might be OK to connect this HD on the freed up connector of the

Sony.

| As mentioned, the HD, referred by me as Storage HD, had been configured

as a

| Primary Slave in the Computer that had failed.

| I allowed my curiosity to see if, by connecting the existing Primary

Master

| HD to the end connector of the cable, I might cause any problem. All went

| well. I was further tempted to connect the storage HD from the failed

| Computer, but I did not, hoping to first get your ideas about doing so.

| The label on the storage HD shows its ID as:

| IBM OE - Model: DTTA-351010 E182115 HG

| P/N: 00K4091 10.1GB - MLC: F02573

| CHS: 16383/16/63

| LBA: 19.807.200 Sectors

|

| Hopefully, this will mean something to you, "MEB" or anyone else able to

help.

| Thank you in advance for any reply!

One issue you failed to mention, which may or will be an issue, is that the

other target drive [OS disk} had to be started in the other system by using

a boot disk or other work around. But we can work from this {BTW, good

information to work from, thanks}. I had also created a new posting for your

VAIO attempt, which outlines what had been found to that point * Sony

VAIO - WinME - hard drive usage and data recovery *. But we can work from

here with this new information, as long as everyone reviews the other

postings as well so redundant suggestions aren't provided.

I also created two new posts for your other computers:

Risys running Win31 - 98SE disk recovery

Microtime - Win98SE - computer diagnostics and repair

There is a small program which might provide some useful information

provided by MiTeC:

http://www.mitec.cz/Downloads/msi.zip - 782K - system information - goto

Storage > Physical Devices for drive identification

http://www.mitec.cz/ - main page with tools

You can likely go ahead and try to connect the DATA drive to the VAIO as it

may already configured as SLAVE *IF* it was on the same cable as the

other/OS drive in the Microtime. Some info here:

http://support.gateway.com/support/manlib/cmponts/harddriv/8505896/05896.htm

If the drive works, pull the data off.

Checking for that drive shows it is actually a Hitachi drive DeskStar 16GP:

http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/products/Deskstar_16GP

Check those Hitachi jumpers!

You can also try the drive fitness test, but do use no destructive tests

until you recover the data:

http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT

http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/downloads/dft32_v412_b01.EXE Windows

creator, or

http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/downloads/dft32_v412_b01_install.IMG - if

you already have a diskette program like WinImage installed

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

_________

March 6, 2008

Re: Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

"BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:1A8A6A60-BABD-4A6F-BF4C-EA33D7E79643@microsoft.com...

> The start of this new Post regarding the ‘Computer Failure’ Post was

> suggested by “MEB”, and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was creating

> some confusion.

> <massive snip>

> System Name: VAIO (Sony Corp)

> System Model: PCV-RX370DS(UC)

> System Type: X86 based PC

> Processor: Intel® Pentium® 4 CPU 1300MHz GenuineIntel 1296Mhz

> Bios Version: Award Medallion BIOS v6.0

> <snip>

> The label on the storage HD shows its ID as:

> IBM OE - Model: DTTA-351010 E182115 HG

Deskstar 16GP Jumper settings

http://hgst.com/hdd/support/dtta6/dtta6jum.htm

You should most likely use the four pictures under the heading "16 Logical Head" to

determine the jumper setting you want.

If you are slaving the drive to the Sony's drive, on the same IDE cable, and the

Sony's drive is set as Master, then set the added drive as "Device 1 (Slave)"

If the Sony's drive is set as "Cable Select", then set the added drive the same way.

You need to identify the Sony's hard drive manufacturer to tell what the jumpers are

currently set at, unless you can see the jumper settings on the drive label on the

face of the drive.

EVEREST Free Edition:

http://www.majorgeeks.com/EVEREST_Free_Edition_d4181.html

Run Everest, select Storage> Physical drives, on the left, and find the

manufacturers of your installed hard drives.

--

Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+

http://dts-l.net/

http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

March 7, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

"Don Phillipson" wrote:

> "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:1A8A6A60-BABD-4A6F-BF4C-EA33D7E79643@microsoft.com...

>

> > As was discussed in the 'Computer Failure' Post, the Microtime Computer,

> > that I have been using for several years, has failed and I find it rather

> > difficult to get it operational, again. There is a Primary Master and a

> > Secondary Master HD's installed in it. There are folders in both that have

> > Data that I would like to recover. A more recent Computer, a Sony VAIO,

> > that I am currently using, appears to have all that I would need to

> connect

> > those HD's and recover the desired Data and back up the same, if desired,

> > on CD's or Iomega Zip 250 MB Disks. The only obstacle is of possible

> > compatibility issues.

>

> "Compatibility" of various types of Operating System

> almost never affects data.

>

> If the Microtime boots and has an Ethernet card, your

> fastest solution would be to join it to the Sony with

> an Ethernet cable, and copy data to the Sony.

>

****

Don, when problems started showing up, the Microtime Computer would boot up

with some difficulties, but, if it did, it would not detect the CD_ROM or

the internal Iomega 250 MB Zip Drive. Not long after, it has began to refuse

to continue booting claiming that it does not see a Keyboard or that it is

locked. I tried a different working Keyboard, but no-go. There is a KeySet,

but no Key for me to use.

“MEB” suggested to unplug its wires from the motherboard. Still no-go. I

tried, on my own, to short out the contacts at the motherboard, but still

no-go.

Cleaning the area where the Keyboard is plugged in did not make any

difference.

The Sony does have an Ethernet card/connector. If the Microtime were

booting, where would you connect the cable on it?

Thanks for your reply!

***

> If not, connect the Microtime drives to the Sony as

> IDE drives (one by one) and copy the data over.

>

> --

> Don Phillipson

> Carlsbad Springs

> (Ottawa, Canada)

>

March 7, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

"dadiOH" wrote:

> BAP wrote:

>

> <snip all>

>

> You are making what you want to do just WAAAYY harder than it is. All

> you need do is remove a drive from the old computer, put it in the new

> computer, boot and then copy the files you want.

>

> The only thing that makes a drive "master", slave", or "cable select"

> is the position of the jumper on the back of the drive. Different

> manufacturers may have different positions for the same thing but

> there is normally a self explanatory diagram on the back of the drive;

> if not, you can determine the correct jumper position for whatever at

> the manufacturer's site.

>

> When putting old drive in new machine you can either hook it to the

> primary IDE cable or the secondary one. If to the primary, you would

> want old drive jumpered as slave as the new, existing drive is master.

> If you hook it to the secondary channel, it can be either master or

> slave. If it were me, I'd make it master after unhooking any CD/DVD

> drives from that channel.

>

****

dadiOH, I follow your comments about the primary cable. Initially, the

Sony’s Primary Master, was connected to the first connector on the cable, not

on the end connector. I connected it to the end connector and left it there,

as my move did not cause any problem. The other connector is now freed-up for

the HD (Primary Slave) of the failed Computer.

I am not quite clear about the one you are referring as the secondary cable.

It sounds that it is the one to which the CD_Rom and the DVD are connected.

Are you suggesting for me to remove the CD or the DVD or both and hook to

that cable either the Microtime’s primary Master or the Primary Slave

without having to worry about their configuration....Master or Slave?

Thanks, for your reply!

(See my reply to "MEB" with today's Date)

>

> --

>

> dadiOH

> ____________________________

>

> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...

> ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from

> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.

> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

>

March 7, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

"dadiOH" wrote:

> BAP wrote:

>

> <snip all>

>

> You are making what you want to do just WAAAYY harder than it is. All

> you need do is remove a drive from the old computer, put it in the new

> computer, boot and then copy the files you want.

>

> The only thing that makes a drive "master", slave", or "cable select"

> is the position of the jumper on the back of the drive. Different

> manufacturers may have different positions for the same thing but

> there is normally a self explanatory diagram on the back of the drive;

> if not, you can determine the correct jumper position for whatever at

> the manufacturer's site.

>

> When putting old drive in new machine you can either hook it to the

> primary IDE cable or the secondary one. If to the primary, you would

> want old drive jumpered as slave as the new, existing drive is master.

> If you hook it to the secondary channel, it can be either master or

> slave. If it were me, I'd make it master after unhooking any CD/DVD

> drives from that channel.

****

dadiOH, I follow your comments about the primary cable. Initially, the

Sony’s Primary Master, was connected to the first connector on the cable, not

on the end connector. I connected it to the end connector and left it there,

as my move did not cause any problem. The other connector is now freed-up for

the HD (Primary Slave) of the failed Computer.

I am not quite clear about the one you are referring as the secondary cable.

It sounds that it is the one to which the CD_Rom and the DVD are connected..

Are you suggesting for me to remove the CD or the DVD or both and hook to

that cable either the Microtime’s primary Master or the Primary Slave

without having to worry about their configuration....Master or Slave?

Thanks, for your reply!

(See my reply to "MEB" with today's date)

>

> --

>

> dadiOH

> ____________________________

>

> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...

> ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from

> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.

> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

>

March 7, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

"MEB" wrote:

>

> "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:1A8A6A60-BABD-4A6F-BF4C-EA33D7E79643@microsoft.com...

> | The start of this new Post regarding the 'Computer Failure' Post was

> | suggested by "MEB", and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was creating

> | some confusion.

> |

> | As was discussed in the 'Computer Failure' Post, the Microtime Computer,

> | that I have been using for several years, has failed and I find it rather

> | difficult to get it operational, again. There is a Primary Master and a

> | Secondary Master HD's installed in it. There are folders in both that have

> | Data that I would like to recover. A more recent Computer, a Sony VAIO,

> | that I am currently using, appears to have all that I would need to

> connect

> | those HD's and recover the desired Data and back up the same, if desired,

> | on CD's or Iomega Zip 250 MB Disks. The only obstacle is of possible

> | compatibility issues.

> |

> | Some of what follows has been mentioned in various replies in the prior

> | Post. Some new information has been added, since.

> |

> | In the Sony there is no Secondary Master, although the Primary Master has

> | two partitions, as "MEB" indicated and as shown by the System Information

> | pane of the Components/Storage Disks:

> | IDE Type 47, Partitions 2 total 57..27GB.

> | Disk 0, Partition 0, 15.63GB (shown as Local Disk C: in 'My Computer'})

> | Disk 0, Partition 1, 41.64GB (shown as Local Disk D:)

> |

> | Additionally, although not sure if it might be relevant, the following was

> | also obtained.from the System Information panes (thru

> | Start>Accessories>System Information):

> | OS: Microsoft Windows, Version 4-90-3000 Build 3000

> | System Name: VAIO (Sony Corp)

> | System Model: PCV-RX370DS(UC)

> | System Type: X86 based PC

> | Processor: Intel® Pentium® 4 CPU 1300MHz GenuineIntel 1296Mhz

> | Bios Version: Award Medallion BIOS v6.0

> | Total Physical Memory: 127.43 MB

> | Available Physical Memory: 2.07 MB

> | Total Virtual Memory: 2.0 GB

> | Available Virtual Memory: 1.77 GB

> | Page File Space: 1.88 GB

> |

> | On the Disks pane:

> | Description: GENERIC IDE DISK TYPE47

> | Manufacturer: (Standard disk drives)

> | Model: IDE DISK TYPE47

> | Media Loaded: Yes

> | Media Type: Fixed hard disk media

> | Partitions: 2

> | Size: 57.27 GB

> | Partition: Disk #0, Partition #0

> | Partition Size: 15.63 GB

> | Partition: Disk #0, Partition #1

> | Partition Size: 41.64 GB

> |

> | The IRQ Pane listed several. The ones related to the IDE's (to my

> thinking)

> | are:

> | IRQ 3 shows 3 times. One is for Intel 82801 BA/BAM SMBus Controller - 2443

> | IRQ 9 shows 10 times. Two of them pertain to the USB Ports:

> | - Intel 82801 BA/BAM USB Universal Host Controller #1

> | - Intel 82801 BA/BAM USB Universal Host Controller #2

> | IRQ 14 - Intel 82801 BA ULTRA ATA Storage Controller

> | - Primary IDE Controller (Dual FIFO)

> | IRQ 15 - Intel 82801 BA ULTRA ATA Storage Controller

> | - Secondary IDE Controller (Dual FIFO)

> |

> | System, arrived at thru Start>Settings>Control Panel, shows this (In

> brief):

> | MS Windows ME 4.90.3000

> | Mfd and Supported by Sony Electr. Inc. - V32B5.0.0/ENV

> | Genuine Intel - Intel[R] Pentium[R] 4 CPU - 128 MB RAM

> |

> | From the Device Manager Display:

> | CD_ROM:

> | - Pioneer DVD -ROM DVD-115R

> | - Sony CD-RW CRX140E

> |

> | DISK DRIVE:

> | - Generic IDE Disk Type47

> | - Generic Floppy Disk

> | - Iomega Zip 250

> |

> | HD Controllers:

> | - Intel 82801BA Ultra ATA Storage Controller

> | - Primary IDE Controller (Dual FIFO)

> | - Secondary IDE Controller (Dual FIFO)

> |

> | While the Sony is booting, this appears:

> | Diskette A: 1.44, 3.5 in.

> | Diskette B: None

> | Primary Master 61492 GB, UDMA 5

> | Primary Slave: None

> | Secondary Master: CD_ROM, UDMA 2

> | Secondary Slave: CD_ROM. UDMA 2

> | and

> | Serial Port: 3F8

> | Parallel Port: 378

> | Dram Type: RDRAM

> | SPD on Modules: Yes

> | Data Integrity: NON-ECC

> |

> | Looking at the jumper selection area of the Sony's HD. I see 2 rows of

> | pins. There is a jumper on the leftmost pair of pins (top & bottom) closes

> t

> | to the Cable connection and another jumper between the top&bottom pins at

> the

> | opposite end, or the end closest to the power cable.

> | The storage HD from the failed Computer has similar layout, but the only

> | jumper is at the last top 2 pins closest to the power cable. Again, I

> assume

> | that it might be OK to connect this HD on the freed up connector of the

> Sony.

> | As mentioned, the HD, referred by me as Storage HD, had been configured

> as a

> | Primary Slave in the Computer that had failed.

> | I allowed my curiosity to see if, by connecting the existing Primary

> Master

> | HD to the end connector of the cable, I might cause any problem. All went

> | well. I was further tempted to connect the storage HD from the failed

> | Computer, but I did not, hoping to first get your ideas about doing so.

> | The label on the storage HD shows its ID as:

> | IBM OE - Model: DTTA-351010 E182115 HG

> | P/N: 00K4091 10.1GB - MLC: F02573

> | CHS: 16383/16/63

> | LBA: 19.807.200 Sectors

> |

> | Hopefully, this will mean something to you, "MEB" or anyone else able to

> help.

> | Thank you in advance for any reply!

>

> One issue you failed to mention, which may or will be an issue, is that the

> other target drive [OS disk} had to be started in the other system by using

> a boot disk or other work around.

****

“MEB”, that was not the case. Early on, there was nothing wrong with the

booting cycle, unless I

needed or wanted to start with a Boot Disk. If I did that and inserted the

Boot Disk before

starting the booting cycle, at the Dos Prompt I would find myself in the

Primary Slave HD. The

Master HD would not be available. This surfaced when I replaced the original

HD, 10 GB in size,

with a Maxtor with 40 GB. The MAX-BLAST software, that came with the Maxtor

HD, created

an overlay. As mentioned, in a rather old post, few years back, in order

to boot from a Boot

Disk properly, I had to break the progress of booting with a CTRL Key and

opt to boot from the

Boot Disk that had to be inserted at that time.

***

But we can work from this {BTW, good

> information to work from, thanks}. I had also created a new posting for your

> VAIO attempt, which outlines what had been found to that point * Sony

> VAIO - WinME - hard drive usage and data recovery *. But we can work from

> here with this new information, as long as everyone reviews the other

> postings as well so redundant suggestions aren't provided.

>

> I also created two new posts for your other computers:

> Risys running Win31 - 98SE disk recovery

> Microtime - Win98SE - computer diagnostics and repair

>

> There is a small program which might provide some useful information

> provided by MiTeC:

> http://www.mitec.cz/Downloads/msi.zip - 782K - system information - goto

> Storage > Physical Devices for drive identification

> http://www.mitec.cz/ - main page with tools

>

> You can likely go ahead and try to connect the DATA drive to the VAIO as it

> may already configured as SLAVE *IF* it was on the same cable as the

> other/OS drive in the Microtime. Some info here:

> http://support.gateway.com/support/manlib/cmponts/harddriv/8505896/05896.htm

>

> If the drive works, pull the data off.

>

****

“MEB”, I did that and it worked, although the there was some confusion

about the ID of the Disks shown by ‘My Computer’. Normally, Disk C: is the

Partition 0 of the Primary Master - D: Partition 1 - E: DVD - F: CD_ROM - G:

Zip Drive.

With the Microtime Primary Slave in place, C: was still Sony’s HD Primary

Master Partition 0 - D: the Microtime’s Disk - E: Partition 1 of Sony - G:

was showing as the ZIP disk. However, if I inserted a CD in the CD_ROM drive,

G became the CD_ROM Disk - F:, showing as removable Disk, was, in effect,

the ZIP Drive.

No matter, ‘though, as I was able to copy the contents of the Microtime’s

Primary Slave HD.

All my steps taken, to configure the Microtime’s Primary Master and make it

a Slave, did not succeed. The configuration shown on the HD about the jumper

positions did not work. However, the system detected that HD as a Primary

Slave.

This was shown: (besides other info)

Primary Master Disk: 61492 MB UDMA 5

Orimary Slave Disk: 30750 MB UDMA 5

Secondary Master Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

Secondary Slave Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

Without the Microtime's HD connected, this was shown:

Primary Master Disk: 61492 MB UDMA 5

Orimary Slave Disk: None

Secondary Master Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

Secondary Slave Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

It was bothersome to see that the size of the Microtime's HD did not appear

to have the size that I thought it should have. I will check further into

that.

At any rate, 'My Computer' did not show this HD in the list of Disk Drives.

I wish there would be a way, but, I am glad that most of my data has been

recovered.

Thank you for all the suggestions.

***

> Checking for that drive shows it is actually a Hitachi drive DeskStar 16GP:

> http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/products/Deskstar_16GP

> Check those Hitachi jumpers!

>

> You can also try the drive fitness test, but do use no destructive tests

> until you recover the data:

> http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT

> http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/downloads/dft32_v412_b01.EXE Windows

> creator, or

> http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/downloads/dft32_v412_b01_install.IMG - if

> you already have a diskette program like WinImage installed

>

> --

>

> MEB

> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

> _________

>

March 7, 2008

Re: Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Glee, Everest’s Storage does not appear to have a category named ‘Physical

Drivers’. It shows Logical, Optical Drives, ASPI, ATA and SMART.

The latter two are blanks.

Logical Drives:

A: Removable Disk

C: Local Disk FAT32

15970 MB 4289 MB 11681

MB 73 % 0659-12EF

D: Local Disk FAT32

42599 MB 163 MB 42435

MB 100 % 1D0B-3241

E: Optical Drive

F: Optical Drive

G: Removable Disk

ASPI

00 00 00 Optical Drive PIONEER DVD-ROM DVD-115R 1.25

2000/08/21PIONEER

00 01 00 Optical Drive SONY CD-RW CRX140E 1.1b

Dec11 ,2000

00 07 00 Host Adapter ESDI_506 USBMPH

01 00 00 Disk Drive IOMEGA ZIP 250 27.P

06/28/02

01 07 00 Host Adapter USBMPHLP

Thank you, for the reply!

(See my reply to "MEB" with today's date for more info)

******

"glee" wrote:

> "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:1A8A6A60-BABD-4A6F-BF4C-EA33D7E79643@microsoft.com...

> > The start of this new Post regarding the ‘Computer Failure’ Post was

> > suggested by “MEB”, and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was creating

> > some confusion.

> > <massive snip>

> > System Name: VAIO (Sony Corp)

> > System Model: PCV-RX370DS(UC)

> > System Type: X86 based PC

> > Processor: Intel® Pentium® 4 CPU 1300MHz GenuineIntel 1296Mhz

> > Bios Version: Award Medallion BIOS v6.0

> > <snip>

> > The label on the storage HD shows its ID as:

> > IBM OE - Model: DTTA-351010 E182115 HG

>

> Deskstar 16GP Jumper settings

> http://hgst.com/hdd/support/dtta6/dtta6jum.htm

>

> You should most likely use the four pictures under the heading "16 Logical Head" to

> determine the jumper setting you want.

>

> If you are slaving the drive to the Sony's drive, on the same IDE cable, and the

> Sony's drive is set as Master, then set the added drive as "Device 1 (Slave)"

>

> If the Sony's drive is set as "Cable Select", then set the added drive the same way.

>

> You need to identify the Sony's hard drive manufacturer to tell what the jumpers are

> currently set at, unless you can see the jumper settings on the drive label on the

> face of the drive.

>

> EVEREST Free Edition:

> http://www.majorgeeks.com/EVEREST_Free_Edition_d4181.html

>

> Run Everest, select Storage> Physical drives, on the left, and find the

> manufacturers of your installed hard drives.

> --

> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+

> http://dts-l.net/

> http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

>

March 7, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

"BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:88CE8CC8-8EBE-4294-B7BE-6B90C62FCA38@microsoft.com...

|

| "MEB" wrote:

|

| >

| > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

| > news:1A8A6A60-BABD-4A6F-BF4C-EA33D7E79643@microsoft.com...

| > | The start of this new Post regarding the 'Computer Failure' Post was

| > | suggested by "MEB", and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was

creating

| > | some confusion.

| > |

| > | As was discussed in the 'Computer Failure' Post, the Microtime

Computer,

| > | that I have been using for several years, has failed and I find it

rather

| > | difficult to get it operational, again. There is a Primary Master and

a

| > | Secondary Master HD's installed in it. There are folders in both that

have

| > | Data that I would like to recover. A more recent Computer, a Sony

VAIO,

| > | that I am currently using, appears to have all that I would need to

| > connect

| > | those HD's and recover the desired Data and back up the same, if

desired,

| > | on CD's or Iomega Zip 250 MB Disks. The only obstacle is of possible

| > | compatibility issues.

{DELETED MATERIALS CONTAIN VAIO IFORMATION-

(refer to the post containing it for reference

| > | Hopefully, this will mean something to you, "MEB" or anyone else able

to

| > help.

| > | Thank you in advance for any reply!

| >

| > One issue you failed to mention, which may or will be an issue, is that

the

| > other target drive [OS disk} had to be started in the other system by

using

| > a boot disk or other work around.

| ****

| ?"MEB", that was not the case. Early on, there was nothing wrong with the

| booting cycle, unless I

| needed or wanted to start with a Boot Disk. If I did that and inserted the

| Boot Disk before

| starting the booting cycle, at the Dos Prompt I would find myself in the

| Primary Slave HD. The

| Master HD would not be available. This surfaced when I replaced the

original

| HD, 10 GB in size,

| with a Maxtor with 40 GB. The MAX-BLAST software, that came with the

Maxtor

| HD, created

| an overlay. As mentioned, in a rather old post, few years back, in order

| to boot from a Boot

| Disk properly, I had to break the progress of booting with a CTRL Key and

| opt to boot from the

| Boot Disk that had to be inserted at that time.

| ***

AAAAAh, thanks for clarifying, the MAXTOR drive contains a drive overlay -

RE: that is the Microtime OS disk which you mentioned in the other postings,

which is not recognized when placed into other computers.

DRIVE OVERLAY programs use the computer's BIOS translation and access

routines when the algorythms are used to create and then use the overlay

with the manufacturer's tools.

This can even affect whether the hidden partition for the overlay

translation is addressed properly. Overlays are not Plug and Play, changing

to meet differring BIOS needs and translations, PARTICULARLY as the drive

adapter chip may interact with the BIOS in a different fashion, such as when

the drive IS supported within the BIOS verses when the overlay was need to

use the drive in an unsupportive BIOS and/or OS.

REMEMBER THIS: A different BIOS on another computer, OR *change within the

original BIOS* related to that hard drive, will likely change how that

overlay addresses the drive.

|

| But we can work from this {BTW, good

| > information to work from, thanks}. I had also created a new posting for

your

| > VAIO attempt, which outlines what had been found to that point * Sony

| > VAIO - WinME - hard drive usage and data recovery *. But we can work

from

| > here with this new information, as long as everyone reviews the other

| > postings as well so redundant suggestions aren't provided.

| >

|

| > I also created two new posts for your other computers:

| > Risys running Win31 - 98SE disk recovery

| > Microtime - Win98SE - computer diagnostics and repair

| >

| > There is a small program which might provide some useful information

| > provided by MiTeC:

| > http://www.mitec.cz/Downloads/msi.zip - 782K - system information - goto

| > Storage > Physical Devices for drive identification

| > http://www.mitec.cz/ - main page with tools

The above provides lots of information, without the necessity of an

installation of another bloated Windows program.

| >

| > You can likely go ahead and try to connect the DATA drive to the VAIO

as it

| > may already configured as SLAVE *IF* it was on the same cable as the

| > other/OS drive in the Microtime. Some info here:

| >

http://support.gateway.com/support/manlib/cmponts/harddriv/8505896/05896.htm

| >

| > If the drive works, pull the data off.

| >

| ****

| ?"MEB", I did that and it worked, although the there was some confusion

| about the ID of the Disks shown by 'My Computer'. Normally, Disk C: is

the

| Partition 0 of the Primary Master - D: Partition 1 - E: DVD - F: CD_ROM -

G:

| Zip Drive.

Did you forget that I had advised of that in the prior post/thread? Let me

repost so its in this discussion:

- - - PRIOR POST - - - -

| MEB:

| Here are potential issues when connecting a drive to the secondary

| connector on IDE0/channel1 - IRQ 14 [use SYSTEM > Device Manager > Hard

Disk

| Controllers > Primary IDE Controller > settings and resources to view].:

| *****

| BAP

| Sorry, I can't seem to find my way around to get to that pane.

|

| MEB - you are running ME which will have that in a different area.

|

| ***

|

| MEB:

| 1. The present drive [apparently 60 gig] is partitioned with C {the

primary

| boot partition} as a

| 15.5 gig drive, adding another drive would move the second partition

| presently being seen as the

| 41.6 gig drive D to drive E. The new hard drive would have to be

configured

| as a slave and the

| first hard drive as master with their jumpers or errors and potential disk

| corruption could occur.

| There could also be a hidden partition involved for SONY specific recovery

| or other, so it may be

| larger [an 80 gig drive perhaps, though that won't presently affect what

we

| are discussing], what

| is the actual model and make of that drive?

| There MAY potentially be a hard drive conflict if the drives are not

| compatible. What are the two drive's makes and models?

|

| 2. The two drives on the second channel [CD and DVD] will be moved to

drive

| F and G, but only IF the OS has not had its drives limited to only see

| drives up to drive F: limited by either the driver settings, system

| settings, or something like TweakUI which modified the registry or an

| inclusion in the system.ini or config.sys [lastdrive=*]. If this is the

| case, the lost/un-recognized drive will still cause errors even though it

is

| not listed in Windows, it is still holding memory and CMOS/BIOS addressing

| which Windows may try to assign to other needs, or may cause conflicting

| system device issues..

|

| 3. The Iomega drive adds potential issues to the mix if it has been set to

| always use some specific drive letter or IRQ, and/or if [as sometimes

| happens] it is incompatible with this older drive you are attempting to

| access.

|

| 4. A drive overlay may be part of the issue, but beyond that, we may also

be

| running across a disk or disks which have had Drive Space or Double Space

| [or another drive compressor] used.

|

------ END POST FROM OTHER DISCUSSIONS ^^^

| With the Microtime Primary Slave in place, C: was still Sony's HD Primary

| Master Partition 0 - D: the Microtime's Disk - E: Partition 1 of Sony -

G:

| was showing as the ZIP disk. However, if I inserted a CD in the CD_ROM

drive,

| G became the CD_ROM Disk - F:, showing as removable Disk, was, in effect,

| the ZIP Drive.

This is exactly as I had advised.

This also indicates that the ZIP disk has been *assigned* a drive letter.

| No matter, 'though, as I was able to copy the contents of the Microtime's

| Primary Slave HD.

*STEP 1 - SUCCESS* accomplished: now that AUTO had been set in the BIOS,

the Microtime DATA/storage disk has been recovered.

| All my steps taken, to configure the Microtime's Primary Master and make

it

| a Slave, did not succeed. The configuration shown on the HD about the

jumper

| positions did not work. However, the system detected that HD as a Primary

| Slave.

| This was shown: (besides other info)

| Primary Master Disk: 61492 MB UDMA 5

| Orimary Slave Disk: 30750 MB UDMA 5

| Secondary Master Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

| Secondary Slave Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

OKAY, let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

The disk is a MAXTOR - WHAT {model/number}?

|

| Without the Microtime's HD connected, this was shown:

| Primary Master Disk: 61492 MB UDMA 5

| Orimary Slave Disk: None

| Secondary Master Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

| Secondary Slave Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

|

| It was bothersome to see that the size of the Microtime's HD did not

appear

| to have the size that I thought it should have. I will check further into

| that.

PLEASE wait until we can determine how to address the MAXTOR disk in this

new BIOS. Obviously the BIOS has built-in support, so to fudge the disk and

attempt to access properly, we MAY need to attempt to manually set the BIOS

to mimic what the Microtime would have used AND that drive will need some

adjustments to its jumpers {configure as SLAVE} and its MBR/partition table

{its presently configured with a hidden overlay partition AND as a BOOT

disk}.

HOWEVER, finish reading this post before responding.

*IF* there's nothing you need from that drive, then use MAXTOR's [now

SEAGATE] disk tool to remove the overlay and the disk will be usable in ALL

BIOSes which support it natively. DO NOT attempt to use fdisk and format to

remove the overlay and its partition.

*IF* you want to recover that dsk:

1. REMOVE the present SONY VAIO master disk or unhook the ribbon AND power

cabling. Connect the ribbon and power to the Microtime MAXTOR mater/OS disk,

leaving it as MASTER; have the DATA Microtime hard drive configured as

SLAVE, connected to the same ribbon. It would be best to disconnect the ZIP

drive, and the CD and DVD for this part of the recovery attempt, as well, as

they were not part of the prior setup on the Microtime. To disable the CD

and DVD, disconnect their power, and the ribbon from the motherboard {noting

where the color indicator/stripe was in relation to the MB connector}

2. Attempt to boot the computer into SAFE MODE. Do NOT use NORMAL Startup as

that will attempt to reconfigure the Windows system which may not be

successful.

In Safe Mode, the disks will be using DOS compatibility mode, and the MASTER

should have used the Drive Overlay upon initial boot.

3. IF there is a successful SAFE MODE boot, pull any files or data off the

MASTER and put it on the SLAVE. IF the slave has insuficient space, as you

now have that data saved, DELETE the SLAVE drive files, and transfer what

ever files you need to it. Make sure those deleted files aren't taking up

space by being stored in the Recycle Bin.

4. IF you successfully retreive that data or files, you will need to

determine what you intend to use that former Microtime OS disk for in the

future.

5. IF SAFE MODE fails, attempt to start in pure DOS with either a boot

EBD/recovery floppy [preferred] or from the Windows Menu [Command Prompt

Only]. Type - fdisk /status - and post what it found.

| At any rate, 'My Computer' did not show this HD in the list of Disk

Drives.

| I wish there would be a way, but, I am glad that most of my data has been

| recovered.

| Thank you for all the suggestions.

| ***

Look above, and try that to see if that works, if not, we can attempt to

make some modifications to the VAIO BIOS HD settings OR we can use some

other recovery techniques. For that we will need the model number of the

Microtime computer and/or the motherboard make and model/number so we can

see what the BIOS was.

| > Checking for that drive shows it is actually a Hitachi drive DeskStar

16GP:

| > http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/products/Deskstar_16GP

| > Check those Hitachi jumpers!

| >

| > You can also try the drive fitness test, but do use no destructive

tests

| > until you recover the data:

| > http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT

| > http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/downloads/dft32_v412_b01.EXE Windows

| > creator, or

| > http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/downloads/dft32_v412_b01_install.IMG -

if

| > you already have a diskette program like WinImage installed

| >

If you intend to continue using that former DATA drive, it would be best to

test it for any potential failures. Use the tool.

ALSO if you recover the files/data off the MAXTOR, it would be best to use

Maxtor's {Seagate's] tools to remove the overlay, "reset" the disk, and

format, and to then test the disk, this time without the drive overlay.

Once we get these two disks recovered OR determine that we can't use the

VAIO with the former Microtime MASTER/OS disk, we can attempt to fix that

DVD and CDROM issue you previously mentioned.

*IF the VAIO fails or you want to try the Risys*, then you can use the above

outlined 5 steps in the Risys - WIN31 system to attempt recovery of the OS

disk. Likely that computer WILL need the overlay, and its older BIOS may

more closely match the Microtime. IF the drive is unsupported, go into the

BIOS, write down its present settings for later re-use with that Win31 hard

drive and any others, and manually set the BIOS hard drive settings to the

correct settings for both the master [Microtime] MAXTOR and the

secondary/slave IBM/HITACHI.

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

_________

March 7, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

BAP wrote:

> "dadiOH" wrote:

>

>> BAP wrote:

>>

>> <snip all>

>>

>> You are making what you want to do just WAAAYY harder than it is.

>> All you need do is remove a drive from the old computer, put it in

>> the new computer, boot and then copy the files you want.

>>

>> The only thing that makes a drive "master", slave", or "cable

>> select" is the position of the jumper on the back of the drive.

>> Different manufacturers may have different positions for the same

>> thing but there is normally a self explanatory diagram on the back

>> of the drive; if not, you can determine the correct jumper

>> position for whatever at the manufacturer's site.

>>

>> When putting old drive in new machine you can either hook it to the

>> primary IDE cable or the secondary one. If to the primary, you

>> would want old drive jumpered as slave as the new, existing drive

>> is master. If you hook it to the secondary channel, it can be

>> either master or slave. If it were me, I'd make it master after

>> unhooking any CD/DVD drives from that channel.

>>

> ****

> I am not quite clear about the one you are referring as the

> secondary cable. It sounds that it is the one to which the CD_Rom

> and the DVD are connected.

Correct

____________

> Are you suggesting for me to remove the

> CD or the DVD or both and hook to that cable either the

> Microtime's primary Master or the Primary Slave without having to

> worry about their configuration....Master or Slave? Thanks, for

> your reply! (See my reply to "MEB" with today's Date)

Yes. You said you had two hard drives in the old computer and that

one was primary master, the other secondary master; consequently you

could put either - one at a time - into the new computer on that now

free cable without having to worry about reconfiguring their jumper.

Hook the old drive onto the cable where the CD/DVD were using the same

plug position on that cable as was used in the old computer.

However, you now mention a primary slave in that computer and that

confuses me. Do you have three hard drives in that computer or did

you misspeak whne you said, "There is a Primary Master and a

Secondary Master HD's installed in it."?

--

dadiOH

____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...

....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from

LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.

Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

March 7, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

dadiOH wrote:

| BAP wrote:

|

| <snip all>

|

| You are making what you want to do just WAAAYY harder than it is. All

| you need do is remove a drive from the old computer, put it in the new

| computer, boot and then copy the files you want.

|

(1) There could be "geometry" considerations. For instance, the

transferred drive may have a drive overlay that is not needed on the

target machine, or visa versa. Or, BIOS may need to be informed of

geometry settings.

(2) Depending on the number & type of partitions on the existing hard

drive(s) of the target machine & on the hard drive(s) to be added to it,

drive letters may change when it is added...

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=51978

Order in Which MS-DOS and Windows Assign Drive Letters

If all is well, C: will remain C:-- BUT the added partition(s) may end

up inserted between other existing partitions. If so, consideration must

be given to Registry, shortcut & .ini ties (if any) to the displaced

drive number(s).

Therefore, I wouldn't click to run much of anything, but just hurry up &

copy the data. Then, remove the added drive to get back to normal. Or,

try something like...

http://www.pcmag.com/ 's COA2 will help with this. After you move a

file, folder or drive letter, you may use COA2 to change system

references to the new address. It will change references in the current

Registry and all .ini's & shortcuts on all drives. Nothing else,

however, is changed, including Registry (or other) zipped backups,

Autoexec.bat, Config.sys, or anything. And, there was a reference in

Autoexec.bat that I needed to change (for a CD-R/W drive letter). It

also will not change references that are binary, but those are generally

in MRU lists & will auto-adjust in time.

I see BAP has two partitions on a single hard drive in the destination

(Sony VAIO)...

Disk 0, Partition 0, 15.63GB (shown as Local Disk C: in ‘My Computer’})

Disk 0, Partition 1, 41.64GB (shown as Local Disk D:)

So... the issue will come up! It's first of all important to know

whether that D:partition is a primary or an extended partition. Next,

one must know how many & what type partitions are on the hard drive(s)

to be added to this machine.

| The only thing that makes a drive "master", slave", or "cable select"

| is the position of the jumper on the back of the drive.

There is also a "single" setting for certain Western Digital drives like

mine. It is used when the drive is alone on its cable. And consideration

must be given to whether the Master must be on the end & the Slave on

the middle connector; but that may be (not sure) a consideration for

cable select only.

| Different

| manufacturers may have different positions for the same thing but

| there is normally a self explanatory diagram on the back of the drive;

| if not, you can determine the correct jumper position for whatever at

| the manufacturer's site.

|

| When putting old drive in new machine you can either hook it to the

| primary IDE cable or the secondary one. If to the primary, you would

| want old drive jumpered as slave as the new, existing drive is master.

| If you hook it to the secondary channel, it can be either master or

| slave. If it were me, I'd make it master after unhooking any CD/DVD

| drives from that channel.

|

The CD/DVD gets its letter after all partitions. Replacing it with a

hard drive, could cause displacement to existing drive letters.

|

| --

|

| dadiOH

| ____________________________

|

| dadiOH's dandies v3.06...

| ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from

| LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.

| Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

March 8, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

"MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:OxsWlIJgIHA.1212@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

| "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

| news:88CE8CC8-8EBE-4294-B7BE-6B90C62FCA38@microsoft.com...

| | "MEB" wrote:

| | > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

| | > news:1A8A6A60-BABD-4A6F-BF4C-EA33D7E79643@microsoft.com...

| | > | The start of this new Post regarding the 'Computer Failure' Post was

| | > | suggested by "MEB", and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was

| creating

| | > | some confusion.

This lower section from the prior post MAY cause confusion, sorry if it

does. See the addendum below it.

|

| If you intend to continue using that former DATA drive, it would be best

to

| test it for any potential failures. Use the tool.

| ALSO if you recover the files/data off the MAXTOR, it would be best to

use

| Maxtor's {Seagate's] tools to remove the overlay, "reset" the disk, and

| format, and to then test the disk, this time without the drive overlay.

|

| Once we get these two disks recovered OR determine that we can't use the

| VAIO with the former Microtime MASTER/OS disk, we can attempt to fix that

| DVD and CDROM issue you previously mentioned.

|

| *IF the VAIO fails or you want to try the Risys*, then you can use the

above

| outlined 5 steps in the Risys - WIN31 system to attempt recovery of the OS

| disk. Likely that computer WILL need the overlay, and its older BIOS may

| more closely match the Microtime. IF the drive is unsupported, go into the

| BIOS, write down its present settings for later re-use with that Win31

hard

| drive and any others, and manually set the BIOS hard drive settings to the

| correct settings for both the master [Microtime] MAXTOR and the

| secondary/slave IBM/HITACHI.

|

| --

|

| MEB

ADDENDUM

When a hard disk setup program installs a hard drive with an overlay, it

also sets the computer BIOS with the settings it wants to use.

To obtain the BIOS settings necessary for using the drive overlaid disk, we

should look at the original Microtime computer's BIOS for the settings that

were set by the MAXTOR disk setup program.

As the Microtime's BIOS is apparently accessible, enter it and write down

what it holds for all the Master drive's settings [unless it was manually

set at sometime, or if you attempted those prior battery checks, and BIOS

reset and flash disk yet?] and transfer those to which ever computer you use

to attempt recovery. Though there may still be a translation issue, this

would give the best shot at recovery.

IF they have been wiped then it may still be possible on the Risys

computer..

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

_________

March 8, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

"dadiOH" wrote:

> BAP wrote:

> > "dadiOH" wrote:

> >

> >> BAP wrote:

> >>

> >> <snip all>

> >>

> >> You are making what you want to do just WAAAYY harder than it is.

> >> All you need do is remove a drive from the old computer, put it in

> >> the new computer, boot and then copy the files you want.

> >>

> >> The only thing that makes a drive "master", slave", or "cable

> >> select" is the position of the jumper on the back of the drive.

> >> Different manufacturers may have different positions for the same

> >> thing but there is normally a self explanatory diagram on the back

> >> of the drive; if not, you can determine the correct jumper

> >> position for whatever at the manufacturer's site.

> >>

> >> When putting old drive in new machine you can either hook it to the

> >> primary IDE cable or the secondary one. If to the primary, you

> >> would want old drive jumpered as slave as the new, existing drive

> >> is master. If you hook it to the secondary channel, it can be

> >> either master or slave. If it were me, I'd make it master after

> >> unhooking any CD/DVD drives from that channel.

> >>

> > ****

>

> > I am not quite clear about the one you are referring as the

> > secondary cable. It sounds that it is the one to which the CD_Rom

> > and the DVD are connected.

>

> Correct

> ____________

>

> > Are you suggesting for me to remove the

> > CD or the DVD or both and hook to that cable either the

> > Microtime's primary Master or the Primary Slave without having to

> > worry about their configuration....Master or Slave? Thanks, for

> > your reply! (See my reply to "MEB" with today's Date)

>

> Yes. You said you had two hard drives in the old computer and that

> one was primary master, the other secondary master; consequently you

> could put either - one at a time - into the new computer on that now

> free cable without having to worry about reconfiguring their jumper.

> Hook the old drive onto the cable where the CD/DVD were using the same

> plug position on that cable as was used in the old computer.

>

> However, you now mention a primary slave in that computer and that

> confuses me. Do you have three hard drives in that computer or did

> you misspeak whne you said, "There is a Primary Master and a

> Secondary Master HD's installed in it."?

>

****

The terminology has been sort of difficult to keep straight in my mind. The

way I have come to believe is that, regarding the Hard Disks, the one with

the OS is the Primary Master and the I use for Data storage is the Primary

Slave. The CD_ROM and the DVD drives are Secondary Master and secondary

Slave, or viceversa, I think. Is that correct?

By now, you might have seen my reply to "MEB" about the fact that I was able

to recover the Data stored in the Primary Slave of the 'failed Computer' and

the failure to get anywhere with its Primary Master. It sounds that the

Overlay created by MAX-BLAST that came with that HD, a Maxtor, my be creating

problems, according to "MEB". Any possibility that things might work out

better if I were to remove the DVD Disk Drive from the Sony and hook that

Master HD to the vacant cable connection?

Thank you!

***

>

> --

>

> dadiOH

> ____________________________

>

> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...

> ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from

> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.

> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

>

March 8, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

"MEB", I need time to fully understand the available options and see if I

would feel comfortable in taking some steps to follow up on your suggestions.

For now, some new information.

The label on the Microtime’s Primary Master Disk has this information:

Maxtor HD - Diamond Max Plus8 - 30 GB ATA/133 HDD - Date: 4 Jan. 2003

Code NAR 61590 - LAB: 60058656 - ER - 3.5 Series

The jumpers for a Master are shown to occupy adjacent combinations of top

and bottom pins. The first, closest to the IDE(?) cable, was on the second

and bottom pins. However, while in use on the Microtime Computer as Primary

Master, only the first jumper was in place. To make it a slave, the label

showed two adjacent parallel jumpers on the top row of pins. The first was on

the first and second pin, again, toward the IDE cable. I tried in that

fashion and Sony detected it while

booting, but it would not show it ‘My Computer mix. I tried other

combination, even no jumpers, but all ended up similarly. The Everest

software, downloaded and used as suggested by Glee, did not show a Physical

Device option. The MSI, you suggested, did have that option and I was

surprised to see the Maxtor in that listing. This is what was shown:

- Physical Devices:

IBM- DTLA-307060[58644 MB]

MAXTOR 6E030L0 [29325 MB]

- Removable Drives: A: and G:

- Other Drives: C:, D:, E: and F:

- ASPI:

PIONEER DVD-ROM DVD 115-R

SONY CD-RW CRX 140E

IOMEGA ZIP 250

However, the Maxtor is not in view in 'My Computer'.

Thank you!

****

"MEB" wrote:

>

> "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> news:OxsWlIJgIHA.1212@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> | "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> | news:88CE8CC8-8EBE-4294-B7BE-6B90C62FCA38@microsoft.com...

> | | "MEB" wrote:

> | | > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> | | > news:1A8A6A60-BABD-4A6F-BF4C-EA33D7E79643@microsoft.com...

> | | > | The start of this new Post regarding the 'Computer Failure' Post was

> | | > | suggested by "MEB", and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was

> | creating

> | | > | some confusion.

>

> This lower section from the prior post MAY cause confusion, sorry if it

> does. See the addendum below it.

>

> |

> | If you intend to continue using that former DATA drive, it would be best

> to

> | test it for any potential failures. Use the tool.

> | ALSO if you recover the files/data off the MAXTOR, it would be best to

> use

> | Maxtor's {Seagate's] tools to remove the overlay, "reset" the disk, and

> | format, and to then test the disk, this time without the drive overlay.

> |

> | Once we get these two disks recovered OR determine that we can't use the

> | VAIO with the former Microtime MASTER/OS disk, we can attempt to fix that

> | DVD and CDROM issue you previously mentioned.

> |

> | *IF the VAIO fails or you want to try the Risys*, then you can use the

> above

> | outlined 5 steps in the Risys - WIN31 system to attempt recovery of the OS

> | disk. Likely that computer WILL need the overlay, and its older BIOS may

> | more closely match the Microtime. IF the drive is unsupported, go into the

> | BIOS, write down its present settings for later re-use with that Win31

> hard

> | drive and any others, and manually set the BIOS hard drive settings to the

> | correct settings for both the master [Microtime] MAXTOR and the

> | secondary/slave IBM/HITACHI.

> |

> | --

> |

> | MEB

>

> ADDENDUM

>

> When a hard disk setup program installs a hard drive with an overlay, it

> also sets the computer BIOS with the settings it wants to use.

> To obtain the BIOS settings necessary for using the drive overlaid disk, we

> should look at the original Microtime computer's BIOS for the settings that

> were set by the MAXTOR disk setup program.

> As the Microtime's BIOS is apparently accessible, enter it and write down

> what it holds for all the Master drive's settings [unless it was manually

> set at sometime, or if you attempted those prior battery checks, and BIOS

> reset and flash disk yet?] and transfer those to which ever computer you use

> to attempt recovery. Though there may still be a translation issue, this

> would give the best shot at recovery.

> IF they have been wiped then it may still be possible on the Risys

> computer..

>

> --

>

> MEB

> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

> _________

>

March 8, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

BAP wrote:

> "dadiOH" wrote:

>

>> BAP wrote:

>>> "dadiOH" wrote:

>>>

>>>> BAP wrote:

>>>>

>>>> <snip all>

>>>>

>>>> You are making what you want to do just WAAAYY harder than it is.

>>>> All you need do is remove a drive from the old computer, put it

>>>> in the new computer, boot and then copy the files you want.

>>>>

>>>> The only thing that makes a drive "master", slave", or "cable

>>>> select" is the position of the jumper on the back of the drive.

>>>> Different manufacturers may have different positions for the same

>>>> thing but there is normally a self explanatory diagram on the

>>>> back of the drive; if not, you can determine the correct jumper

>>>> position for whatever at the manufacturer's site.

>>>>

>>>> When putting old drive in new machine you can either hook it to

>>>> the primary IDE cable or the secondary one. If to the primary,

>>>> you would want old drive jumpered as slave as the new, existing

>>>> drive is master. If you hook it to the secondary channel, it can

>>>> be either master or slave. If it were me, I'd make it master

>>>> after unhooking any CD/DVD drives from that channel.

>>>>

>>> ****

>>

>>> I am not quite clear about the one you are referring as the

>>> secondary cable. It sounds that it is the one to which the CD_Rom

>>> and the DVD are connected.

>>

>> Correct

>> ____________

>>

>>> Are you suggesting for me to remove the

>>> CD or the DVD or both and hook to that cable either the

>>> Microtime's primary Master or the Primary Slave without having to

>>> worry about their configuration....Master or Slave? Thanks, for

>>> your reply! (See my reply to "MEB" with today's Date)

>>

>> Yes. You said you had two hard drives in the old computer and that

>> one was primary master, the other secondary master; consequently

>> you could put either - one at a time - into the new computer on

>> that now free cable without having to worry about reconfiguring

>> their jumper. Hook the old drive onto the cable where the CD/DVD

>> were using the same plug position on that cable as was used in

>> the old computer.

>>

>> However, you now mention a primary slave in that computer and that

>> confuses me. Do you have three hard drives in that computer or did

>> you misspeak whne you said, "There is a Primary Master and a

>> Secondary Master HD's installed in it."?

>>

> ****

> The terminology has been sort of difficult to keep straight in my

> mind. The way I have come to believe is that, regarding the Hard

> Disks, the one with the OS is the Primary Master and the I use for

> Data storage is the Primary Slave. The CD_ROM and the DVD drives

> are Secondary Master and secondary Slave, or viceversa, I think. Is

> that correct?

> By now, you might have seen my reply to "MEB" about the fact that I

> was able to recover the Data stored in the Primary Slave of the

> 'failed Computer' and the failure to get anywhere with its Primary

> Master. It sounds that the Overlay created by MAX-BLAST that came

> with that HD, a Maxtor, my be creating problems, according to

> "MEB". Any possibility that things might work out better if I were

> to remove the DVD Disk Drive from the Sony and hook that Master HD

> to the vacant cable connection?

> Thank you!

> ***

I would think so, try it. But determine which drive -CD or DVD - is

master and replace whichever is. If you are in doubt about which is

master/slave, SIW will tell you...

http://www.gtopala.com/

If you don't want to add still another program (it's a good one) then

assume the optical drive at the end of the ribbon cable is Master and

replace it.

--

dadiOH

____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...

....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from

LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.

Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

March 8, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

dadiOH wrote:

> BAP wrote:

>> Any possibility that things might work out better if I were

>> to remove the DVD Disk Drive from the Sony and hook that Master HD

>> to the vacant cable connection?

>> Thank you!

>> ***

>

> I would think so, try it. But determine which drive -CD or DVD -

> is master and replace whichever is. If you are in doubt about

> which is master/slave, SIW will tell you...

> http://www.gtopala.com/

>

> If you don't want to add still another program (it's a good one)

> then assume the optical drive at the end of the ribbon cable is

> Master and replace it.

BTW, you need not physically remove the optical drive(s) from the

computer, merely disconnect the ribbon and power cables when the

machine is off. By the same tolen, you do not need to physically

place the hard drive into a drive tray, just connect the power and

ribbon cables after placing the drive wherever the cables can reach.

If you do what I suggest, I have no idea what the drive letter will be

in your setup so use explorer to browse your drives. If for some

reason it does NOT show up in explorer, power down the computer and

attach the drive you want to read to the other terminal on the ribbon

cable.

--

dadiOH

____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...

....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from

LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.

Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

March 8, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

PCR wrote:

> dadiOH wrote:

>> BAP wrote:

>>

>> <snip all>

>>

>> You are making what you want to do just WAAAYY harder than it is.

>> All you need do is remove a drive from the old computer, put it in

>> the new computer, boot and then copy the files you want.

Jeez, guy...the OP just wants to take an old drive and get the data

off it using another machine.

1. Put old drive - properly jumpered - in new machine (not as the

boot drive)

2. Boot new machine

3. Copy data

_____________

> (1) There could be "geometry" considerations. For instance, the

> transferred drive may have a drive overlay that is not needed on the

> target machine, or visa versa. Or, BIOS may need to be informed of

> geometry settings.

What difference would a drive overlay make? He isn't trying to boot

from the old drive, just copy from it.

_____________

> (2) Depending on the number & type of partitions on the existing

> hard drive(s) of the target machine & on the hard drive(s) to be

> added to it, drive letters may change when it is added...

True. So he browses until he finds it.

______________

> If all is well, C: will remain C:-- BUT the added partition(s) may

> end up inserted between other existing partitions. If so,

> consideration must be given to Registry, shortcut & .ini ties (if

> any) to the displaced drive number(s).

> Therefore, I wouldn't click to run much of anything, but just hurry

> up & copy the data.

Well, that's what he *wants* to do - copy, not run programs. I think

by "data" he *means* data. Registry, shortcuts, etc. have zero effect

on that.

________________

> Then, remove the added drive to get back to

> normal. Or, try something like...

> http://www.pcmag.com/ 's COA2 will help with this. After you move a

> file, folder or drive letter, you may use COA2 to change system

> references to the new address. It will change references in the

> current Registry and all .ini's & shortcuts on all drives.

Not needed for what he wants.

________________

> The CD/DVD gets its letter after all partitions. Replacing it with a

> hard drive, could cause displacement to existing drive letters.

Yes, but what does it matter? After he copies his data, removes the

HD and hooks up the optical drive(s) again, all will be well.

Besides, IMO, it is a good idea to have the optical drive letters set

near the end of the alphabet. YMMV

Really, folks...what the OP wants to do is a pretty simple thing.

Thoroughness is nice and all that but at some point it leads to

obfuscation

--

dadiOH

____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...

....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from

LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.

Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

March 8, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

"BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:82CFEB12-B0A6-408F-B8D9-6B1EBFA775E7@microsoft.com...

| "MEB", I need time to fully understand the available options and see if I

| would feel comfortable in taking some steps to follow up on your

suggestions.

| For now, some new information.

|

| The label on the Microtime's Primary Master Disk has this information:

| Maxtor HD - Diamond Max Plus8 - 30 GB ATA/133 HDD - Date: 4 Jan. 2003

| Code NAR 61590 - LAB: 60058656 - ER - 3.5 Series

| The jumpers for a Master are shown to occupy adjacent combinations of top

| and bottom pins. The first, closest to the IDE(?) cable, was on the second

| and bottom pins. However, while in use on the Microtime Computer as

Primary

| Master, only the first jumper was in place. To make it a slave, the label

| showed two adjacent parallel jumpers on the top row of pins. The first was

on

| the first and second pin, again, toward the IDE cable. I tried in that

| fashion and Sony detected it while

| booting, but it would not show it 'My Computer mix. I tried other

| combination, even no jumpers, but all ended up similarly. The Everest

| software, downloaded and used as suggested by Glee, did not show a

Physical

| Device option. The MSI, you suggested, did have that option and I was

| surprised to see the Maxtor in that listing. This is what was shown:

| - Physical Devices:

| IBM- DTLA-307060[58644 MB]

| MAXTOR 6E030L0 [29325 MB]

| - Removable Drives: A: and G:

| - Other Drives: C:, D:, E: and F:

| - ASPI:

| PIONEER DVD-ROM DVD 115-R

| SONY CD-RW CRX 140E

| IOMEGA ZIP 250

| However, the Maxtor is not in view in 'My Computer'.

| Thank you!

| ****

Okay, take your time, and proceed CAREFULLY..

As stated and noted in the ADDENDUM, the Risys may be your best option to

use on that Microtime OS {MAXTOR Diamond MAX} disk. It certainly will negate

the need and worry associated with your WORKING on the likely "most used"

VAIO for and during testing.

And I hate to say this, but if anyone continues to attempt to tell you to

just stick an overlaid disk in any computer and it should work, IGNORE

them.They apparently do not fully understand [or have forgotten] how drive

translations are handled when confronted with overlaid drives and BIOS

unsupported drives. The overlay program generally HARD SETS the CHS values

during the setup routine to values found in agreement with its algorithms,

which must NOT be changed or you risk an inaccessible disk or data

corruption.

The reason for *my* suggesting the TRIAL installation was to determine IF

Windows [using Microtime's OS disk 98SE AS MASTER] could BOOT, and if so,

its ability to find the disk, and BIOS handling of the disk using SAFE MODE

(DOS compatibility mode) - NOT Normal Mode [[[ EMPHASIS !!!!!!!]]] or

preferably DOS MODE fdisk /status and other tools [this was a test for any

compatibility that might have been available].

There was little chance of it actually working [both Microtime disks using

the former jumper and ribbon configuration, in the VAIO], and little chance

of damage to any data on the disk, as it likely could not be found [bIOS is

wrong] or by Windows 98; or accessed using your present VAIO Millennium OS

{unless by some strange circumstance the BIOS and overlay happened to match

up [not likely at AUTO], which was the reason for also placing the

Microtime's old data disk in so IF this occurred you could pull the files.};

but its * on hard drive ADAPTER CHIP information * might have been accessed,

unless damaged, using DOS tools.

Okay, not exactly how I suggested but, this has now been found by the MiTeC

MSI - System Information tool, which confirms the disk CAN be accessed at

the *adapter level* [disk chip OK - it accepts AT queries, at least so far],

and taken with your visual inspection; confirms both additional information,

and agreement with the adapter and the drive's own sticker information.

*| Maxtor HD - Diamond Max Plus8 - 30 GB [potential - unformatted] - sticker

*| MAXTOR 6E030L0 [29325 MB] {actual physically usable}- MSI recovered

information

..{different formulas are used by the manufacturers than what is actually

usable - see prior discussions in this group related to this aspect}

** I do have preliminary testing questions for you though, IF you intend to

continue to follow my advise and techniques:

How comfortable are you with using hard disk testing and recovery tools,

such as TESTDISK [preferred] , HDAT2, and MHDD?

Or are you one of those who use BootItNG or PowerQuest?

Or some other tools?

NOT saying you need to use any yet [and don't], just questioning whether

you have ever used one and which one(s), should it become necessary.

IF you intend to continue, then use my prior outlined suggestions for the

Microtime OS disk and its DATA disk [master/slave], *with and on the Risys

computer*, so you don't unintentionally screw-up the VAIO.. If you want, in

this discussion, just re-outline the issue(s) you had with the VAIO CD >

DVD {and modify the heading}, so they can be worked on.

BTW: What processor, speed, and memory is the Risys verses the Microtime?

And what motherboard does it have? PUT that information in the Discussion I

previously created for the Risys computer [you found it right?], and we can

continue there.

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

_________

|

| "MEB" wrote:

|

| >

| > "MEB" <meb@not here@hotmail.com> wrote in message

| > news:OxsWlIJgIHA.1212@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

| > | "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

| > | news:88CE8CC8-8EBE-4294-B7BE-6B90C62FCA38@microsoft.com...

| > | | "MEB" wrote:

| > | | > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

| > | | > news:1A8A6A60-BABD-4A6F-BF4C-EA33D7E79643@microsoft.com...

| > | | > | The start of this new Post regarding the 'Computer Failure' Post

was

| > | | > | suggested by "MEB", and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was

| > | creating

| > | | > | some confusion.

| >

| > This lower section from the prior post MAY cause confusion, sorry if it

| > does. See the addendum below it.

| >

| > |

| > | If you intend to continue using that former DATA drive, it would be

best

| > to

| > | test it for any potential failures. Use the tool.

| > | ALSO if you recover the files/data off the MAXTOR, it would be best

to

| > use

| > | Maxtor's {Seagate's] tools to remove the overlay, "reset" the disk,

and

| > | format, and to then test the disk, this time without the drive

overlay.

| > |

| > | Once we get these two disks recovered OR determine that we can't use

the

| > | VAIO with the former Microtime MASTER/OS disk, we can attempt to fix

that

| > | DVD and CDROM issue you previously mentioned.

| > |

| > | *IF the VAIO fails or you want to try the Risys*, then you can use the

| > above

| > | outlined 5 steps in the Risys - WIN31 system to attempt recovery of

the OS

| > | disk. Likely that computer WILL need the overlay, and its older BIOS

may

| > | more closely match the Microtime. IF the drive is unsupported, go into

the

| > | BIOS, write down its present settings for later re-use with that Win31

| > hard

| > | drive and any others, and manually set the BIOS hard drive settings to

the

| > | correct settings for both the master [Microtime] MAXTOR and the

| > | secondary/slave IBM/HITACHI.

| > |

| > | --

| > |

| > | MEB

| >

| > ADDENDUM

| >

| > When a hard disk setup program installs a hard drive with an overlay,

it

| > also sets the computer BIOS with the settings it wants to use.

| > To obtain the BIOS settings necessary for using the drive overlaid disk,

we

| > should look at the original Microtime computer's BIOS for the settings

that

| > were set by the MAXTOR disk setup program.

| > As the Microtime's BIOS is apparently accessible, enter it and write

down

| > what it holds for all the Master drive's settings [unless it was

manually

| > set at sometime, or if you attempted those prior battery checks, and

BIOS

| > reset and flash disk yet?] and transfer those to which ever computer you

use

| > to attempt recovery. Though there may still be a translation issue, this

| > would give the best shot at recovery.

| > IF they have been wiped then it may still be possible on the Risys

| > computer..

| >

| > --

| >

| > MEB

| > http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

| > _________

| >

March 10, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

dadiOH wrote:

| PCR wrote:

|> dadiOH wrote:

|>> BAP wrote:

|>>

|>> <snip all>

|>>

|>> You are making what you want to do just WAAAYY harder than it is.

|>> All you need do is remove a drive from the old computer, put it in

|>> the new computer, boot and then copy the files you want.

|

| Jeez, guy...the OP just wants to take an old drive and get the data

| off it using another machine.

| 1. Put old drive - properly jumpered - in new machine (not as the

| boot drive)

| 2. Boot new machine

| 3. Copy data

| _____________

|

|> (1) There could be "geometry" considerations. For instance, the

|> transferred drive may have a drive overlay that is not needed on the

|> target machine, or visa versa. Or, BIOS may need to be informed of

|> geometry settings.

|

| What difference would a drive overlay make? He isn't trying to boot

| from the old drive, just copy from it.

I'm no expert in that, but... whether or not a drive is the boot drive,

it could be too large to access w/o an overlay or similar mechanism, I

think. Also, I'd want to know the BIOS of the destination machine is set

to auto-detect the added hard drive. I hope that would recognize any

special doings of the donor machine, (but I'm no expert in that,

either).

_____________

|

|> (2) Depending on the number & type of partitions on the existing

|> hard drive(s) of the target machine & on the hard drive(s) to be

|> added to it, drive letters may change when it is added...

|

| True. So he browses until he finds it.

Yea. But it might be confusing at first!

______________

|

|> If all is well, C: will remain C:-- BUT the added partition(s) may

|> end up inserted between other existing partitions. If so,

|> consideration must be given to Registry, shortcut & .ini ties (if

|> any) to the displaced drive number(s).

|> Therefore, I wouldn't click to run much of anything, but just hurry

|> up & copy the data.

|

| Well, that's what he *wants* to do - copy, not run programs. I think

| by "data" he *means* data. Registry, shortcuts, etc. have zero effect

| on that.

It's a legitimate worry, though, if he tries to do more than that. It

might not be horribly bad, depending on what is run & where it expects

things to be.

| ________________

|

|> Then, remove the added drive to get back to

|> normal. Or, try something like...

|> http://www.pcmag.com/ 's COA2 will help with this. After you move a

|> file, folder or drive letter, you may use COA2 to change system

|> references to the new address. It will change references in the

|> current Registry and all .ini's & shortcuts on all drives.

|

| Not needed for what he wants.

Right, I wouldn't do it, except for a permanent change.

| ________________

|

|> The CD/DVD gets its letter after all partitions. Replacing it with a

|> hard drive, could cause displacement to existing drive letters.

|

| Yes, but what does it matter? After he copies his data, removes the

| HD and hooks up the optical drive(s) again, all will be well.

| Besides, IMO, it is a good idea to have the optical drive letters set

| near the end of the alphabet. YMMV

I agree with that, & I have long ago moved my CD-ROM to be "W\".

| Really, folks...what the OP wants to do is a pretty simple thing.

| Thoroughness is nice and all that but at some point it leads to

| obfuscation

Well... some mention of BIOS parameters, partition letters, & drive

overlays is warranted.

|

| --

|

| dadiOH

| ____________________________

|

| dadiOH's dandies v3.06...

| ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from

| LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.

| Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

March 10, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

"MEB" wrote:

>

> "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:88CE8CC8-8EBE-4294-B7BE-6B90C62FCA38@microsoft.com...

> |

> | "MEB" wrote:

> |

> | >

> | > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> | > news:1A8A6A60-BABD-4A6F-BF4C-EA33D7E79643@microsoft.com...

> | > | The start of this new Post regarding the 'Computer Failure' Post was

> | > | suggested by "MEB", and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was

> creating

> | > | some confusion.

> | > |

> | > | As was discussed in the 'Computer Failure' Post, the Microtime

> Computer,

> | > | that I have been using for several years, has failed and I find it

> rather

> | > | difficult to get it operational, again. There is a Primary Master and

> a

> | > | Secondary Master HD's installed in it. There are folders in both that

> have

> | > | Data that I would like to recover. A more recent Computer, a Sony

> VAIO,

> | > | that I am currently using, appears to have all that I would need to

> | > connect

> | > | those HD's and recover the desired Data and back up the same, if

> desired,

> | > | on CD's or Iomega Zip 250 MB Disks. The only obstacle is of possible

> | > | compatibility issues.

>

> {DELETED MATERIALS CONTAIN VAIO IFORMATION-

> (refer to the post containing it for reference

>

> | > | Hopefully, this will mean something to you, "MEB" or anyone else able

> to

> | > help.

> | > | Thank you in advance for any reply!

> | >

> | > One issue you failed to mention, which may or will be an issue, is that

> the

> | > other target drive [OS disk} had to be started in the other system by

> using

> | > a boot disk or other work around.

> | ****

> | ?"MEB", that was not the case. Early on, there was nothing wrong with the

> | booting cycle, unless I

> | needed or wanted to start with a Boot Disk. If I did that and inserted the

> | Boot Disk before

> | starting the booting cycle, at the Dos Prompt I would find myself in the

> | Primary Slave HD. The

> | Master HD would not be available. This surfaced when I replaced the

> original

> | HD, 10 GB in size,

> | with a Maxtor with 40 GB. The MAX-BLAST software, that came with the

> Maxtor

> | HD, created

> | an overlay. As mentioned, in a rather old post, few years back, in order

> | to boot from a Boot

> | Disk properly, I had to break the progress of booting with a CTRL Key and

> | opt to boot from the

> | Boot Disk that had to be inserted at that time.

> | ***

>

> AAAAAh, thanks for clarifying, the MAXTOR drive contains a drive overlay -

> RE: that is the Microtime OS disk which you mentioned in the other postings,

> which is not recognized when placed into other computers.

>

> DRIVE OVERLAY programs use the computer's BIOS translation and access

> routines when the algorythms are used to create and then use the overlay

> with the manufacturer's tools.

> This can even affect whether the hidden partition for the overlay

> translation is addressed properly. Overlays are not Plug and Play, changing

> to meet differring BIOS needs and translations, PARTICULARLY as the drive

> adapter chip may interact with the BIOS in a different fashion, such as when

> the drive IS supported within the BIOS verses when the overlay was need to

> use the drive in an unsupportive BIOS and/or OS.

> REMEMBER THIS: A different BIOS on another computer, OR *change within the

> original BIOS* related to that hard drive, will likely change how that

> overlay addresses the drive.

>

> |

> | But we can work from this {BTW, good

> | > information to work from, thanks}. I had also created a new posting for

> your

> | > VAIO attempt, which outlines what had been found to that point * Sony

> | > VAIO - WinME - hard drive usage and data recovery *. But we can work

> from

> | > here with this new information, as long as everyone reviews the other

> | > postings as well so redundant suggestions aren't provided.

> | >

> |

> | > I also created two new posts for your other computers:

> | > Risys running Win31 - 98SE disk recovery

> | > Microtime - Win98SE - computer diagnostics and repair

> | >

> | > There is a small program which might provide some useful information

> | > provided by MiTeC:

> | > http://www.mitec.cz/Downloads/msi.zip - 782K - system information - goto

> | > Storage > Physical Devices for drive identification

> | > http://www.mitec.cz/ - main page with tools

>

> The above provides lots of information, without the necessity of an

> installation of another bloated Windows program.

>

> | >

> | > You can likely go ahead and try to connect the DATA drive to the VAIO

> as it

> | > may already configured as SLAVE *IF* it was on the same cable as the

> | > other/OS drive in the Microtime. Some info here:

> | >

> http://support.gateway.com/support/manlib/cmponts/harddriv/8505896/05896.htm

> | >

> | > If the drive works, pull the data off.

> | >

> | ****

> | ?"MEB", I did that and it worked, although the there was some confusion

> | about the ID of the Disks shown by 'My Computer'. Normally, Disk C: is

> the

> | Partition 0 of the Primary Master - D: Partition 1 - E: DVD - F: CD_ROM -

> G:

> | Zip Drive.

>

> Did you forget that I had advised of that in the prior post/thread? Let me

> repost so its in this discussion:

> - - - PRIOR POST - - - -

> | MEB:

> | Here are potential issues when connecting a drive to the secondary

> | connector on IDE0/channel1 - IRQ 14 [use SYSTEM > Device Manager > Hard

> Disk

> | Controllers > Primary IDE Controller > settings and resources to view].:

> | *****

> | BAP

> | Sorry, I can't seem to find my way around to get to that pane.

> |

> | MEB - you are running ME which will have that in a different area.

> |

> | ***

> |

> | MEB:

> | 1. The present drive [apparently 60 gig] is partitioned with C {the

> primary

> | boot partition} as a

> | 15.5 gig drive, adding another drive would move the second partition

> | presently being seen as the

> | 41.6 gig drive D to drive E. The new hard drive would have to be

> configured

> | as a slave and the

> | first hard drive as master with their jumpers or errors and potential disk

> | corruption could occur.

> | There could also be a hidden partition involved for SONY specific recovery

> | or other, so it may be

> | larger [an 80 gig drive perhaps, though that won't presently affect what

> we

> | are discussing], what

> | is the actual model and make of that drive?

> | There MAY potentially be a hard drive conflict if the drives are not

> | compatible. What are the two drive's makes and models?

> |

> | 2. The two drives on the second channel [CD and DVD] will be moved to

> drive

> | F and G, but only IF the OS has not had its drives limited to only see

> | drives up to drive F: limited by either the driver settings, system

> | settings, or something like TweakUI which modified the registry or an

> | inclusion in the system.ini or config.sys [lastdrive=*]. If this is the

> | case, the lost/un-recognized drive will still cause errors even though it

> is

> | not listed in Windows, it is still holding memory and CMOS/BIOS addressing

> | which Windows may try to assign to other needs, or may cause conflicting

> | system device issues..

> |

> | 3. The Iomega drive adds potential issues to the mix if it has been set to

> | always use some specific drive letter or IRQ, and/or if [as sometimes

> | happens] it is incompatible with this older drive you are attempting to

> | access.

> |

> | 4. A drive overlay may be part of the issue, but beyond that, we may also

> be

> | running across a disk or disks which have had Drive Space or Double Space

> | [or another drive compressor] used.

> |

> ------ END POST FROM OTHER DISCUSSIONS ^^^

>

> | With the Microtime Primary Slave in place, C: was still Sony's HD Primary

> | Master Partition 0 - D: the Microtime's Disk - E: Partition 1 of Sony -

> G:

> | was showing as the ZIP disk. However, if I inserted a CD in the CD_ROM

> drive,

> | G became the CD_ROM Disk - F:, showing as removable Disk, was, in effect,

> | the ZIP Drive.

>

> This is exactly as I had advised.

> This also indicates that the ZIP disk has been *assigned* a drive letter.

>

> | No matter, 'though, as I was able to copy the contents of the Microtime's

> | Primary Slave HD.

>

> *STEP 1 - SUCCESS* accomplished: now that AUTO had been set in the BIOS,

> the Microtime DATA/storage disk has been recovered.

>

> | All my steps taken, to configure the Microtime's Primary Master and make

> it

> | a Slave, did not succeed. The configuration shown on the HD about the

> jumper

> | positions did not work. However, the system detected that HD as a Primary

> | Slave.

> | This was shown: (besides other info)

> | Primary Master Disk: 61492 MB UDMA 5

> | Orimary Slave Disk: 30750 MB UDMA 5

> | Secondary Master Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

> | Secondary Slave Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

>

> OKAY, let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

>

> The disk is a MAXTOR - WHAT {model/number}?

>

> |

> | Without the Microtime's HD connected, this was shown:

> | Primary Master Disk: 61492 MB UDMA 5

> | Orimary Slave Disk: None

> | Secondary Master Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

> | Secondary Slave Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

> |

> | It was bothersome to see that the size of the Microtime's HD did not

> appear

> | to have the size that I thought it should have. I will check further into

> | that.

>

> PLEASE wait until we can determine how to address the MAXTOR disk in this

> new BIOS. Obviously the BIOS has built-in support, so to fudge the disk and

> attempt to access properly, we MAY need to attempt to manually set the BIOS

> to mimic what the Microtime would have used AND that drive will need some

> adjustments to its jumpers {configure as SLAVE} and its MBR/partition table

> {its presently configured with a hidden overlay partition AND as a BOOT

> disk}.

> HOWEVER, finish reading this post before responding.

>

> *IF* there's nothing you need from that drive, then use MAXTOR's [now

> SEAGATE] disk tool to remove the overlay and the disk will be usable in ALL

> BIOSes which support it natively. DO NOT attempt to use fdisk and format to

> remove the overlay and its partition.

>

> *IF* you want to recover that dsk:

>

> 1. REMOVE the present SONY VAIO master disk or unhook the ribbon AND power

> cabling. Connect the ribbon and power to the Microtime MAXTOR mater/OS disk,

> leaving it as MASTER; have the DATA Microtime hard drive configured as

> SLAVE, connected to the same ribbon. It would be best to disconnect the ZIP

> drive, and the CD and DVD for this part of the recovery attempt, as well, as

> they were not part of the prior setup on the Microtime. To disable the CD

> and DVD, disconnect their power, and the ribbon from the motherboard {noting

> where the color indicator/stripe was in relation to the MB connector}

>

****

I should have concentrated on the options you presented, 2, 3, 4 and 5

that follow. Instead I got excited about the first option and what it was

saying.

Although sort of apprehensive about what I was doing, the suggested scheme

of removing Sony’s Primary Master HD and put in its place the Microtime’s

Primary. Master HD, brought good results. I had the ZIP, CD_ROM and the DVD

disconnected. There were several instances, during the booting cycle, where

warnings popped out that new hardware had been found and the system wanted to

find the best ways to deal with them and/or asked for the W98 installation

Disk. I allowed some events to

happen, then, rather fearful, I started canceling the suggested steps or

closing the dialog boxes. Eventually, it did complete the booting process and

the HD became available, along with the same layout of the Desktop as the

Microtime.

All the folders and data were available.

I powered it down reconnected all the disconnected Drives and re-connected

the

companion Primary Slave. I re-booted (this time without warnings) and

copied the desired Data from the Master to the Slave.

Once done, I replaced the Primary Master with the Sony’s Master and copied

the Data from the Microtime's Slave to the Sony’s second Partition. All came

out well.

Later, I removed the Microtime’s Primary Slave and closed up the tower of

the Sony,

All is back to normal. Hopefully, the warning boxes and the allowed steps

did not create problems that may pop up in time.

I will plan on backing up all that I want on CD's.

Thank you, “MEB”, for all your help!

Thank you to all those who contributed to this issue!

***

> 2. Attempt to boot the computer into SAFE MODE. Do NOT use NORMAL Startup as

> that will attempt to reconfigure the Windows system which may not be

> successful.

> In Safe Mode, the disks will be using DOS compatibility mode, and the MASTER

> should have used the Drive Overlay upon initial boot.

>

> 3. IF there is a successful SAFE MODE boot, pull any files or data off the

> MASTER and put it on the SLAVE. IF the slave has insuficient space, as you

> now have that data saved, DELETE the SLAVE drive files, and transfer what

> ever files you need to it. Make sure those deleted files aren't taking up

> space by being stored in the Recycle Bin.

>

> 4. IF you successfully retreive that data or files, you will need to

> determine what you intend to use that former Microtime OS disk for in the

> future.

>

> 5. IF SAFE MODE fails, attempt to start in pure DOS with either a boot

> EBD/recovery floppy [preferred] or from the Windows Menu [Command Prompt

> Only]. Type - fdisk /status - and post what it found.

>

> | At any rate, 'My Computer' did not show this HD in the list of Disk

> Drives.

> | I wish there would be a way, but, I am glad that most of my data has been

> | recovered.

> | Thank you for all the suggestions.

> | ***

>

> Look above, and try that to see if that works, if not, we can attempt to

> make some modifications to the VAIO BIOS HD settings OR we can use some

> other recovery techniques. For that we will need the model number of the

> Microtime computer and/or the motherboard make and model/number so we can

> see what the BIOS was.

>

> | > Checking for that drive shows it is actually a Hitachi drive DeskStar

> 16GP:

> | > http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/products/Deskstar_16GP

> | > Check those Hitachi jumpers!

> | >

> | > You can also try the drive fitness test, but do use no destructive

> tests

> | > until you recover the data:

> | > http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT

> | > http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/downloads/dft32_v412_b01.EXE Windows

March 10, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

****

dadiOH, ?to the end connector, where the DVD is normally placed, I

connected the Microtime’s Primary Master, with the jumper in place, and in

any combination ....other drives in or disconnected (CD- ROM, or ZIP

250)..... the System, while booting, would detect it as the Secondary Master,

but it would not be available. I also connected it to the other connector on

the cable, normally for the CD_ROM. Same results. Although detected while

booting, MS Explorer/My Computer, would not show it the list of available

Drives, in spite of its presence in the list of Storage/Physical Devices

created by the MSI.EXE Software.

See my reply to “MEB”suggestions to disconnect the Sony’s Master Disk and

connect the Microtime’s Master in its place. Surprisingly, it did work and I

was able to recover the desired Data. Thanks all for your replies and

valuable suggestions. My feeling is that I have learned a lot during this

process.

***

"dadiOH" wrote:

> dadiOH wrote:

> > BAP wrote:

>

> >> Any possibility that things might work out better if I were

> >> to remove the DVD Disk Drive from the Sony and hook that Master HD

> >> to the vacant cable connection?

> >> Thank you!

> >> ***

> >

> > I would think so, try it. But determine which drive -CD or DVD -

> > is master and replace whichever is. If you are in doubt about

> > which is master/slave, SIW will tell you...

> > http://www.gtopala.com/

> >

> > If you don't want to add still another program (it's a good one)

> > then assume the optical drive at the end of the ribbon cable is

> > Master and replace it.

>

> BTW, you need not physically remove the optical drive(s) from the

> computer, merely disconnect the ribbon and power cables when the

> machine is off. By the same tolen, you do not need to physically

> place the hard drive into a drive tray, just connect the power and

> ribbon cables after placing the drive wherever the cables can reach.

>

> If you do what I suggest, I have no idea what the drive letter will be

> in your setup so use explorer to browse your drives. If for some

> reason it does NOT show up in explorer, power down the computer and

> attach the drive you want to read to the other terminal on the ribbon

> cable.

>

****

> --

>

> dadiOH

> ____________________________

>

> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...

> ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from

> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.

> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

>

March 10, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

TOP POSTED: Final results: read below for outcome of Microtime OS disk

recovery.

I must say I am somewhat surprised, but I admit I did have crossed fingers,

glad you now have both disks recovered.

"BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:CFF20239-7531-4D2B-B8C6-39AE98452EB2@microsoft.com...

|

| "MEB" wrote:

|

| >

| > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

| > news:88CE8CC8-8EBE-4294-B7BE-6B90C62FCA38@microsoft.com...

| > |

| > | "MEB" wrote:

| > |

| > | >

| > | > "BAP" <BAP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

| > | > news:1A8A6A60-BABD-4A6F-BF4C-EA33D7E79643@microsoft.com...

| > | > | The start of this new Post regarding the 'Computer Failure' Post

was

| > | > | suggested by "MEB", and rightly so, as the that earlier Post was

| > creating

| > | > | some confusion.

| > | > |

| > | > | As was discussed in the 'Computer Failure' Post, the Microtime

| > Computer,

| > | > | that I have been using for several years, has failed and I find it

| > rather

| > | > | difficult to get it operational, again. There is a Primary Master

and

| > a

| > | > | Secondary Master HD's installed in it. There are folders in both

that

| > have

| > | > | Data that I would like to recover. A more recent Computer, a Sony

| > VAIO,

| > | > | that I am currently using, appears to have all that I would need

to

| > | > connect

| > | > | those HD's and recover the desired Data and back up the same, if

| > desired,

| > | > | on CD's or Iomega Zip 250 MB Disks. The only obstacle is of

possible

| > | > | compatibility issues.

| >

| > {DELETED MATERIALS CONTAIN VAIO IFORMATION-

| > (refer to the post containing it for reference

| >

| > | > | Hopefully, this will mean something to you, "MEB" or anyone else

able

| > to

| > | > help.

| > | > | Thank you in advance for any reply!

| > | >

| > | > One issue you failed to mention, which may or will be an issue, is

that

| > the

| > | > other target drive [OS disk} had to be started in the other system

by

| > using

| > | > a boot disk or other work around.

| > | ****

| > | ?"MEB", that was not the case. Early on, there was nothing wrong with

the

| > | booting cycle, unless I

| > | needed or wanted to start with a Boot Disk. If I did that and inserted

the

| > | Boot Disk before

| > | starting the booting cycle, at the Dos Prompt I would find myself in

the

| > | Primary Slave HD. The

| > | Master HD would not be available. This surfaced when I replaced the

| > original

| > | HD, 10 GB in size,

| > | with a Maxtor with 40 GB. The MAX-BLAST software, that came with the

| > Maxtor

| > | HD, created

| > | an overlay. As mentioned, in a rather old post, few years back, in

order

| > | to boot from a Boot

| > | Disk properly, I had to break the progress of booting with a CTRL Key

and

| > | opt to boot from the

| > | Boot Disk that had to be inserted at that time.

| > | ***

| >

| > AAAAAh, thanks for clarifying, the MAXTOR drive contains a drive

overlay -

| > RE: that is the Microtime OS disk which you mentioned in the other

postings,

| > which is not recognized when placed into other computers.

| >

| > DRIVE OVERLAY programs use the computer's BIOS translation and access

| > routines when the algorythms are used to create and then use the overlay

| > with the manufacturer's tools.

| > This can even affect whether the hidden partition for the overlay

| > translation is addressed properly. Overlays are not Plug and Play,

changing

| > to meet differring BIOS needs and translations, PARTICULARLY as the

drive

| > adapter chip may interact with the BIOS in a different fashion, such as

when

| > the drive IS supported within the BIOS verses when the overlay was need

to

| > use the drive in an unsupportive BIOS and/or OS.

| > REMEMBER THIS: A different BIOS on another computer, OR *change within

the

| > original BIOS* related to that hard drive, will likely change how that

| > overlay addresses the drive.

| >

| > |

| > | But we can work from this {BTW, good

| > | > information to work from, thanks}. I had also created a new posting

for

| > your

| > | > VAIO attempt, which outlines what had been found to that point *

Sony

| > | > VAIO - WinME - hard drive usage and data recovery *. But we can work

| > from

| > | > here with this new information, as long as everyone reviews the

other

| > | > postings as well so redundant suggestions aren't provided.

| > | >

| > |

| > | > I also created two new posts for your other computers:

| > | > Risys running Win31 - 98SE disk recovery

| > | > Microtime - Win98SE - computer diagnostics and repair

| > | >

| > | > There is a small program which might provide some useful

information

| > | > provided by MiTeC:

| > | > http://www.mitec.cz/Downloads/msi.zip - 782K - system information -

goto

| > | > Storage > Physical Devices for drive identification

| > | > http://www.mitec.cz/ - main page with tools

| >

| > The above provides lots of information, without the necessity of an

| > installation of another bloated Windows program.

| >

| > | >

| > | > You can likely go ahead and try to connect the DATA drive to the

VAIO

| > as it

| > | > may already configured as SLAVE *IF* it was on the same cable as the

| > | > other/OS drive in the Microtime. Some info here:

| > | >

| >

http://support.gateway.com/support/manlib/cmponts/harddriv/8505896/05896.htm

| > | >

| > | > If the drive works, pull the data off.

| > | >

| > | ****

| > | ?"MEB", I did that and it worked, although the there was some

confusion

| > | about the ID of the Disks shown by 'My Computer'. Normally, Disk C:

is

| > the

| > | Partition 0 of the Primary Master - D: Partition 1 - E: DVD - F:

CD_ROM -

| > G:

| > | Zip Drive.

| >

| > Did you forget that I had advised of that in the prior post/thread? Let

me

| > repost so its in this discussion:

| > - - - PRIOR POST - - - -

| > | MEB:

| > | Here are potential issues when connecting a drive to the secondary

| > | connector on IDE0/channel1 - IRQ 14 [use SYSTEM > Device Manager >

Hard

| > Disk

| > | Controllers > Primary IDE Controller > settings and resources to

view].:

| > | *****

| > | BAP

| > | Sorry, I can't seem to find my way around to get to that pane.

| > |

| > | MEB - you are running ME which will have that in a different area.

| > |

| > | ***

| > |

| > | MEB:

| > | 1. The present drive [apparently 60 gig] is partitioned with C {the

| > primary

| > | boot partition} as a

| > | 15.5 gig drive, adding another drive would move the second partition

| > | presently being seen as the

| > | 41.6 gig drive D to drive E. The new hard drive would have to be

| > configured

| > | as a slave and the

| > | first hard drive as master with their jumpers or errors and potential

disk

| > | corruption could occur.

| > | There could also be a hidden partition involved for SONY specific

recovery

| > | or other, so it may be

| > | larger [an 80 gig drive perhaps, though that won't presently affect

what

| > we

| > | are discussing], what

| > | is the actual model and make of that drive?

| > | There MAY potentially be a hard drive conflict if the drives are not

| > | compatible. What are the two drive's makes and models?

| > |

| > | 2. The two drives on the second channel [CD and DVD] will be moved to

| > drive

| > | F and G, but only IF the OS has not had its drives limited to only see

| > | drives up to drive F: limited by either the driver settings, system

| > | settings, or something like TweakUI which modified the registry or an

| > | inclusion in the system.ini or config.sys [lastdrive=*]. If this is

the

| > | case, the lost/un-recognized drive will still cause errors even though

it

| > is

| > | not listed in Windows, it is still holding memory and CMOS/BIOS

addressing

| > | which Windows may try to assign to other needs, or may cause

conflicting

| > | system device issues..

| > |

| > | 3. The Iomega drive adds potential issues to the mix if it has been

set to

| > | always use some specific drive letter or IRQ, and/or if [as sometimes

| > | happens] it is incompatible with this older drive you are attempting

to

| > | access.

| > |

| > | 4. A drive overlay may be part of the issue, but beyond that, we may

also

| > be

| > | running across a disk or disks which have had Drive Space or Double

Space

| > | [or another drive compressor] used.

| > |

| > ------ END POST FROM OTHER DISCUSSIONS ^^^

| >

| > | With the Microtime Primary Slave in place, C: was still Sony's HD

Primary

| > | Master Partition 0 - D: the Microtime's Disk - E: Partition 1 of

Sony -

| > G:

| > | was showing as the ZIP disk. However, if I inserted a CD in the CD_ROM

| > drive,

| > | G became the CD_ROM Disk - F:, showing as removable Disk, was, in

effect,

| > | the ZIP Drive.

| >

| > This is exactly as I had advised.

| > This also indicates that the ZIP disk has been *assigned* a drive

letter.

| >

| > | No matter, 'though, as I was able to copy the contents of the

Microtime's

| > | Primary Slave HD.

| >

| > *STEP 1 - SUCCESS* accomplished: now that AUTO had been set in the

BIOS,

| > the Microtime DATA/storage disk has been recovered.

| >

| > | All my steps taken, to configure the Microtime's Primary Master and

make

| > it

| > | a Slave, did not succeed. The configuration shown on the HD about the

| > jumper

| > | positions did not work. However, the system detected that HD as a

Primary

| > | Slave.

| > | This was shown: (besides other info)

| > | Primary Master Disk: 61492 MB UDMA 5

| > | Orimary Slave Disk: 30750 MB UDMA 5

| > | Secondary Master Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

| > | Secondary Slave Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

| >

| > OKAY, let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

| >

| > The disk is a MAXTOR - WHAT {model/number}?

| >

| > |

| > | Without the Microtime's HD connected, this was shown:

| > | Primary Master Disk: 61492 MB UDMA 5

| > | Orimary Slave Disk: None

| > | Secondary Master Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

| > | Secondary Slave Disk: CD-ROM UDMA 2

| > |

| > | It was bothersome to see that the size of the Microtime's HD did not

| > appear

| > | to have the size that I thought it should have. I will check further

into

| > | that.

| >

| > PLEASE wait until we can determine how to address the MAXTOR disk in

this

| > new BIOS. Obviously the BIOS has built-in support, so to fudge the disk

and

| > attempt to access properly, we MAY need to attempt to manually set the

BIOS

| > to mimic what the Microtime would have used AND that drive will need

some

| > adjustments to its jumpers {configure as SLAVE} and its MBR/partition

table

| > {its presently configured with a hidden overlay partition AND as a BOOT

| > disk}.

| > HOWEVER, finish reading this post before responding.

| >

| > *IF* there's nothing you need from that drive, then use MAXTOR's [now

| > SEAGATE] disk tool to remove the overlay and the disk will be usable in

ALL

| > BIOSes which support it natively. DO NOT attempt to use fdisk and format

to

| > remove the overlay and its partition.

| >

| > *IF* you want to recover that dsk:

| >

| > 1. REMOVE the present SONY VAIO master disk or unhook the ribbon AND

power

| > cabling. Connect the ribbon and power to the Microtime MAXTOR mater/OS

disk,

| > leaving it as MASTER; have the DATA Microtime hard drive configured as

| > SLAVE, connected to the same ribbon. It would be best to disconnect the

ZIP

| > drive, and the CD and DVD for this part of the recovery attempt, as

well, as

| > they were not part of the prior setup on the Microtime. To disable the

CD

| > and DVD, disconnect their power, and the ribbon from the motherboard

{noting

| > where the color indicator/stripe was in relation to the MB connector}

| >

| ****

| ?I should have concentrated on the options you presented, 2, 3, 4 and 5

| that follow. Instead I got excited about the first option and what it was

| saying.

| Although sort of apprehensive about what I was doing, the suggested scheme

| of removing Sony's Primary Master HD and put in its place the Microtime's

| Primary. Master HD, brought good results. I had the ZIP, CD_ROM and the

DVD

| disconnected. There were several instances, during the booting cycle,

where

| warnings popped out that new hardware had been found and the system wanted

to

| find the best ways to deal with them and/or asked for the W98 installation

| Disk. I allowed some events to

| happen, then, rather fearful, I started canceling the suggested steps or

| closing the dialog boxes. Eventually, it did complete the booting process

and

| the HD became available, along with the same layout of the Desktop as the

| Microtime.

| All the folders and data were available.

| I powered it down reconnected all the disconnected Drives and

re-connected

| the

| companion Primary Slave. I re-booted (this time without warnings) and

| copied the desired Data from the Master to the Slave.

| Once done, I replaced the Primary Master with the Sony's Master and copied

| the Data from the Microtime's Slave to the Sony's second Partition. All

came

| out well.

| Later, I removed the Microtime's Primary Slave and closed up the tower of

| the Sony,

| All is back to normal. Hopefully, the warning boxes and the allowed steps

| did not create problems that may pop up in time.

| I will plan on backing up all that I want on CD's.

| Thank you, "MEB", for all your help!

| Thank you to all those who contributed to this issue!

| ***

OKAY then [sigh of relief], done issues for hard drive recoveries... Don't

worry about issues in the Millennium, all changes were made to the 98 disk

[except the addition of the temporary secondary hard drive, and BIOS/CMOS

change to auto detect, so that leaves just the CD DVD issue(s).

|

| > 2. Attempt to boot the computer into SAFE MODE. Do NOT use NORMAL

Startup as

| > that will attempt to reconfigure the Windows system which may not be

| > successful.

| > In Safe Mode, the disks will be using DOS compatibility mode, and the

MASTER

| > should have used the Drive Overlay upon initial boot.

| >

| > 3. IF there is a successful SAFE MODE boot, pull any files or data off

the

| > MASTER and put it on the SLAVE. IF the slave has insuficient space, as

you

| > now have that data saved, DELETE the SLAVE drive files, and transfer

what

| > ever files you need to it. Make sure those deleted files aren't taking

up

| > space by being stored in the Recycle Bin.

| >

| > 4. IF you successfully retreive that data or files, you will need to

| > determine what you intend to use that former Microtime OS disk for in

the

| > future.

| >

| > 5. IF SAFE MODE fails, attempt to start in pure DOS with either a boot

| > EBD/recovery floppy [preferred] or from the Windows Menu [Command Prompt

| > Only]. Type - fdisk /status - and post what it found.

| >

| > | At any rate, 'My Computer' did not show this HD in the list of Disk

| > Drives.

| > | I wish there would be a way, but, I am glad that most of my data has

been

| > | recovered.

| > | Thank you for all the suggestions.

| > | ***

| >

| > Look above, and try that to see if that works, if not, we can attempt

to

| > make some modifications to the VAIO BIOS HD settings OR we can use some

| > other recovery techniques. For that we will need the model number of the

| > Microtime computer and/or the motherboard make and model/number so we

can

| > see what the BIOS was.

| >

| > | > Checking for that drive shows it is actually a Hitachi drive

DeskStar

| > 16GP:

| > | > http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/products/Deskstar_16GP

| > | > Check those Hitachi jumpers!

| > | >

| > | > You can also try the drive fitness test, but do use no destructive

| > tests

| > | > until you recover the data:

| > | > http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT

| > | > http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/downloads/dft32_v412_b01.EXE Windows

--

MEB

http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

_________

March 10, 2008

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

Re: ?Disk Recovery (RE: Computer Failure )

BAP wrote:

> See my reply to "MEB"suggestions to disconnect the Sony's Master

> Disk and connect the Microtime's Master in its place. Surprisingly,

> it did work and I was able to recover the desired Data.

YAAAYYYY!!

--

dadiOH

____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...

....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from

LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.

Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

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