Its War!

[Guest PD43]

Re: Its War!

 

b11_ <b11@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>So if I use a library desktop computer, which probably has special software

>installed, the administrator can read and/or capture thre screen I am

>watching but if I use a notebook computer, which has no special software

>installed, the administrator can not see nor capture the screen I am watching

>but could monitor which websites I visit. Is that correct?

>_________________________________________________________________

>

>"b11_" wrote:

>

>> I use a library computer that is part of a LAN. The System Administrator uses

>> WEBSENSE software and probably intermittantly watches and captures the screen

>> I am watching. The library will soon have WiFi so if I used a notebook

>> computer with WiFi capability in the library to access the library LAN, can

>> he still watch and capture the screen I am watching?

 

Why are you talking to yourself?? I think more than your online

activity needs monitoring.

[Guest PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Re: Its War!

 

Please quote the message(s) to which you're replying in your replies.

 

b11_ wrote:

> So if I use a library desktop computer, which probably has special

> software

> installed, the administrator can read and/or capture thre screen I am

> watching but if I use a notebook computer, which has no special software

> installed, the administrator can not see nor capture the screen I am

> watching but could monitor which websites I visit. Is that correct?

> _________________________________________________________________

>

> "b11_" wrote:

>

>> I use a library computer that is part of a LAN. The System Administrator

>> uses WEBSENSE software and probably intermittantly watches and captures

>> the screen I am watching. The library will soon have WiFi so if I used a

>> notebook computer with WiFi capability in the library to access the

>> library LAN, can he still watch and capture the screen I am watching?

[Guest PD43]

Re: Its War!

 

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote:

>Please quote the message(s) to which you're replying in your replies.

 

he did

[Guest Bob I]

Re: Its War!

 

There is no expectation of privacy in a public library, you are after

all, in a public place, using public property.

 

b11_ wrote:

> I am a private citizen and do not work for the library. I am certain that as

> I was proof-reading the original post I posted here, the screen was captured.

> Does the administrator have the right to read and capture my newsgroup posts?

> ___________________________________________________________

> "HeyBub" wrote:

>

>

>>b11_ wrote:

>>

>>>The library desktop computer I am now using probably has special

>>>software installed on it.

>>>____________________________________________________________________

>>>

>>>"b11_" wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>>>I use a library computer that is part of a LAN. The System

>>>>Administrator uses WEBSENSE software and probably intermittantly

>>>>watches and captures the screen I am watching. The library will soon

>>>>have WiFi so if I used a notebook computer with WiFi capability in

>>>>the library to access the library LAN, can he still watch and

>>>>capture the screen I am watching?

>>

>>If you're not doing anything inappropriate, you have nothing to worry about.

>>

>>If you are up to no good, its probably not the first time and the paperwork

>>is already in the pipeline...

>>

>>

>>

[Guest HeyBub]

Re: Its War!

 

b11_ wrote:

> I am a private citizen and do not work for the library. I am certain

> that as I was proof-reading the original post I posted here, the

> screen was captured. Does the administrator have the right to read

> and capture my newsgroup posts?

 

Certainly.

 

The administrator can come stand behind you and read over your shoulder if

he wants to do so. If you don't like it, you can leave.

 

There is no "right" to privacy - unless you're doing someting sexual.

[Guest PD43]

Re: Its War!

 

Bob I <birelan@yahoo.com> wrote:

>There is no expectation of privacy in a public library, you are after

>all, in a public place, using public property.

 

I don't think he is listening to anyone on this. For some reason he

needs public access to the Internet knowing that what he is doing is

totally private.

 

I can't think of why someone might need that security unless he/she is

a pedophile or is addicted to child porn.

[Guest HeyBub]

Re: Its War!

 

b11_ wrote:

> So if I use a library desktop computer, which probably has special

> software installed, the administrator can read and/or capture thre

> screen I am watching but if I use a notebook computer, which has no

> special software installed, the administrator can not see nor capture

> the screen I am watching but could monitor which websites I visit. Is

> that correct?

> _________________________________________________________________

 

Yes. With enough effort - or the right software - the administrator can also

divine what you typed.

 

Also, as I already pointed out, the administrator can read what you type by

looking over your shoulder.

 

If you're trying to send: "There's a fire at the travel agency," or "Wounds

my heart with a monotonous languor," you'd better find a more secure method.

[Guest Bob I]

Re: Its War!

 

 

 

HeyBub wrote:

> b11_ wrote:

>

>>I am a private citizen and do not work for the library. I am certain

>>that as I was proof-reading the original post I posted here, the

>>screen was captured. Does the administrator have the right to read

>>and capture my newsgroup posts?

>

>

> Certainly.

>

> The administrator can come stand behind you and read over your shoulder if

> he wants to do so. If you don't like it, you can leave.

>

> There is no "right" to privacy - unless you're doing someting sexual.

>

 

Doing THAT in a public library would result in relatively quick

incarceration!

[Guest HeyBub]

Re: Its War!

 

Bob I wrote:

>> The administrator can come stand behind you and read over your

>> shoulder if he wants to do so. If you don't like it, you can leave.

>>

>> There is no "right" to privacy - unless you're doing someting sexual.

>>

>

> Doing THAT in a public library would result in relatively quick

> incarceration!

 

Policeman: "Did you call about a man exposing himself?"

Librarian: "Yes, I did. He played 'Flog the Log' right over there at the

public computer in the children's section."

Policeman: "Do you know who it was?"

Librarian: "Yes, but I'm not going to tell you."

Policeman: "(??) Why is that?"

Librarian: "Because we respect the 1st Amendment and the privacy of our

patrons."

Policeman: "(!!) Well, what CAN you tell us?"

Librarian: "If you want any information from us, you'll have to get a

warrant!"

[Guest Bob I]

Re: Its War!

 

 

 

HeyBub wrote:

> Bob I wrote:

>

>>>The administrator can come stand behind you and read over your

>>>shoulder if he wants to do so. If you don't like it, you can leave.

>>>

>>>There is no "right" to privacy - unless you're doing someting sexual.

>>>

>>

>>Doing THAT in a public library would result in relatively quick

>>incarceration!

>

>

> Policeman: "Did you call about a man exposing himself?"

> Librarian: "Yes, I did. He played 'Flog the Log' right over there at the

> public computer in the children's section."

> Policeman: "Do you know who it was?"

> Librarian: "Yes, but I'm not going to tell you."

> Policeman: "(??) Why is that?"

> Librarian: "Because we respect the 1st Amendment and the privacy of our

> patrons."

> Policeman: "(!!) Well, what CAN you tell us?"

> Librarian: "If you want any information from us, you'll have to get a

> warrant!"

>

 

Policeman: So would you like to file a false police report instead?

[Guest C.Joseph S. Drayton]

Re: Its War!

 

b11_ wrote:

>So if I use a library desktop computer, which probably has special

>software installed, the administrator can read and/or capture thre

>screen I am watching but if I use a notebook computer, which has no

>special software installed, the administrator can not see nor capture

>the screen I am watching but could monitor which websites I visit. Is

>that correct?

>_________________________________________________________________

>

>"b11_" wrote:

>

>> I use a library computer that is part of a LAN. The System

>>Administrator uses WEBSENSE software and probably intermittantly

>>watches and captures the screen I am watching. The library will

>>soon have WiFi so if I used a notebook computer with WiFi

>>capability in the library to access the library LAN, can he still

>>watch and capture the screen I am watching?

 

As I said earlier, there are a number of issues involved. I know at the

Public Library in Seattle, if you use one of their terminals when you

sign up to use it, they state that they have the right to monitor the

terminal. Where-as their wi-fi has no warning when you access it. So at

the Seattle Library yes they can legally watch what you do on their

terminals. What you do on your computer via wi-fi they can monitor, but

their doing so would be illegal.

 

The next problem of course is that how could you PROVE that they were

monitoring your network traffic over wi-fi.

 

There are other states like Connecticut that say that a network owned

by the state or municipal government can monitor all network traffic on

their network. They do not need to post notification ofd such

monitoring policy and it is not considered to be an invasion of privacy

unless they share the information with a person or entity outside of

the state or municipal government agency in question.

 

The bottom line is that their are way to many gray areas involved.

Until there is a clear definition of what 'expectation of privacy is'

and what constitutes violation of privacy. Again its gray seeing the

data some claim is not an invasion, making use of or disseminating that

information makes it an invasion of privacy.

 

The best rule of thumb is if it is really private don't use a public,

corporate or government network. Even using a friends network in some

states allows the friend to monitor their private network without

letting you know.

 

--

Sincerely,

C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

 

CSD Computer Services

Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/

E-mail: csdcs@tlerma.com

[Guest stanley]

Re: Its War!

 

 

::If you are using your personal laptop in a library or at work and your

internet activity is tracked, who cares? Even if you connected from your

personal office, if its not a company computer all they can tell is that

a such and such non-network laptop visited such and such sites at such

and such time. They can’t identify you, the location, or anything

else..::

 

::..or am I wrong?::

 

 

--

stanley

[Guest C.Joseph S. Drayton]

Re: Its War!

 

stanley wrote:

>

>::If you are using your personal laptop in a library or at work and

>your internet activity is tracked, who cares? Even if you connected

>from your personal office, if its not a company computer all they can

>tell is that a such and such non-network laptop visited such and such

>sites at such and such time. They can�t identify you, the location,

>or anything else..::

>

>::..or am I wrong?::

 

Hi Stanley,

 

Your wi-fi card has what is called a MAC address, a 'theoretically'

unique identifier for the wi-fi card in your machine (of course there

are now programs that allow you to 'fake' your MAC address).

 

When you connect to the router (whether physically or through wi-fi),

your MAC address is give to the router.

 

So yes, if you don't fake your MAC address, your traffic can be

tracked, and tied directly to your machine.

 

I even heard of a case where a guy was framed. The smart-aleck got a

hold of his victims MAC address. He then faked the MAC address on his

laptop and accessed some data he wasn't supposed to. The victim lost

his job because the company he worked for said that it was the victims

computer that had accessed the files.

 

--

 

Sincerely,

C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

 

CSD Computer Services

Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/

E-mail: csdcs@tlerma.com

[Guest stanley]

Re: Its War!

 

 

That would be a mean trick, to get the MAC address of someone and cause

them all sorts of trouble!

 

But if its a personal laptop, one you bought and that was not issued by

work, even if your computer's MAC address is tracked, how could they

track that to you? There's no national database linking computer owners

to their MAC address!

 

What am I missing?

 

 

--

stanley

[Guest PD43]

Re: Its War!

 

stanley <ihazwell@hotmail.com> wrote:

>What am I missing?

 

You are missing a quote of the message you are replying to, Stanley.

 

Don't let it happen again.

[Guest C.Joseph S. Drayton]

Re: Its War!

 

stanley wrote:

>

>That would be a mean trick, to get the MAC address of someone and

>cause them all sorts of trouble!

>

>But if its a personal laptop, one you bought and that was not issued

>by work, even if your computer's MAC address is tracked, how could

>they track that to you? There's no national database linking computer

>owners to their MAC address!

>

>What am I missing?

 

Most companies that use wi-fi use MAC authentication. In this case the

victim had given the IT department his MAC address so that he could use

the network. So yes IT knew who the MAC address belonged to.

 

MAC address & encryption (either WEP or WPA) is about about the most

security you can get with wi-fi. Of course either or both is beatable,

but if you need to have people in the building moving around with their

laptop that's about all you can do.

 

--

 

Sincerely,

C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

 

CSD Computer Services

Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/

E-mail: csdcs@tlerma.com

[Guest stanley]

Re: Its War!

 

 

C.Joseph S. Drayton;948242 Wrote:

>

> Most companies that use wi-fi use MAC authentication. In this case the

> victim had given the IT department his MAC address so that he could use

> the network. So yes IT knew who the MAC address belonged to.

>

> MAC address & encryption (either WEP or WPA) is about about the most

> security you can get with wi-fi. Of course either or both is beatable,

> but if you need to have people in the building moving around with their

> laptop that's about all you can do.

 

Ok, but many libraries and businesses don't require this type of

registration. At work for instance I have a personal laptop that I

physically plug in and access the internet on (but without actually

being part of the network). I use my own machine because I do most of

my work at home, and as an independent contractor they won't give me a

company laptop! But I've never "registered" it with anyone, so even if

they track the internet usage they have no idea its mine. At least

thats my assumption unless they have some magic!

 

 

--

stanley

[Guest C.Joseph S. Drayton]

Re: Its War!

 

stanley wrote:

>

>C.Joseph S. Drayton;948242 Wrote:

>>

>> Most companies that use wi-fi use MAC authentication. In this case

>>the victim had given the IT department his MAC address so that he

>>could use the network. So yes IT knew who the MAC address belonged

>>to.

>> MAC address & encryption (either WEP or WPA) is about about the

>>most security you can get with wi-fi. Of course either or both is

>>beatable, but if you need to have people in the building moving

>>around with their laptop that's about all you can do.

>

>Ok, but many libraries and businesses don't require this type of

>registration. At work for instance I have a personal laptop that I

>physically plug in and access the internet on (but without actually

>being part of the network). I use my own machine because I do most of

>my work at home, and as an independent contractor they won't give me a

>company laptop! But I've never "registered" it with anyone, so even if

>they track the internet usage they have no idea its mine. At least

>thats my assumption unless they have some magic!

 

Hate to tell you Stanley, but that may not be the case. If your

plugging the laptop in your office, then they probably have your MAC

address since most big companies use static IPs for each office. So

they would know where the laptop was plugged in. Their assumption would

be that no one should be hooking into your office without your

permission. Once they have your MAC address, they could then authorize

it to use in other sections of the building.

 

Even if they used dynamic IPs, they could still know it was you. You

have to login to the network, and the router knows which IP is doing

the logging in. They could then tie the MAC address attached to the IP

that is logging in to you.

 

Then as I said once they have your MAC address, no matter where you are

on the LAN, they would know it was your machine.

 

--

 

Sincerely,

C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

 

CSD Computer Services

Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/

E-mail: csdcs@tlerma.com

[Guest stanley]

Re: Its War!

 

 

C.Joseph S. Drayton;949678 Wrote:

>

> Hate to tell you Stanley, but that may not be the case. If your

> plugging the laptop in your office, then they probably have your MAC

> address since most big companies use static IPs for each office. So

> they would know where the laptop was plugged in. Their assumption would

> be that no one should be hooking into your office without your

> permission. Once they have your MAC address, they could then authorize

> it to use in other sections of the building.

>

> Even if they used dynamic IPs, they could still know it was you. You

> have to login to the network, and the router knows which IP is doing

> the logging in. They could then tie the MAC address attached to the IP

> that is logging in to you.

>

> Then as I said once they have your MAC address, no matter where you are

> on the LAN, they would know it was your machine.

 

 

Thanks for all the clarification!

 

But when I plug my laptop in, and get on the internet, I don’t have to

first login! I just plug in and that’s it.

 

Are you saying though that the server knows the location within the

building where I am “plugging in” even if it this does not involve

actually logging in to the network?

 

 

--

stanley

[Guest C.Joseph S. Drayton]

Re: Its War!

 

stanley wrote:

>

>C.Joseph S. Drayton;949678 Wrote:

>>

>> Hate to tell you Stanley, but that may not be the case. If your

>> plugging the laptop in your office, then they probably have your

>>MAC address since most big companies use static IPs for each

>>office. So they would know where the laptop was plugged in. Their

>>assumption would be that no one should be hooking into your office

>>without your permission. Once they have your MAC address, they

>>could then authorize it to use in other sections of the building.

>>

>> Even if they used dynamic IPs, they could still know it was you.

>>You have to login to the network, and the router knows which IP is

>>doing the logging in. They could then tie the MAC address attached

>>to the IP that is logging in to you.

>>

>> Then as I said once they have your MAC address, no matter where

>>you are on the LAN, they would know it was your machine.

>

>

>Thanks for all the clarification!

>

>But when I plug my laptop in, and get on the internet, I don�t have to

>first login! I just plug in and that�s it.

>

>Are you saying though that the server knows the location within the

>building where I am �plugging in� even if it this does not involve

>actually logging in to the network?

 

Each office has an IP for each of the Ethernet ports. So yes, they know

which port is doing what. Then tying a MAC address to port is childs

play. Once they have that MAC address, even if you move to another

ethernet jack in the building, they would know that it is your

computer. The key is that unless you fake your MAC address, it can be

tied to your computer. And once they have your MAC address they will

always no where you are plugging in, in the building.

 

At one point or another, assuming your IT department takes network

security seriously, they have tied your MAC address to you. If they

simply left those jacks in the office available to anybody with a

laptop, their security would be fairly lax. Even if you can only log

into the router for Internet, the mere fact that you can get to their

router would put them at risk since you could theoretically hijack

their router.

 

Good network security means that IT always knows what computer is

connected to the network.

 

--

 

Sincerely,

C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

 

CSD Computer Services

Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/

E-mail: csdcs@tlerma.com

[Guest stanley]

Re: Its War!

 

 

C.Joseph S. Drayton;950202 Wrote:

> Each office has an IP for each of the Ethernet ports. So yes, they know

> which port is doing what. Then tying a MAC address to port is childs

> play. Once they have that MAC address, even if you move to another

> ethernet jack in the building, they would know that it is your

> computer. The key is that unless you fake your MAC address, it can be

> tied to your computer. And once they have your MAC address they will

> always no where you are plugging in, in the building.

>

> At one point or another, assuming your IT department takes network

> security seriously, they have tied your MAC address to you. If they

> simply left those jacks in the office available to anybody with a

> laptop, their security would be fairly lax. Even if you can only log

> into the router for Internet, the mere fact that you can get to their

> router would put them at risk since you could theoretically hijack

> their router.

>

> Good network security means that IT always knows what computer is

> connected to the network.

 

Thanks for all that information, which I'm sure is all very basic for

you!

 

I did not know that each Ethernet port has a unique address-- it seemed

like just another jack in the wall like a phone jack. I guess not! So

all my internet usage can be tracked to my office and hence to me. I'm

an independent contractor and bill based on services not by salary, so

they have no reason to track my time usage, but still, thats

interesting that they could track every visit to the sports pages to me

directly if they wanted to!

 

 

--

stanley

[Guest Frank-FL]

Re: Its War!

 

 

"stanley" <ihazwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:stanley.36ecjq@no-mx.tabletquestions.com...

>

> C.Joseph S. Drayton;950202 Wrote:

>> Each office has an IP for each of the Ethernet ports. So yes, they know

>> which port is doing what. Then tying a MAC address to port is childs

>> play. Once they have that MAC address, even if you move to another

>> ethernet jack in the building, they would know that it is your

>> computer. The key is that unless you fake your MAC address, it can be

>> tied to your computer. And once they have your MAC address they will

>> always no where you are plugging in, in the building.

>>

>> At one point or another, assuming your IT department takes network

>> security seriously, they have tied your MAC address to you. If they

>> simply left those jacks in the office available to anybody with a

>> laptop, their security would be fairly lax. Even if you can only log

>> into the router for Internet, the mere fact that you can get to their

>> router would put them at risk since you could theoretically hijack

>> their router.

>>

>> Good network security means that IT always knows what computer is

>> connected to the network.

>

> Thanks for all that information, which I'm sure is all very basic for

> you!

>

> I did not know that each Ethernet port has a unique address-- it seemed

> like just another jack in the wall like a phone jack. I guess not! So

> all my internet usage can be tracked to my office and hence to me. I'm

> an independent contractor and bill based on services not by salary, so

> they have no reason to track my time usage, but still, thats

> interesting that they could track every visit to the sports pages to me

> directly if they wanted to!

 

It would be interesting to know how anyone or anything could assign an

IP address to a hole in the wall.

[Guest C.Joseph S. Drayton]

Re: Its War!

 

stanley wrote:

>

>C.Joseph S. Drayton;950202 Wrote:

>> Each office has an IP for each of the Ethernet ports. So yes,

>>they know which port is doing what. Then tying a MAC address to

>>port is childs play. Once they have that MAC address, even if you

>>move to another ethernet jack in the building, they would know

>>that it is your computer. The key is that unless you fake your MAC

>>address, it can be tied to your computer. And once they have your

>>MAC address they will always no where you are plugging in, in the

>>building.

>> At one point or another, assuming your IT department takes network

>> security seriously, they have tied your MAC address to you. If they

>> simply left those jacks in the office available to anybody with a

>> laptop, their security would be fairly lax. Even if you can only

>>log into the router for Internet, the mere fact that you can get

>>to their router would put them at risk since you could

>>theoretically hijack their router.

>>

>> Good network security means that IT always knows what computer is

>> connected to the network.

>

>Thanks for all that information, which I'm sure is all very basic for

>you!

>

>I did not know that each Ethernet port has a unique address-- it

>seemed like just another jack in the wall like a phone jack. I guess

>not! So all my internet usage can be tracked to my office and hence

>to me. I'm an independent contractor and bill based on services not

>by salary, so they have no reason to track my time usage, but still,

>thats interesting that they could track every visit to the sports

>pages to me directly if they wanted to!

 

Hi Stanley,

 

The reason each port in the office has its own IP is that if the router

needs to know where to send the packets that it is receiving. If it

didn't know, then it would have to send every packet to every machine

and ask the machine on that port 'Does this packet belong to you?'.

 

Different companies handle security differently. So how sophisticated

their access and monitoring is normally depends on how important they

think their data is.

 

Since security is 'non-income producing', a lot of companies tend to

spend the least they can get away with. The logic has always gone over

my head . . . if good security can save you money by preventing fraud

or embezzlement, then that can in fact be considered income producing.

If you want to see something depressing, read the annual report for any

of the large banks . . . the amount that they show as 'loss due to

possible computer fraud' is appalling.

 

--

 

Sincerely,

C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

 

CSD Computer Services

Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/

E-mail: csdcs@tlerma.com

[Guest C.Joseph S. Drayton]

Re: Its War!

 

Frank-FL wrote:

>

>"stanley" <ihazwell@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>news:stanley.36ecjq@no-mx.tabletquestions.com...

>>

>> C.Joseph S. Drayton;950202 Wrote:

>>> Each office has an IP for each of the Ethernet ports. So yes,

>>>they know which port is doing what. Then tying a MAC address to

>>>port is childs play. Once they have that MAC address, even if

>>>you move to another ethernet jack in the building, they would

>>>know that it is your computer. The key is that unless you fake

>>>your MAC address, it can be tied to your computer. And once they

>>>have your MAC address they will always no where you are plugging

>>>in, in the building.

>>> At one point or another, assuming your IT department takes

>>>network security seriously, they have tied your MAC address to

>>>you. If they simply left those jacks in the office available to

>>>anybody with a laptop, their security would be fairly lax. Even

>>>if you can only log into the router for Internet, the mere fact

>>>that you can get to their router would put them at risk since

>>>you could theoretically hijack their router.

>>>

>>> Good network security means that IT always knows what computer is

>>> connected to the network.

>>

>> Thanks for all that information, which I'm sure is all very basic

>>for you!

>>

>> I did not know that each Ethernet port has a unique address-- it

>>seemed like just another jack in the wall like a phone jack. I

>>guess not! So all my internet usage can be tracked to my office

>>and hence to me. I'm an independent contractor and bill based on

>>services not by salary, so they have no reason to track my time

>>usage, but still, thats interesting that they could track every

>>visit to the sports pages to me directly if they wanted to!

>

>It would be interesting to know how anyone or anything could assign an

>IP address to a hole in the wall.

 

The whole in the wall ultimately ends up as a device on the router. The

router can be set so that no matter what machine is plugged into that

'hole-in-th-wall', it will be given a static IP of a particular address.

 

Ultimately, if DHCP is on, then the router has final say as to the IP

that is accessing it. You could set an IP on your machine and if it is

in range AND is not in use, then you could get away with it. If the IP

were in use, then the machine already using it would know that another

machine tried to use the IP and the router would know. The router can

not handle 2 'holes-in-th-wall' using the same IP.

--

 

Sincerely,

C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

 

CSD Computer Services

Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/

E-mail: csdcs@tlerma.com