Guest Brian A. Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive "Jim Madsen" <justme@nobody.com> wrote in message news:%23UaP2wwiIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Thanks for all the replies. Sorry about starting some debates. > > Well, based upon the recommendations, I decided what we're going to do. > > We will ***** --not tell you our decision. Party pooper. <s> > > BTW, at work we have that magnetic hard-drive destroyer (see I CAN spell it > right!). The first time they used it, it actually yanked the hard drive out of the > lady's hands. One lady in our IT department is afraid of it, and refuses to go > near it when it is operating. They're called degaussers which put the magnetic domains in random patterns with no orientation preference or alignment. Degaussing does not randomize the magnetic alignment on magnetic domains that contain magnetic remnance. > > Again, thanks for the advice. Good night You're welcome. -- Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience } Conflicts start where information lacks. http://basconotw.mvps.org/ Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
Guest Fan924 Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive Download Western Digital's Data Lifeguard on floppy. Boot up on it and you can overwrite 0's to the entire disc. Works great.
Guest dadiOH Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive Bill in Co. wrote: > Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard > pressed to recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think > Gary was thinking of the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a > real format). There is no longer such a thing as a true "full format" of a hard drive except the one done by the manufacturer originally. Certainly, not one by Windows...a full format of even a smallish hard drive would take many hours during which time the drive geometry - cylinders, tracks - is laid out, tracks are numbered, the entire drive is written with a byte pattern and verified. If the OP wants to destroy everything on the drive - including all intersector bytes - passing a magnet over it should do it. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Guest dadiOH Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive Jim Madsen wrote: > My daughter has an old Gateway computer running Windows 98. She > says no one wants it because it is slow and obsolete and she wants > to turn it into the local recycling place. > > She is worried about (personal) data on the hard drive. I wonder if > reformatting the HD will destroy all the data? My old W95 > computer, I took the HD out and smashed it with a sledge hammer, > but she doesn't want to do that. > > She took it to a computer store, and they offered to "hose" the HD > and dispose of the computer for $50.00. > > Any suggestions? Pass a magnet back and forth over it. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Guest Mike Y Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive You need to do a couple of things. First, reformat the drive. That removes all 'indexes' to the data that is on there. But it's still there and easily accessible to a hacker. Now, some people say the 'disk test', if it works on a 'blank' area of the media, will not save what it finds before the test, and it overwrites any old data, but I'm not sure and never tested that. So, to clear that off, write a simple recursive copy routine that just copies the windows directory over and over to 'list' of directories named tar1, tar2, tar3, and so on. Eventually the drive will fill and error. Then del all the tarxxxx directories. By doing a 'copy', the data that used to be there is overwritten and generally not accessible except by analog recovery techniques. (Well, ok, there ARE ways, but VERY few hackers even know about them!) However... There is the possibility that in copying files, there could be little 'snippets' of data in sectors that don't fill clusters. While not really something to worry about, they could be there. If you're really paranoid, write a program that actually treats the whole drive as 'data' and make sure it fills each cluster. Have it use the same idea of subdirectories just to make it easy to manage. Mike "Jim Madsen" <justme@nobody.com> wrote in message news:%23ks9OztiIHA.5280@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > My daughter has an old Gateway computer running Windows 98. She says no > one wants it because it is slow and obsolete and she wants to turn it > into the local recycling place. > > She is worried about (personal) data on the hard drive. I wonder if > reformatting the HD will destroy all the data? My old W95 computer, I > took the HD out and smashed it with a sledge hammer, but she doesn't > want to do that. > > She took it to a computer store, and they offered to "hose" the HD and > dispose of the computer for $50.00. > > Any suggestions? > > Jim
Guest Mike Y Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message news:fd46u3dcldjfh9n7d68rj9tekhqb5lcea6@4ax.com... > On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:41:24 -0700, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> put > finger to keyboard and composed: > > >Everything is still left there except the table of contents (FAT). All > >FORMAT does is write a new FAT. But it's *easy* to recover data after a > >format, ALL of the data. Hell, with RTT, I can recover significant data from > >20 formats back. > > > >And why *aren't* you talking about "special snoop programs"? I have a very > >good one and lots are sold for under $100. Why aren't you worried about > >someone using one of those? > > Typing "help format" at the DOS prompt documents the function of > several switches, including /U, which is supposed to "destroy all > existing data": > I believe in that in 98 the U just means don't try to recover. I think it still makes calls to the 'verify' routine which isn't destructive to existing data.
Guest Mike Y Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message news:ju76u3h2bgb56434tjisvjgfnt1ntj9ps5@4ax.com... > On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:21:25 -0700 (PDT), Lee <melee5@my-deja.com> put > finger to keyboard and composed: > > > ... your advice on zero filled data is > >totally incorrect. Gary's cheap tools can recover this data even if > >zero filled multiple times. > > How is it possible to recover data without the use of forensic tools? > (I'm assuming that Gary doesn't have these.) Surely if a particular > sector has been filled with zeroes, even if only once, then any time > your OS reads this sector, your drive's uP will retrieve those exact > same zeroes. I would think that in order to retrieve any previous > data, you would need special access to the servo and to the read/write > heads, and to bypass the uP's control of the drive. > > - Franc Zabkar > -- > Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. Special hardware can read overwritten data, but it's not normally available to your script-kiddy hackers. There are multiple techniques, one of which is looking for bit shifts...
Guest Mike Y Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive "John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message news:enRecXxiIHA.6084@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Lee wrote: > > > Best advice yet is correct, but your advice on zero filled data is > > totally incorrect. > > No, his advice is totally correct! I challenge you, or anyone reading > these groups, to offer concrete proof that they can recover zero > written/wiped files or to give us the names of data recovery firms who > can do it. > > It cannot be done, it has never been done, no one has ever been able to > do it and no one has ever been able to offer a shred of evidence that > they have successfully recovered files on securely wiped disks. > > John > Special hardware can could overwritten data. Either with an analog analysis or looking for bit shifts. Don't get confused in thinking that digital is digital, it's still an analog media...
Guest Davej Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive On Mar 20, 5:36 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote: > Not even smashing the thing with a sledge hammer will destroy the data. > If the disk is bent the data is unrecoverable by anyone without a full- blown laboratory and a big budget. That is good enough, but reusing the drive in another machine makes more sense.
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive I was being factual: I don't know who the girl is worried about, what the information is worth, and thus can't tell just how much money they might be willing to spend. We don't know what the recycler does with the HDs. Probably melts them, but what do I know? Throw a HD into the morning trash and it's very likely to never see the light of day again, to undergo the same melting when the landfill pile is mass recycled -- unless someone is stalking you. Then you got problems. I'm paranoid, so I do zero-wipes on dead HDs but am also developing a pile in the corner of the shed and am in the market for a mass-destructor magnet. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://www.grystmill.com "Davej" <galt_57@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:34e37af9-d4a2-4d53-bbdf-2a6193600cc4@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > On Mar 20, 5:36 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote: >> Not even smashing the thing with a sledge hammer will destroy the data. >> > > If the disk is bent the data is unrecoverable by anyone without a full- > blown laboratory and a big budget. That is good enough, but reusing > the drive in another machine makes more sense.
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive To add to this sub-thread, it is my understanding that the tools I'm referring to cannot recover data from under "zero-fill". Takes special equipment to read vagaries in magnetic layers at the molecular level. I was referring only to drives that had been formatted, and in some cases formatted multiple times (20 or more). FORMATTING, even a Thorough format, does not destroy data and the data not destroyed is easy to cover, even several formats deep. Even, I'll venture, after a "low-level" format. Now, the more you overwrite data during normal daily use, the less is recoverable later on. Twenty formats deep will yield some gems, but mostly buried deep in the most esoteric poetry you can find. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://www.grystmill.com "Lee" <melee5@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:bce17331-9666-4b2f-b393-0895d58410b6@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... On Mar 20, 6:05 pm, "philo" <ph...@privacy.net> wrote: > "Franc Zabkar" <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message > > news:9ur5u3l0qbdnqh4pjnu8s4om84jvgkmm98@4ax.com... > > > > > On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:48:40 -0600, Jim Madsen <jus...@nobody.com> put > > finger to keyboard and composed: > > > >My daughter has an old Gateway computer running Windows 98. She says no > > >one wants it because it is slow and obsolete and she wants to turn it > > >into the local recycling place. > > > >She is worried about (personal) data on the hard drive. I wonder if > > >reformatting the HD will destroy all the data? My old W95 computer, I > > >took the HD out and smashed it with a sledge hammer, but she doesn't > > >want to do that. > > > >She took it to a computer store, and they offered to "hose" the HD and > > >dispose of the computer for $50.00. > > > >Any suggestions? > > > >Jim > > > Use a "zero fill" utility, eg ... > > http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=65a8783c970ce010VgnVC... > > > > > - Franc Zabkar > > This is the best advice yet. > > If the drive is zero filled...not only is the data gone... > it cannot be recovered.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Best advice yet is correct, but your advice on zero filled data is totally incorrect. Gary's cheap tools can recover this data even if zero filled multiple times. For the average guy, zero filling is about as far as one needs to go. Bart's free Disktool will do this and also overwrite the disk with test patterns over and over just to be double sure the average guy is not going to be able to recover your credit card number for example - but it can still be done by those with the more expensive tools. http://www.nu2.nu/utils/
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive That's my understanding, but I'll just have to test. Don't hold your breath. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://www.grystmill.com "Mike Y" <joe@user.com> wrote in message news:vuLEj.82$qi6.19@newsfe05.lga... > > "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message > news:fd46u3dcldjfh9n7d68rj9tekhqb5lcea6@4ax.com... >> On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:41:24 -0700, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> put >> finger to keyboard and composed: >> >> >Everything is still left there except the table of contents (FAT). All >> >FORMAT does is write a new FAT. But it's *easy* to recover data after a >> >format, ALL of the data. Hell, with RTT, I can recover significant data > from >> >20 formats back. >> > >> >And why *aren't* you talking about "special snoop programs"? I have a > very >> >good one and lots are sold for under $100. Why aren't you worried about >> >someone using one of those? >> >> Typing "help format" at the DOS prompt documents the function of >> several switches, including /U, which is supposed to "destroy all >> existing data": >> > > I believe in that in 98 the U just means don't try to recover. I think it > still > makes calls to the 'verify' routine which isn't destructive to existing > data. > >
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive You're wrong. All "full" FORMAT (not "quick") does is a quick format (zero-out FATS) and then tests the disk for unreadable clusters. Unless to try to recover those clusters, it performs no other "repairs". -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://www.grystmill.com "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:uRDDPFwiIHA.4468@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > No, I don't think that is true for a regular full format. > > Gary S. Terhune wrote: >> Everything is still left there except the table of contents (FAT). All >> FORMAT does is write a new FAT. But it's *easy* to recover data after a >> format, ALL of the data. Hell, with RTT, I can recover significant data >> from >> 20 formats back. >> >> And why *aren't* you talking about "special snoop programs"? I have a >> very >> good one and lots are sold for under $100. Why aren't you worried about >> someone using one of those? >> >> -- >> Gary S. Terhune >> MS-MVP Shell/User >> http://www.grystmill.com >> >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:%23bMCBKuiIHA.3448@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> Come again? (And no, I'm not talking about someone using special >>> snoop >>> programs). If you boot up on a DOS floppy, and do a format c: , >>> what's >>> really left there? >>> >>> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>>> No, it won't. Not even close. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gary S. Terhune >>>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>>> http://www.grystmill.com >>>> >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:ubjMS1tiIHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>> Reformatting it will destroy all the data. >>>>> >>>>> Jim Madsen wrote: >>>>>> My daughter has an old Gateway computer running Windows 98. She says >>>>>> no >>>>>> one wants it because it is slow and obsolete and she wants to turn it >>>>>> into the local recycling place. >>>>>> >>>>>> She is worried about (personal) data on the hard drive. I wonder if >>>>>> reformatting the HD will destroy all the data? My old W95 computer, >>>>>> I >>>>>> took the HD out and smashed it with a sledge hammer, but she doesn't >>>>>> want to do that. >>>>>> >>>>>> She took it to a computer store, and they offered to "hose" the HD >>>>>> and >>>>>> dispose of the computer for $50.00. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any suggestions? >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim > >
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive You're wrong. Full format has no effect on the data. Full format is Quick format followed by a cluster integrity check, no more. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://www.grystmill.com "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:uNue8uxiIHA.4740@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard pressed to > recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think Gary was thinking of > the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a real format). > > John John wrote: >> Lee wrote: >> >>> Best advice yet is correct, but your advice on zero filled data is >>> totally incorrect. >> >> No, his advice is totally correct! I challenge you, or anyone reading >> these groups, to offer concrete proof that they can recover zero >> written/wiped files or to give us the names of data recovery firms who >> can do it. >> >> It cannot be done, it has never been done, no one has ever been able to >> do it and no one has ever been able to offer a shred of evidence that >> they have successfully recovered files on securely wiped disks. >> >> John > >
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive What you describe is a "low-level" format, not a "full" format. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://www.grystmill.com "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message news:ei9JBrziIHA.5504@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Bill in Co. wrote: >> Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard >> pressed to recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think >> Gary was thinking of the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a >> real format). > > There is no longer such a thing as a true "full format" of a hard > drive except the one done by the manufacturer originally. Certainly, > not one by Windows...a full format of even a smallish hard drive would > take many hours during which time the drive geometry - cylinders, > tracks - is laid out, tracks are numbered, the entire drive is written > with a byte pattern and verified. > > If the OP wants to destroy everything on the drive - including all > intersector bytes - passing a magnet over it should do it. > > -- > > dadiOH > ____________________________ > > dadiOH's dandies v3.06... > ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from > LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. > Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico > > >
Guest John John Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive Mike Y wrote: > "John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message > news:enRecXxiIHA.6084@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > >>Lee wrote: >> >> >>>Best advice yet is correct, but your advice on zero filled data is >>>totally incorrect. >> >>No, his advice is totally correct! I challenge you, or anyone reading >>these groups, to offer concrete proof that they can recover zero >>written/wiped files or to give us the names of data recovery firms who >>can do it. >> >>It cannot be done, it has never been done, no one has ever been able to >>do it and no one has ever been able to offer a shred of evidence that >>they have successfully recovered files on securely wiped disks. >> >>John >> > > > Special hardware can could overwritten data. Either with an analog > analysis or looking for bit shifts. Don't get confused in thinking that > digital is digital, it's still an analog media... That is not true, there is no such magical machine available at any cost that can recover data on securely wiped (zero filed) drives. No one can recover data on properly wiped drives, the notion that it can be done is nothing more than a myth. John
Guest Brian A. Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive Take them to a metal scrapyard where they load ore cars with I-beams and other metal using a large magnet. -- Brian A. Sesko { MS MVP_Windows Desktop User Experience } Conflicts start where information lacks. http://basconotw.mvps.org/ Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message news:uck0uw0iIHA.4076@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >I was being factual: I don't know who the girl is worried about, what the >information is worth, and thus can't tell just how much money they might be willing >to spend. We don't know what the recycler does with the HDs. Probably melts them, >but what do I know? Throw a HD into the morning trash and it's very likely to never >see the light of day again, to undergo the same melting when the landfill pile is >mass recycled -- unless someone is stalking you. Then you got problems. I'm >paranoid, so I do zero-wipes on dead HDs but am also developing a pile in the corner >of the shed and am in the market for a mass-destructor magnet. > > -- > Gary S. Terhune > MS-MVP Shell/User > http://www.grystmill.com > > "Davej" <galt_57@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:34e37af9-d4a2-4d53-bbdf-2a6193600cc4@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >> On Mar 20, 5:36 pm, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote: >>> Not even smashing the thing with a sledge hammer will destroy the data. >>> >> >> If the disk is bent the data is unrecoverable by anyone without a full- >> blown laboratory and a big budget. That is good enough, but reusing >> the drive in another machine makes more sense. >
Guest dadiOH Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive Use to be just plain "format" (sans adjectives) :) dadiOH _____________ Gary S. Terhune wrote: > What you describe is a "low-level" format, not a "full" format. > > > "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message > news:ei9JBrziIHA.5504@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Bill in Co. wrote: >>> Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard >>> pressed to recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think >>> Gary was thinking of the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a >>> real format). >> >> There is no longer such a thing as a true "full format" of a hard >> drive except the one done by the manufacturer originally. >> Certainly, not one by Windows...a full format of even a smallish >> hard drive would take many hours during which time the drive >> geometry - cylinders, tracks - is laid out, tracks are numbered, >> the entire drive is written with a byte pattern and verified. >> >> If the OP wants to destroy everything on the drive - including all >> intersector bytes - passing a magnet over it should do it. ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive What did? -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://www.grystmill.com "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message news:%23P7qnx1iIHA.1132@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Use to be just plain "format" (sans adjectives) :) > > dadiOH > _____________ > > Gary S. Terhune wrote: >> What you describe is a "low-level" format, not a "full" format. >> >> >> "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in message >> news:ei9JBrziIHA.5504@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>> Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard >>>> pressed to recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think >>>> Gary was thinking of the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a >>>> real format). >>> >>> There is no longer such a thing as a true "full format" of a hard >>> drive except the one done by the manufacturer originally. >>> Certainly, not one by Windows...a full format of even a smallish >>> hard drive would take many hours during which time the drive >>> geometry - cylinders, tracks - is laid out, tracks are numbered, >>> the entire drive is written with a byte pattern and verified. >>> >>> If the OP wants to destroy everything on the drive - including all >>> intersector bytes - passing a magnet over it should do it. > ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from > LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. > Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico > > >
Guest philo Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive "Lee" <melee5@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:bce17331-9666-4b2f-b393-0895d58410b6@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... On Mar 20, 6:05 pm, "philo" <ph...@privacy.net> wrote: > "Franc Zabkar" <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message > > news:9ur5u3l0qbdnqh4pjnu8s4om84jvgkmm98@4ax.com... > > > > > On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:48:40 -0600, Jim Madsen <jus...@nobody.com> put > > finger to keyboard and composed: > > > >My daughter has an old Gateway computer running Windows 98. She says no > > >one wants it because it is slow and obsolete and she wants to turn it > > >into the local recycling place. > > > >She is worried about (personal) data on the hard drive. I wonder if > > >reformatting the HD will destroy all the data? My old W95 computer, I > > >took the HD out and smashed it with a sledge hammer, but she doesn't > > >want to do that. > > > >She took it to a computer store, and they offered to "hose" the HD and > > >dispose of the computer for $50.00. > > > >Any suggestions? > > > >Jim > > > Use a "zero fill" utility, eg ... > > http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=65a8783c970ce010VgnVC... > > > > > - Franc Zabkar > > This is the best advice yet. > > If the drive is zero filled...not only is the data gone... > it cannot be recovered.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Best advice yet is correct, but your advice on zero filled data is totally incorrect. Gary's cheap tools can recover this data even if zero filled multiple times. Nope that's a total myth. No drive zero-wiped to government standards has even had any data recovered from it. The only reason the government destroys drives is due to the human error element VIZ: There is the possibility that the person who wipes the drive failed to do so or run it until completion. No one has *EVERY* given evidence of retrieving data from a properly zero-wiped drive. Here is the definitive answer: http://searchwincomputing.techtarget.com/tip/0,289483,sid68_gci1246592,00.html For the average guy, zero filling is about as far as one needs to go. Bart's free Disktool will do this and also overwrite the disk with test patterns over and over just to be double sure the average guy is not going to be able to recover your credit card number for example - but it can still be done by those with the more expensive tools. http://www.nu2.nu/utils/
Guest Bill in Co. Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive That's it, for a hard drive??? OK, then I stand corrected. Must be only for floppies that it can do the whole shebang. I had thought, though, in the past, when I did a format c:/s, for preping a hard drive for Win9x, it was overwriting all the hard disk, as it took awhile (at least as I recall). Guess not. Gary S. Terhune wrote: > You're wrong. Full format has no effect on the data. Full format is Quick > format followed by a cluster integrity check, no more. > > -- > Gary S. Terhune > MS-MVP Shell/User > http://www.grystmill.com > > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:uNue8uxiIHA.4740@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard pressed >> to >> recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think Gary was thinking of >> the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a real format). >> >> John John wrote: >>> Lee wrote: >>> >>>> Best advice yet is correct, but your advice on zero filled data is >>>> totally incorrect. >>> >>> No, his advice is totally correct! I challenge you, or anyone reading >>> these groups, to offer concrete proof that they can recover zero >>> written/wiped files or to give us the names of data recovery firms who >>> can do it. >>> >>> It cannot be done, it has never been done, no one has ever been able to >>> do it and no one has ever been able to offer a shred of evidence that >>> they have successfully recovered files on securely wiped disks. >>> >>> John
Guest Bill in Co. Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive dadiOH wrote: > Bill in Co. wrote: >> Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard >> pressed to recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think >> Gary was thinking of the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a >> real format). > > There is no longer such a thing as a true "full format" of a hard > drive except the one done by the manufacturer originally. Certainly, > not one by Windows...a full format of even a smallish hard drive would > take many hours during which time the drive geometry - cylinders, > tracks - is laid out, tracks are numbered, the entire drive is written > with a byte pattern and verified. OK, then I stand corrected. > If the OP wants to destroy everything on the drive - including all > intersector bytes - passing a magnet over it should do it. > > -- > > dadiOH > ____________________________ > > dadiOH's dandies v3.06... > ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from > LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. > Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Guest Gary S. Terhune Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive FORMAT C: takes a while because the default action is a Thorough scan by Scandisk after formatting. To avoid this, use the /q (quick) switch. -- Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User http://www.grystmill.com "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:%23xU60M5iIHA.4396@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > That's it, for a hard drive??? OK, then I stand corrected. Must be > only for floppies that it can do the whole shebang. > > I had thought, though, in the past, when I did a format c:/s, for preping > a hard drive for Win9x, it was overwriting all the hard disk, as it took > awhile (at least as I recall). Guess not. > > Gary S. Terhune wrote: >> You're wrong. Full format has no effect on the data. Full format is Quick >> format followed by a cluster integrity check, no more. >> >> -- >> Gary S. Terhune >> MS-MVP Shell/User >> http://www.grystmill.com >> >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >> news:uNue8uxiIHA.4740@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard pressed >>> to >>> recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think Gary was thinking >>> of >>> the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a real format). >>> >>> John John wrote: >>>> Lee wrote: >>>> >>>>> Best advice yet is correct, but your advice on zero filled data is >>>>> totally incorrect. >>>> >>>> No, his advice is totally correct! I challenge you, or anyone reading >>>> these groups, to offer concrete proof that they can recover zero >>>> written/wiped files or to give us the names of data recovery firms who >>>> can do it. >>>> >>>> It cannot be done, it has never been done, no one has ever been able to >>>> do it and no one has ever been able to offer a shred of evidence that >>>> they have successfully recovered files on securely wiped disks. >>>> >>>> John > >
Guest Bill in Co. Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive OK, but I apparently stand corrected in assuming that it was as "thorough" on a hard disk as it was on a floppy - overwriting everything on the disk (or at least I'm pretty sure that assumption is still true for a floppy using full format). Hmmm. Perhaps I should have known better in at least one way, because I once tried one of those disk overwriting programs and it seemed it took forever. Gary S. Terhune wrote: > FORMAT C: takes a while because the default action is a Thorough scan by > Scandisk after formatting. To avoid this, use the /q (quick) switch. > > -- > Gary S. Terhune > MS-MVP Shell/User > http://www.grystmill.com > > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:%23xU60M5iIHA.4396@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> That's it, for a hard drive??? OK, then I stand corrected. Must be >> only for floppies that it can do the whole shebang. >> >> I had thought, though, in the past, when I did a format c:/s, for preping >> a hard drive for Win9x, it was overwriting all the hard disk, as it took >> awhile (at least as I recall). Guess not. >> >> Gary S. Terhune wrote: >>> You're wrong. Full format has no effect on the data. Full format is >>> Quick >>> format followed by a cluster integrity check, no more. >>> >>> -- >>> Gary S. Terhune >>> MS-MVP Shell/User >>> http://www.grystmill.com >>> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>> news:uNue8uxiIHA.4740@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>> Even as I said, if you do a Full format, I think you'll be hard pressed >>>> to >>>> recover much, despite what Gary said. But I think Gary was thinking >>>> of >>>> the Quick Format (and I don't consider that a real format). >>>> >>>> John John wrote: >>>>> Lee wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Best advice yet is correct, but your advice on zero filled data is >>>>>> totally incorrect. >>>>> >>>>> No, his advice is totally correct! I challenge you, or anyone reading >>>>> these groups, to offer concrete proof that they can recover zero >>>>> written/wiped files or to give us the names of data recovery firms who >>>>> can do it. >>>>> >>>>> It cannot be done, it has never been done, no one has ever been able >>>>> to >>>>> do it and no one has ever been able to offer a shred of evidence that >>>>> they have successfully recovered files on securely wiped disks. >>>>> >>>>> John
Guest Franc Zabkar Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Re: destorying the hard drive On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 05:32:07 -0700, "Gary S. Terhune" <none> put finger to keyboard and composed: >You're wrong. Full format has no effect on the data. Full format is Quick >format followed by a cluster integrity check, no more. I think you're right. Maybe the confusion, at least in my case, is due to the different way the Format command appears to treat floppy diskettes as opposed to hard drives. Anyway, after "full" formatting a 320GB USB HD from within Explorer, I used a disc editor to view the HD and found that all the data appeared to be intact. I suspect that a "format /u" from within DOS would produce the same result but I don't have a spare HD to reliably test this (my USB HD stalls at 0%). OTOH, a full format of a floppy diskette writes F6 bytes to every sector in the data area. The same thing happens when I type ... format a: /u .... at a DOS prompt. A "quick" GUI format or a plain DOS format both leave the diskette's data area intact. Here are two of the FD images: http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/frmt_img.zip (4.2KB) I suspect that the difference in the treatment of FDs and HDs may be due to the fact that diskettes can be magnetically blank, ie they may have no prerecorded sector IDs, in which case they need to be low level formatted. HDs, OTOH, are already low level formatted at the factory. - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
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