Windows Vista/Windows Server 2008: GUI Improvements Required

March 24, 2008

Hi,

Evaluating Vista/Server 2008 for migration from W2k, W2k3, XP I noticed a

couple of drawbacks when using those OSs.

I've compiled the problems and put them all into one issue here instead of

creating separate issues for all of them.

-- 1 -- : Keyboard handling: It's very straining to use Vista/Server 2008 by

keyboard. It should by far be better supported, like in the previous Windows

versions. Current drawbacks are:

-- 1.1 -- : Common Dialog File Open/Save boxes are missing keyboard

shortcuts, e.g. for creating new folders (previously <ALT>+<F>-<W>-<F>).

-- 1.2 -- : Using Windows Explorer with the keyboard becomes horror:

-- 1.2.1 -- : Opening Windows Explorer (=WE) with <FLAG>+<E> gives focus to

the ListView instead of the TreeView control. So a reverse Tab <SHIFT>+<TAB>

is required to navigate the tree. (It's very uncommon that any action is

required at the "Computer" node, so TreeView navigation is usually *always*

the first thing to be done in Windows Explorer.)

-- 1.2.2 -- : Navigating the WE TreeView doesn't update the ListView. It's

required to hit the [RETURN] key to get the ListView updated. This makes

browsing quite awkward to do.

-- 1.2.3 -- : Tab sequence in WE is very strange! Usually, switching focus

between TreeView and ListView is just a one-tab sequence (you just have to

press the <TAB> key once). But after hitting [RETURN] on the TreeView, the

ListView becomes 4 <TAB> hits away!

-- 1.3 -- : SQL Server 2005 Management Studio doesn't provide a quick "Open

Database Connection" shortcut (previously <CTRL> + <O>, now only

<F8>-<ALT>+<V> [on German version])

-- 1.4 -- : Internet Explorer 7 doesn't provide a shortcut for setting focus

to the address bar (formerly <ALT>+<D>). So it's very hard to correct typos

after hitting [RETURN]. (Awkward, but yet best workaround: <CTRL>+<E> -

<SHIFT>+<TAB> - <SHIFT>+<TAB>)

-- 1.5 -- : The new Start menu is very unhandy.

Just mentioning it to keep the classic view available in future Windows

versions: I've traditionally arranged my (classic) start menu tree in a way

to quickly reach any program by simply pressing the <FLAG> key plus the first

letter of a Start menu entry to finally reach a program entry (e.g.

<FLAG>--<O>-<W> which is "Programs - Office - Word 2003" ...or...

<FLAG>++<D>+<8>+<S> which is "Programs - Development Tools - 8_Visual

Studio 2005 - S_Visual Studio"). (This is more easy to do in German than in

English because of default entries starting with the same letter in English

[e.g. "Accessories/Administrative Tools"]). So I'll stick to the classic

Start menu version.

-- 2 -- : Copy File dialog doesn't provide useful information. Even after

updating Vista to SP1, the Copy File dialog still doesn't display which file

currently is copied. So when copying large files the user can't tell which

file is currently copied and, thus, isn't free for use.

-- 3 -- : Color Schema: Hover color is (almost) same as selection color. So

it's hard to tell if an entry has been selected or if the mouse pointer is

just hovering above a ListView entry in WE.

-- 4 -- : Back button in WE doesn't provide a history list. So it's

impossible to go back in history and skip a recently visited folder that

might have become unavailable.

-- 5 -- : WE and Common Dialogs are missing "Navigate to parent node"

functionality.

Thanks for taking the time and eventually forwarding my concerns/suggestions

to the Vista/Server 2008 group.

Axel Dahmen

http://www.axeldahmen.com

March 28, 2008

RE: Windows Vista/Windows Server 2008: GUI Improvements Required

Wow, I have been a network tech for 20 years and never knew half of those

keyboard shortcuts. Where did you learn them all? I guess if you depend on

them then it can be very annoying. I run Windows 2003/XP in my network at

work but Vista at home. I use the mouse 99% of the time. I only use the

keyboard when the mouse isn't installed or dead.

I agree with a few but some shortcuts you listed work for me in Vista. The

create new folder and the Alt-D for IE 7 both work. Thanks for those by the

way. That is pretty cool. Even MS techs couldn't give me the shortcut for new

folder. I BEGGED that they include an easy one for Vista but they never did.

One thing I miss from my Mac Days.

I actually FAR prefer the windows XP Windows Explorer too. I LOVED the

folder button where I could just click on it to switch back and forth. With

Vista it is more convulted with having to change the "Organize - Layout" and

then it is changed for EVERY window and not just the one I am viewing at the

moment.

No I cannot say that I am impressed at all with Vista. I like a few new

features but overall XP is far superiour. I have been using it for over a

year now and XP at work. Still prefer XP too.

Cheers,

Lara

"Axel Dahmen" wrote:

> Hi,

>

> Evaluating Vista/Server 2008 for migration from W2k, W2k3, XP I noticed a

> couple of drawbacks when using those OSs.

>

> I've compiled the problems and put them all into one issue here instead of

> creating separate issues for all of them.

>

> -- 1 -- : Keyboard handling: It's very straining to use Vista/Server 2008

> by

> keyboard. It should by far be better supported, like in the previous

> Windows

> versions. Current drawbacks are:

>

> -- 1.1 -- : Common Dialog File Open/Save boxes are missing keyboard

> shortcuts, e.g. for creating new folders (previously <ALT>+<F>-<W>-<F>).

>

> -- 1.2 -- : Using Windows Explorer with the keyboard becomes horror:

>

> -- 1.2.1 -- : Opening Windows Explorer (=WE) with <FLAG>+<E> gives focus

> to

> the ListView instead of the TreeView control. So a reverse Tab

> <SHIFT>+<TAB>

> is required to navigate the tree. (It's very uncommon that any action is

> required at the "Computer" node, so TreeView navigation is usually

> *always*

> the first thing to be done in Windows Explorer.)

>

> -- 1.2.2 -- : Navigating the WE TreeView doesn't update the ListView. It's

> required to hit the [RETURN] key to get the ListView updated. This makes

> browsing quite awkward to do.

>

> -- 1.2.3 -- : Tab sequence in WE is very strange! Usually, switching focus

> between TreeView and ListView is just a one-tab sequence (you just have to

> press the <TAB> key once). But after hitting [RETURN] on the TreeView, the

> ListView becomes 4 <TAB> hits away!

>

> -- 1.3 -- : SQL Server 2005 Management Studio doesn't provide a quick

> "Open

> Database Connection" shortcut (previously <CTRL> + <O>, now only

> <F8>-<ALT>+<V> [on German version])

>

> -- 1.4 -- : Internet Explorer 7 doesn't provide a shortcut for setting

> focus

> to the address bar (formerly <ALT>+<D>). So it's very hard to correct

> typos

> after hitting [RETURN]. (Awkward, but yet best workaround: <CTRL>+<E> -

> <SHIFT>+<TAB> - <SHIFT>+<TAB>)

>

> -- 1.5 -- : The new Start menu is very unhandy.

> Just mentioning it to keep the classic view available in future Windows

> versions: I've traditionally arranged my (classic) start menu tree in a

> way

> to quickly reach any program by simply pressing the <FLAG> key plus the

> first

> letter of a Start menu entry to finally reach a program entry (e.g.

> <FLAG>--<O>-<W> which is "Programs - Office - Word 2003" ...or...

> <FLAG>++<D>+<8>+<S> which is "Programs - Development Tools - 8_Visual

> Studio 2005 - S_Visual Studio"). (This is more easy to do in German than

> in

> English because of default entries starting with the same letter in

> English

> [e.g. "Accessories/Administrative Tools"]). So I'll stick to the classic

> Start menu version.

>

> -- 2 -- : Copy File dialog doesn't provide useful information. Even after

> updating Vista to SP1, the Copy File dialog still doesn't display which

> file

> currently is copied. So when copying large files the user can't tell which

> file is currently copied and, thus, isn't free for use.

>

> -- 3 -- : Color Schema: Hover color is (almost) same as selection color.

> So

> it's hard to tell if an entry has been selected or if the mouse pointer is

> just hovering above a ListView entry in WE.

>

> -- 4 -- : Back button in WE doesn't provide a history list. So it's

> impossible to go back in history and skip a recently visited folder that

> might have become unavailable.

>

> -- 5 -- : WE and Common Dialogs are missing "Navigate to parent node"

> functionality.

>

> Thanks for taking the time and eventually forwarding my

> concerns/suggestions

> to the Vista/Server 2008 group.

>

> Axel Dahmen

> http://www.axeldahmen.com

>

March 28, 2008

Re: Windows Vista/Windows Server 2008: GUI Improvements Required

Hi Lara,

thanks for your kind introduction *blush*...I found most of them in the Windows documentation back when W95 started..

Being a software engineer I've got my hands on the keyboard most of the time (just like now) so it has become quicker for me to use these shortcuts than leaving keyboard, search for the mouse, search for the mouse pointer, search for the place I want to click, and so on... I use most of them without even thinking about them.

And you can give focus to the IE7 address bar by hitting <ALT>+<D>? Strange.. though not impossible I guess. I'm using German versions of OS and software. With German IE6 it actually had been <ALT>+<S> to do this job (same for Firefox). At my job we're using English IE6, so I know the English keyboard combination from there. I've tried all possible keyboard combinations on my home computer now, from <ALT>+<A> to <ALT>+<Z>. None of them did the trick.

Regarding the New Folder feature: Yes, it works in WE. Yet it doesn't work in Windows' so-called Common Dialogs. These Windows Common Dialogs are used by programs to provide "Open...", "Save" and "Save as..." features. You can check this by simply opening Notepad and trying to open a file from there (e.g. <CTRL>+<O>). What you see then is the Windows Common Open File Dialog. And there you can't create a new folder using the keyboard in Vista/Windows Server 2008.

Perhaps you might want to vote for my suggestion? The more votes it gets the more probably MS will read it and amend Vista/Windows Server 2008.

Regards,

http://www.axeldahmen.com

Axel Dahmen

-------------------

"lforbes" <lforbes@discussions.microsoft.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:A800C48E-7899-4D93-A739-DF1FCB8F58E2@microsoft.com...

> Wow, I have been a network tech for 20 years and never knew half of those

> keyboard shortcuts. Where did you learn them all? I guess if you depend on

> them then it can be very annoying. I run Windows 2003/XP in my network at

> work but Vista at home. I use the mouse 99% of the time. I only use the

> keyboard when the mouse isn't installed or dead.

>

> I agree with a few but some shortcuts you listed work for me in Vista. The

> create new folder and the Alt-D for IE 7 both work. Thanks for those by the

> way. That is pretty cool. Even MS techs couldn't give me the shortcut for new

> folder. I BEGGED that they include an easy one for Vista but they never did.

> One thing I miss from my Mac Days.

>

> I actually FAR prefer the windows XP Windows Explorer too. I LOVED the

> folder button where I could just click on it to switch back and forth. With

> Vista it is more convulted with having to change the "Organize - Layout" and

> then it is changed for EVERY window and not just the one I am viewing at the

> moment.

>

> No I cannot say that I am impressed at all with Vista. I like a few new

> features but overall XP is far superiour. I have been using it for over a

> year now and XP at work. Still prefer XP too.

>

> Cheers,

> Lara

>

> "Axel Dahmen" wrote:

>

>> Hi,

>>

>> Evaluating Vista/Server 2008 for migration from W2k, W2k3, XP I noticed a

>> couple of drawbacks when using those OSs.

>>

>> I've compiled the problems and put them all into one issue here instead of

>> creating separate issues for all of them.

>>

>> -- 1 -- : Keyboard handling: It's very straining to use Vista/Server 2008

>> by

>> keyboard. It should by far be better supported, like in the previous

>> Windows

>> versions. Current drawbacks are:

>>

>> -- 1.1 -- : Common Dialog File Open/Save boxes are missing keyboard

>> shortcuts, e.g. for creating new folders (previously <ALT>+<F>-<W>-<F>).

>>

>> -- 1.2 -- : Using Windows Explorer with the keyboard becomes horror:

>>

>> -- 1.2.1 -- : Opening Windows Explorer (=WE) with <FLAG>+<E> gives focus

>> to

>> the ListView instead of the TreeView control. So a reverse Tab

>> <SHIFT>+<TAB>

>> is required to navigate the tree. (It's very uncommon that any action is

>> required at the "Computer" node, so TreeView navigation is usually

>> *always*

>> the first thing to be done in Windows Explorer.)

>>

>> -- 1.2.2 -- : Navigating the WE TreeView doesn't update the ListView. It's

>> required to hit the [RETURN] key to get the ListView updated. This makes

>> browsing quite awkward to do.

>>

>> -- 1.2.3 -- : Tab sequence in WE is very strange! Usually, switching focus

>> between TreeView and ListView is just a one-tab sequence (you just have to

>> press the <TAB> key once). But after hitting [RETURN] on the TreeView, the

>> ListView becomes 4 <TAB> hits away!

>>

>> -- 1.3 -- : SQL Server 2005 Management Studio doesn't provide a quick

>> "Open

>> Database Connection" shortcut (previously <CTRL> + <O>, now only

>> <F8>-<ALT>+<V> [on German version])

>>

>> -- 1.4 -- : Internet Explorer 7 doesn't provide a shortcut for setting

>> focus

>> to the address bar (formerly <ALT>+<D>). So it's very hard to correct

>> typos

>> after hitting [RETURN]. (Awkward, but yet best workaround: <CTRL>+<E> -

>> <SHIFT>+<TAB> - <SHIFT>+<TAB>)

>>

>> -- 1.5 -- : The new Start menu is very unhandy.

>> Just mentioning it to keep the classic view available in future Windows

>> versions: I've traditionally arranged my (classic) start menu tree in a

>> way

>> to quickly reach any program by simply pressing the <FLAG> key plus the

>> first

>> letter of a Start menu entry to finally reach a program entry (e.g.

>> <FLAG>--<O>-<W> which is "Programs - Office - Word 2003" ...or...

>> <FLAG>++<D>+<8>+<S> which is "Programs - Development Tools - 8_Visual

>> Studio 2005 - S_Visual Studio"). (This is more easy to do in German than

>> in

>> English because of default entries starting with the same letter in

>> English

>> [e.g. "Accessories/Administrative Tools"]). So I'll stick to the classic

>> Start menu version.

>>

>> -- 2 -- : Copy File dialog doesn't provide useful information. Even after

>> updating Vista to SP1, the Copy File dialog still doesn't display which

>> file

>> currently is copied. So when copying large files the user can't tell which

>> file is currently copied and, thus, isn't free for use.

>>

>> -- 3 -- : Color Schema: Hover color is (almost) same as selection color.

>> So

>> it's hard to tell if an entry has been selected or if the mouse pointer is

>> just hovering above a ListView entry in WE.

>>

>> -- 4 -- : Back button in WE doesn't provide a history list. So it's

>> impossible to go back in history and skip a recently visited folder that

>> might have become unavailable.

>>

>> -- 5 -- : WE and Common Dialogs are missing "Navigate to parent node"

>> functionality.

>>

>> Thanks for taking the time and eventually forwarding my

>> concerns/suggestions

>> to the Vista/Server 2008 group.

>>

>> Axel Dahmen

>> http://www.axeldahmen.com

>>

March 28, 2008

Re: Windows Vista/Windows Server 2008: GUI Improvements Required

I voted =). I usually do when I find a good post. Yes I could see with

programming needing the keyboard a lot. I don't do much programming anymore

except scripting vbscript for AD.

Vista took quite a bit of functionality away that they had in XP. #1 being

for me the File types. Now I cannot change the icons of my programs when they

get corrupted or stolen by another program. I am having to go directly to

the registy which is a pain.

I don't use 2008 server, just Vista. It is the English version - Home

Premium as I don't use it at work (and won't because it is a bit of a

nightmare with no backwards compatability).

Cheers,

Lara

"Axel Dahmen" wrote:

> Hi Lara,

>

> thanks for your kind introduction *blush*...I found most of them in the

> Windows documentation back when W95 started..

>

> Being a software engineer I've got my hands on the keyboard most of the

> time (just like now) so it has become quicker for me to use these

> shortcuts than leaving keyboard, search for the mouse, search for the

> mouse pointer, search for the place I want to click, and so on... I use

> most of them without even thinking about them.

>

> And you can give focus to the IE7 address bar by hitting <ALT>+<D>?

> Strange.. though not impossible I guess. I'm using German versions of OS

> and software. With German IE6 it actually had been <ALT>+<S> to do this

> job (same for Firefox). At my job we're using English IE6, so I know the

> English keyboard combination from there. I've tried all possible keyboard

> combinations on my home computer now, from <ALT>+<A> to <ALT>+<Z>. None of

> them did the trick.

>

> Regarding the New Folder feature: Yes, it works in WE. Yet it doesn't work

> in Windows' so-called Common Dialogs. These Windows Common Dialogs are

> used by programs to provide "Open...", "Save" and "Save as..." features.

> You can check this by simply opening Notepad and trying to open a file

> from there (e.g. <CTRL>+<O>). What you see then is the Windows Common Open

> File Dialog. And there you can't create a new folder using the keyboard in

> Vista/Windows Server 2008.

>

> Perhaps you might want to vote for my suggestion? The more votes it gets

> the more probably MS will read it and amend Vista/Windows Server 2008.

>

> Regards,

> http://www.axeldahmen.com

> Axel Dahmen

>

> -------------------

> "lforbes" <lforbes@discussions.microsoft.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag

> news:A800C48E-7899-4D93-A739-DF1FCB8F58E2@microsoft.com...

> > Wow, I have been a network tech for 20 years and never knew half of

> those

> > keyboard shortcuts. Where did you learn them all? I guess if you depend

> on

> > them then it can be very annoying. I run Windows 2003/XP in my network

> at

> > work but Vista at home. I use the mouse 99% of the time. I only use the

> > keyboard when the mouse isn't installed or dead.

> >

> > I agree with a few but some shortcuts you listed work for me in Vista.

> The

> > create new folder and the Alt-D for IE 7 both work. Thanks for those by

> the

> > way. That is pretty cool. Even MS techs couldn't give me the shortcut

> for new

> > folder. I BEGGED that they include an easy one for Vista but they never

> did.

> > One thing I miss from my Mac Days.

> >

> > I actually FAR prefer the windows XP Windows Explorer too. I LOVED the

> > folder button where I could just click on it to switch back and forth.

> With

> > Vista it is more convulted with having to change the "Organize - Layout"

> and

> > then it is changed for EVERY window and not just the one I am viewing at

> the

> > moment.

> >

> > No I cannot say that I am impressed at all with Vista. I like a few new

> > features but overall XP is far superiour. I have been using it for over

> a

> > year now and XP at work. Still prefer XP too.

> >

> > Cheers,

> > Lara

> >

> > "Axel Dahmen" wrote:

> >

> >> Hi,

> >>

> >> Evaluating Vista/Server 2008 for migration from W2k, W2k3, XP I noticed

> a

> >> couple of drawbacks when using those OSs.

> >>

> >> I've compiled the problems and put them all into one issue here instead

> of

> >> creating separate issues for all of them.

> >>

> >> -- 1 -- : Keyboard handling: It's very straining to use Vista/Server

> 2008

> >> by

> >> keyboard. It should by far be better supported, like in the previous

> >> Windows

> >> versions. Current drawbacks are:

> >>

> >> -- 1.1 -- : Common Dialog File Open/Save boxes are missing keyboard

> >> shortcuts, e.g. for creating new folders (previously

> <ALT>+<F>-<W>-<F>).

> >>

> >> -- 1.2 -- : Using Windows Explorer with the keyboard becomes horror:

> >>

> >> -- 1.2.1 -- : Opening Windows Explorer (=WE) with <FLAG>+<E> gives

> focus

> >> to

> >> the ListView instead of the TreeView control. So a reverse Tab

> >> <SHIFT>+<TAB>

> >> is required to navigate the tree. (It's very uncommon that any action

> is

> >> required at the "Computer" node, so TreeView navigation is usually

> >> *always*

> >> the first thing to be done in Windows Explorer.)

> >>

> >> -- 1.2.2 -- : Navigating the WE TreeView doesn't update the ListView.

> It's

> >> required to hit the [RETURN] key to get the ListView updated. This

> makes

> >> browsing quite awkward to do.

> >>

> >> -- 1.2.3 -- : Tab sequence in WE is very strange! Usually, switching

> focus

> >> between TreeView and ListView is just a one-tab sequence (you just have

> to

> >> press the <TAB> key once). But after hitting [RETURN] on the TreeView,

> the

> >> ListView becomes 4 <TAB> hits away!

> >>

> >> -- 1.3 -- : SQL Server 2005 Management Studio doesn't provide a quick

> >> "Open

> >> Database Connection" shortcut (previously <CTRL> + <O>, now only

> >> <F8>-<ALT>+<V> [on German version])

> >>

> >> -- 1.4 -- : Internet Explorer 7 doesn't provide a shortcut for setting

> >> focus

> >> to the address bar (formerly <ALT>+<D>). So it's very hard to correct

> >> typos

> >> after hitting [RETURN]. (Awkward, but yet best workaround: <CTRL>+<E> -

> >> <SHIFT>+<TAB> - <SHIFT>+<TAB>)

> >>

> >> -- 1.5 -- : The new Start menu is very unhandy.

> >> Just mentioning it to keep the classic view available in future Windows

> >> versions: I've traditionally arranged my (classic) start menu tree in a

> >> way

> >> to quickly reach any program by simply pressing the <FLAG> key plus the

> >> first

> >> letter of a Start menu entry to finally reach a program entry (e.g.

> >> <FLAG>--<O>-<W> which is "Programs - Office - Word 2003" ...or...

> >> <FLAG>++<D>+<8>+<S> which is "Programs - Development Tools -

> 8_Visual

> >> Studio 2005 - S_Visual Studio"). (This is more easy to do in German

> than

> >> in

> >> English because of default entries starting with the same letter in

> >> English

> >> [e.g. "Accessories/Administrative Tools"]). So I'll stick to the

> classic

> >> Start menu version.

> >>

> >> -- 2 -- : Copy File dialog doesn't provide useful information. Even

> after

> >> updating Vista to SP1, the Copy File dialog still doesn't display which

> >> file

> >> currently is copied. So when copying large files the user can't tell

> which

> >> file is currently copied and, thus, isn't free for use.

> >>

> >> -- 3 -- : Color Schema: Hover color is (almost) same as selection

> color.

> >> So

> >> it's hard to tell if an entry has been selected or if the mouse pointer

> is

> >> just hovering above a ListView entry in WE.

> >>

> >> -- 4 -- : Back button in WE doesn't provide a history list. So it's

> >> impossible to go back in history and skip a recently visited folder

> that

> >> might have become unavailable.

> >>

> >> -- 5 -- : WE and Common Dialogs are missing "Navigate to parent node"

> >> functionality.

> >>

> >> Thanks for taking the time and eventually forwarding my

> >> concerns/suggestions

> >> to the Vista/Server 2008 group.

> >>

> >> Axel Dahmen

> >> http://www.axeldahmen.com

> >>

>

March 29, 2008

Re: Windows Vista/Windows Server 2008: GUI Improvements Required

Great, thanks ^^

Regarding your trouble with file types... have you tried "Settings > Control Panel > Standard Programs"? Although I couldn't find an option to change file type icons, you could easily assign programs to file types there. Is that perhaps what you're searching for?

Best wishes,

Axel

---------------

"lforbes" <lforbes@discussions.microsoft.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:CB7D8B08-7D3D-431F-9823-CC8C8906C39A@microsoft.com...

>I voted =). I usually do when I find a good post. Yes I could see with

> programming needing the keyboard a lot. I don't do much programming anymore

> except scripting vbscript for AD.

>

> Vista took quite a bit of functionality away that they had in XP. #1 being

> for me the File types. Now I cannot change the icons of my programs when they

> get corrupted or stolen by another program. I am having to go directly to

> the registy which is a pain.

>

> I don't use 2008 server, just Vista. It is the English version - Home

> Premium as I don't use it at work (and won't because it is a bit of a

> nightmare with no backwards compatability).

>

> Cheers,

> Lara

>

> "Axel Dahmen" wrote:

>

>> Hi Lara,

>>

>> thanks for your kind introduction *blush*...I found most of them in the

>> Windows documentation back when W95 started..

>>

>> Being a software engineer I've got my hands on the keyboard most of the

>> time (just like now) so it has become quicker for me to use these

>> shortcuts than leaving keyboard, search for the mouse, search for the

>> mouse pointer, search for the place I want to click, and so on... I use

>> most of them without even thinking about them.

>>

>> And you can give focus to the IE7 address bar by hitting <ALT>+<D>?

>> Strange.. though not impossible I guess. I'm using German versions of OS

>> and software. With German IE6 it actually had been <ALT>+<S> to do this

>> job (same for Firefox). At my job we're using English IE6, so I know the

>> English keyboard combination from there. I've tried all possible keyboard

>> combinations on my home computer now, from <ALT>+<A> to <ALT>+<Z>. None of

>> them did the trick.

>>

>> Regarding the New Folder feature: Yes, it works in WE. Yet it doesn't work

>> in Windows' so-called Common Dialogs. These Windows Common Dialogs are

>> used by programs to provide "Open...", "Save" and "Save as..." features.

>> You can check this by simply opening Notepad and trying to open a file

>> from there (e.g. <CTRL>+<O>). What you see then is the Windows Common Open

>> File Dialog. And there you can't create a new folder using the keyboard in

>> Vista/Windows Server 2008.

>>

>> Perhaps you might want to vote for my suggestion? The more votes it gets

>> the more probably MS will read it and amend Vista/Windows Server 2008.

>>

>> Regards,

>> http://www.axeldahmen.com

>> Axel Dahmen

>>

>> -------------------

>> "lforbes" <lforbes@discussions.microsoft.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag

>> news:A800C48E-7899-4D93-A739-DF1FCB8F58E2@microsoft.com...

>> > Wow, I have been a network tech for 20 years and never knew half of

>> those

>> > keyboard shortcuts. Where did you learn them all? I guess if you depend

>> on

>> > them then it can be very annoying. I run Windows 2003/XP in my network

>> at

>> > work but Vista at home. I use the mouse 99% of the time. I only use the

>> > keyboard when the mouse isn't installed or dead.

>> >

>> > I agree with a few but some shortcuts you listed work for me in Vista.

>> The

>> > create new folder and the Alt-D for IE 7 both work. Thanks for those by

>> the

>> > way. That is pretty cool. Even MS techs couldn't give me the shortcut

>> for new

>> > folder. I BEGGED that they include an easy one for Vista but they never

>> did.

>> > One thing I miss from my Mac Days.

>> >

>> > I actually FAR prefer the windows XP Windows Explorer too. I LOVED the

>> > folder button where I could just click on it to switch back and forth.

>> With

>> > Vista it is more convulted with having to change the "Organize - Layout"

>> and

>> > then it is changed for EVERY window and not just the one I am viewing at

>> the

>> > moment.

>> >

>> > No I cannot say that I am impressed at all with Vista. I like a few new

>> > features but overall XP is far superiour. I have been using it for over

>> a

>> > year now and XP at work. Still prefer XP too.

>> >

>> > Cheers,

>> > Lara

>> >

>> > "Axel Dahmen" wrote:

>> >

>> >> Hi,

>> >>

>> >> Evaluating Vista/Server 2008 for migration from W2k, W2k3, XP I noticed

>> a

>> >> couple of drawbacks when using those OSs.

>> >>

>> >> I've compiled the problems and put them all into one issue here instead

>> of

>> >> creating separate issues for all of them.

>> >>

>> >> -- 1 -- : Keyboard handling: It's very straining to use Vista/Server

>> 2008

>> >> by

>> >> keyboard. It should by far be better supported, like in the previous

>> >> Windows

>> >> versions. Current drawbacks are:

>> >>

>> >> -- 1.1 -- : Common Dialog File Open/Save boxes are missing keyboard

>> >> shortcuts, e.g. for creating new folders (previously

>> <ALT>+<F>-<W>-<F>).

>> >>

>> >> -- 1.2 -- : Using Windows Explorer with the keyboard becomes horror:

>> >>

>> >> -- 1.2.1 -- : Opening Windows Explorer (=WE) with <FLAG>+<E> gives

>> focus

>> >> to

>> >> the ListView instead of the TreeView control. So a reverse Tab

>> >> <SHIFT>+<TAB>

>> >> is required to navigate the tree. (It's very uncommon that any action

>> is

>> >> required at the "Computer" node, so TreeView navigation is usually

>> >> *always*

>> >> the first thing to be done in Windows Explorer.)

>> >>

>> >> -- 1.2.2 -- : Navigating the WE TreeView doesn't update the ListView.

>> It's

>> >> required to hit the [RETURN] key to get the ListView updated. This

>> makes

>> >> browsing quite awkward to do.

>> >>

>> >> -- 1.2.3 -- : Tab sequence in WE is very strange! Usually, switching

>> focus

>> >> between TreeView and ListView is just a one-tab sequence (you just have

>> to

>> >> press the <TAB> key once). But after hitting [RETURN] on the TreeView,

>> the

>> >> ListView becomes 4 <TAB> hits away!

>> >>

>> >> -- 1.3 -- : SQL Server 2005 Management Studio doesn't provide a quick

>> >> "Open

>> >> Database Connection" shortcut (previously <CTRL> + <O>, now only

>> >> <F8>-<ALT>+<V> [on German version])

>> >>

>> >> -- 1.4 -- : Internet Explorer 7 doesn't provide a shortcut for setting

>> >> focus

>> >> to the address bar (formerly <ALT>+<D>). So it's very hard to correct

>> >> typos

>> >> after hitting [RETURN]. (Awkward, but yet best workaround: <CTRL>+<E> -

>> >> <SHIFT>+<TAB> - <SHIFT>+<TAB>)

>> >>

>> >> -- 1.5 -- : The new Start menu is very unhandy.

>> >> Just mentioning it to keep the classic view available in future Windows

>> >> versions: I've traditionally arranged my (classic) start menu tree in a

>> >> way

>> >> to quickly reach any program by simply pressing the <FLAG> key plus the

>> >> first

>> >> letter of a Start menu entry to finally reach a program entry (e.g.

>> >> <FLAG>--<O>-<W> which is "Programs - Office - Word 2003" ....or...

>> >> <FLAG>++<D>+<8>+<S> which is "Programs - Development Tools -

>> 8_Visual

>> >> Studio 2005 - S_Visual Studio"). (This is more easy to do in German

>> than

>> >> in

>> >> English because of default entries starting with the same letter in

>> >> English

>> >> [e.g. "Accessories/Administrative Tools"]). So I'll stick to the

>> classic

>> >> Start menu version.

>> >>

>> >> -- 2 -- : Copy File dialog doesn't provide useful information. Even

>> after

>> >> updating Vista to SP1, the Copy File dialog still doesn't display which

>> >> file

>> >> currently is copied. So when copying large files the user can't tell

>> which

>> >> file is currently copied and, thus, isn't free for use.

>> >>

>> >> -- 3 -- : Color Schema: Hover color is (almost) same as selection

>> color.

>> >> So

>> >> it's hard to tell if an entry has been selected or if the mouse pointer

>> is

>> >> just hovering above a ListView entry in WE.

>> >>

>> >> -- 4 -- : Back button in WE doesn't provide a history list. So it's

>> >> impossible to go back in history and skip a recently visited folder

>> that

>> >> might have become unavailable.

>> >>

>> >> -- 5 -- : WE and Common Dialogs are missing "Navigate to parent node"

>> >> functionality.

>> >>

>> >> Thanks for taking the time and eventually forwarding my

>> >> concerns/suggestions

>> >> to the Vista/Server 2008 group.

>> >>

>> >> Axel Dahmen

>> >> http://www.axeldahmen.com

>> >>

>>

March 30, 2008

Re: Windows Vista/Windows Server 2008: GUI Improvements Required

Oh, that is the most USELESS utility MS has ever invented - (called Default

Programs).

It does NOTHING to the registry at all. It doesn't even modify it at all.

I have Office 2003 and 2007 on the same computer. I teach a lot of courses

in Office 2003 so I have to write manuals for it so I need both.

I can set Office 2007 as the default for opening DOC files in the Default

Programs until I am blue in the face. Still doesn't change it from 2003. I

have a reg patch to do it now because EVERY time Windows Updates installs an

update for Office 2003, BANG it takes back all the default open extensions.

It is the same for .mp3 and .avi. I have Nero Showtime that stole the

registry settings for mp3 and avi even though I uninstalled it. I have set

Media Player as the Default in Default Programs- Set Default Programs +

Associate File Type + Change Autoplay Settings + Set program access and

computer defaults.

Showtime STILL was the default in the registry. Once I change the registry

it was fine.

Again it is pretty hokey. I thought Vista was suppose to improve XP.

However, different is not always better. In fact most of the time it is worse.

It makes me remember how Frustrated I was being a Mac Tech (for 20 years)

and how Apple made it almost impossible to change any file type association.

Microsoft did copy Mac with Vista. However, I actually don't see copying Mac

as a good thing.

Cheers,

Lara

"Axel Dahmen" wrote:

> Great, thanks ^^

>

> Regarding your trouble with file types... have you tried "Settings >

> Control Panel > Standard Programs"? Although I couldn't find an option to

> change file type icons, you could easily assign programs to file types

> there. Is that perhaps what you're searching for?

>

> Best wishes,

> Axel

>

> ---------------

> "lforbes" <lforbes@discussions.microsoft.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag

> news:CB7D8B08-7D3D-431F-9823-CC8C8906C39A@microsoft.com...

> >I voted =). I usually do when I find a good post. Yes I could see with

> > programming needing the keyboard a lot. I don't do much programming

> anymore

> > except scripting vbscript for AD.

> >

> > Vista took quite a bit of functionality away that they had in XP. #1

> being

> > for me the File types. Now I cannot change the icons of my programs when

> they

> > get corrupted or stolen by another program. I am having to go directly

> to

> > the registy which is a pain.

> >

> > I don't use 2008 server, just Vista. It is the English version - Home

> > Premium as I don't use it at work (and won't because it is a bit of a

> > nightmare with no backwards compatability).

> >

> > Cheers,

> > Lara

> >

> > "Axel Dahmen" wrote:

> >

> >> Hi Lara,

> >>

> >> thanks for your kind introduction *blush*...I found most of them in the

> >> Windows documentation back when W95 started..

> >>

> >> Being a software engineer I've got my hands on the keyboard most of the

> >> time (just like now) so it has become quicker for me to use these

> >> shortcuts than leaving keyboard, search for the mouse, search for the

> >> mouse pointer, search for the place I want to click, and so on... I use

> >> most of them without even thinking about them.

> >>

> >> And you can give focus to the IE7 address bar by hitting <ALT>+<D>?

> >> Strange.. though not impossible I guess. I'm using German versions of

> OS

> >> and software. With German IE6 it actually had been <ALT>+<S> to do this

> >> job (same for Firefox). At my job we're using English IE6, so I know

> the

> >> English keyboard combination from there. I've tried all possible

> keyboard

> >> combinations on my home computer now, from <ALT>+<A> to <ALT>+<Z>. None

> of

> >> them did the trick.

> >>

> >> Regarding the New Folder feature: Yes, it works in WE. Yet it doesn't

> work

> >> in Windows' so-called Common Dialogs. These Windows Common Dialogs are

> >> used by programs to provide "Open...", "Save" and "Save as..."

> features.

> >> You can check this by simply opening Notepad and trying to open a file

> >> from there (e.g. <CTRL>+<O>). What you see then is the Windows Common

> Open

> >> File Dialog. And there you can't create a new folder using the keyboard

> in

> >> Vista/Windows Server 2008.

> >>

> >> Perhaps you might want to vote for my suggestion? The more votes it

> gets

> >> the more probably MS will read it and amend Vista/Windows Server 2008.

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> http://www.axeldahmen.com

> >> Axel Dahmen

> >>

> >> -------------------

> >> "lforbes" <lforbes@discussions.microsoft.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag

> >> news:A800C48E-7899-4D93-A739-DF1FCB8F58E2@microsoft.com...

> >> > Wow, I have been a network tech for 20 years and never knew half of

> >> those

> >> > keyboard shortcuts. Where did you learn them all? I guess if you

> depend

> >> on

> >> > them then it can be very annoying. I run Windows 2003/XP in my

> network

> >> at

> >> > work but Vista at home. I use the mouse 99% of the time. I only use

> the

> >> > keyboard when the mouse isn't installed or dead.

> >> >

> >> > I agree with a few but some shortcuts you listed work for me in

> Vista.

> >> The

> >> > create new folder and the Alt-D for IE 7 both work. Thanks for those

> by

> >> the

> >> > way. That is pretty cool. Even MS techs couldn't give me the shortcut

> >> for new

> >> > folder. I BEGGED that they include an easy one for Vista but they

> never

> >> did.

> >> > One thing I miss from my Mac Days.

> >> >

> >> > I actually FAR prefer the windows XP Windows Explorer too. I LOVED

> the

> >> > folder button where I could just click on it to switch back and

> forth.

> >> With

> >> > Vista it is more convulted with having to change the "Organize -

> Layout"

> >> and

> >> > then it is changed for EVERY window and not just the one I am viewing

> at

> >> the

> >> > moment.

> >> >

> >> > No I cannot say that I am impressed at all with Vista. I like a few

> new

> >> > features but overall XP is far superiour. I have been using it for

> over

> >> a

> >> > year now and XP at work. Still prefer XP too.

> >> >

> >> > Cheers,

> >> > Lara

> >> >

> >> > "Axel Dahmen" wrote:

> >> >

> >> >> Hi,

> >> >>

> >> >> Evaluating Vista/Server 2008 for migration from W2k, W2k3, XP I

> noticed

> >> a

> >> >> couple of drawbacks when using those OSs.

> >> >>

> >> >> I've compiled the problems and put them all into one issue here

> instead

> >> of

> >> >> creating separate issues for all of them.

> >> >>

> >> >> -- 1 -- : Keyboard handling: It's very straining to use Vista/Server

> >> 2008

> >> >> by

> >> >> keyboard. It should by far be better supported, like in the previous

> >> >> Windows

> >> >> versions. Current drawbacks are:

> >> >>

> >> >> -- 1.1 -- : Common Dialog File Open/Save boxes are missing keyboard

> >> >> shortcuts, e.g. for creating new folders (previously

> >> <ALT>+<F>-<W>-<F>).

> >> >>

> >> >> -- 1.2 -- : Using Windows Explorer with the keyboard becomes horror:

> >> >>

> >> >> -- 1.2.1 -- : Opening Windows Explorer (=WE) with <FLAG>+<E> gives

> >> focus

> >> >> to

> >> >> the ListView instead of the TreeView control. So a reverse Tab

> >> >> <SHIFT>+<TAB>

> >> >> is required to navigate the tree. (It's very uncommon that any

> action

> >> is

> >> >> required at the "Computer" node, so TreeView navigation is usually

> >> >> *always*

> >> >> the first thing to be done in Windows Explorer.)

> >> >>

> >> >> -- 1.2.2 -- : Navigating the WE TreeView doesn't update the

> ListView.

> >> It's

> >> >> required to hit the [RETURN] key to get the ListView updated. This

> >> makes

> >> >> browsing quite awkward to do.

> >> >>

> >> >> -- 1.2.3 -- : Tab sequence in WE is very strange! Usually, switching

> >> focus

> >> >> between TreeView and ListView is just a one-tab sequence (you just

> have

> >> to

> >> >> press the <TAB> key once). But after hitting [RETURN] on the

> TreeView,

> >> the

> >> >> ListView becomes 4 <TAB> hits away!

> >> >>

> >> >> -- 1.3 -- : SQL Server 2005 Management Studio doesn't provide a

> quick

> >> >> "Open

> >> >> Database Connection" shortcut (previously <CTRL> + <O>, now only

> >> >> <F8>-<ALT>+<V> [on German version])

> >> >>

> >> >> -- 1.4 -- : Internet Explorer 7 doesn't provide a shortcut for

> setting

> >> >> focus

> >> >> to the address bar (formerly <ALT>+<D>). So it's very hard to

> correct

> >> >> typos

> >> >> after hitting [RETURN]. (Awkward, but yet best workaround:

> <CTRL>+<E> -

> >> >> <SHIFT>+<TAB> - <SHIFT>+<TAB>)

> >> >>

> >> >> -- 1.5 -- : The new Start menu is very unhandy.

> >> >> Just mentioning it to keep the classic view available in future

> Windows

> >> >> versions: I've traditionally arranged my (classic) start menu tree

> in a

> >> >> way

> >> >> to quickly reach any program by simply pressing the <FLAG> key plus

> the

> >> >> first

> >> >> letter of a Start menu entry to finally reach a program entry (e.g.

> >> >> <FLAG>--<O>-<W> which is "Programs - Office - Word 2003" ...or...

> >> >> <FLAG>++<D>+<8>+<S> which is "Programs - Development Tools -

> >> 8_Visual

> >> >> Studio 2005 - S_Visual Studio"). (This is more easy to do in German

> >> than

> >> >> in

> >> >> English because of default entries starting with the same letter in

> >> >> English

> >> >> [e.g. "Accessories/Administrative Tools"]). So I'll stick to the

> >> classic

> >> >> Start menu version.

> >> >>

> >> >> -- 2 -- : Copy File dialog doesn't provide useful information. Even

> >> after

> >> >> updating Vista to SP1, the Copy File dialog still doesn't display

> which

> >> >> file

> >> >> currently is copied. So when copying large files the user can't tell

> >> which

> >> >> file is currently copied and, thus, isn't free for use.

> >> >>

> >> >> -- 3 -- : Color Schema: Hover color is (almost) same as selection

> >> color.

> >> >> So

> >> >> it's hard to tell if an entry has been selected or if the mouse

> pointer

> >> is

> >> >> just hovering above a ListView entry in WE.

> >> >>

> >> >> -- 4 -- : Back button in WE doesn't provide a history list. So it's

> >> >> impossible to go back in history and skip a recently visited folder

> >> that

> >> >> might have become unavailable.

> >> >>

> >> >> -- 5 -- : WE and Common Dialogs are missing "Navigate to parent

> node"

> >> >> functionality.

> >> >>

> >> >> Thanks for taking the time and eventually forwarding my

> >> >> concerns/suggestions

> >> >> to the Vista/Server 2008 group.

> >> >>

> >> >> Axel Dahmen

> >> >> http://www.axeldahmen.com

> >> >>

> >>

>

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