Life after Windows 98SE

April 22, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

Bill in Co. wrote:

....snip

| Actually, it "seems" this was a "blessing" in disguise, as I just

| tried "upgrading" my Win98 Dell's power supply to a quieter one, and,

| due to Dell's proprietary pin layouts, now have a dead MB.

| Ironically, I bought one of those "quiet power supply" replacements

| (even with some special Dell connectors) in the hopes of quieting

| that PC down. It is VERY quiet now, as in .... completely dead.

You KILLED your Win98! Ohhhh! It's the XP-irradiation responsible! It

demented you and cajoled you & made you plug in a poison, purple power

supply to match the color of your irradiated toes! I KNEW it would

happen! Ohhhhhh!

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

April 22, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

PCR wrote:

> Bill in Co. wrote:

>

> ...snip

>> Actually, it "seems" this was a "blessing" in disguise, as I just

>> tried "upgrading" my Win98 Dell's power supply to a quieter one, and,

>> due to Dell's proprietary pin layouts, now have a dead MB.

>> Ironically, I bought one of those "quiet power supply" replacements

>> (even with some special Dell connectors) in the hopes of quieting

>> that PC down. It is VERY quiet now, as in .... completely dead.

>

> You KILLED your Win98! Ohhhh! It's the XP-irradiation responsible! It

> demented you and cajoled you & made you plug in a poison, purple power

> supply to match the color of your irradiated toes! I KNEW it would

> happen! Ohhhhhh!

Well, I'm not done with it yet! I found and ordered an exact replacement

MB from eBay, so wish me luck!!

But I am a bit pissed - this old Dell and its damn proprietary connector

wiring, Bah Humbug!.

April 22, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

Bill in Co. wrote:

| PCR wrote:

|> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>

|> ...snip

|>> Actually, it "seems" this was a "blessing" in disguise, as I just

|>> tried "upgrading" my Win98 Dell's power supply to a quieter one,

|>> and, due to Dell's proprietary pin layouts, now have a dead MB.

|>> Ironically, I bought one of those "quiet power supply" replacements

|>> (even with some special Dell connectors) in the hopes of quieting

|>> that PC down. It is VERY quiet now, as in .... completely dead.

|>

|> You KILLED your Win98! Ohhhh! It's the XP-irradiation responsible! It

|> demented you and cajoled you & made you plug in a poison, purple

|> power supply to match the color of your irradiated toes! I KNEW it

|> would happen! Ohhhhhh!

|

| Well, I'm not done with it yet! I found and ordered an exact

| replacement MB from eBay, so wish me luck!!

Good luck-- absolutely! Get that Win98 back!

| But I am a bit pissed - this old Dell and its damn proprietary

| connector wiring, Bah Humbug!.

In truth, that was fairly brave of you to try replacing a power supply.

I hope never to have to do it!

By the way, in that last thread in which we were speaking (Inbox

contents simply vanished), I tried 3 times to post a response to your

latest-- but it would post! It wasn't much of anything, though-- we were

both just about done & beginning to repeat.

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

April 22, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

PCR wrote:

> Bill in Co. wrote:

>> PCR wrote:

>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>

>>> ...snip

>>>> Actually, it "seems" this was a "blessing" in disguise, as I just

>>>> tried "upgrading" my Win98 Dell's power supply to a quieter one,

>>>> and, due to Dell's proprietary pin layouts, now have a dead MB.

>>>> Ironically, I bought one of those "quiet power supply" replacements

>>>> (even with some special Dell connectors) in the hopes of quieting

>>>> that PC down. It is VERY quiet now, as in .... completely dead.

>>>

>>> You KILLED your Win98! Ohhhh! It's the XP-irradiation responsible! It

>>> demented you and cajoled you & made you plug in a poison, purple

>>> power supply to match the color of your irradiated toes! I KNEW it

>>> would happen! Ohhhhhh!

>>

>> Well, I'm not done with it yet! I found and ordered an exact

>> replacement MB from eBay, so wish me luck!!

>

> Good luck-- absolutely! Get that Win98 back!

>

>> But I am a bit pissed - this old Dell and its damn proprietary

>> connector wiring, Bah Humbug!.

>

> In truth, that was fairly brave of you to try replacing a power supply.

> I hope never to have to do it!

I did it to quiet that PC down (it is noticeably noiser than the new one).

Now it's .... VERY VERY quiet! :-)

Actually, I just tested the power supply with a voltmeter (finally found the

Dell wiring diagram), and found it's still ok. So - the MB is hosed.

But one is on its way.

> By the way, in that last thread in which we were speaking (Inbox

> contents simply vanished), I tried 3 times to post a response to your

> latest-- but it would post! It wasn't much of anything, though-- we were

> both just about done & beginning to repeat.

Why did it vanish?

BTW, I never heard back from you on why you didn't like the convenience of

the Tax programs instead of a spreadsheet on your computer (not on the

web!). See, it fills out (and can print) the forms for you, and you can

even efile if you want. And it's all on your computer after you install

the program.

April 22, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

Bill in Co. wrote:

| PCR wrote:

|> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>> PCR wrote:

|>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>>>

|>>> ...snip

|>>>> Actually, it "seems" this was a "blessing" in disguise, as I just

|>>>> tried "upgrading" my Win98 Dell's power supply to a quieter one,

|>>>> and, due to Dell's proprietary pin layouts, now have a dead MB.

|>>>> Ironically, I bought one of those "quiet power supply"

|>>>> replacements (even with some special Dell connectors) in the

|>>>> hopes of quieting that PC down. It is VERY quiet now, as in

|>>>> .... completely dead.

|>>>

|>>> You KILLED your Win98! Ohhhh! It's the XP-irradiation responsible!

|>>> It demented you and cajoled you & made you plug in a poison, purple

|>>> power supply to match the color of your irradiated toes! I KNEW it

|>>> would happen! Ohhhhhh!

|>>

|>> Well, I'm not done with it yet! I found and ordered an exact

|>> replacement MB from eBay, so wish me luck!!

|>

|> Good luck-- absolutely! Get that Win98 back!

|>

|>> But I am a bit pissed - this old Dell and its damn proprietary

|>> connector wiring, Bah Humbug!.

|>

|> In truth, that was fairly brave of you to try replacing a power

|> supply. I hope never to have to do it!

|

| I did it to quiet that PC down (it is noticeably noiser than the new

| one). Now it's .... VERY VERY quiet! :-)

Uhuh. That part was a success. But earplugs would have been better!

| Actually, I just tested the power supply with a voltmeter (finally

| found the Dell wiring diagram), and found it's still ok. So - the

| MB is hosed.

I guess I must agree. If the old one tests well & is plugged as it was

before, it should work as before, I think. Either the MB is gone or some

smaller component on it that gets power first is gone. But I'm afraid I

know little or nothing about this.

(1) Do all the peripherals such as the hard drives require the MB to

work to get any sound out of them?

(2) Is there any evidence of burning anywhere?

(3) Was there any noise after the replacement power supply was plugged

in just before things went dead-- like the sound of an electric chair or

something?

| But one is on its way.

Very good.

|> By the way, in that last thread in which we were speaking (Inbox

|> contents simply vanished), I tried 3 times to post a response to your

|> latest-- but it would post! It wasn't much of anything, though-- we

|> were both just about done & beginning to repeat.

|

| Why did it vanish?

I don't know whether my 3 posts got through & vanished or just never got

through. They are in my Sent Items folder, but I never saw them in the

thread. It wasn't the problem of reaching the size limit of a thread

segment; I never got that message. I thought it might be an early sign

of XP-poisoning on your part. However, I think MEB or someone once

reported he couldn't post to me in a certain thread-- so it couldn't be

that!

| BTW, I never heard back from you on why you didn't like the

| convenience of the Tax programs instead of a spreadsheet on your

| computer (not on the web!). See, it fills out (and can print) the

| forms for you, and you can even efile if you want. And it's all on

| your computer after you install the program.

That's the thread I'm speaking of! I couldn't post my answer to that--

but it was pretty much the same as I posted earlier, anyhow.

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

April 22, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

PCR wrote:

> Bill in Co. wrote:

>> PCR wrote:

>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>> PCR wrote:

>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>> ...snip

>>>>>> Actually, it "seems" this was a "blessing" in disguise, as I just

>>>>>> tried "upgrading" my Win98 Dell's power supply to a quieter one,

>>>>>> and, due to Dell's proprietary pin layouts, now have a dead MB.

>>>>>> Ironically, I bought one of those "quiet power supply"

>>>>>> replacements (even with some special Dell connectors) in the

>>>>>> hopes of quieting that PC down. It is VERY quiet now, as in

>>>>>> .... completely dead.

>>>>>

>>>>> You KILLED your Win98! Ohhhh! It's the XP-irradiation responsible!

>>>>> It demented you and cajoled you & made you plug in a poison, purple

>>>>> power supply to match the color of your irradiated toes! I KNEW it

>>>>> would happen! Ohhhhhh!

>>>>

>>>> Well, I'm not done with it yet! I found and ordered an exact

>>>> replacement MB from eBay, so wish me luck!!

>>>

>>> Good luck-- absolutely! Get that Win98 back!

>>>

>>>> But I am a bit pissed - this old Dell and its damn proprietary

>>>> connector wiring, Bah Humbug!.

>>>

>>> In truth, that was fairly brave of you to try replacing a power

>>> supply. I hope never to have to do it!

>>

>> I did it to quiet that PC down (it is noticeably noiser than the new

>> one). Now it's .... VERY VERY quiet! :-)

>

> Uhuh. That part was a success. But earplugs would have been better!

>

>> Actually, I just tested the power supply with a voltmeter (finally

>> found the Dell wiring diagram), and found it's still ok. So - the

>> MB is hosed.

>

> I guess I must agree. If the old one tests well & is plugged as it was

> before, it should work as before, I think. Either the MB is gone or some

> smaller component on it that gets power first is gone.

Most of those components (and ICs) are soldered in, and I bet several were

blown, due to the miswired power supply (putting the wrong voltages on the

wrong pins).

So it's not practical replacing the individual components. These old

motherboards aren't all that expensive anyways.

> But I'm afraid I know little or nothing about this.

>

> (1) Do all the peripherals such as the hard drives require the MB to

> work to get any sound out of them?

The problem was that after the MB is fried it can prevent the power supply

from working, because the power supply gets a turn-on signal from the MB

when you push the power switch ON. (the on switch is not directly wired to

the power supply).

So if that signal isn't seen and recognized anymore, you get no power from

the power supply, because it's still off, but waiting for that signal.

> (2) Is there any evidence of burning anywhere?

Nope.

> (3) Was there any noise after the replacement power supply was plugged

> in just before things went dead-- like the sound of an electric chair or

> something?

Nope. It was quiet. All was - and still IS - Quiet, on the Western

Front.

>> But one is on its way.

>

> Very good.

I hope so.

More below...

>>> By the way, in that last thread in which we were speaking (Inbox

>>> contents simply vanished), I tried 3 times to post a response to your

>>> latest-- but it would post! It wasn't much of anything, though-- we

>>> were both just about done & beginning to repeat.

>>

>> Why did it vanish?

>

> I don't know whether my 3 posts got through & vanished or just never got

> through. They are in my Sent Items folder, but I never saw them in the

> thread. It wasn't the problem of reaching the size limit of a thread

> segment; I never got that message. I thought it might be an early sign

> of XP-poisoning on your part. However, I think MEB or someone once

> reported he couldn't post to me in a certain thread-- so it couldn't be

> that!

>

>> BTW, I never heard back from you on why you didn't like the

>> convenience of the Tax programs instead of a spreadsheet on your

>> computer (not on the web!). See, it fills out (and can print) the

>> forms for you, and you can even efile if you want. And it's all on

>> your computer after you install the program.

>

> That's the thread I'm speaking of! I couldn't post my answer to that--

> but it was pretty much the same as I posted earlier, anyhow.

Well, I thought you didn't answer it because you had thought the tax

programs were online, but they're not (well, some are, but I never use

those). You can do it ALL on your own computer (you get a CD to install

the program, and it does all the work for you.

April 24, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

Bill in Co. wrote:

| PCR wrote:

|> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>> PCR wrote:

|>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>>>> PCR wrote:

|>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>>>>>

|>>>>> ...snip

|>>>>>> Actually, it "seems" this was a "blessing" in disguise, as I

|>>>>>> just tried "upgrading" my Win98 Dell's power supply to a

|>>>>>> quieter one, and, due to Dell's proprietary pin layouts, now

|>>>>>> have a dead MB. Ironically, I bought one of those "quiet power

|>>>>>> supply" replacements (even with some special Dell connectors)

|>>>>>> in the hopes of quieting that PC down. It is VERY quiet now,

|>>>>>> as in .... completely dead.

|>>>>>

|>>>>> You KILLED your Win98! Ohhhh! It's the XP-irradiation

|>>>>> responsible! It demented you and cajoled you & made you plug in

|>>>>> a poison, purple power supply to match the color of your

|>>>>> irradiated toes! I KNEW it would happen! Ohhhhhh!

|>>>>

|>>>> Well, I'm not done with it yet! I found and ordered an exact

|>>>> replacement MB from eBay, so wish me luck!!

|>>>

|>>> Good luck-- absolutely! Get that Win98 back!

|>>>

|>>>> But I am a bit pissed - this old Dell and its damn proprietary

|>>>> connector wiring, Bah Humbug!.

|>>>

|>>> In truth, that was fairly brave of you to try replacing a power

|>>> supply. I hope never to have to do it!

|>>

|>> I did it to quiet that PC down (it is noticeably noiser than the new

|>> one). Now it's .... VERY VERY quiet! :-)

|>

|> Uhuh. That part was a success. But earplugs would have been better!

|>

|>> Actually, I just tested the power supply with a voltmeter (finally

|>> found the Dell wiring diagram), and found it's still ok. So - the

|>> MB is hosed.

|>

|> I guess I must agree. If the old one tests well & is plugged as it

|> was before, it should work as before, I think. Either the MB is gone

|> or some smaller component on it that gets power first is gone.

|

| Most of those components (and ICs) are soldered in, and I bet several

| were blown, due to the miswired power supply (putting the wrong

| voltages on the wrong pins).

| So it's not practical replacing the individual components. These

| old motherboards aren't all that expensive anyways.

I see. Yea, that gets worse to consider multiple components may be

wrecked, & I see there is no sign of singeing anywhere. And I personally

would suspect I could be doing more damage than existed in the first

place, if soldering is involved! In fact, I wouldn't want to do a whole

MB, either. That sounds as tough or worse than a power supply, even!

Sheesh-- but keep at it! You have no choice! Get that Win98 working!

|> But I'm afraid I know little or nothing about this.

|>

|> (1) Do all the peripherals such as the hard drives require the MB to

|> work to get any sound out of them?

|

| The problem was that after the MB is fried it can prevent the power

| supply from working, because the power supply gets a turn-on signal

| from the MB when you push the power switch ON. (the on switch is not

| directly wired to the power supply).

| So if that signal isn't seen and recognized anymore, you get no power

| from the power supply, because it's still off, but waiting for that

| signal.

Damn. So, just going by that...

(a) The motherboard could be dead.

(b) The original power supply could be dead.

I know you tested the power supply with a voltmeter & found it to be

good. I wonder...

Can it be the MB is also actually still good, & that the surge was

passed along to the hard drive(s)? Can it be the hard drive that is

dead? I can't seem to find it, but didn't someone in this thread post a

way to check that... maybe he said to plug in just the hard drive &

touch something to the chassis? Wait, it was philo, & he said...

.......Quote philo............

I assume it's an ATX you are asking about.

If it's an ATX supply just touch the green wire to the chassis.

I advise keeping one harddrive connected to it since it's a 'switching'

type

supply and may require

some load to run.

If it does not even turn on or power a HD it's dead of course...

but even if it powers the drive...I'd still check the other voltages as

it

could still be defective of course.

BTW: If the PSU smells burned or if there's a capacitor rattling around

inside...

you need not go any further <G>

.......EOQ.......................

I'm not sure my interpretation is correct. It would be nice if something

like that should spin the hard drive. Then, you could know it wasn't

dead.

|> (2) Is there any evidence of burning anywhere?

|

| Nope.

OK. Too bad.

|> (3) Was there any noise after the replacement power supply was

|> plugged in just before things went dead-- like the sound of an

|> electric chair or something?

|

| Nope. It was quiet. All was - and still IS - Quiet, on the

| Western Front.

Hmm. It seems strange that nothing at all would happen-- not even dying

words (which always are true) or a last gasp!

|>> But one is on its way.

|>

|> Very good.

|

| I hope so.

| More below...

|

|>>> By the way, in that last thread in which we were speaking (Inbox

|>>> contents simply vanished), I tried 3 times to post a response to

|>>> your latest-- but it would post! It wasn't much of anything,

|>>> though-- we were both just about done & beginning to repeat.

|>>

|>> Why did it vanish?

|>

|> I don't know whether my 3 posts got through & vanished or just never

|> got through. They are in my Sent Items folder, but I never saw them

|> in the thread. It wasn't the problem of reaching the size limit of a

|> thread segment; I never got that message. I thought it might be an

|> early sign of XP-poisoning on your part. However, I think MEB or

|> someone once reported he couldn't post to me in a certain thread--

|> so it couldn't be that!

|>

|>> BTW, I never heard back from you on why you didn't like the

|>> convenience of the Tax programs instead of a spreadsheet on your

|>> computer (not on the web!). See, it fills out (and can print) the

|>> forms for you, and you can even efile if you want. And it's all on

|>> your computer after you install the program.

|>

|> That's the thread I'm speaking of! I couldn't post my answer to

|> that-- but it was pretty much the same as I posted earlier, anyhow.

|

| Well, I thought you didn't answer it because you had thought the tax

| programs were online, but they're not (well, some are, but I never use

| those). You can do it ALL on your own computer (you get a CD to

| install the program, and it does all the work for you.

I think (but have never tried it) I could do that now at an IRS site (at

least the federal site)-- but I choose not to do it. I did what I could

with MSWorks Spreadsheet-- & I'm waiting patiently for my economic

stimulus check now! I believe I get the full $600.00!

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

April 24, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

PCR wrote:

> Bill in Co. wrote:

>> PCR wrote:

>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>> PCR wrote:

>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>>> PCR wrote:

>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> ...snip

>>>>>>>> Actually, it "seems" this was a "blessing" in disguise, as I

>>>>>>>> just tried "upgrading" my Win98 Dell's power supply to a

>>>>>>>> quieter one, and, due to Dell's proprietary pin layouts, now

>>>>>>>> have a dead MB. Ironically, I bought one of those "quiet power

>>>>>>>> supply" replacements (even with some special Dell connectors)

>>>>>>>> in the hopes of quieting that PC down. It is VERY quiet now,

>>>>>>>> as in .... completely dead.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> You KILLED your Win98! Ohhhh! It's the XP-irradiation

>>>>>>> responsible! It demented you and cajoled you & made you plug in

>>>>>>> a poison, purple power supply to match the color of your

>>>>>>> irradiated toes! I KNEW it would happen! Ohhhhhh!

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Well, I'm not done with it yet! I found and ordered an exact

>>>>>> replacement MB from eBay, so wish me luck!!

>>>>>

>>>>> Good luck-- absolutely! Get that Win98 back!

>>>>>

>>>>>> But I am a bit pissed - this old Dell and its damn proprietary

>>>>>> connector wiring, Bah Humbug!.

>>>>>

>>>>> In truth, that was fairly brave of you to try replacing a power

>>>>> supply. I hope never to have to do it!

>>>>

>>>> I did it to quiet that PC down (it is noticeably noiser than the new

>>>> one). Now it's .... VERY VERY quiet! :-)

>>>

>>> Uhuh. That part was a success. But earplugs would have been better!

>>>

>>>> Actually, I just tested the power supply with a voltmeter (finally

>>>> found the Dell wiring diagram), and found it's still ok. So - the

>>>> MB is hosed.

>>>

>>> I guess I must agree. If the old one tests well & is plugged as it

>>> was before, it should work as before, I think. Either the MB is gone

>>> or some smaller component on it that gets power first is gone.

>>

>> Most of those components (and ICs) are soldered in, and I bet several

>> were blown, due to the miswired power supply (putting the wrong

>> voltages on the wrong pins).

>> So it's not practical replacing the individual components. These

>> old motherboards aren't all that expensive anyways.

>

> I see. Yea, that gets worse to consider multiple components may be

> wrecked, & I see there is no sign of singeing anywhere. And I personally

> would suspect I could be doing more damage than existed in the first

> place, if soldering is involved! In fact, I wouldn't want to do a whole

> MB, either. That sounds as tough or worse than a power supply, even!

> Sheesh-- but keep at it! You have no choice! Get that Win98 working!

>

>>> But I'm afraid I know little or nothing about this.

>>>

>>> (1) Do all the peripherals such as the hard drives require the MB to

>>> work to get any sound out of them?

>>

>> The problem was that after the MB is fried it can prevent the power

>> supply from working, because the power supply gets a turn-on signal

>> from the MB when you push the power switch ON. (the on switch is not

>> directly wired to the power supply).

>> So if that signal isn't seen and recognized anymore, you get no power

>> from the power supply, because it's still off, but waiting for that

>> signal.

>

> Damn. So, just going by that...

>

> (a) The motherboard could be dead.

> (b) The original power supply could be dead.

>

> I know you tested the power supply with a voltmeter & found it to be

> good. I wonder...

>

> Can it be the MB is also actually still good, & that the surge was

> passed along to the hard drive(s)?

No, cause it didn't even POST. Just ... nothing (although I did hear a

very faint click when I turned it on)

> Can it be the hard drive that is

> dead? I can't seem to find it, but didn't someone in this thread post a

> way to check that... maybe he said to plug in just the hard drive &

> touch something to the chassis? Wait, it was philo, & he said...

>

> ......Quote philo............

> I assume it's an ATX you are asking about.

> If it's an ATX supply just touch the green wire to the chassis.

>

> I advise keeping one harddrive connected to it since it's a 'switching'

> type supply and may require some load to run.

>

> If it does not even turn on or power a HD it's dead of course...

> but even if it powers the drive...I'd still check the other voltages as

> it could still be defective of course.

I checked the voltages and the power supply (at least) seems ok. So at

least something is left. :-)

> BTW: If the PSU smells burned or if there's a capacitor rattling around

> inside...

> you need not go any further <G>

> ......EOQ.......................

>

> I'm not sure my interpretation is correct. It would be nice if something

> like that should spin the hard drive. Then, you could know it wasn't

> dead.

>

>>> (2) Is there any evidence of burning anywhere?

>>

>> Nope.

>

> OK. Too bad.

>

>>> (3) Was there any noise after the replacement power supply was

>>> plugged in just before things went dead-- like the sound of an

>>> electric chair or something?

>>

>> Nope. It was quiet. All was - and still IS - Quiet, on the

>> Western Front.

>

> Hmm. It seems strange that nothing at all would happen-- not even dying

> words (which always are true) or a last gasp!

Not if the power supply doesn't get the "good to go" signal (from some PS_ON

control IC, that presumably got initially destroyed) to turn it fully on.

Of course, I haven't done a close inspection of all the components on the

MB - I can always do that when I replace it. No rush now. :-)

Actually, I'm kinda lucky in one sense that it worked out this way, as

otherwise I might have destroyed some other things, like the disk drives

and/or PCI cards, if the power supply did turn on and stay on long enough to

damage everything connected to it.

I'm not totally sure that didn't happen, but I'm pretty sure (as I was able

to put power on one of the drives separately, and I heard it power up and

run)

>>>> But one is on its way.

>>>

>>> Very good.

>>

>> I hope so.

>> More below...

>>

>>>>> By the way, in that last thread in which we were speaking (Inbox

>>>>> contents simply vanished), I tried 3 times to post a response to

>>>>> your latest-- but it would post! It wasn't much of anything,

>>>>> though-- we were both just about done & beginning to repeat.

>>>>

>>>> Why did it vanish?

>>>

>>> I don't know whether my 3 posts got through & vanished or just never

>>> got through. They are in my Sent Items folder, but I never saw them

>>> in the thread. It wasn't the problem of reaching the size limit of a

>>> thread segment; I never got that message. I thought it might be an

>>> early sign of XP-poisoning on your part. However, I think MEB or

>>> someone once reported he couldn't post to me in a certain thread--

>>> so it couldn't be that!

>>>

>>>> BTW, I never heard back from you on why you didn't like the

>>>> convenience of the Tax programs instead of a spreadsheet on your

>>>> computer (not on the web!). See, it fills out (and can print) the

>>>> forms for you, and you can even efile if you want. And it's all on

>>>> your computer after you install the program.

>>>

>>> That's the thread I'm speaking of! I couldn't post my answer to

>>> that-- but it was pretty much the same as I posted earlier, anyhow.

>>

>> Well, I thought you didn't answer it because you had thought the tax

>> programs were online, but they're not (well, some are, but I never use

>> those). You can do it ALL on your own computer (you get a CD to

>> install the program, and it does all the work for you.

>

> I think (but have never tried it) I could do that now at an IRS site (at

> least the federal site)-- but I choose not to do it. I did what I could

> with MSWorks Spreadsheet-- & I'm waiting patiently for my economic

> stimulus check now! I believe I get the full $600.00!

NICE!!

> --

> Thanks or Good Luck,

> There may be humor in this post, and,

> Naturally, you will not sue,

> Should things get worse after this,

> PCR

> pcrrcp@netzero.net

April 24, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

Bill in Co. wrote:

| PCR wrote:

|> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>> PCR wrote:

|>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>>>> PCR wrote:

|>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>>>>>> PCR wrote:

|>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>>>>>>>

|>>>>>>> ...snip

|>>>>>>>> Actually, it "seems" this was a "blessing" in disguise, as I

|>>>>>>>> just tried "upgrading" my Win98 Dell's power supply to a

|>>>>>>>> quieter one, and, due to Dell's proprietary pin layouts, now

|>>>>>>>> have a dead MB. Ironically, I bought one of those "quiet power

|>>>>>>>> supply" replacements (even with some special Dell connectors)

|>>>>>>>> in the hopes of quieting that PC down. It is VERY quiet now,

|>>>>>>>> as in .... completely dead.

|>>>>>>>

|>>>>>>> You KILLED your Win98! Ohhhh! It's the XP-irradiation

|>>>>>>> responsible! It demented you and cajoled you & made you plug in

|>>>>>>> a poison, purple power supply to match the color of your

|>>>>>>> irradiated toes! I KNEW it would happen! Ohhhhhh!

|>>>>>>

|>>>>>> Well, I'm not done with it yet! I found and ordered an exact

|>>>>>> replacement MB from eBay, so wish me luck!!

|>>>>>

|>>>>> Good luck-- absolutely! Get that Win98 back!

|>>>>>

|>>>>>> But I am a bit pissed - this old Dell and its damn proprietary

|>>>>>> connector wiring, Bah Humbug!.

|>>>>>

|>>>>> In truth, that was fairly brave of you to try replacing a power

|>>>>> supply. I hope never to have to do it!

|>>>>

|>>>> I did it to quiet that PC down (it is noticeably noiser than the

|>>>> new one). Now it's .... VERY VERY quiet! :-)

|>>>

|>>> Uhuh. That part was a success. But earplugs would have been better!

|>>>

|>>>> Actually, I just tested the power supply with a voltmeter (finally

|>>>> found the Dell wiring diagram), and found it's still ok. So -

|>>>> the MB is hosed.

|>>>

|>>> I guess I must agree. If the old one tests well & is plugged as it

|>>> was before, it should work as before, I think. Either the MB is

|>>> gone or some smaller component on it that gets power first is gone.

|>>

|>> Most of those components (and ICs) are soldered in, and I bet

|>> several were blown, due to the miswired power supply (putting the

|>> wrong voltages on the wrong pins).

|>> So it's not practical replacing the individual components. These

|>> old motherboards aren't all that expensive anyways.

|>

|> I see. Yea, that gets worse to consider multiple components may be

|> wrecked, & I see there is no sign of singeing anywhere. And I

|> personally would suspect I could be doing more damage than existed

|> in the first place, if soldering is involved! In fact, I wouldn't

|> want to do a whole MB, either. That sounds as tough or worse than a

|> power supply, even! Sheesh-- but keep at it! You have no choice! Get

|> that Win98 working!

|>

|>>> But I'm afraid I know little or nothing about this.

|>>>

|>>> (1) Do all the peripherals such as the hard drives require the MB

|>>> to work to get any sound out of them?

|>>

|>> The problem was that after the MB is fried it can prevent the power

|>> supply from working, because the power supply gets a turn-on signal

|>> from the MB when you push the power switch ON. (the on switch is not

|>> directly wired to the power supply).

|>> So if that signal isn't seen and recognized anymore, you get no

|>> power from the power supply, because it's still off, but waiting

|>> for that signal.

|>

|> Damn. So, just going by that...

|>

|> (a) The motherboard could be dead.

|> (b) The original power supply could be dead.

|>

|> I know you tested the power supply with a voltmeter & found it to be

|> good. I wonder...

|>

|> Can it be the MB is also actually still good, & that the surge was

|> passed along to the hard drive(s)?

|

| No, cause it didn't even POST. Just ... nothing (although I did

| hear a very faint click when I turned it on)

Alright. I'm actually in over my head on this topic. I suppose there

would be a post even with a dead or disconnected hard drive. I do have

these files on C:\...

Directory of C:\

BC04 OBJ 184,333 02-09-00 10:29a BC04.OBJ

BIOS EXE 45,056 03-31-00 11:13a BIOS.exe

BIOS INI 76 03-30-00 12:31p BIOS.ini

But, judging from the contents of the .ini (just these two lines)...

PRODUCT=Samsung 8x DVD-ROM Drive

COMMAND=c:\fromdos bc04.obj /run

They seem to relate to the DC-ROM only.

|> Can it be the hard drive that is

|> dead? I can't seem to find it, but didn't someone in this thread

|> post a way to check that... maybe he said to plug in just the hard

|> drive & touch something to the chassis? Wait, it was philo, & he

|> said...

|>

|> ......Quote philo............

|> I assume it's an ATX you are asking about.

|> If it's an ATX supply just touch the green wire to the chassis.

|>

|> I advise keeping one harddrive connected to it since it's a

|> 'switching' type supply and may require some load to run.

|>

|> If it does not even turn on or power a HD it's dead of course...

|> but even if it powers the drive...I'd still check the other voltages

|> as it could still be defective of course.

|

| I checked the voltages and the power supply (at least) seems ok. So

| at least something is left. :-)

Yea. OK.

|> BTW: If the PSU smells burned or if there's a capacitor rattling

|> around inside...

|> you need not go any further <G>

|> ......EOQ.......................

|>

|> I'm not sure my interpretation is correct. It would be nice if

|> something like that should spin the hard drive. Then, you could know

|> it wasn't dead.

|>

|>>> (2) Is there any evidence of burning anywhere?

|>>

|>> Nope.

|>

|> OK. Too bad.

|>

|>>> (3) Was there any noise after the replacement power supply was

|>>> plugged in just before things went dead-- like the sound of an

|>>> electric chair or something?

|>>

|>> Nope. It was quiet. All was - and still IS - Quiet, on the

|>> Western Front.

|>

|> Hmm. It seems strange that nothing at all would happen-- not even

|> dying words (which always are true) or a last gasp!

|

| Not if the power supply doesn't get the "good to go" signal (from

| some PS_ON control IC, that presumably got initially destroyed) to

| turn it fully on.

OK. You've said it twice & I'm sure I've heard it before too. That's

good enough now. Yet... I'm still wondering why there was no bang (& not

even a whimper)... when that fatally pinned replacement power supply was

first connected. It doesn't seem right that a MB could die w/o a sound

at the hands of a power supply!

| Of course, I haven't done a close inspection of all the components on

| the MB - I can always do that when I replace it. No rush now. :-)

Right. Hopefully, all will be over when that is connected. I see you &

philo have discussed BIOS & USB considerations in the other thread.

Also, your CMOS battery was discussed.

Remember Candlin? He was big on replacing the CMOS battery first thing

when a computer went dead, IIRC. Could be you might try that in the

meantime.

| Actually, I'm kinda lucky in one sense that it worked out this way, as

| otherwise I might have destroyed some other things, like the disk

| drives and/or PCI cards, if the power supply did turn on and stay on

| long enough to damage everything connected to it.

I think things would/should have been quite noisy, if a lot of stuff got

wrecked.

| I'm not totally sure that didn't happen, but I'm pretty sure (as I

| was able to put power on one of the drives separately, and I heard it

| power up and run)

Alright! That's that, then-- the hard drive is fine! Very good!

|>>>> But one is on its way.

|>>>

|>>> Very good.

|>>

|>> I hope so.

|>> More below...

|>>

|>>>>> By the way, in that last thread in which we were speaking (Inbox

|>>>>> contents simply vanished), I tried 3 times to post a response to

|>>>>> your latest-- but it would post! It wasn't much of anything,

|>>>>> though-- we were both just about done & beginning to repeat.

|>>>>

|>>>> Why did it vanish?

|>>>

|>>> I don't know whether my 3 posts got through & vanished or just

|>>> never got through. They are in my Sent Items folder, but I never

|>>> saw them in the thread. It wasn't the problem of reaching the size

|>>> limit of a thread segment; I never got that message. I thought it

|>>> might be an early sign of XP-poisoning on your part. However, I

|>>> think MEB or someone once reported he couldn't post to me in a

|>>> certain thread-- so it couldn't be that!

|>>>

|>>>> BTW, I never heard back from you on why you didn't like the

|>>>> convenience of the Tax programs instead of a spreadsheet on your

|>>>> computer (not on the web!). See, it fills out (and can print)

|>>>> the forms for you, and you can even efile if you want. And it's

|>>>> all on your computer after you install the program.

|>>>

|>>> That's the thread I'm speaking of! I couldn't post my answer to

|>>> that-- but it was pretty much the same as I posted earlier, anyhow.

|>>

|>> Well, I thought you didn't answer it because you had thought the tax

|>> programs were online, but they're not (well, some are, but I never

|>> use those). You can do it ALL on your own computer (you get a

|>> CD to install the program, and it does all the work for you.

|>

|> I think (but have never tried it) I could do that now at an IRS site

|> (at least the federal site)-- but I choose not to do it. I did what

|> I could with MSWorks Spreadsheet-- & I'm waiting patiently for my

|> economic stimulus check now! I believe I get the full $600.00!

|

| NICE!!

Yea.

|> --

|> Thanks or Good Luck,

|> There may be humor in this post, and,

|> Naturally, you will not sue,

|> Should things get worse after this,

|> PCR

|> pcrrcp@netzero.net

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

April 24, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

PCR wrote:

> Bill in Co. wrote:

>> PCR wrote:

>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>> PCR wrote:

>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>>> PCR wrote:

>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>>>>> PCR wrote:

>>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> ...snip

>>>>>>>>>> Actually, it "seems" this was a "blessing" in disguise, as I

>>>>>>>>>> just tried "upgrading" my Win98 Dell's power supply to a

>>>>>>>>>> quieter one, and, due to Dell's proprietary pin layouts, now

>>>>>>>>>> have a dead MB. Ironically, I bought one of those "quiet power

>>>>>>>>>> supply" replacements (even with some special Dell connectors)

>>>>>>>>>> in the hopes of quieting that PC down. It is VERY quiet now,

>>>>>>>>>> as in .... completely dead.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> You KILLED your Win98! Ohhhh! It's the XP-irradiation

>>>>>>>>> responsible! It demented you and cajoled you & made you plug in

>>>>>>>>> a poison, purple power supply to match the color of your

>>>>>>>>> irradiated toes! I KNEW it would happen! Ohhhhhh!

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Well, I'm not done with it yet! I found and ordered an exact

>>>>>>>> replacement MB from eBay, so wish me luck!!

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Good luck-- absolutely! Get that Win98 back!

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> But I am a bit pissed - this old Dell and its damn proprietary

>>>>>>>> connector wiring, Bah Humbug!.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> In truth, that was fairly brave of you to try replacing a power

>>>>>>> supply. I hope never to have to do it!

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I did it to quiet that PC down (it is noticeably noiser than the

>>>>>> new one). Now it's .... VERY VERY quiet! :-)

>>>>>

>>>>> Uhuh. That part was a success. But earplugs would have been better!

>>>>>

>>>>>> Actually, I just tested the power supply with a voltmeter (finally

>>>>>> found the Dell wiring diagram), and found it's still ok. So -

>>>>>> the MB is hosed.

>>>>>

>>>>> I guess I must agree. If the old one tests well & is plugged as it

>>>>> was before, it should work as before, I think. Either the MB is

>>>>> gone or some smaller component on it that gets power first is gone.

>>>>

>>>> Most of those components (and ICs) are soldered in, and I bet

>>>> several were blown, due to the miswired power supply (putting the

>>>> wrong voltages on the wrong pins).

>>>> So it's not practical replacing the individual components. These

>>>> old motherboards aren't all that expensive anyways.

>>>

>>> I see. Yea, that gets worse to consider multiple components may be

>>> wrecked, & I see there is no sign of singeing anywhere. And I

>>> personally would suspect I could be doing more damage than existed

>>> in the first place, if soldering is involved! In fact, I wouldn't

>>> want to do a whole MB, either. That sounds as tough or worse than a

>>> power supply, even! Sheesh-- but keep at it! You have no choice! Get

>>> that Win98 working!

>>>

>>>>> But I'm afraid I know little or nothing about this.

>>>>>

>>>>> (1) Do all the peripherals such as the hard drives require the MB

>>>>> to work to get any sound out of them?

>>>>

>>>> The problem was that after the MB is fried it can prevent the power

>>>> supply from working, because the power supply gets a turn-on signal

>>>> from the MB when you push the power switch ON. (the on switch is not

>>>> directly wired to the power supply).

>>>> So if that signal isn't seen and recognized anymore, you get no

>>>> power from the power supply, because it's still off, but waiting

>>>> for that signal.

>>>

>>> Damn. So, just going by that...

>>>

>>> (a) The motherboard could be dead.

>>> (b) The original power supply could be dead.

>>>

>>> I know you tested the power supply with a voltmeter & found it to be

>>> good. I wonder...

>>>

>>> Can it be the MB is also actually still good, & that the surge was

>>> passed along to the hard drive(s)?

>>

>> No, cause it didn't even POST. Just ... nothing (although I did

>> hear a very faint click when I turned it on)

>

> Alright. I'm actually in over my head on this topic. I suppose there

> would be a post even with a dead or disconnected hard drive. I do have

> these files on C:\...

>

> Directory of C:\

> BC04 OBJ 184,333 02-09-00 10:29a BC04.OBJ

> BIOS EXE 45,056 03-31-00 11:13a BIOS.exe

> BIOS INI 76 03-30-00 12:31p BIOS.ini

>

> But, judging from the contents of the .ini (just these two lines)...

>

> PRODUCT=Samsung 8x DVD-ROM Drive

> COMMAND=c:\fromdos bc04.obj /run

>

> They seem to relate to the DC-ROM only.

>

>>> Can it be the hard drive that is

>>> dead? I can't seem to find it, but didn't someone in this thread

>>> post a way to check that... maybe he said to plug in just the hard

>>> drive & touch something to the chassis? Wait, it was philo, & he

>>> said...

>>>

>>> ......Quote philo............

>>> I assume it's an ATX you are asking about.

>>> If it's an ATX supply just touch the green wire to the chassis.

>>>

>>> I advise keeping one harddrive connected to it since it's a

>>> 'switching' type supply and may require some load to run.

>>>

>>> If it does not even turn on or power a HD it's dead of course...

>>> but even if it powers the drive...I'd still check the other voltages

>>> as it could still be defective of course.

>>

>> I checked the voltages and the power supply (at least) seems ok. So

>> at least something is left. :-)

>

> Yea. OK.

>

>>> BTW: If the PSU smells burned or if there's a capacitor rattling

>>> around inside...

>>> you need not go any further <G>

>>> ......EOQ.......................

>>>

>>> I'm not sure my interpretation is correct. It would be nice if

>>> something like that should spin the hard drive. Then, you could know

>>> it wasn't dead.

>>>

>>>>> (2) Is there any evidence of burning anywhere?

>>>>

>>>> Nope.

>>>

>>> OK. Too bad.

>>>

>>>>> (3) Was there any noise after the replacement power supply was

>>>>> plugged in just before things went dead-- like the sound of an

>>>>> electric chair or something?

>>>>

>>>> Nope. It was quiet. All was - and still IS - Quiet, on the

>>>> Western Front.

>>>

>>> Hmm. It seems strange that nothing at all would happen-- not even

>>> dying words (which always are true) or a last gasp!

>>

>> Not if the power supply doesn't get the "good to go" signal (from

>> some PS_ON control IC, that presumably got initially destroyed) to

>> turn it fully on.

>

> OK. You've said it twice & I'm sure I've heard it before too. That's

> good enough now. Yet... I'm still wondering why there was no bang (& not

> even a whimper)... when that fatally pinned replacement power supply was

> first connected. It doesn't seem right that a MB could die w/o a sound

> at the hands of a power supply!

Not necessarily. An IC (integrated circuit) chip or transistor, etc, can

die silently with incorrect voltages. Of course, if one wanted to, one

could "up" the voltages even more, and under the right conditions, blow it

literally apart (like blow its case off). THEN you would hear it.

>> Of course, I haven't done a close inspection of all the components on

>> the MB - I can always do that when I replace it. No rush now. :-)

>

> Right. Hopefully, all will be over when that is connected. I see you &

> philo have discussed BIOS & USB considerations in the other thread.

> Also, your CMOS battery was discussed.

>

> Remember Candlin? He was big on replacing the CMOS battery first thing

> when a computer went dead, IIRC. Could be you might try that in the

> meantime.

>

>> Actually, I'm kinda lucky in one sense that it worked out this way, as

>> otherwise I might have destroyed some other things, like the disk

>> drives and/or PCI cards, if the power supply did turn on and stay on

>> long enough to damage everything connected to it.

>

> I think things would/should have been quite noisy, if a lot of stuff got

> wrecked.

IC's (integrated circuits), and most of the electronics, can quite often go

out silently, unless, say, it is severely over-voltaged (like enough to

literally blow it apart). And of course the wrong polarity on (for

example) some electrolytic capacitors can, in some instances, blow it apart.

But fans (with over-voltage) would make a lot of noise. Probably also true

for a hard drive.

>> I'm not totally sure that didn't happen, but I'm pretty sure (as I

>> was able to put power on one of the drives separately, and I heard it

>> power up and run)

>

> Alright! That's that, then-- the hard drive is fine! Very good!

>

>>>>>> But one is on its way.

>>>>>

>>>>> Very good.

>>>>

>>>> I hope so.

>>>> More below...

>>>>

>>>>>>> By the way, in that last thread in which we were speaking (Inbox

>>>>>>> contents simply vanished), I tried 3 times to post a response to

>>>>>>> your latest-- but it would post! It wasn't much of anything,

>>>>>>> though-- we were both just about done & beginning to repeat.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Why did it vanish?

>>>>>

>>>>> I don't know whether my 3 posts got through & vanished or just

>>>>> never got through. They are in my Sent Items folder, but I never

>>>>> saw them in the thread. It wasn't the problem of reaching the size

>>>>> limit of a thread segment; I never got that message. I thought it

>>>>> might be an early sign of XP-poisoning on your part. However, I

>>>>> think MEB or someone once reported he couldn't post to me in a

>>>>> certain thread-- so it couldn't be that!

>>>>>

>>>>>> BTW, I never heard back from you on why you didn't like the

>>>>>> convenience of the Tax programs instead of a spreadsheet on your

>>>>>> computer (not on the web!). See, it fills out (and can print)

>>>>>> the forms for you, and you can even efile if you want. And it's

>>>>>> all on your computer after you install the program.

>>>>>

>>>>> That's the thread I'm speaking of! I couldn't post my answer to

>>>>> that-- but it was pretty much the same as I posted earlier, anyhow.

>>>>

>>>> Well, I thought you didn't answer it because you had thought the tax

>>>> programs were online, but they're not (well, some are, but I never

>>>> use those). You can do it ALL on your own computer (you get a

>>>> CD to install the program, and it does all the work for you.

>>>

>>> I think (but have never tried it) I could do that now at an IRS site

>>> (at least the federal site)-- but I choose not to do it. I did what

>>> I could with MSWorks Spreadsheet-- & I'm waiting patiently for my

>>> economic stimulus check now! I believe I get the full $600.00!

>>

>> NICE!!

>

> Yea.

>

>>> --

>>> Thanks or Good Luck,

>>> There may be humor in this post, and,

>>> Naturally, you will not sue,

>>> Should things get worse after this,

>>> PCR

>>> pcrrcp@netzero.net

>

> --

> Thanks or Good Luck,

> There may be humor in this post, and,

> Naturally, you will not sue,

> Should things get worse after this,

> PCR

> pcrrcp@netzero.net

April 26, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

Bill in Co. wrote:

| PCR wrote:

|> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>> PCR wrote:

|>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>>>> PCR wrote:

|>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>>>>>> PCR wrote:

|>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>>>>>>>> PCR wrote:

|>>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>>>>>>>>>

|>>>>>>>>> ...snip

|>>>>>>>>>> Actually, it "seems" this was a "blessing" in disguise, as I

|>>>>>>>>>> just tried "upgrading" my Win98 Dell's power supply to a

|>>>>>>>>>> quieter one, and, due to Dell's proprietary pin layouts, now

|>>>>>>>>>> have a dead MB. Ironically, I bought one of those "quiet

|>>>>>>>>>> power supply" replacements (even with some special Dell

|>>>>>>>>>> connectors) in the hopes of quieting that PC down. It is

|>>>>>>>>>> VERY quiet now, as in .... completely dead.

|>>>>>>>>>

|>>>>>>>>> You KILLED your Win98! Ohhhh! It's the XP-irradiation

|>>>>>>>>> responsible! It demented you and cajoled you & made you plug

|>>>>>>>>> in a poison, purple power supply to match the color of your

|>>>>>>>>> irradiated toes! I KNEW it would happen! Ohhhhhh!

|>>>>>>>>

|>>>>>>>> Well, I'm not done with it yet! I found and ordered an

|>>>>>>>> exact replacement MB from eBay, so wish me luck!!

|>>>>>>>

|>>>>>>> Good luck-- absolutely! Get that Win98 back!

|>>>>>>>

|>>>>>>>> But I am a bit pissed - this old Dell and its damn proprietary

|>>>>>>>> connector wiring, Bah Humbug!.

|>>>>>>>

|>>>>>>> In truth, that was fairly brave of you to try replacing a power

|>>>>>>> supply. I hope never to have to do it!

|>>>>>>

|>>>>>> I did it to quiet that PC down (it is noticeably noiser than the

|>>>>>> new one). Now it's .... VERY VERY quiet! :-)

|>>>>>

|>>>>> Uhuh. That part was a success. But earplugs would have been

|>>>>> better!

|>>>>>

|>>>>>> Actually, I just tested the power supply with a voltmeter

|>>>>>> (finally found the Dell wiring diagram), and found it's still

|>>>>>> ok. So - the MB is hosed.

|>>>>>

|>>>>> I guess I must agree. If the old one tests well & is plugged as

|>>>>> it was before, it should work as before, I think. Either the MB

|>>>>> is gone or some smaller component on it that gets power first is

|>>>>> gone.

|>>>>

|>>>> Most of those components (and ICs) are soldered in, and I bet

|>>>> several were blown, due to the miswired power supply (putting the

|>>>> wrong voltages on the wrong pins).

|>>>> So it's not practical replacing the individual components.

|>>>> These old motherboards aren't all that expensive anyways.

|>>>

|>>> I see. Yea, that gets worse to consider multiple components may be

|>>> wrecked, & I see there is no sign of singeing anywhere. And I

|>>> personally would suspect I could be doing more damage than existed

|>>> in the first place, if soldering is involved! In fact, I wouldn't

|>>> want to do a whole MB, either. That sounds as tough or worse than a

|>>> power supply, even! Sheesh-- but keep at it! You have no choice!

|>>> Get that Win98 working!

|>>>

|>>>>> But I'm afraid I know little or nothing about this.

|>>>>>

|>>>>> (1) Do all the peripherals such as the hard drives require the MB

|>>>>> to work to get any sound out of them?

|>>>>

|>>>> The problem was that after the MB is fried it can prevent the

|>>>> power supply from working, because the power supply gets a

|>>>> turn-on signal from the MB when you push the power switch ON.

|>>>> (the on switch is not directly wired to the power supply).

|>>>> So if that signal isn't seen and recognized anymore, you get no

|>>>> power from the power supply, because it's still off, but waiting

|>>>> for that signal.

|>>>

|>>> Damn. So, just going by that...

|>>>

|>>> (a) The motherboard could be dead.

|>>> (b) The original power supply could be dead.

|>>>

|>>> I know you tested the power supply with a voltmeter & found it to

|>>> be good. I wonder...

|>>>

|>>> Can it be the MB is also actually still good, & that the surge was

|>>> passed along to the hard drive(s)?

|>>

|>> No, cause it didn't even POST. Just ... nothing (although I did

|>> hear a very faint click when I turned it on)

|>

|> Alright. I'm actually in over my head on this topic. I suppose there

|> would be a post even with a dead or disconnected hard drive. I do

|> have these files on C:\...

|>

|> Directory of C:\

|> BC04 OBJ 184,333 02-09-00 10:29a BC04.OBJ

|> BIOS EXE 45,056 03-31-00 11:13a BIOS.exe

|> BIOS INI 76 03-30-00 12:31p BIOS.ini

|>

|> But, judging from the contents of the .ini (just these two lines)...

|>

|> PRODUCT=Samsung 8x DVD-ROM Drive

|> COMMAND=c:\fromdos bc04.obj /run

|>

|> They seem to relate to the DC-ROM only.

|>

|>>> Can it be the hard drive that is

|>>> dead? I can't seem to find it, but didn't someone in this thread

|>>> post a way to check that... maybe he said to plug in just the hard

|>>> drive & touch something to the chassis? Wait, it was philo, & he

|>>> said...

|>>>

|>>> ......Quote philo............

|>>> I assume it's an ATX you are asking about.

|>>> If it's an ATX supply just touch the green wire to the chassis.

|>>>

|>>> I advise keeping one harddrive connected to it since it's a

|>>> 'switching' type supply and may require some load to run.

|>>>

|>>> If it does not even turn on or power a HD it's dead of course...

|>>> but even if it powers the drive...I'd still check the other

|>>> voltages as it could still be defective of course.

|>>

|>> I checked the voltages and the power supply (at least) seems ok.

|>> So at least something is left. :-)

|>

|> Yea. OK.

|>

|>>> BTW: If the PSU smells burned or if there's a capacitor rattling

|>>> around inside...

|>>> you need not go any further <G>

|>>> ......EOQ.......................

|>>>

|>>> I'm not sure my interpretation is correct. It would be nice if

|>>> something like that should spin the hard drive. Then, you could

|>>> know it wasn't dead.

|>>>

|>>>>> (2) Is there any evidence of burning anywhere?

|>>>>

|>>>> Nope.

|>>>

|>>> OK. Too bad.

|>>>

|>>>>> (3) Was there any noise after the replacement power supply was

|>>>>> plugged in just before things went dead-- like the sound of an

|>>>>> electric chair or something?

|>>>>

|>>>> Nope. It was quiet. All was - and still IS - Quiet, on the

|>>>> Western Front.

|>>>

|>>> Hmm. It seems strange that nothing at all would happen-- not even

|>>> dying words (which always are true) or a last gasp!

|>>

|>> Not if the power supply doesn't get the "good to go" signal (from

|>> some PS_ON control IC, that presumably got initially destroyed) to

|>> turn it fully on.

|>

|> OK. You've said it twice & I'm sure I've heard it before too. That's

|> good enough now. Yet... I'm still wondering why there was no bang (&

|> not even a whimper)... when that fatally pinned replacement power

|> supply was first connected. It doesn't seem right that a MB could

|> die w/o a sound at the hands of a power supply!

|

| Not necessarily. An IC (integrated circuit) chip or transistor,

| etc, can die silently with incorrect voltages. Of course, if one

| wanted to, one could "up" the voltages even more, and under the right

| conditions, blow it literally apart (like blow its case off). THEN

| you would hear it.

All right. I'm sure you are right. The 3 noisy experiences I've had were

unrelated to the MB...

Hard drive crash Had to be replaced & has a rattle now.

CD-ROM crash Worked fine 3/so days later,

after I got the CD out of it.

Speakers Smaller ones blew up! The originals

worked fine when replugged & still do.

|>> Of course, I haven't done a close inspection of all the components

|>> on the MB - I can always do that when I replace it. No rush now.

|>> :-)

|>

|> Right. Hopefully, all will be over when that is connected. I see you

|> & philo have discussed BIOS & USB considerations in the other thread.

|> Also, your CMOS battery was discussed.

|>

|> Remember Candlin? He was big on replacing the CMOS battery first

|> thing when a computer went dead, IIRC. Could be you might try that

|> in the meantime.

You didn't answer this. Candlin seemed knowledeable most of the time,

though also often inordinantly ornery. If a new battery comes with the

new MB, it might be worth a shot just to replace that as a first try.

|>> Actually, I'm kinda lucky in one sense that it worked out this way,

|>> as otherwise I might have destroyed some other things, like the disk

|>> drives and/or PCI cards, if the power supply did turn on and stay on

|>> long enough to damage everything connected to it.

|>

|> I think things would/should have been quite noisy, if a lot of stuff

|> got wrecked.

|

| IC's (integrated circuits), and most of the electronics, can quite

| often go out silently, unless, say, it is severely over-voltaged

| (like enough to literally blow it apart). And of course the wrong

| polarity on (for example) some electrolytic capacitors can, in some

| instances, blow it apart.

|

| But fans (with over-voltage) would make a lot of noise. Probably

| also true for a hard drive.

All right. I said I was in over my head.

|>> I'm not totally sure that didn't happen, but I'm pretty sure (as I

|>> was able to put power on one of the drives separately, and I heard

|>> it power up and run)

|>

|> Alright! That's that, then-- the hard drive is fine! Very good!

|>

|>>>>>> But one is on its way.

|>>>>>

|>>>>> Very good.

|>>>>

|>>>> I hope so.

|>>>> More below...

|>>>>

|>>>>>>> By the way, in that last thread in which we were speaking

|>>>>>>> (Inbox contents simply vanished), I tried 3 times to post a

|>>>>>>> response to your latest-- but it would post! It wasn't much of

|>>>>>>> anything, though-- we were both just about done & beginning to

|>>>>>>> repeat.

|>>>>>>

|>>>>>> Why did it vanish?

|>>>>>

|>>>>> I don't know whether my 3 posts got through & vanished or just

|>>>>> never got through. They are in my Sent Items folder, but I never

|>>>>> saw them in the thread. It wasn't the problem of reaching the

|>>>>> size limit of a thread segment; I never got that message. I

|>>>>> thought it might be an early sign of XP-poisoning on your part.

|>>>>> However, I think MEB or someone once reported he couldn't post

|>>>>> to me in a certain thread-- so it couldn't be that!

|>>>>>

|>>>>>> BTW, I never heard back from you on why you didn't like the

|>>>>>> convenience of the Tax programs instead of a spreadsheet on your

|>>>>>> computer (not on the web!). See, it fills out (and can print)

|>>>>>> the forms for you, and you can even efile if you want. And

|>>>>>> it's all on your computer after you install the program.

|>>>>>

|>>>>> That's the thread I'm speaking of! I couldn't post my answer to

|>>>>> that-- but it was pretty much the same as I posted earlier,

|>>>>> anyhow.

|>>>>

|>>>> Well, I thought you didn't answer it because you had thought the

|>>>> tax programs were online, but they're not (well, some are, but I

|>>>> never use those). You can do it ALL on your own computer (you

|>>>> get a CD to install the program, and it does all the work for you.

|>>>

|>>> I think (but have never tried it) I could do that now at an IRS

|>>> site (at least the federal site)-- but I choose not to do it. I

|>>> did what I could with MSWorks Spreadsheet-- & I'm waiting

|>>> patiently for my economic stimulus check now! I believe I get the

|>>> full $600.00!

|>>

|>> NICE!!

|>

|> Yea.

|>

|>>> --

|>>> Thanks or Good Luck,

|>>> There may be humor in this post, and,

|>>> Naturally, you will not sue,

|>>> Should things get worse after this,

|>>> PCR

|>>> pcrrcp@netzero.net

|>

|> --

|> Thanks or Good Luck,

|> There may be humor in this post, and,

|> Naturally, you will not sue,

|> Should things get worse after this,

|> PCR

|> pcrrcp@netzero.net

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

April 26, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

PCR wrote:

> Bill in Co. wrote:

>> PCR wrote:

>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>> PCR wrote:

>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>>> PCR wrote:

>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>>>>> PCR wrote:

>>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>>>>>>> PCR wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> ...snip

>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, it "seems" this was a "blessing" in disguise, as I

>>>>>>>>>>>> just tried "upgrading" my Win98 Dell's power supply to a

>>>>>>>>>>>> quieter one, and, due to Dell's proprietary pin layouts, now

>>>>>>>>>>>> have a dead MB. Ironically, I bought one of those "quiet

>>>>>>>>>>>> power supply" replacements (even with some special Dell

>>>>>>>>>>>> connectors) in the hopes of quieting that PC down. It is

>>>>>>>>>>>> VERY quiet now, as in .... completely dead.

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> You KILLED your Win98! Ohhhh! It's the XP-irradiation

>>>>>>>>>>> responsible! It demented you and cajoled you & made you plug

>>>>>>>>>>> in a poison, purple power supply to match the color of your

>>>>>>>>>>> irradiated toes! I KNEW it would happen! Ohhhhhh!

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Well, I'm not done with it yet! I found and ordered an

>>>>>>>>>> exact replacement MB from eBay, so wish me luck!!

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Good luck-- absolutely! Get that Win98 back!

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> But I am a bit pissed - this old Dell and its damn proprietary

>>>>>>>>>> connector wiring, Bah Humbug!.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> In truth, that was fairly brave of you to try replacing a power

>>>>>>>>> supply. I hope never to have to do it!

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I did it to quiet that PC down (it is noticeably noiser than the

>>>>>>>> new one). Now it's .... VERY VERY quiet! :-)

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Uhuh. That part was a success. But earplugs would have been

>>>>>>> better!

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Actually, I just tested the power supply with a voltmeter

>>>>>>>> (finally found the Dell wiring diagram), and found it's still

>>>>>>>> ok. So - the MB is hosed.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I guess I must agree. If the old one tests well & is plugged as

>>>>>>> it was before, it should work as before, I think. Either the MB

>>>>>>> is gone or some smaller component on it that gets power first is

>>>>>>> gone.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Most of those components (and ICs) are soldered in, and I bet

>>>>>> several were blown, due to the miswired power supply (putting the

>>>>>> wrong voltages on the wrong pins).

>>>>>> So it's not practical replacing the individual components.

>>>>>> These old motherboards aren't all that expensive anyways.

>>>>>

>>>>> I see. Yea, that gets worse to consider multiple components may be

>>>>> wrecked, & I see there is no sign of singeing anywhere. And I

>>>>> personally would suspect I could be doing more damage than existed

>>>>> in the first place, if soldering is involved! In fact, I wouldn't

>>>>> want to do a whole MB, either. That sounds as tough or worse than a

>>>>> power supply, even! Sheesh-- but keep at it! You have no choice!

>>>>> Get that Win98 working!

>>>>>

>>>>>>> But I'm afraid I know little or nothing about this.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> (1) Do all the peripherals such as the hard drives require the MB

>>>>>>> to work to get any sound out of them?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> The problem was that after the MB is fried it can prevent the

>>>>>> power supply from working, because the power supply gets a

>>>>>> turn-on signal from the MB when you push the power switch ON.

>>>>>> (the on switch is not directly wired to the power supply).

>>>>>> So if that signal isn't seen and recognized anymore, you get no

>>>>>> power from the power supply, because it's still off, but waiting

>>>>>> for that signal.

>>>>>

>>>>> Damn. So, just going by that...

>>>>>

>>>>> (a) The motherboard could be dead.

>>>>> (b) The original power supply could be dead.

>>>>>

>>>>> I know you tested the power supply with a voltmeter & found it to

>>>>> be good. I wonder...

>>>>>

>>>>> Can it be the MB is also actually still good, & that the surge was

>>>>> passed along to the hard drive(s)?

>>>>

>>>> No, cause it didn't even POST. Just ... nothing (although I did

>>>> hear a very faint click when I turned it on)

>>>

>>> Alright. I'm actually in over my head on this topic. I suppose there

>>> would be a post even with a dead or disconnected hard drive. I do

>>> have these files on C:\...

>>>

>>> Directory of C:\

>>> BC04 OBJ 184,333 02-09-00 10:29a BC04.OBJ

>>> BIOS EXE 45,056 03-31-00 11:13a BIOS.exe

>>> BIOS INI 76 03-30-00 12:31p BIOS.ini

>>>

>>> But, judging from the contents of the .ini (just these two lines)...

>>>

>>> PRODUCT=Samsung 8x DVD-ROM Drive

>>> COMMAND=c:\fromdos bc04.obj /run

>>>

>>> They seem to relate to the DC-ROM only.

>>>

>>>>> Can it be the hard drive that is

>>>>> dead? I can't seem to find it, but didn't someone in this thread

>>>>> post a way to check that... maybe he said to plug in just the hard

>>>>> drive & touch something to the chassis? Wait, it was philo, & he

>>>>> said...

>>>>>

>>>>> ......Quote philo............

>>>>> I assume it's an ATX you are asking about.

>>>>> If it's an ATX supply just touch the green wire to the chassis.

>>>>>

>>>>> I advise keeping one harddrive connected to it since it's a

>>>>> 'switching' type supply and may require some load to run.

>>>>>

>>>>> If it does not even turn on or power a HD it's dead of course...

>>>>> but even if it powers the drive...I'd still check the other

>>>>> voltages as it could still be defective of course.

>>>>

>>>> I checked the voltages and the power supply (at least) seems ok.

>>>> So at least something is left. :-)

>>>

>>> Yea. OK.

>>>

>>>>> BTW: If the PSU smells burned or if there's a capacitor rattling

>>>>> around inside...

>>>>> you need not go any further <G>

>>>>> ......EOQ.......................

>>>>>

>>>>> I'm not sure my interpretation is correct. It would be nice if

>>>>> something like that should spin the hard drive. Then, you could

>>>>> know it wasn't dead.

>>>>>

>>>>>>> (2) Is there any evidence of burning anywhere?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Nope.

>>>>>

>>>>> OK. Too bad.

>>>>>

>>>>>>> (3) Was there any noise after the replacement power supply was

>>>>>>> plugged in just before things went dead-- like the sound of an

>>>>>>> electric chair or something?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Nope. It was quiet. All was - and still IS - Quiet, on the

>>>>>> Western Front.

>>>>>

>>>>> Hmm. It seems strange that nothing at all would happen-- not even

>>>>> dying words (which always are true) or a last gasp!

>>>>

>>>> Not if the power supply doesn't get the "good to go" signal (from

>>>> some PS_ON control IC, that presumably got initially destroyed) to

>>>> turn it fully on.

>>>

>>> OK. You've said it twice & I'm sure I've heard it before too. That's

>>> good enough now. Yet... I'm still wondering why there was no bang (&

>>> not even a whimper)... when that fatally pinned replacement power

>>> supply was first connected. It doesn't seem right that a MB could

>>> die w/o a sound at the hands of a power supply!

>>

>> Not necessarily. An IC (integrated circuit) chip or transistor,

>> etc, can die silently with incorrect voltages. Of course, if one

>> wanted to, one could "up" the voltages even more, and under the right

>> conditions, blow it literally apart (like blow its case off). THEN

>> you would hear it.

>

> All right. I'm sure you are right. The 3 noisy experiences I've had were

> unrelated to the MB...

>

> Hard drive crash Had to be replaced & has a rattle now.

> CD-ROM crash Worked fine 3/so days later,

> after I got the CD out of it.

> Speakers Smaller ones blew up! The originals

> worked fine when replugged & still do.

But all of those have some mechanical components (which can move and make

noise), which explains why. Purely electronic components (resistors,

capacitors, transistors, ICs, etc, etc) are normally silent; nothing "moves"

in there (except electrons). Hence, no noise (under MOST circumstances -

an exception being if you blow it apart with quite excessive voltage).

>>>> Of course, I haven't done a close inspection of all the components

>>>> on the MB - I can always do that when I replace it. No rush now.

>>>> :-)

>>>

>>> Right. Hopefully, all will be over when that is connected. I see you

>>> & philo have discussed BIOS & USB considerations in the other thread.

>>> Also, your CMOS battery was discussed.

>>>

>>> Remember Candlin? He was big on replacing the CMOS battery first

>>> thing when a computer went dead, IIRC. Could be you might try that

>>> in the meantime.

>

> You didn't answer this. Candlin seemed knowledeable most of the time,

> though also often inordinantly ornery. If a new battery comes with the

> new MB, it might be worth a shot just to replace that as a first try.

I was pretty sure it wasn't that, due to NOTHING happening at all (including

anything on the monitor, or power anywhere). ZERO, nada. (And I'm

pretty sure a dead CMOS battery can't do that by itself when the unit is

plugged in).

UDPATE:

Now I know I'm sure, because I just got the motherboard today, installed it,

and I'm up and running. Hooray!

>>>> Actually, I'm kinda lucky in one sense that it worked out this way,

>>>> as otherwise I might have destroyed some other things, like the disk

>>>> drives and/or PCI cards, if the power supply did turn on and stay on

>>>> long enough to damage everything connected to it.

>>>

>>> I think things would/should have been quite noisy, if a lot of stuff

>>> got wrecked.

>>

>> IC's (integrated circuits), and most of the electronics, can quite

>> often go out silently, unless, say, it is severely over-voltaged

>> (like enough to literally blow it apart). And of course the wrong

>> polarity on (for example) some electrolytic capacitors can, in some

>> instances, blow it apart.

>>

>> But fans (with over-voltage) would make a lot of noise. Probably

>> also true for a hard drive.

>

> All right. I said I was in over my head.

And both of the above have mechanical components (things that can move to

make some noise).

>>>> I'm not totally sure that didn't happen, but I'm pretty sure (as I

>>>> was able to put power on one of the drives separately, and I heard

>>>> it power up and run)

>>>

>>> Alright! That's that, then-- the hard drive is fine! Very good!

>

Everything is fine now, as I've replaced the motherboard, and am up and

running!

April 26, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

Bill in Co. wrote:

| PCR wrote:

....snip

|>>>>> Hmm. It seems strange that nothing at all would happen-- not even

|>>>>> dying words (which always are true) or a last gasp!

|>>>>

|>>>> Not if the power supply doesn't get the "good to go" signal (from

|>>>> some PS_ON control IC, that presumably got initially destroyed) to

|>>>> turn it fully on.

|>>>

|>>> OK. You've said it twice & I'm sure I've heard it before too.

|>>> That's good enough now. Yet... I'm still wondering why there was

|>>> no bang (& not even a whimper)... when that fatally pinned

|>>> replacement power supply was first connected. It doesn't seem

|>>> right that a MB could die w/o a sound at the hands of a power

|>>> supply!

|>>

|>> Not necessarily. An IC (integrated circuit) chip or transistor,

|>> etc, can die silently with incorrect voltages. Of course, if one

|>> wanted to, one could "up" the voltages even more, and under the

|>> right conditions, blow it literally apart (like blow its case off).

|>> THEN you would hear it.

|>

|> All right. I'm sure you are right. The 3 noisy experiences I've had

|> were unrelated to the MB...

|>

|> Hard drive crash Had to be replaced & has a rattle now.

|> CD-ROM crash Worked fine 3/so days later,

|> after I got the CD out of it.

|> Speakers Smaller ones blew up! The originals

|> worked fine when replugged & still do.

|

| But all of those have some mechanical components (which can move and

| make noise), which explains why. Purely electronic components

| (resistors, capacitors, transistors, ICs, etc, etc) are normally

| silent; nothing "moves" in there (except electrons). Hence, no

| noise (under MOST circumstances - an exception being if you blow it

| apart with quite excessive voltage).

Understood. OK. I guess I was thinking really of electric arcing.

|>>>> Of course, I haven't done a close inspection of all the components

|>>>> on the MB - I can always do that when I replace it. No rush now.

|>>>> :-)

|>>>

|>>> Right. Hopefully, all will be over when that is connected. I see

|>>> you & philo have discussed BIOS & USB considerations in the other

|>>> thread. Also, your CMOS battery was discussed.

|>>>

|>>> Remember Candlin? He was big on replacing the CMOS battery first

|>>> thing when a computer went dead, IIRC. Could be you might try that

|>>> in the meantime.

|>

|> You didn't answer this. Candlin seemed knowledeable most of the time,

|> though also often inordinantly ornery. If a new battery comes with

|> the new MB, it might be worth a shot just to replace that as a first

|> try.

|

| I was pretty sure it wasn't that, due to NOTHING happening at all

| (including anything on the monitor, or power anywhere). ZERO,

| nada. (And I'm pretty sure a dead CMOS battery can't do that by

| itself when the unit is plugged in).

Yea. It didn't seem very likely really.

| UDPATE:

| Now I know I'm sure, because I just got the motherboard today,

| installed it, and I'm up and running. Hooray!

Yow! Well done! Win98 lives again!

....snip

|>> But fans (with over-voltage) would make a lot of noise. Probably

|>> also true for a hard drive.

|>

|> All right. I said I was in over my head.

|

| And both of the above have mechanical components (things that can

| move to make some noise).

OK.

|>>>> I'm not totally sure that didn't happen, but I'm pretty sure (as I

|>>>> was able to put power on one of the drives separately, and I heard

|>>>> it power up and run)

|>>>

|>>> Alright! That's that, then-- the hard drive is fine! Very good!

|>

| Everything is fine now, as I've replaced the motherboard, and am up

| and running!

I'm overjoyed! Good going!

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

April 26, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

PCR wrote:

> Bill in Co. wrote:

>> PCR wrote:

>

> ...snip

>>>>>>> Hmm. It seems strange that nothing at all would happen-- not even

>>>>>>> dying words (which always are true) or a last gasp!

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Not if the power supply doesn't get the "good to go" signal (from

>>>>>> some PS_ON control IC, that presumably got initially destroyed) to

>>>>>> turn it fully on.

>>>>>

>>>>> OK. You've said it twice & I'm sure I've heard it before too.

>>>>> That's good enough now. Yet... I'm still wondering why there was

>>>>> no bang (& not even a whimper)... when that fatally pinned

>>>>> replacement power supply was first connected. It doesn't seem

>>>>> right that a MB could die w/o a sound at the hands of a power

>>>>> supply!

>>>>

>>>> Not necessarily. An IC (integrated circuit) chip or transistor,

>>>> etc, can die silently with incorrect voltages. Of course, if one

>>>> wanted to, one could "up" the voltages even more, and under the

>>>> right conditions, blow it literally apart (like blow its case off).

>>>> THEN you would hear it.

>>>

>>> All right. I'm sure you are right. The 3 noisy experiences I've had

>>> were unrelated to the MB...

>>>

>>> Hard drive crash Had to be replaced & has a rattle now.

>>> CD-ROM crash Worked fine 3/so days later,

>>> after I got the CD out of it.

>>> Speakers Smaller ones blew up! The originals

>>> worked fine when replugged & still do.

>>

>> But all of those have some mechanical components (which can move and

>> make noise), which explains why. Purely electronic components

>> (resistors, capacitors, transistors, ICs, etc, etc) are normally

>> silent; nothing "moves" in there (except electrons). Hence, no

>> noise (under MOST circumstances - an exception being if you blow it

>> apart with quite excessive voltage).

>

> Understood. OK. I guess I was thinking really of electric arcing.

True - that makes noise, but that takes a pretty decent amount of voltage

(and a lot of current flows when it arcs!).

>>>>>> Of course, I haven't done a close inspection of all the components

>>>>>> on the MB - I can always do that when I replace it. No rush now.

>>>>>> :-)

>>>>>

>>>>> Right. Hopefully, all will be over when that is connected. I see

>>>>> you & philo have discussed BIOS & USB considerations in the other

>>>>> thread. Also, your CMOS battery was discussed.

>>>>>

>>>>> Remember Candlin? He was big on replacing the CMOS battery first

>>>>> thing when a computer went dead, IIRC. Could be you might try that

>>>>> in the meantime.

>>>

>>> You didn't answer this. Candlin seemed knowledeable most of the time,

>>> though also often inordinantly ornery. If a new battery comes with

>>> the new MB, it might be worth a shot just to replace that as a first

>>> try.

>>

>> I was pretty sure it wasn't that, due to NOTHING happening at all

>> (including anything on the monitor, or power anywhere). ZERO,

>> nada. (And I'm pretty sure a dead CMOS battery can't do that by

>> itself when the unit is plugged in).

>

> Yea. It didn't seem very likely really.

>

>> UDPATE:

>> Now I know I'm sure, because I just got the motherboard today,

>> installed it, and I'm up and running. Hooray!

>

> Yow! Well done! Win98 lives again!

>

> ...snip

>>>> But fans (with over-voltage) would make a lot of noise. Probably

>>>> also true for a hard drive.

>>>

>>> All right. I said I was in over my head.

>>

>> And both of the above have mechanical components (things that can

>> move to make some noise).

>

> OK.

>

>>>>>> I'm not totally sure that didn't happen, but I'm pretty sure (as I

>>>>>> was able to put power on one of the drives separately, and I heard

>>>>>> it power up and run)

>>>>>

>>>>> Alright! That's that, then-- the hard drive is fine! Very good!

>>>

>> Everything is fine now, as I've replaced the motherboard, and am up

>> and running!

>

> I'm overjoyed! Good going!

Thanks. Me too! Now I'm getting back to what I was originally working

on - making it quieter. But NOT as quiet as it has been over the last few

days!

April 26, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

Bill in Co. wrote:

| PCR wrote:

|> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>> PCR wrote:

|>

|> ...snip

|>>>>>>> Hmm. It seems strange that nothing at all would happen-- not

|>>>>>>> even dying words (which always are true) or a last gasp!

|>>>>>>

|>>>>>> Not if the power supply doesn't get the "good to go" signal

|>>>>>> (from some PS_ON control IC, that presumably got initially

|>>>>>> destroyed) to turn it fully on.

|>>>>>

|>>>>> OK. You've said it twice & I'm sure I've heard it before too.

|>>>>> That's good enough now. Yet... I'm still wondering why there was

|>>>>> no bang (& not even a whimper)... when that fatally pinned

|>>>>> replacement power supply was first connected. It doesn't seem

|>>>>> right that a MB could die w/o a sound at the hands of a power

|>>>>> supply!

|>>>>

|>>>> Not necessarily. An IC (integrated circuit) chip or transistor,

|>>>> etc, can die silently with incorrect voltages. Of course, if

|>>>> one wanted to, one could "up" the voltages even more, and under

|>>>> the right conditions, blow it literally apart (like blow its case

|>>>> off). THEN you would hear it.

|>>>

|>>> All right. I'm sure you are right. The 3 noisy experiences I've had

|>>> were unrelated to the MB...

|>>>

|>>> Hard drive crash Had to be replaced & has a rattle now.

|>>> CD-ROM crash Worked fine 3/so days later,

|>>> after I got the CD out of it.

|>>> Speakers Smaller ones blew up! The originals

|>>> worked fine when replugged & still do.

|>>

|>> But all of those have some mechanical components (which can move and

|>> make noise), which explains why. Purely electronic components

|>> (resistors, capacitors, transistors, ICs, etc, etc) are normally

|>> silent; nothing "moves" in there (except electrons). Hence, no

|>> noise (under MOST circumstances - an exception being if you blow it

|>> apart with quite excessive voltage).

|>

|> Understood. OK. I guess I was thinking really of electric arcing.

|

| True - that makes noise, but that takes a pretty decent amount of

| voltage (and a lot of current flows when it arcs!).

You are the former electrician who would know, Colorado. I'v replaced

light fictures, & I've changed electric sockets from 2 to 3 prong.

Sitting right on top of it & feeling the shock, that did make noise too

without moving parts other than my finger & flying wires when I got the

wires wrong. But it's much bigger than the stuff on circuit boards.

....snip

|>> Everything is fine now, as I've replaced the motherboard, and am up

|>> and running!

|>

|> I'm overjoyed! Good going!

|

| Thanks. Me too! Now I'm getting back to what I was originally

| working on - making it quieter. But NOT as quiet as it has been

| over the last few days!

Ah, ha, ha! I suppose it was really is the fan on the power supply that

is noisy. Can't you get just that?

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

April 26, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

PCR wrote:

> Bill in Co. wrote:

>> PCR wrote:

>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>> PCR wrote:

>>>

>>> ...snip

>>>>>>>>> Hmm. It seems strange that nothing at all would happen-- not

>>>>>>>>> even dying words (which always are true) or a last gasp!

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Not if the power supply doesn't get the "good to go" signal

>>>>>>>> (from some PS_ON control IC, that presumably got initially

>>>>>>>> destroyed) to turn it fully on.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> OK. You've said it twice & I'm sure I've heard it before too.

>>>>>>> That's good enough now. Yet... I'm still wondering why there was

>>>>>>> no bang (& not even a whimper)... when that fatally pinned

>>>>>>> replacement power supply was first connected. It doesn't seem

>>>>>>> right that a MB could die w/o a sound at the hands of a power

>>>>>>> supply!

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Not necessarily. An IC (integrated circuit) chip or transistor,

>>>>>> etc, can die silently with incorrect voltages. Of course, if

>>>>>> one wanted to, one could "up" the voltages even more, and under

>>>>>> the right conditions, blow it literally apart (like blow its case

>>>>>> off). THEN you would hear it.

>>>>>

>>>>> All right. I'm sure you are right. The 3 noisy experiences I've had

>>>>> were unrelated to the MB...

>>>>>

>>>>> Hard drive crash Had to be replaced & has a rattle now.

>>>>> CD-ROM crash Worked fine 3/so days later,

>>>>> after I got the CD out of it.

>>>>> Speakers Smaller ones blew up! The originals

>>>>> worked fine when replugged & still do.

>>>>

>>>> But all of those have some mechanical components (which can move and

>>>> make noise), which explains why. Purely electronic components

>>>> (resistors, capacitors, transistors, ICs, etc, etc) are normally

>>>> silent; nothing "moves" in there (except electrons). Hence, no

>>>> noise (under MOST circumstances - an exception being if you blow it

>>>> apart with quite excessive voltage).

>>>

>>> Understood. OK. I guess I was thinking really of electric arcing.

>>

>> True - that makes noise, but that takes a pretty decent amount of

>> voltage (and a lot of current flows when it arcs!).

>

> You are the former electrician who would know, Colorado. I'v replaced

Actually not an electrician, but an EE. There is a difference - in that

you wouldn't want me to try and wire up a house!! (I don't know the

electrical codes, and haven't done that stuff; that's for the licensed

electricians)

> light fixtures, & I've changed electric sockets from 2 to 3 prong.

And that's 120 VAC!!

In the power supply's output, we're just dealing with 3.3V, 5V and 12V.

> Sitting right on top of it & feeling the shock, that did make noise too

> without moving parts other than my finger & flying wires when I got the

> wires wrong. But it's much bigger than the stuff on circuit boards.

Yeah.

I never have been able to replace a light switch with the power on w/o

getting some shock at some point (I was too lazy to find which ckt breaker

turned it off, so I thought I'd take a "shortcut" - never works well for me)

> ...snip

>>>> Everything is fine now, as I've replaced the motherboard, and am up

>>>> and running!

>>>

>>> I'm overjoyed! Good going!

>>

>> Thanks. Me too! Now I'm getting back to what I was originally

>> working on - making it quieter. But NOT as quiet as it has been

>> over the last few days!

>

> Ah, ha, ha! I suppose it was really is the fan on the power supply that

> is noisy. Can't you get just that?

LOL. Actually, I'm taking on the other one (the case fan) now!

Once (IF) that one gets done, I'll "reconsider" the power supply and its

fan, but with a bit more "diligence". This time, I want to see my Dell

model number in there!

April 26, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

Bill in Co. wrote:

| PCR wrote:

|> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>> PCR wrote:

|>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

|>>>> PCR wrote:

|>>>

|>>> ...snip

|>>>>>>>>> Hmm. It seems strange that nothing at all would happen-- not

|>>>>>>>>> even dying words (which always are true) or a last gasp!

|>>>>>>>>

|>>>>>>>> Not if the power supply doesn't get the "good to go" signal

|>>>>>>>> (from some PS_ON control IC, that presumably got initially

|>>>>>>>> destroyed) to turn it fully on.

|>>>>>>>

|>>>>>>> OK. You've said it twice & I'm sure I've heard it before too.

|>>>>>>> That's good enough now. Yet... I'm still wondering why there

|>>>>>>> was no bang (& not even a whimper)... when that fatally pinned

|>>>>>>> replacement power supply was first connected. It doesn't seem

|>>>>>>> right that a MB could die w/o a sound at the hands of a power

|>>>>>>> supply!

|>>>>>>

|>>>>>> Not necessarily. An IC (integrated circuit) chip or

|>>>>>> transistor, etc, can die silently with incorrect voltages.

|>>>>>> Of course, if one wanted to, one could "up" the voltages even

|>>>>>> more, and under the right conditions, blow it literally apart

|>>>>>> (like blow its case off). THEN you would hear it.

|>>>>>

|>>>>> All right. I'm sure you are right. The 3 noisy experiences I've

|>>>>> had were unrelated to the MB...

|>>>>>

|>>>>> Hard drive crash Had to be replaced & has a rattle now.

|>>>>> CD-ROM crash Worked fine 3/so days later,

|>>>>> after I got the CD out of it.

|>>>>> Speakers Smaller ones blew up! The originals

|>>>>> worked fine when replugged & still do.

|>>>>

|>>>> But all of those have some mechanical components (which can move

|>>>> and make noise), which explains why. Purely electronic

|>>>> components (resistors, capacitors, transistors, ICs, etc, etc)

|>>>> are normally silent; nothing "moves" in there (except electrons).

|>>>> Hence, no noise (under MOST circumstances - an exception being if

|>>>> you blow it apart with quite excessive voltage).

|>>>

|>>> Understood. OK. I guess I was thinking really of electric arcing.

|>>

|>> True - that makes noise, but that takes a pretty decent amount of

|>> voltage (and a lot of current flows when it arcs!).

|>

|> You are the former electrician who would know, Colorado. I'v replaced

|

| Actually not an electrician, but an EE. There is a difference - in

| that you wouldn't want me to try and wire up a house!! (I don't know

| the electrical codes, and haven't done that stuff; that's for the

| licensed electricians)

I see. I'm neither an electrician nor an EE. So far, only one fire in

one ceiling light fixture has resulted from my tampering. And it went

out by itself!

|> light fixtures, & I've changed electric sockets from 2 to 3 prong.

|

| And that's 120 VAC!!

| In the power supply's output, we're just dealing with 3.3V, 5V and

| 12V.

OK.

|> Sitting right on top of it & feeling the shock, that did make noise

|> too without moving parts other than my finger & flying wires when I

|> got the wires wrong. But it's much bigger than the stuff on circuit

|> boards.

|

| Yeah.

| I never have been able to replace a light switch with the power on w/o

| getting some shock at some point (I was too lazy to find which ckt

| breaker turned it off, so I thought I'd take a "shortcut" - never

| works well for me)

My uncle used to do it like that too. I like to pull the fuse usually,

but, yea, the right one might not be obvious. All the sockets but one in

my kitchen belong to one fuse, & the same is true in my living room! I

got a shock from that! But sometimes you need the fuse in to find which

wire is which too.

|> ...snip

|>>>> Everything is fine now, as I've replaced the motherboard, and am

|>>>> up and running!

|>>>

|>>> I'm overjoyed! Good going!

|>>

|>> Thanks. Me too! Now I'm getting back to what I was originally

|>> working on - making it quieter. But NOT as quiet as it has been

|>> over the last few days!

|>

|> Ah, ha, ha! I suppose it was really is the fan on the power supply

|> that is noisy. Can't you get just that?

|

| LOL. Actually, I'm taking on the other one (the case fan) now!

| Once (IF) that one gets done, I'll "reconsider" the power supply and

| its fan, but with a bit more "diligence". This time, I want to

| see my Dell model number in there!

I've only got one fan, & it's on the power supply. Absolutely, don't get

bit twice by a power supply.

--

Thanks or Good Luck,

There may be humor in this post, and,

Naturally, you will not sue,

Should things get worse after this,

PCR

pcrrcp@netzero.net

May 20, 2008

Re: Life after Windows 98SE

bobster wrote:

> From what I've seen, no one will take a 10 year old computer as a

> gift, much less buy one. I've heard that there are some big box

> stores that will take them for free for salvage but even our county

> recycling outfit wants $20. Tough to get rid of!

[]

Yes, and it seems a crying shame: even the organisations that take them for

distribution to third world countries and the like won't take anything less

than a fairly recent Pentium 2 or 3 system, whereas such old systems as

we're talking of could easily provide some years of experience for mundane

things like word-processing, etcetera (and email, and even web browsing if

the world wasn't so obsessed with the latest Flash and so on).

--

J. P. Gilliver

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