Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for a

completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,

nothing)?

 

I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by temporarily

shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I don't

know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do have a

voltmeter, however.

[Guest philo]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

 

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:uobPc4$oIHA.5096@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for a

> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,

> nothing)?

>

> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by temporarily

> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I don't

> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do have

a

> voltmeter, however.

>

>

I assume it's an ATX you are asking about.

If it's an ATX supply just touch the green wire to the chassis.

 

I advise keeping one harddrive connected to it since it's a 'switching' type

supply and may require

some load to run.

 

If it does not even turn on or power a HD it's dead of course...

but even if it powers the drive...I'd still check the other voltages as it

could still be defective of course.

 

BTW: If the PSU smells burned or if there's a capacitor rattling around

inside...

you need not go any further <G>

>

[Guest philo]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

 

"philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message

news:OIj4EAApIHA.1952@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

<snip>

 

meant to toss this in

 

http://pinouts.ru/Power/atxpower_pinout.shtml

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

Thanks Philo. I may try that, although it's an old Dell power supply with

its own unique connector wiring.

 

I found this out after the fact; a normal ATX replacement power supply will

NOT work in these old Dells, and, in fact, can and will damage the MB.

I've been reading some horror stories about it too. Nice, really nice...

 

Which is where I am at now. :-(

 

I'm feeling pretty sure its the MB at this point, because when I put in the

new PS, nothing happened (dead computer), and when I put back my old power

supply, nothing works anymore either (evidently no power to anything, no

disk noises, no lights, no monitor screen, nothing)

 

If I were a betting man, I'd bet the MB has been hosed now (so there is no

PS_ON signal), so I'm not getting power to the MB anymore. I guess it

wouldn't matter if I did, because I'm pretty sure the MB has been "taken

out" at this point.

 

Thanks, Dell (for your proprietary connector wiring)

 

 

philo wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:uobPc4$oIHA.5096@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for a

>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,

>> nothing)?

>>

>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by temporarily

>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I don't

>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do have

>> a

>> voltmeter, however.

>>

>>

> I assume it's an ATX you are asking about.

> If it's an ATX supply just touch the green wire to the chassis.

>

> I advise keeping one harddrive connected to it since it's a 'switching'

> type

> supply and may require

> some load to run.

>

> If it does not even turn on or power a HD it's dead of course...

> but even if it powers the drive...I'd still check the other voltages as it

> could still be defective of course.

>

> BTW: If the PSU smells burned or if there's a capacitor rattling around

> inside...

> you need not go any further <G>

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power supply and

it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.

 

Bill in Co. wrote:

> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for a

> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,

> nothing)?

>

> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by temporarily

> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I don't

> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do have

> a

> voltmeter, however.

[Guest philo]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

 

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power supply and

> it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.

>

> Bill in Co. wrote:

> > Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for a

> > completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,

> > nothing)?

> >

> > I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by temporarily

> > shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I don't

> > know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do

have

> > a

> > voltmeter, however.

>

>

 

Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of course.

 

IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer machines.

 

 

If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of course need

to be a Dell

of approx the same vintage as the old one

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

philo wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power supply

>> and

>> it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.

>>

>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for a

>>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,

>>> nothing)?

>>>

>>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by temporarily

>>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I don't

>>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do

>>> have

>>> a voltmeter, however.

>

> Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of course.

>

> IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer machines.

 

I heard that. It would have been nice if they had done that earlier.

I think the real reason they didn't, was that they wanted you to get the

replacement power supplies from them, and only them.

>

> If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of course need

> to be a Dell of approx the same vintage as the old one

 

Yup. Same part number - same board. So, we shall see..

[Guest philo]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

 

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:OqpHgmEpIHA.2256@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> philo wrote:

> > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> > news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> >> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power supply

> >> and

> >> it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.

> >>

> >> Bill in Co. wrote:

> >>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for

a

> >>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,

> >>> nothing)?

> >>>

> >>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by

temporarily

> >>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I

don't

> >>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do

> >>> have

> >>> a voltmeter, however.

> >

> > Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of

course.

> >

> > IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer machines.

>

> I heard that. It would have been nice if they had done that earlier.

> I think the real reason they didn't, was that they wanted you to get the

> replacement power supplies from them, and only them.

>

 

Yep...but I guess they got called on it!

I do a lot of computer repair work and have a number of spare proprietary

supplies...

actually used one about a year ago.

 

> >

> > If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of course

need

> > to be a Dell of approx the same vintage as the old one

>

> Yup. Same part number - same board. So, we shall see..

>

>

Glad you could get the same board...

Just a passing thought...on your old board...did you try resetting the cmos?

Sometimes that's all it takes...

Though it probably won't do anything...I'd probasbly try it anyway

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

philo wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:OqpHgmEpIHA.2256@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>> philo wrote:

>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>>> news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power supply

>>>> and it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.

>>>>

>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for

>>>>> a

>>>>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,

>>>>> nothing)?

>>>>>

>>>>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by

>>>>> temporarily

>>>>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I

>>>>> don't

>>>>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do

>>>>> have a voltmeter, however.

>>>

>>> Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of

>>> course.

>>>

>>> IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer machines.

>>

>> I heard that. It would have been nice if they had done that earlier.

>> I think the real reason they didn't, was that they wanted you to get the

>> replacement power supplies from them, and only them.

>

> Yep...but I guess they got called on it!

> I do a lot of computer repair work and have a number of spare proprietary

> supplies...

> actually used one about a year ago.

 

Interesting!

>>>

>>> If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of course

>>> need

>>> to be a Dell of approx the same vintage as the old one

>>

>> Yup. Same part number - same board. So, we shall see..

>>

> Glad you could get the same board...

> Just a passing thought...on your old board...did you try resetting the

> cmos?

> Sometimes that's all it takes...

> Though it probably won't do anything...I'd probasbly try it anyway

 

I can't reset the cmos, cause it's totally dead. And I'm pretty sure the

MB is fried, because when I compared the std ATX power connections to the

Dell ones, I can sure see how it screwed it up (i.e. the wrong voltages and

even polarities! going to the wrong pins - Nasty).

 

I had just upgraded the microprocessor (with a Powerleap microprocessor

upgrade) and BIOS on this computer (the BIOS upgrade from Dell xx to Intel

xy was required for the Powerleap microprocessor upgrade to work).

 

But what I'm going to do when the new empty MB arrives, is put my original

Dell microprocessor back into it, since its (Dell) BIOS will be for that

version (or close to it).

 

However, I do have a question: After I upgraded the microprocessor to

Powerleap (which required a special Intel BIOS flash upgrade), the computer

at bootup added a couple of new USB drivers (or some PCI Bridge, or

something like that), in windows, during its initial bootup.

 

So my question is:

Since I'll be using the older BIOS (which didn't need or install that extra

USB driver stuff), is there a potential problem? I do have a slightly

older backup copy of my system drive PRIOR to the Powerleap microprocessor

and BIOS updates.

 

What happens if I don't use that backup, but instead just use the hard drive

already in there (which was set up with the newer Intel BIOS, and which

added a few new USB drivers in windows)? Is that going to be a possible

problem?

[Guest philo]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

 

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:%23m20NUKpIHA.3860@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> philo wrote:

> > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> > news:OqpHgmEpIHA.2256@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> >> philo wrote:

> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> >>> news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> >>>> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power

supply

> >>>> and it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.

> >>>>

> >>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

> >>>>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities

(for

> >>>>> a

> >>>>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk

activity,

> >>>>> nothing)?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by

> >>>>> temporarily

> >>>>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I

> >>>>> don't

> >>>>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do

> >>>>> have a voltmeter, however.

> >>>

> >>> Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of

> >>> course.

> >>>

> >>> IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer

machines.

> >>

> >> I heard that. It would have been nice if they had done that earlier.

> >> I think the real reason they didn't, was that they wanted you to get

the

> >> replacement power supplies from them, and only them.

> >

> > Yep...but I guess they got called on it!

> > I do a lot of computer repair work and have a number of spare

proprietary

> > supplies...

> > actually used one about a year ago.

>

> Interesting!

>

> >>>

> >>> If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of course

> >>> need

> >>> to be a Dell of approx the same vintage as the old one

> >>

> >> Yup. Same part number - same board. So, we shall see..

> >>

> > Glad you could get the same board...

> > Just a passing thought...on your old board...did you try resetting the

> > cmos?

> > Sometimes that's all it takes...

> > Though it probably won't do anything...I'd probasbly try it anyway

>

> I can't reset the cmos, cause it's totally dead. And I'm pretty sure

the

> MB is fried, because when I compared the std ATX power connections to the

> Dell ones, I can sure see how it screwed it up (i.e. the wrong voltages

and

> even polarities! going to the wrong pins - Nasty).

>

> I had just upgraded the microprocessor (with a Powerleap microprocessor

> upgrade) and BIOS on this computer (the BIOS upgrade from Dell xx to Intel

> xy was required for the Powerleap microprocessor upgrade to work).

>

> But what I'm going to do when the new empty MB arrives, is put my original

> Dell microprocessor back into it, since its (Dell) BIOS will be for that

> version (or close to it).

>

> However, I do have a question: After I upgraded the microprocessor to

> Powerleap (which required a special Intel BIOS flash upgrade), the

computer

> at bootup added a couple of new USB drivers (or some PCI Bridge, or

> something like that), in windows, during its initial bootup.

>

> So my question is:

> Since I'll be using the older BIOS (which didn't need or install that

extra

> USB driver stuff), is there a potential problem? I do have a slightly

> older backup copy of my system drive PRIOR to the Powerleap microprocessor

> and BIOS updates.

>

> What happens if I don't use that backup, but instead just use the hard

drive

> already in there (which was set up with the newer Intel BIOS, and which

> added a few new USB drivers in windows)? Is that going to be a

possible

> problem?

>

>

 

 

Since this is a win98 group I'd like to confirm that your OS is win98...

but the bottom line is that your OS should be able to reconfigure itself

with minor changes to your hardware or bios.

 

Since the board will be the same and use the same chipset...it's not too

likely the change of a few USB components

will hurt anything.

 

There are of course no guarantees but I would not expect any trouble

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

philo wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:%23m20NUKpIHA.3860@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>> philo wrote:

>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>>> news:OqpHgmEpIHA.2256@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>>> philo wrote:

>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>>>>> news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>>>> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power

>>>>>> supply

>>>>>> and it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>>>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities

>>>>>>> (for

>>>>>>> a

>>>>>>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk

>>>>>>> activity,

>>>>>>> nothing)?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by

>>>>>>> temporarily

>>>>>>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I

>>>>>>> don't

>>>>>>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do

>>>>>>> have a voltmeter, however.

>>>>>

>>>>> Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of

>>>>> course.

>>>>>

>>>>> IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer

>>>>> machines.

>>>>

>>>> I heard that. It would have been nice if they had done that earlier.

>>>> I think the real reason they didn't, was that they wanted you to get

>>>> the

>>>> replacement power supplies from them, and only them.

>>>

>>> Yep...but I guess they got called on it!

>>> I do a lot of computer repair work and have a number of spare

>>> proprietary

>>> supplies...

>>> actually used one about a year ago.

>>

>> Interesting!

>>

>>>>>

>>>>> If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of course

>>>>> need

>>>>> to be a Dell of approx the same vintage as the old one

>>>>

>>>> Yup. Same part number - same board. So, we shall see..

>>>>

>>> Glad you could get the same board...

>>> Just a passing thought...on your old board...did you try resetting the

>>> cmos?

>>> Sometimes that's all it takes...

>>> Though it probably won't do anything...I'd probasbly try it anyway

>>

>> I can't reset the cmos, cause it's totally dead. And I'm pretty sure

>> the

>> MB is fried, because when I compared the std ATX power connections to the

>> Dell ones, I can sure see how it screwed it up (i.e. the wrong voltages

>> and

>> even polarities! going to the wrong pins - Nasty).

>>

>> I had just upgraded the microprocessor (with a Powerleap microprocessor

>> upgrade) and BIOS on this computer (the BIOS upgrade from Dell xx to

>> Intel

>> xy was required for the Powerleap microprocessor upgrade to work).

>>

>> But what I'm going to do when the new empty MB arrives, is put my

>> original

>> Dell microprocessor back into it, since its (Dell) BIOS will be for that

>> version (or close to it).

>>

>> However, I do have a question: After I upgraded the microprocessor to

>> Powerleap (which required a special Intel BIOS flash upgrade), the

>> computer

>> at bootup added a couple of new USB drivers (or some PCI Bridge, or

>> something like that), in windows, during its initial bootup.

>>

>> So my question is:

>> Since I'll be using the older BIOS (which didn't need or install that

>> extra

>> USB driver stuff), is there a potential problem? I do have a slightly

>> older backup copy of my system drive PRIOR to the Powerleap

>> microprocessor

>> and BIOS updates.

>>

>> What happens if I don't use that backup, but instead just use the hard

>> drive

>> already in there (which was set up with the newer Intel BIOS, and which

>> added a few new USB drivers in windows)? Is that going to be a

>> possible

>> problem?

>>

>

> Since this is a win98 group I'd like to confirm that your OS is win98...

 

Yup, that's it.

> but the bottom line is that your OS should be able to reconfigure itself

> with minor changes to your hardware or bios.

>

> Since the board will be the same and use the same chipset...it's not too

> likely the change of a few USB components will hurt anything.

 

OK - that sounds encouraging. Actually I found out what the newer BIOS

ended up adding in windows: it added another USB Universal Host Controller,

as follows:

 

I already had an Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2442),

and it added a:

Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2444),

AND two USB Root Hubs (underneath it, I assume). Why, I don't know. Does

that make any sense? (It sounds like the newer BIOS added an additional

controller for some reason, OR else maybe wants to use that one in place of

the older one (type 2442)

 

So - I'm assuming if I boot up with the older BIOS, that that second USB

Universal Host Controller (2444) and its two hubs won't be there anymore,

nor will it be installed. Is that right? (I really don't understand

what's going on there, though).

[Guest philo]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

 

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:uFM4PaNpIHA.5916@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> philo wrote:

> > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> > news:%23m20NUKpIHA.3860@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> >> philo wrote:

> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> >>> news:OqpHgmEpIHA.2256@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> >>>> philo wrote:

> >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> >>>>> news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> >>>>>> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power

> >>>>>> supply

> >>>>>> and it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

> >>>>>>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities

> >>>>>>> (for

> >>>>>>> a

> >>>>>>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk

> >>>>>>> activity,

> >>>>>>> nothing)?

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by

> >>>>>>> temporarily

> >>>>>>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I

> >>>>>>> don't

> >>>>>>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I

do

> >>>>>>> have a voltmeter, however.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of

> >>>>> course.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer

> >>>>> machines.

> >>>>

> >>>> I heard that. It would have been nice if they had done that earlier.

> >>>> I think the real reason they didn't, was that they wanted you to get

> >>>> the

> >>>> replacement power supplies from them, and only them.

> >>>

> >>> Yep...but I guess they got called on it!

> >>> I do a lot of computer repair work and have a number of spare

> >>> proprietary

> >>> supplies...

> >>> actually used one about a year ago.

> >>

> >> Interesting!

> >>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of

course

> >>>>> need

> >>>>> to be a Dell of approx the same vintage as the old one

> >>>>

> >>>> Yup. Same part number - same board. So, we shall see..

> >>>>

> >>> Glad you could get the same board...

> >>> Just a passing thought...on your old board...did you try resetting the

> >>> cmos?

> >>> Sometimes that's all it takes...

> >>> Though it probably won't do anything...I'd probasbly try it anyway

> >>

> >> I can't reset the cmos, cause it's totally dead. And I'm pretty sure

> >> the

> >> MB is fried, because when I compared the std ATX power connections to

the

> >> Dell ones, I can sure see how it screwed it up (i.e. the wrong voltages

> >> and

> >> even polarities! going to the wrong pins - Nasty).

> >>

> >> I had just upgraded the microprocessor (with a Powerleap microprocessor

> >> upgrade) and BIOS on this computer (the BIOS upgrade from Dell xx to

> >> Intel

> >> xy was required for the Powerleap microprocessor upgrade to work).

> >>

> >> But what I'm going to do when the new empty MB arrives, is put my

> >> original

> >> Dell microprocessor back into it, since its (Dell) BIOS will be for

that

> >> version (or close to it).

> >>

> >> However, I do have a question: After I upgraded the microprocessor to

> >> Powerleap (which required a special Intel BIOS flash upgrade), the

> >> computer

> >> at bootup added a couple of new USB drivers (or some PCI Bridge, or

> >> something like that), in windows, during its initial bootup.

> >>

> >> So my question is:

> >> Since I'll be using the older BIOS (which didn't need or install that

> >> extra

> >> USB driver stuff), is there a potential problem? I do have a

slightly

> >> older backup copy of my system drive PRIOR to the Powerleap

> >> microprocessor

> >> and BIOS updates.

> >>

> >> What happens if I don't use that backup, but instead just use the hard

> >> drive

> >> already in there (which was set up with the newer Intel BIOS, and which

> >> added a few new USB drivers in windows)? Is that going to be a

> >> possible

> >> problem?

> >>

> >

> > Since this is a win98 group I'd like to confirm that your OS is win98...

>

> Yup, that's it.

>

> > but the bottom line is that your OS should be able to reconfigure itself

> > with minor changes to your hardware or bios.

> >

> > Since the board will be the same and use the same chipset...it's not too

> > likely the change of a few USB components will hurt anything.

>

> OK - that sounds encouraging. Actually I found out what the newer BIOS

> ended up adding in windows: it added another USB Universal Host

Controller,

> as follows:

>

> I already had an Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2442),

> and it added a:

> Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2444),

> AND two USB Root Hubs (underneath it, I assume). Why, I don't know.

Does

> that make any sense? (It sounds like the newer BIOS added an

additional

> controller for some reason, OR else maybe wants to use that one in place

of

> the older one (type 2442)

>

> So - I'm assuming if I boot up with the older BIOS, that that second USB

> Universal Host Controller (2444) and its two hubs won't be there anymore,

> nor will it be installed. Is that right? (I really don't understand

> what's going on there, though).

>

>

 

Windows is designed to detect hardware changes upon bootup.

If you have hardware changes, any non-existant hardware will be uninstalled

(but will still contain registry entries which usually don't hurt anything)

Then your new hardware should be automatically detected and installed.

If the drivers for any new hardware are not already present...you will be

prompted for them.

 

Note: In the case of USB hubs...they are probably going to be reinstalled

with no prompting.

Even if you do not have drivers...Windows will still load OK...you'll just

see a warning in "device manager"

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

philo wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:uFM4PaNpIHA.5916@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> philo wrote:

>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>>> news:%23m20NUKpIHA.3860@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>>> philo wrote:

>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>>>>> news:OqpHgmEpIHA.2256@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>>>>>> philo wrote:

>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>>>>>>> news:%23mfpD3CpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>>>>>> OK. Thanks to all. Found a wiring diagram, tested the power

>>>>>>>> supply

>>>>>>>> and it's ok. So it's the MB, and I've got one coming.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>>>>>>>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities

>>>>>>>>> (for a

>>>>>>>>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk

>>>>>>>>> activity, nothing)?

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by

>>>>>>>>> temporarily

>>>>>>>>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I

>>>>>>>>> don't

>>>>>>>>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I

>>>>>>>>> do

>>>>>>>>> have a voltmeter, however.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Yes that like I gave you would have been for a standard supply of

>>>>>>> course.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> IIRC Dell eventually went to a standard supply for their newer

>>>>>>> machines.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I heard that. It would have been nice if they had done that earlier.

>>>>>> I think the real reason they didn't, was that they wanted you to get

>>>>>> the replacement power supplies from them, and only them.

>>>>>

>>>>> Yep...but I guess they got called on it!

>>>>> I do a lot of computer repair work and have a number of spare

>>>>> proprietary supplies...

>>>>> actually used one about a year ago.

>>>>

>>>> Interesting!

>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> If you use the existing supply, your replacement board will of

>>>>>>> course

>>>>>>> need to be a Dell of approx the same vintage as the old one

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Yup. Same part number - same board. So, we shall see..

>>>>>>

>>>>> Glad you could get the same board...

>>>>> Just a passing thought...on your old board...did you try resetting the

>>>>> cmos?

>>>>> Sometimes that's all it takes...

>>>>> Though it probably won't do anything...I'd probasbly try it anyway

>>>>

>>>> I can't reset the cmos, cause it's totally dead. And I'm pretty sure

>>>> the

>>>> MB is fried, because when I compared the std ATX power connections to

>>>> the Dell ones, I can sure see how it screwed it up (i.e. the wrong

>>>> voltages

>>>> and even polarities! going to the wrong pins - Nasty).

>>>>

>>>> I had just upgraded the microprocessor (with a Powerleap microprocessor

>>>> upgrade) and BIOS on this computer (the BIOS upgrade from Dell xx to

>>>> Intel xy was required for the Powerleap microprocessor upgrade to

>>>> work).

>>>>

>>>> But what I'm going to do when the new empty MB arrives, is put my

>>>> original

>>>> Dell microprocessor back into it, since its (Dell) BIOS will be for

>>>> that

>>>> version (or close to it).

>>>>

>>>> However, I do have a question: After I upgraded the microprocessor to

>>>> Powerleap (which required a special Intel BIOS flash upgrade), the

>>>> computer

>>>> at bootup added a couple of new USB drivers (or some PCI Bridge, or

>>>> something like that), in windows, during its initial bootup.

>>>>

>>>> So my question is:

>>>> Since I'll be using the older BIOS (which didn't need or install that

>>>> extra

>>>> USB driver stuff), is there a potential problem? I do have a

>>>> slightly

>>>> older backup copy of my system drive PRIOR to the Powerleap

>>>> microprocessor and BIOS updates.

>>>>

>>>> What happens if I don't use that backup, but instead just use the hard

>>>> drive

>>>> already in there (which was set up with the newer Intel BIOS, and which

>>>> added a few new USB drivers in windows)? Is that going to be a

>>>> possible problem?

>>>>

>>>

>>> Since this is a win98 group I'd like to confirm that your OS is win98...

>>

>> Yup, that's it.

>>

>>> but the bottom line is that your OS should be able to reconfigure itself

>>> with minor changes to your hardware or bios.

>>>

>>> Since the board will be the same and use the same chipset...it's not too

>>> likely the change of a few USB components will hurt anything.

>>

>> OK - that sounds encouraging. Actually I found out what the newer BIOS

>> ended up adding in windows: it added another USB Universal Host

>> Controller,

>> as follows:

>>

>> I already had an Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2442),

>> and it added a:

>> Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2444),

>> AND two USB Root Hubs (underneath it, I assume). Why, I don't know.

>> Does

>> that make any sense? (It sounds like the newer BIOS added an

>> additional

>> controller for some reason, OR else maybe wants to use that one in place

>> of

>> the older one (type 2442)

>>

>> So - I'm assuming if I boot up with the older BIOS, that that second USB

>> Universal Host Controller (2444) and its two hubs won't be there anymore,

>> nor will it be installed. Is that right? (I really don't understand

>> what's going on there, though).

>>

>

> Windows is designed to detect hardware changes upon bootup.

> If you have hardware changes, any non-existant hardware will be

> uninstalled

> (but will still contain registry entries which usually don't hurt

> anything)

> Then your new hardware should be automatically detected and installed.

> If the drivers for any new hardware are not already present...you will be

> prompted for them.

>

> Note: In the case of USB hubs...they are probably going to be reinstalled

> with no prompting.

> Even if you do not have drivers...Windows will still load OK...you'll just

> see a warning in "device manager"

 

OK. Thanks philo. I'll give it a go with the current drive once the MB

arrives.

[Guest philo]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

 

<snip>

> >>>>

> >>>> However, I do have a question: After I upgraded the microprocessor

to

> >>>> Powerleap (which required a special Intel BIOS flash upgrade), the

> >>>> computer

> >>>> at bootup added a couple of new USB drivers (or some PCI Bridge, or

> >>>> something like that), in windows, during its initial bootup.

> >>>>

> >>>> So my question is:

> >>>> Since I'll be using the older BIOS (which didn't need or install that

> >>>> extra

> >>>> USB driver stuff), is there a potential problem? I do have a

> >>>> slightly

> >>>> older backup copy of my system drive PRIOR to the Powerleap

> >>>> microprocessor and BIOS updates.

> >>>>

> >>>> What happens if I don't use that backup, but instead just use the

hard

> >>>> drive

> >>>> already in there (which was set up with the newer Intel BIOS, and

which

> >>>> added a few new USB drivers in windows)? Is that going to be a

> >>>> possible problem?

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>> Since this is a win98 group I'd like to confirm that your OS is

win98...

> >>

> >> Yup, that's it.

> >>

> >>> but the bottom line is that your OS should be able to reconfigure

itself

> >>> with minor changes to your hardware or bios.

> >>>

> >>> Since the board will be the same and use the same chipset...it's not

too

> >>> likely the change of a few USB components will hurt anything.

> >>

> >> OK - that sounds encouraging. Actually I found out what the newer

BIOS

> >> ended up adding in windows: it added another USB Universal Host

> >> Controller,

> >> as follows:

> >>

> >> I already had an Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller

(-2442),

> >> and it added a:

> >> Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2444),

> >> AND two USB Root Hubs (underneath it, I assume). Why, I don't know.

> >> Does

> >> that make any sense? (It sounds like the newer BIOS added an

> >> additional

> >> controller for some reason, OR else maybe wants to use that one in

place

> >> of

> >> the older one (type 2442)

> >>

> >> So - I'm assuming if I boot up with the older BIOS, that that second

USB

> >> Universal Host Controller (2444) and its two hubs won't be there

anymore,

> >> nor will it be installed. Is that right? (I really don't

understand

> >> what's going on there, though).

> >>

> >

> > Windows is designed to detect hardware changes upon bootup.

> > If you have hardware changes, any non-existant hardware will be

> > uninstalled

> > (but will still contain registry entries which usually don't hurt

> > anything)

> > Then your new hardware should be automatically detected and installed.

> > If the drivers for any new hardware are not already present...you will

be

> > prompted for them.

> >

> > Note: In the case of USB hubs...they are probably going to be

reinstalled

> > with no prompting.

> > Even if you do not have drivers...Windows will still load OK...you'll

just

> > see a warning in "device manager"

>

> OK. Thanks philo. I'll give it a go with the current drive once the MB

> arrives.

>

>

 

It should boot right up and go.

 

To keep things in-order...be sure to put all the same cards in the same

slots

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

philo wrote:

> <snip>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> However, I do have a question: After I upgraded the microprocessor

>>>>>> to

>>>>>> Powerleap (which required a special Intel BIOS flash upgrade), the

>>>>>> computer

>>>>>> at bootup added a couple of new USB drivers (or some PCI Bridge, or

>>>>>> something like that), in windows, during its initial bootup.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> So my question is:

>>>>>> Since I'll be using the older BIOS (which didn't need or install that

>>>>>> extra USB driver stuff), is there a potential problem? I do have

>>>>>> a

>>>>>> slightly

>>>>>> older backup copy of my system drive PRIOR to the Powerleap

>>>>>> microprocessor and BIOS updates.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> What happens if I don't use that backup, but instead just use the

>>>>>> hard

>>>>>> drive

>>>>>> already in there (which was set up with the newer Intel BIOS, and

>>>>>> which

>>>>>> added a few new USB drivers in windows)? Is that going to be a

>>>>>> possible problem?

>>>>>

>>>>> Since this is a win98 group I'd like to confirm that your OS is

>>>>> win98...

>>>>

>>>> Yup, that's it.

>>>>

>>>>> but the bottom line is that your OS should be able to reconfigure

>>>>> itself

>>>>> with minor changes to your hardware or bios.

>>>>>

>>>>> Since the board will be the same and use the same chipset...it's not

>>>>> too

>>>>> likely the change of a few USB components will hurt anything.

>>>>

>>>> OK - that sounds encouraging. Actually I found out what the newer

>>>> BIOS

>>>> ended up adding in windows: it added another USB Universal Host

>>>> Controller, as follows:

>>>>

>>>> I already had an Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller

>>>> (-2442),

>>>> and it added a:

>>>> Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2444),

>>>> AND two USB Root Hubs (underneath it, I assume). Why, I don't know.

>>>> Does that make any sense? (It sounds like the newer BIOS added an

>>>> additional

>>>> controller for some reason, OR else maybe wants to use that one in

>>>> place

>>>> of the older one (type 2442)

>>>>

>>>> So - I'm assuming if I boot up with the older BIOS, that that second

>>>> USB

>>>> Universal Host Controller (2444) and its two hubs won't be there

>>>> anymore,

>>>> nor will it be installed. Is that right? (I really don't

>>>> understand

>>>> what's going on there, though).

>>>>

>>>

>>> Windows is designed to detect hardware changes upon bootup.

>>> If you have hardware changes, any non-existant hardware will be

>>> uninstalled

>>> (but will still contain registry entries which usually don't hurt

>>> anything)

>>> Then your new hardware should be automatically detected and installed.

>>> If the drivers for any new hardware are not already present...you will

>>> be

>>> prompted for them.

>>>

>>> Note: In the case of USB hubs...they are probably going to be

>>> reinstalled

>>> with no prompting.

>>> Even if you do not have drivers...Windows will still load OK...you'll

>>> just

>>> see a warning in "device manager"

>>

>> OK. Thanks philo. I'll give it a go with the current drive once the MB

>> arrives.

>>

>

> It should boot right up and go.

>

> To keep things in-order...be sure to put all the same cards in the same

> slots

 

Definitely. And I'll even use my own CMOS battery (assuming the other one

comes with one), although maybe not at initial bootup.

 

I know it's wise at first boot to access BIOS, and make sure things look

right (since this is a new MB). Although I'm not sure if I should load the

BIOS defaults initially.

(I seem to recall that when BIOS's are changed, it can get you out of a

potential jam if you initially load the defaults. Not sure about that, but

I do remember one case where I had to do that).

 

After (assuming) I get it up and running, I'll reflash the BIOS to the

current version I've been using.

[Guest philo]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

<snip>

..

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Since the board will be the same and use the same chipset...it's not

> >>>>> too

> >>>>> likely the change of a few USB components will hurt anything.

> >>>>

> >>>> OK - that sounds encouraging. Actually I found out what the newer

> >>>> BIOS

> >>>> ended up adding in windows: it added another USB Universal Host

> >>>> Controller, as follows:

> >>>>

> >>>> I already had an Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller

> >>>> (-2442),

> >>>> and it added a:

> >>>> Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2444),

> >>>> AND two USB Root Hubs (underneath it, I assume). Why, I don't know.

> >>>> Does that make any sense? (It sounds like the newer BIOS added

an

> >>>> additional

> >>>> controller for some reason, OR else maybe wants to use that one in

> >>>> place

> >>>> of the older one (type 2442)

> >>>>

> >>>> So - I'm assuming if I boot up with the older BIOS, that that second

> >>>> USB

> >>>> Universal Host Controller (2444) and its two hubs won't be there

> >>>> anymore,

> >>>> nor will it be installed. Is that right? (I really don't

> >>>> understand

> >>>> what's going on there, though).

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>> Windows is designed to detect hardware changes upon bootup.

> >>> If you have hardware changes, any non-existant hardware will be

> >>> uninstalled

> >>> (but will still contain registry entries which usually don't hurt

> >>> anything)

> >>> Then your new hardware should be automatically detected and installed.

> >>> If the drivers for any new hardware are not already present...you will

> >>> be

> >>> prompted for them.

> >>>

> >>> Note: In the case of USB hubs...they are probably going to be

> >>> reinstalled

> >>> with no prompting.

> >>> Even if you do not have drivers...Windows will still load OK...you'll

> >>> just

> >>> see a warning in "device manager"

> >>

> >> OK. Thanks philo. I'll give it a go with the current drive once the

MB

> >> arrives.

> >>

> >

> > It should boot right up and go.

> >

> > To keep things in-order...be sure to put all the same cards in the same

> > slots

>

> Definitely. And I'll even use my own CMOS battery (assuming the other

one

> comes with one), although maybe not at initial bootup.

>

> I know it's wise at first boot to access BIOS, and make sure things look

> right (since this is a new MB). Although I'm not sure if I should load

the

> BIOS defaults initially.

> (I seem to recall that when BIOS's are changed, it can get you out of a

> potential jam if you initially load the defaults. Not sure about that,

but

> I do remember one case where I had to do that).

>

> After (assuming) I get it up and running, I'll reflash the BIOS to the

> current version I've been using.

>

>

 

Well you don't have to go so far as using your old cmos battery. <G>

 

As to reflashing the bios...

I'd not do that unless the new bios has some specific features that you

need.

 

If the flash fails for any reason...you can render your machine useless.

 

If you do need to flash the bios...

I recommend at least having the machine on a UPS!

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

philo wrote:

> <snip>

> .

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Since the board will be the same and use the same chipset...it's not

>>>>>>> too likely the change of a few USB components will hurt anything.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> OK - that sounds encouraging. Actually I found out what the newer

>>>>>> BIOS

>>>>>> ended up adding in windows: it added another USB Universal Host

>>>>>> Controller, as follows:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I already had an Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller

>>>>>> (-2442), and it added a:

>>>>>> Intel 82801BA BAM USB Universal Host Controller (-2444),

>>>>>> AND two USB Root Hubs (underneath it, I assume). Why, I don't know.

>>>>>> Does that make any sense? (It sounds like the newer BIOS added

>>>>>> an

>>>>>> additional

>>>>>> controller for some reason, OR else maybe wants to use that one in

>>>>>> place of the older one (type 2442)

>>>>>>

>>>>>> So - I'm assuming if I boot up with the older BIOS, that that second

>>>>>> USB Universal Host Controller (2444) and its two hubs won't be there

>>>>>> anymore, nor will it be installed. Is that right? (I really

>>>>>> don't

>>>>>> understand what's going on there, though).

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Windows is designed to detect hardware changes upon bootup.

>>>>> If you have hardware changes, any non-existant hardware will be

>>>>> uninstalled

>>>>> (but will still contain registry entries which usually don't hurt

>>>>> anything)

>>>>> Then your new hardware should be automatically detected and installed.

>>>>> If the drivers for any new hardware are not already present...you will

>>>>> be prompted for them.

>>>>>

>>>>> Note: In the case of USB hubs...they are probably going to be

>>>>> reinstalled

>>>>> with no prompting.

>>>>> Even if you do not have drivers...Windows will still load OK...you'll

>>>>> just see a warning in "device manager"

>>>>

>>>> OK. Thanks philo. I'll give it a go with the current drive once the

>>>> MB

>>>> arrives.

>>>>

>>>

>>> It should boot right up and go.

>>>

>>> To keep things in-order...be sure to put all the same cards in the same

>>> slots

>>

>> Definitely. And I'll even use my own CMOS battery (assuming the other

>> one

>> comes with one), although maybe not at initial bootup.

>>

>> I know it's wise at first boot to access BIOS, and make sure things look

>> right (since this is a new MB). Although I'm not sure if I should load

>> the

>> BIOS defaults initially.

>> (I seem to recall that when BIOS's are changed, it can get you out of a

>> potential jam if you initially load the defaults. Not sure about that,

>> but

>> I do remember one case where I had to do that).

>>

>> After (assuming) I get it up and running, I'll reflash the BIOS to the

>> current version I've been using.

>

> Well you don't have to go so far as using your old cmos battery. <G>

 

LOL. You're right, it probably makes zero difference! Except at least

I know my battery is ok.

> As to reflashing the bios...

> I'd not do that unless the new bios has some specific features that you

> need.

>

> If the flash fails for any reason...you can render your machine useless.

 

Yeah, I know. (Already created a similar problem with the power supply

replacement episode. I'm "almost" getting used to it, by now. :-)

 

Of course, there aren't all that many old Dell exact replacement MB's left

out there to fall back on. :-)

> If you do need to flash the bios...

> I recommend at least having the machine on a UPS!

 

That would be ideal.

[Guest philo]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

 

<snip>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Note: In the case of USB hubs...they are probably going to be

> >>>>> reinstalled

> >>>>> with no prompting.

> >>>>> Even if you do not have drivers...Windows will still load

OK...you'll

> >>>>> just see a warning in "device manager"

> >>>>

> >>>> OK. Thanks philo. I'll give it a go with the current drive once

the

> >>>> MB

> >>>> arrives.

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>> It should boot right up and go.

> >>>

> >>> To keep things in-order...be sure to put all the same cards in the

same

> >>> slots

> >>

> >> Definitely. And I'll even use my own CMOS battery (assuming the

other

> >> one

> >> comes with one), although maybe not at initial bootup.

> >>

> >> I know it's wise at first boot to access BIOS, and make sure things

look

> >> right (since this is a new MB). Although I'm not sure if I should

load

> >> the

> >> BIOS defaults initially.

> >> (I seem to recall that when BIOS's are changed, it can get you out of a

> >> potential jam if you initially load the defaults. Not sure about

that,

> >> but

> >> I do remember one case where I had to do that).

> >>

> >> After (assuming) I get it up and running, I'll reflash the BIOS to the

> >> current version I've been using.

> >

> > Well you don't have to go so far as using your old cmos battery. <G>

>

> LOL. You're right, it probably makes zero difference! Except at

least

> I know my battery is ok.

>

> > As to reflashing the bios...

> > I'd not do that unless the new bios has some specific features that you

> > need.

> >

> > If the flash fails for any reason...you can render your machine useless.

>

> Yeah, I know. (Already created a similar problem with the power supply

> replacement episode. I'm "almost" getting used to it, by now. :-)

>

> Of course, there aren't all that many old Dell exact replacement MB's left

> out there to fall back on. :-)

>

> > If you do need to flash the bios...

> > I recommend at least having the machine on a UPS!

>

> That would be ideal.

>

>

 

Well even if the day comes when you can no longer get an exact replacement

for the board...

you can still keep win98 going...it's ability to survive hardware changes is

really quite good.

 

My original win98 setup had survived through three different motherboards

until I finally decided to give up on win98 and switch over to Win2k.

I still can run Win98 if I want to on one of my "workshop" machines...

but most of my workl gets done on my Win2k machine!

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

philo wrote:

> <snip>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Note: In the case of USB hubs...they are probably going to be

>>>>>>> reinstalled

>>>>>>> with no prompting.

>>>>>>> Even if you do not have drivers...Windows will still load

>>>>>>> OK...you'll

>>>>>>> just see a warning in "device manager"

>>>>>>

>>>>>> OK. Thanks philo. I'll give it a go with the current drive once

>>>>>> the

>>>>>> MB

>>>>>> arrives.

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> It should boot right up and go.

>>>>>

>>>>> To keep things in-order...be sure to put all the same cards in the

>>>>> same

>>>>> slots

>>>>

>>>> Definitely. And I'll even use my own CMOS battery (assuming the

>>>> other

>>>> one

>>>> comes with one), although maybe not at initial bootup.

>>>>

>>>> I know it's wise at first boot to access BIOS, and make sure things

>>>> look

>>>> right (since this is a new MB). Although I'm not sure if I should

>>>> load

>>>> the

>>>> BIOS defaults initially.

>>>> (I seem to recall that when BIOS's are changed, it can get you out of a

>>>> potential jam if you initially load the defaults. Not sure about

>>>> that,

>>>> but

>>>> I do remember one case where I had to do that).

>>>>

>>>> After (assuming) I get it up and running, I'll reflash the BIOS to the

>>>> current version I've been using.

>>>

>>> Well you don't have to go so far as using your old cmos battery. <G>

>>

>> LOL. You're right, it probably makes zero difference! Except at

>> least

>> I know my battery is ok.

>>

>>> As to reflashing the bios...

>>> I'd not do that unless the new bios has some specific features that you

>>> need.

>>>

>>> If the flash fails for any reason...you can render your machine useless.

>>

>> Yeah, I know. (Already created a similar problem with the power

>> supply

>> replacement episode. I'm "almost" getting used to it, by now. :-)

>>

>> Of course, there aren't all that many old Dell exact replacement MB's

>> left

>> out there to fall back on. :-)

>>

>>> If you do need to flash the bios...

>>> I recommend at least having the machine on a UPS!

>>

>> That would be ideal.

>>

>>

>

> Well even if the day comes when you can no longer get an exact replacement

> for the board...

> you can still keep win98 going...it's ability to survive hardware changes

> is

> really quite good.

 

Yeah, I could do that I suppose if I had to, but it sure will be nice not

having to do anything much to get it to work just as before (I hope!), by

using the same MB replacement.

> My original win98 setup had survived through three different motherboards

 

Why three? Were you upgrading each time?

 

I wonder at what point the CPU required its own fan (directly mounted on its

heat sink) - I'm guessing when the microprocessor speed got to around 1 GHz,

or so.

 

This 800 MHz unit has a case fan and shround assembly that directs air down

to the CPU's heat sink The CPU/heatsink unit doesn't need - or have - a

fan directly mounted on it, like the new (higher speed) ones do, because of

their extra power dissipation.

> until I finally decided to give up on win98 and switch over to Win2k.

 

Because of ??

> I still can run Win98 if I want to on one of my "workshop" machines...

> but most of my workl gets done on my Win2k machine!

 

Really!!

[Guest philo]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

 

<snip>

> >

> > Well even if the day comes when you can no longer get an exact

replacement

> > for the board...

> > you can still keep win98 going...it's ability to survive hardware

changes

> > is

> > really quite good.

>

> Yeah, I could do that I suppose if I had to, but it sure will be nice not

> having to do anything much to get it to work just as before (I hope!), by

> using the same MB replacement.

>

> > My original win98 setup had survived through three different

motherboards

>

> Why three? Were you upgrading each time?

 

Yes.

Originally I had win98 on a p-1

then my next machine was an amd-450

and as I got newer motherboards I kept building "new" machines from all the

junk parts etc.

 

I lost track of how many motherboards my original win98 installation got

transferred to...

and I also kept cloning it to larger drives...

But recently I dumped Win98 from the machines that I use on a daily basis

>

> I wonder at what point the CPU required its own fan (directly mounted on

its

> heat sink) - I'm guessing when the microprocessor speed got to around 1

GHz,

> or so.

 

Though my original P-1 which was 75 mhz did not have a fan on the cpu's

heatsink...

Most machines with faster CPU's have a fan. I generally see fans on most

CPU's 133mhz and above...

though I have a number of P-II's with huge heat sinks that rely on

convection cooling only

>

> This 800 MHz unit has a case fan and shround assembly that directs air

down

> to the CPU's heat sink The CPU/heatsink unit doesn't need - or have -

a

> fan directly mounted on it, like the new (higher speed) ones do, because

of

> their extra power dissipation.

>

> > until I finally decided to give up on win98 and switch over to Win2k.

>

> Because of ??

 

I had been dual booting win98 and win2k and found win2k considerably more

stable.

With the last motherboard replacement...my Win98 installation had been so

modified over the years

that it would have been time to just do a fresh install.

 

Since I do a lot of computer repair work I have literally boxes of spare

parts and generally

at least 20 spare machines in my workshop at any time...so I just have win98

on one of my workshop machines.

I use removable drive kits...and must have at least 22 different OS's at my

disposal

>

> > I still can run Win98 if I want to on one of my "workshop" machines...

> > but most of my workl gets done on my Win2k machine!

>

> Really!!

>

>

[Guest Curt Christianson]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

Hi Bill,

 

Bear in mind what Philo said--Dell's power supply *was* propriety at one

time, which therefore made the mobo the same. Worse yet, you can't simply

tell by looking, rather than with a voltmeter. You just can trust

pin-outs.

 

That being said, they (Dell) must haven't gotten enough flak that they went

back to a more standard design.

 

Be extra careful my friend.

 

--

HTH,

 

Curt

 

http://dundats.mvps.org/

http://www.aumha.org/

 

 

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:OxnqQGCpIHA.4884@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> Thanks Philo. I may try that, although it's an old Dell power supply

> with its own unique connector wiring.

>

> I found this out after the fact; a normal ATX replacement power supply

> will NOT work in these old Dells, and, in fact, can and will damage the

> MB. I've been reading some horror stories about it too. Nice, really

> nice...

>

> Which is where I am at now. :-(

>

> I'm feeling pretty sure its the MB at this point, because when I put in

> the new PS, nothing happened (dead computer), and when I put back my old

> power supply, nothing works anymore either (evidently no power to

> anything, no disk noises, no lights, no monitor screen, nothing)

>

> If I were a betting man, I'd bet the MB has been hosed now (so there is no

> PS_ON signal), so I'm not getting power to the MB anymore. I guess it

> wouldn't matter if I did, because I'm pretty sure the MB has been "taken

> out" at this point.

>

> Thanks, Dell (for your proprietary connector wiring)

>

>

> philo wrote:

>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>> news:uobPc4$oIHA.5096@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for a

>>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,

>>> nothing)?

>>>

>>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by temporarily

>>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I don't

>>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do

>>> have a

>>> voltmeter, however.

>>>

>>>

>> I assume it's an ATX you are asking about.

>> If it's an ATX supply just touch the green wire to the chassis.

>>

>> I advise keeping one harddrive connected to it since it's a 'switching'

>> type

>> supply and may require

>> some load to run.

>>

>> If it does not even turn on or power a HD it's dead of course...

>> but even if it powers the drive...I'd still check the other voltages as

>> it

>> could still be defective of course.

>>

>> BTW: If the PSU smells burned or if there's a capacitor rattling around

>> inside...

>> you need not go any further <G>

>

>

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Dead Computer - Power Supply or Motherboard?

 

Fortunately, it is all resolved now. I had to replace the motherboard.

But at least I could still find one! So now it's back up and running.

:-)

 

Curt Christianson wrote:

> Hi Bill,

>

> Bear in mind what Philo said--Dell's power supply *was* propriety at one

> time, which therefore made the mobo the same. Worse yet, you can't

> simply

> tell by looking, rather than with a voltmeter. You just can trust

> pin-outs.

>

> That being said, they (Dell) must haven't gotten enough flak that they

> went

> back to a more standard design.

>

> Be extra careful my friend.

>

> --

> HTH,

>

> Curt

>

> http://dundats.mvps.org/

> http://www.aumha.org/

>

>

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:OxnqQGCpIHA.4884@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> Thanks Philo. I may try that, although it's an old Dell power supply

>> with its own unique connector wiring.

>>

>> I found this out after the fact; a normal ATX replacement power supply

>> will NOT work in these old Dells, and, in fact, can and will damage the

>> MB. I've been reading some horror stories about it too. Nice, really

>> nice...

>>

>> Which is where I am at now. :-(

>>

>> I'm feeling pretty sure its the MB at this point, because when I put in

>> the new PS, nothing happened (dead computer), and when I put back my old

>> power supply, nothing works anymore either (evidently no power to

>> anything, no disk noises, no lights, no monitor screen, nothing)

>>

>> If I were a betting man, I'd bet the MB has been hosed now (so there is

>> no

>> PS_ON signal), so I'm not getting power to the MB anymore. I guess it

>> wouldn't matter if I did, because I'm pretty sure the MB has been "taken

>> out" at this point.

>>

>> Thanks, Dell (for your proprietary connector wiring)

>>

>>

>> philo wrote:

>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>>> news:uobPc4$oIHA.5096@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>>> Is there any simple test to eliminate one of those possibilities (for a

>>>> completely dead computer - no lights, no fans, no hard disk activity,

>>>> nothing)?

>>>>

>>>> I have read that it is possible to check the power supply by

>>>> temporarily

>>>> shorting two pins together, but I don't know which two pins, and I

>>>> don't

>>>> know if that will work without any load on the power supply. I do

>>>> have a

>>>> voltmeter, however.

>>>>

>>>>

>>> I assume it's an ATX you are asking about.

>>> If it's an ATX supply just touch the green wire to the chassis.

>>>

>>> I advise keeping one harddrive connected to it since it's a 'switching'

>>> type

>>> supply and may require

>>> some load to run.

>>>

>>> If it does not even turn on or power a HD it's dead of course...

>>> but even if it powers the drive...I'd still check the other voltages as

>>> it

>>> could still be defective of course.

>>>

>>> BTW: If the PSU smells burned or if there's a capacitor rattling around

>>> inside...

>>> you need not go any further <G>