Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

April 12, 2008

(Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS newsgroups

on

the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there" already).

I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell

without

USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find

any

USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research on

the

net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do exist,

but:

1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's

BIOS,

but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.

2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE,

but

none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does anybody

know

of any others?

3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it

instead be

possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse

instead,

or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these

DOS

boot disks, or other DOS apps)?

Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!

Bill

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 12, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

My first suggestion would be to look on usbman for drivers.

Second, does the BIOS offer PS2 emulation?

----------

There have been times, depending upon the manufacturer, that DOS

drivers

were produced for older mouse models, but will provide support for

newer

models [sometimes even other manufacturer's models].

There were cards produced to provide PS2 addin, many of those were ISA,

though some were PCI.

http://www.driverforum.com/inputdevice3/820.html

http://www.mdgx.com/drv.htm

http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/13447.html -towards the

bottom

of the page discussing the Panasonic driver used with optical mouse

though

WITH USB legacy support [showing file configs]. Perhaps a bit of

playing

around with that driver might produce results..

There were also several commercial DOS USB drivers written, though

never

free.

Some have used the 98 USB driver sys file to provide support [also in

2000,

XP] when loaded in config.sys for DOS box usage.

hidusb.sys [included in: DDK, several mouse driver installations,

upgrades/patches to 2000-XP]

http://www.usb-drivers.com/drivers/16/16047.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/connect/usb/usbfaq_intro.mspx

And finally, did you check any of the free DOS replacement OSs?

--

MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

--

_________

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

| (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS

newsgroups on

| the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there"

already).

|

| I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell

without

| USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find

any

| USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research

on the

| net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do

exist,

but:

|

| 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's

BIOS,

| but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.

|

| 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE,

but

| none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does

anybody

know

| of any others?

|

| 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it

instead

be

| possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse

instead,

| or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these

DOS

| boot disks, or other DOS apps)?

|

| Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!

|

| Bill

|

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 12, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS

newsgroups on

> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there"

already).

>

> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell

without

> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't find

any

> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research

on the

> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do

exist,

but:

>

> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell computer's

BIOS,

> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.

>

> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also DUSE,

but

> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does

anybody

know

> of any others?

>

> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it

instead

be

> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse

instead,

> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these

DOS

> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?

>

> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!

>

> Bill

>

http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 12, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

philo wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS

newsgroups on

>> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there"

already).

>>

>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell

without

>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't

find any

>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research

on

>> the

>> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do

exist,

>> but:

>>

>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell

computer's

>> BIOS,

>> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.

>>

>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also

DUSE, but

>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does

anybody

>> know

>> of any others?

>>

>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it

instead

>> be

>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse

>> instead,

>> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these

DOS

>> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?

>>

>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!

>>

>> Bill

>>

>

> http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm

Thanks philo, but I already checked this site out, and the only thing

they

had for this was as quoted below, which didn't work for me:

(evidently

there are several USB DOS drivers for Mass Storage devices, but not so

many

for mice)

http://www.bootdisk.com/readme.htm

USB Mouse In DOS:

Your bios may already support USB mice and keyboards. Check there, look

for

something that says USB Legacy support or similiar. This is a much

better

option than using third party software.

*** which I unfortunately don't have

If you have a USB mouse here are two files, either one should find your

USB

mouse in DOS. Docs are included with the zip-pack called: USBmice.

Essentially all you do is either load up ohci.exe or uhci.exe in

autoexec.bat

*** unfortunately, that didn't work for me (neither one did).

Please note that while the UBS Mouse files "should" get your USB mouse

to

work OK in simple programs like DOS Edit and other basic DOS

applications,

they will totally disappoint you for sophisticated DOS games. The files

are

also quite large and use a lot of base ram.

So I'll take a look at MEB's and see if anything else might work (and

reply

to him)

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 12, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:esLyKhNnIHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> philo wrote:

> > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> > news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> >> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS

newsgroups

on

> >> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there"

already).

> >>

> >> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell

without

> >> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't

find

any

> >> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some

research on

> >> the

> >> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do

exist,

> >> but:

> >>

> >> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell

computer's

> >> BIOS,

> >> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.

> >>

> >> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also

DUSE,

but

> >> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does

anybody

> >> know

> >> of any others?

> >>

> >> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it

instead

> >> be

> >> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2

mouse

> >> instead,

> >> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in

these

DOS

> >> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?

> >>

> >> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!

> >>

> >> Bill

> >>

> >

> > http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm

>

> Thanks philo, but I already checked this site out, and the only thing

they

> had for this was as quoted below, which didn't work for me:

(evidently

> there are several USB DOS drivers for Mass Storage devices, but not

so

many

> for mice)

There are some drivers listed here

but I have not tried them:

http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/

>

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 12, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

Thanks MEB, there is a lot here to digest, and I am working on it! So

thanks for all this info so far! Some (a lot) of the DOS drivers

I've

seen already are only for "Mass Storage" devices, however. (I did

not

look at DOS replacement yet (and hope not to need to go there - I'm not

that

much into DOS usage to warrant that. :-)

Just on the off chance that I can't find a working DOS driver (for my

USB

optical mouse), I was wondering about this, as a possible fallback

option:

I have seen a Serial Port PCI I/O card, which says it is DOS

compatible, so

if I get a Serial (or PS/2) mouse, shouldn't that work (as a last

resort),

no matter what?

Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial adapter

to

plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI I/O

cards yet, so that's why the serial card)

My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a

stretch

for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,

technically), but I'm not sure.

MEB wrote:

> My first suggestion would be to look on usbman for drivers.

>

> Second, does the BIOS offer PS2 emulation?

> ----------

> There have been times, depending upon the manufacturer, that DOS

drivers

> were produced for older mouse models, but will provide support for

newer

> models [sometimes even other manufacturer's models].

>

> There were cards produced to provide PS2 addin, many of those were

ISA,

> though some were PCI.

>

> http://www.driverforum.com/inputdevice3/820.html

> http://www.mdgx.com/drv.htm

> http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/13447.html -towards the

bottom

> of the page discussing the Panasonic driver used with optical mouse

though

> WITH USB legacy support [showing file configs]. Perhaps a bit of

playing

> around with that driver might produce results..

>

> There were also several commercial DOS USB drivers written, though

never

> free.

>

> Some have used the 98 USB driver sys file to provide support [also in

> 2000,

> XP] when loaded in config.sys for DOS box usage.

> hidusb.sys [included in: DDK, several mouse driver installations,

> upgrades/patches to 2000-XP]

> http://www.usb-drivers.com/drivers/16/16047.htm

> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/connect/usb/usbfaq_intro.mspx

>

> And finally, did you check any of the free DOS replacement OSs?

>

> --

> MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

> --

> _________

>

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS

newsgroups on

>> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there"

already).

>>

>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell

without

>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't

find any

>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research

on

>> the

>> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do

exist,

>> but:

>>

>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell

computer's

>> BIOS,

>> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.

>>

>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also

DUSE, but

>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does

anybody

>> know

>> of any others?

>>

>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it

instead

>> be

>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse

>> instead,

>> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in these

DOS

>> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?

>>

>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!

>>

>> Bill

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 12, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

philo wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:esLyKhNnIHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> philo wrote:

>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>>> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS

newsgroups

>>>> on

>>>> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there"

already).

>>>>

>>>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell

>>>> without

>>>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't

find

>>>> any

>>>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some

research on

>>>> the

>>>> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do

exist,

>>>> but:

>>>>

>>>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell

computer's

>>>> BIOS,

>>>> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.

>>>>

>>>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also

DUSE,

>>>> but

>>>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does

anybody

>>>> know

>>>> of any others?

>>>>

>>>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it

>>>> instead

>>>> be

>>>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2

mouse

>>>> instead,

>>>> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in

these

>>>> DOS

>>>> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?

>>>>

>>>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!

>>>>

>>>> Bill

>>>>

>>>

>>> http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm

>>

>> Thanks philo, but I already checked this site out, and the only

thing

>> they

>> had for this was as quoted below, which didn't work for me:

(evidently

>> there are several USB DOS drivers for Mass Storage devices, but not

so

>> many

>> for mice)

>

> There are some drivers listed here

> but I have not tried them:

>

> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/

Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two included in

that

other zip I tried).

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 12, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

Just a followup. I can't believe I missed something here!

On a hunch, I tried loading "mouse.exe", and THAT worked in DOS -

without

ANY of these other USB drivers.

I think I've been spinning my wheels on something that wasn't a problem

to

begin with, in that I never explicitly loaded a mouse driver, per se,

(I

just assumed the old Microsoft "mouse.exe" driver (dated 1999!) would

NOT be

compatible with USB mice). Duh to me.

Wonder if that hadn't worked if using a serial port PCI I/O card with

a

serial mouse or PS/2 would have worked.

Interesting.

Thanks, MEB.

Bill in Co. wrote:

> Thanks MEB, there is a lot here to digest, and I am working on it!

So

> thanks for all this info so far! Some (a lot) of the DOS drivers

I've

> seen already are only for "Mass Storage" devices, however. (I did

not

> look at DOS replacement yet (and hope not to need to go there - I'm

not

> that

> much into DOS usage to warrant that. :-)

>

> Just on the off chance that I can't find a working DOS driver (for my

USB

> optical mouse), I was wondering about this, as a possible fallback

option:

>

> I have seen a Serial Port PCI I/O card, which says it is DOS

compatible,

> so

> if I get a Serial (or PS/2) mouse, shouldn't that work (as a last

resort),

> no matter what?

>

> Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial adapter

to

> plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI

I/O

> cards yet, so that's why the serial card)

>

> My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a

stretch

> for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,

> technically), but I'm not sure.

>

> MEB wrote:

>> My first suggestion would be to look on usbman for drivers.

>>

>> Second, does the BIOS offer PS2 emulation?

>> ----------

>> There have been times, depending upon the manufacturer, that DOS

drivers

>> were produced for older mouse models, but will provide support for

newer

>> models [sometimes even other manufacturer's models].

>>

>> There were cards produced to provide PS2 addin, many of those were

ISA,

>> though some were PCI.

>>

>> http://www.driverforum.com/inputdevice3/820.html

>> http://www.mdgx.com/drv.htm

>> http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/13447.html -towards the

>> bottom

>> of the page discussing the Panasonic driver used with optical mouse

>> though

>> WITH USB legacy support [showing file configs]. Perhaps a bit of

playing

>> around with that driver might produce results..

>>

>> There were also several commercial DOS USB drivers written, though

never

>> free.

>>

>> Some have used the 98 USB driver sys file to provide support [also

in

>> 2000,

>> XP] when loaded in config.sys for DOS box usage.

>> hidusb.sys [included in: DDK, several mouse driver installations,

>> upgrades/patches to 2000-XP]

>> http://www.usb-drivers.com/drivers/16/16047.htm

>> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/connect/usb/usbfaq_intro.mspx

>>

>> And finally, did you check any of the free DOS replacement OSs?

>>

>> --

>> MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

>> --

>> _________

>>

>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS

newsgroups

>>> on

>>> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there"

already).

>>>

>>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell

>>> without

>>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't

find

>>> any

>>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some research

on

>>> the

>>> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do

exist,

>>> but:

>>>

>>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell

computer's

>>> BIOS,

>>> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.

>>>

>>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also

DUSE,

>>> but

>>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does

anybody

>>> know

>>> of any others?

>>>

>>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it

>>> instead

>>> be

>>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2 mouse

>>> instead,

>>> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in

these DOS

>>> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?

>>>

>>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!

>>>

>>> Bill

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 12, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:uANlQxNnIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> philo wrote:

> > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> > news:esLyKhNnIHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> >> philo wrote:

> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> >>> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> >>>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS

newsgroups

> >>>> on

> >>>> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there"

already).

> >>>>

> >>>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new

Dell

> >>>> without

> >>>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't

find

> >>>> any

> >>>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some

research

on

> >>>> the

> >>>> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do

exist,

> >>>> but:

> >>>>

> >>>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell

computer's

> >>>> BIOS,

> >>>> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.

> >>>>

> >>>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also

DUSE,

> >>>> but

> >>>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does

anybody

> >>>> know

> >>>> of any others?

> >>>>

> >>>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would

it

> >>>> instead

> >>>> be

> >>>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2

mouse

> >>>> instead,

> >>>> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in

these

> >>>> DOS

> >>>> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?

> >>>>

> >>>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!

> >>>>

> >>>> Bill

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>> http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm

> >>

> >> Thanks philo, but I already checked this site out, and the only

thing

> >> they

> >> had for this was as quoted below, which didn't work for me:

(evidently

> >> there are several USB DOS drivers for Mass Storage devices, but

not so

> >> many

> >> for mice)

> >

> > There are some drivers listed here

> > but I have not tried them:

> >

> > http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/

>

> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two included in

that

> other zip I tried).

>

Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...

I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)

but who knows if it would work in dos???

Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine to run

dos

applications?

I'm sure a $5 pentium-1 machine would run dos just fine.

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

philo wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:uANlQxNnIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> philo wrote:

>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>>> news:esLyKhNnIHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>>>> philo wrote:

>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>>>>> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS

>>>>>> newsgroups

>>>>>> on the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there"

>>>>>> already).

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new

Dell

>>>>>> without

>>>>>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't

find

>>>>>> any

>>>>>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some

research

>>>>>> on

>>>>>> the net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers

do

>>>>>> exist,

>>>>>> but:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell

computer's

>>>>>> BIOS, but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of

course.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also

DUSE,

>>>>>> but

>>>>>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does

anybody

>>>>>> know of any others?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would

it

>>>>>> instead be

>>>>>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2

mouse

>>>>>> instead, or something along those lines, to allow for mouse

support

>>>>>> (in

>>>>>> these DOS boot disks, or other DOS apps)?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Bill

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm

>>>>

>>>> Thanks philo, but I already checked this site out, and the only

thing

>>>> they

>>>> had for this was as quoted below, which didn't work for me:

(evidently

>>>> there are several USB DOS drivers for Mass Storage devices, but

not so

>>>> many for mice)

>>>

>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried them:

>>>

>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/

>>

>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two included

in

>> that

>> other zip I tried).

>

> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...

> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)

> but who knows if it would work in dos???

That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were also

available.

Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because I did

see a

Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with Win9x, XP, etc,

so

presumably some drivers are also included if needed).

> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine to run

dos

> applications?

I didn't! (except for a few occasions).

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

Well, I must say that somewhat surprises me as well, that is not what is

generally found [generally the first failure encountered].

It would be interesting to know the manufacturer and model for that USB

mouse, so others might find this on the net for their attempts.

Might be wise to put up the motherboard/computer manufacturer and model

as

well. This would, perhaps, allow placement of the chipset information.

Seems you may have USB compatibility/PS2 emulation in-built and turned

on

by default.

--

MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

--

_________

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:urhoL7OnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

| Just a followup. I can't believe I missed something here!

|

| On a hunch, I tried loading "mouse.exe", and THAT worked in DOS -

without

| ANY of these other USB drivers.

|

| I think I've been spinning my wheels on something that wasn't a

problem to

| begin with, in that I never explicitly loaded a mouse driver, per se,

(I

| just assumed the old Microsoft "mouse.exe" driver (dated 1999!) would

NOT

be

| compatible with USB mice). Duh to me.

|

| Wonder if that hadn't worked if using a serial port PCI I/O card

with a

| serial mouse or PS/2 would have worked.

|

| Interesting.

|

| Thanks, MEB.

|

| Bill in Co. wrote:

| > Thanks MEB, there is a lot here to digest, and I am working on it!

So

| > thanks for all this info so far! Some (a lot) of the DOS drivers

I've

| > seen already are only for "Mass Storage" devices, however. (I

did

not

| > look at DOS replacement yet (and hope not to need to go there - I'm

not

| > that

| > much into DOS usage to warrant that. :-)

| >

| > Just on the off chance that I can't find a working DOS driver (for

my

USB

| > optical mouse), I was wondering about this, as a possible fallback

option:

| >

| > I have seen a Serial Port PCI I/O card, which says it is DOS

compatible,

| > so

| > if I get a Serial (or PS/2) mouse, shouldn't that work (as a last

resort),

| > no matter what?

| >

| > Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial

adapter to

| > plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI

I/O

| > cards yet, so that's why the serial card)

| >

| > My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a

stretch

| > for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,

| > technically), but I'm not sure.

| >

| > MEB wrote:

| >> My first suggestion would be to look on usbman for drivers.

| >>

| >> Second, does the BIOS offer PS2 emulation?

| >> ----------

| >> There have been times, depending upon the manufacturer, that DOS

drivers

| >> were produced for older mouse models, but will provide support for

newer

| >> models [sometimes even other manufacturer's models].

| >>

| >> There were cards produced to provide PS2 addin, many of those were

ISA,

| >> though some were PCI.

| >>

| >> http://www.driverforum.com/inputdevice3/820.html

| >> http://www.mdgx.com/drv.htm

| >> http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/13447.html -towards

the

| >> bottom

| >> of the page discussing the Panasonic driver used with optical

mouse

| >> though

| >> WITH USB legacy support [showing file configs]. Perhaps a bit of

playing

| >> around with that driver might produce results..

| >>

| >> There were also several commercial DOS USB drivers written, though

never

| >> free.

| >>

| >> Some have used the 98 USB driver sys file to provide support [also

in

| >> 2000,

| >> XP] when loaded in config.sys for DOS box usage.

| >> hidusb.sys [included in: DDK, several mouse driver installations,

| >> upgrades/patches to 2000-XP]

| >> http://www.usb-drivers.com/drivers/16/16047.htm

| >> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/connect/usb/usbfaq_intro.mspx

| >>

| >> And finally, did you check any of the free DOS replacement OSs?

| >>

| >> --

| >> MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

| >> --

| >> _________

| >>

| >> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

| >> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

| >>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS

newsgroups

| >>> on

| >>> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there"

already).

| >>>

| >>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell

| >>> without

| >>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't

find

| >>> any

| >>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some

research on

| >>> the

| >>> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do

exist,

| >>> but:

| >>>

| >>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell

computer's

| >>> BIOS,

| >>> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.

| >>>

| >>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also

DUSE,

| >>> but

| >>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does

anybody

| >>> know

| >>> of any others?

| >>>

| >>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it

| >>> instead

| >>> be

| >>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2

mouse

| >>> instead,

| >>> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in

these

DOS

| >>> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?

| >>>

| >>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!

| >>>

| >>> Bill

|

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

I've got a Dell Inspiron 530 (with Windows XP), and it uses a basic Dell

optical mouse (connected - not wireless).

I occasionally boot up on DOS floppies, or, most recently, I can now

boot up

on a DOS USB flash disk, which is even better (this, by entering the

Dell

Boot Menu at bootup, and selecting this USB drive for boot).

(But since this is a Windows 98 group, I'm not sure if it will be of

much

help to anyone, since those computers will be older).

So USB controllers are, of course, built into this Windows XP computer,

but

in the BIOS, there is no "USB Legacy Option", or any "Legacy" option

shown,

for that matter, as a BIOS option. I think the Chipset here was an

Intel

G33, as I recall (but it's been awhile since I checked that).

I'm still surprised that old Microsoft "mouse.exe" driver (dated 1999)

worked, and therein saved me a major headache in time! Thanks again

for

your help, MEB.

MEB wrote:

> Well, I must say that somewhat surprises me as well, that is not what

is

> generally found [generally the first failure encountered].

>

> It would be interesting to know the manufacturer and model for that

USB

> mouse, so others might find this on the net for their attempts.

> Might be wise to put up the motherboard/computer manufacturer and

model as

> well. This would, perhaps, allow placement of the chipset

information.

>

> Seems you may have USB compatibility/PS2 emulation in-built and

turned on

> by default.

>

> --

> MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

> --

> _________

>

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:urhoL7OnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> Just a followup. I can't believe I missed something here!

>>

>> On a hunch, I tried loading "mouse.exe", and THAT worked in DOS -

without

>> ANY of these other USB drivers.

>>

>> I think I've been spinning my wheels on something that wasn't a

problem

>> to

>> begin with, in that I never explicitly loaded a mouse driver, per

se, (I

>> just assumed the old Microsoft "mouse.exe" driver (dated 1999!)

would NOT

>> be

>> compatible with USB mice). Duh to me.

>>

>> Wonder if that hadn't worked if using a serial port PCI I/O card

with a

>> serial mouse or PS/2 would have worked.

>>

>> Interesting.

>>

>> Thanks, MEB.

>>

>> Bill in Co. wrote:

>>> Thanks MEB, there is a lot here to digest, and I am working on it!

So

>>> thanks for all this info so far! Some (a lot) of the DOS drivers

I've

>>> seen already are only for "Mass Storage" devices, however. (I

did

>>> not

>>> look at DOS replacement yet (and hope not to need to go there - I'm

not

>>> that

>>> much into DOS usage to warrant that. :-)

>>>

>>> Just on the off chance that I can't find a working DOS driver (for

my

>>> USB

>>> optical mouse), I was wondering about this, as a possible fallback

>>> option:

>>>

>>> I have seen a Serial Port PCI I/O card, which says it is DOS

>>> compatible,

>>> so

>>> if I get a Serial (or PS/2) mouse, shouldn't that work (as a last

>>> resort),

>>> no matter what?

>>>

>>> Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial

adapter to

>>> plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI

I/O

>>> cards yet, so that's why the serial card)

>>>

>>> My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a

>>> stretch

>>> for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,

>>> technically), but I'm not sure.

>>>

>>> MEB wrote:

>>>> My first suggestion would be to look on usbman for drivers.

>>>>

>>>> Second, does the BIOS offer PS2 emulation?

>>>> ----------

>>>> There have been times, depending upon the manufacturer, that DOS

>>>> drivers

>>>> were produced for older mouse models, but will provide support for

>>>> newer

>>>> models [sometimes even other manufacturer's models].

>>>>

>>>> There were cards produced to provide PS2 addin, many of those were

ISA,

>>>> though some were PCI.

>>>>

>>>> http://www.driverforum.com/inputdevice3/820.html

>>>> http://www.mdgx.com/drv.htm

>>>> http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/13447.html -towards

the

>>>> bottom

>>>> of the page discussing the Panasonic driver used with optical

mouse

>>>> though

>>>> WITH USB legacy support [showing file configs]. Perhaps a bit of

>>>> playing

>>>> around with that driver might produce results..

>>>>

>>>> There were also several commercial DOS USB drivers written, though

>>>> never

>>>> free.

>>>>

>>>> Some have used the 98 USB driver sys file to provide support [also

in

>>>> 2000,

>>>> XP] when loaded in config.sys for DOS box usage.

>>>> hidusb.sys [included in: DDK, several mouse driver installations,

>>>> upgrades/patches to 2000-XP]

>>>> http://www.usb-drivers.com/drivers/16/16047.htm

>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/connect/usb/usbfaq_intro.mspx

>>>>

>>>> And finally, did you check any of the free DOS replacement OSs?

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>> MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

>>>> --

>>>> _________

>>>>

>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

>>>> news:e6z0jTFnIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>>>> (Before anyone asks: yes, I know there are a couple of DOS

newsgroups

>>>>> on

>>>>> the microsoft server, but they are unpopulated (been "there"

already).

>>>>>

>>>>> I'm looking for a USB mouse driver for DOS access (for a new Dell

>>>>> without

>>>>> USB legacy BIOS support). Some boot disks use DOS, but I can't

find

>>>>> any

>>>>> USB mouse drivers that work for me. I've been doing some

research on

>>>>> the

>>>>> net, and in the Dell user forums, and know some such drivers do

exist,

>>>>> but:

>>>>>

>>>>> 1. There is no legacy USB support "option" in my new Dell

computer's

>>>>> BIOS,

>>>>> but the "USB controller" option in BIOS is enabled, of course.

>>>>>

>>>>> 2. I've tried "usbmice" (with OCHI and UHCI drivers), and also

DUSE,

>>>>> but

>>>>> none of them work on my PC with a simple optical mouse. Does

>>>>> anybody

>>>>> know

>>>>> of any others?

>>>>>

>>>>> 3. If a driver doesn't exist that will work on this PC, would it

>>>>> instead

>>>>> be

>>>>> possible to add some I/O card (or a PS/2 card) and get a PS/2

mouse

>>>>> instead,

>>>>> or something along those lines, to allow for mouse support (in

these

>>>>> DOS

>>>>> boot disks, or other DOS apps)?

>>>>>

>>>>> Thanks, if anyone has any ideas!

>>>>>

>>>>> Bill

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

And thank you for posting that... I'm sure it will be appreciated by

others.

--

MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com

--

_________

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

<snip>

>>>>

>>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried them:

>>>>

>>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/

>>>

>>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two included

in

>>> that

>>> other zip I tried).

>>

>> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...

>> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)

>> but who knows if it would work in dos???

>

> That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were also

> available.

>

> Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because I did

see a

> Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with Win9x, XP,

etc, so

> presumably some drivers are also included if needed).

>

>> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine to

run dos

>> applications?

>

> I didn't! (except for a few occasions).

>

Well I just though of something that was maybe a bit too obvious...

but a standard serial mouse is sure to work in DOS if all else fails.

Although serial port cards are not rare, if your machine does not have

a

serial port...

have a look inside...as many newer motherboards do have serial port

headers...even if there is no port brought

out to the back of the case

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

philo wrote:

> <snip>

>

>>>>>

>>>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried them:

>>>>>

>>>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/

>>>>

>>>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two included

in

>>>> that other zip I tried).

>>>

>>> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...

>>> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)

>>> but who knows if it would work in dos???

>>

>> That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were also

>> available.

>>

>> Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because I did

see

>> a

>> Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with Win9x, XP,

etc,

>> so

>> presumably some drivers are also included if needed).

>>

>>> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine to

run

>>> dos

>>> applications?

>>

>> I didn't! (except for a few occasions).

>>

>

> Well I just though of something that was maybe a bit too obvious...

> but a standard serial mouse is sure to work in DOS if all else fails.

Fortunately that MS mouse.exe file worked.

> Although serial port cards are not rare, if your machine does not

have a

> serial port...

> have a look inside...as many newer motherboards do have serial port

> headers...even if there is no port brought out to the back of the

case

Just out of curiosity: I had read something to that effect before,

but

I'm not sure how one would use it, if one wanted to. What does that

really

mean - that there is a serial connector on the motherboard, or that

some

special adapter would have to be connected to that "port header"

(whatever

that is)?

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:16:35 -0600, "Bill in Co."

<not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial adapter

to

>plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI

I/O

>cards yet, so that's why the serial card)

That will only work if the mouse is bilingual. This is because the

PS/2 and RS232 serial interfaces are electrically dissimilar, and the

two mouse protocols are different.

>My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a

stretch

>for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,

>technically), but I'm not sure.

I'm still using a Mouse Systems serial optical mouse from the 1980s.

It works just fine in DOS with standard mouse drivers and behaves just

like any other serial mouse. However, I don't think this style of

mouse has been manufactured for at least 10 years. If you can still

buy one, please let me know.

- Franc Zabkar

--

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

Franc Zabkar wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:16:35 -0600, "Bill in Co."

> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>

>> Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial

adapter to

>> plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI

I/O

>> cards yet, so that's why the serial card)

>

> That will only work if the mouse is bilingual. This is because the

> PS/2 and RS232 serial interfaces are electrically dissimilar, and the

> two mouse protocols are different.

I have seen some PS/2 to serial (RS232, 9 pin) adapters on the net, but

they

look like simple connectors (just rewired for the different geometries,

of

course)

I had thought I had read the only (?) difference was the open collector

outputs in one of those (I can't recall whether it was PS/2, or RS232

(9

pin), but that everything else was about the same (and that PS/2

superceded

RS232, but was essentially the same, at least for a mouse). Not so?

But what does "bilingual" have to do with it?

>> My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a

>> stretch

>> for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,

>> technically), but I'm not sure.

>

> I'm still using a Mouse Systems serial optical mouse from the 1980s.

I didn't realize they had optical mice that long ago!

> It works just fine in DOS with standard mouse drivers and behaves

just

> like any other serial mouse. However, I don't think this style of

> mouse has been manufactured for at least 10 years. If you can still

> buy one, please let me know.

>

> - Franc Zabkar

> --

> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:31:39 -0600, "Bill in Co."

<not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>Franc Zabkar wrote:

>> On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:16:35 -0600, "Bill in Co."

>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>>

>>> Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial

adapter to

>>> plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI

I/O

>>> cards yet, so that's why the serial card)

>>

>> That will only work if the mouse is bilingual. This is because the

>> PS/2 and RS232 serial interfaces are electrically dissimilar, and

the

>> two mouse protocols are different.

>

>I have seen some PS/2 to serial (RS232, 9 pin) adapters on the net,

but they

>look like simple connectors (just rewired for the different

geometries, of

>course)

>

>I had thought I had read the only (?) difference was the open

collector

>outputs in one of those (I can't recall whether it was PS/2, or RS232

(9

>pin), but that everything else was about the same (and that PS/2

superceded

>RS232, but was essentially the same, at least for a mouse). Not so?

>But what does "bilingual" have to do with it?

PS/2 mice use +5V power whereas a serial mouse is signal powered.

RS232 uses +/-12V unidirectional signals whereas PS/2 uses 0-5V open

collector bidirectional TTL. PS/2 interfaces have separate data and

clock pins, whereas RS232 incorporates an asynchronous clock in the

data stream. The software protocols (ie communication languages) are

completely different which means that a combo mouse would have to

understand both, ie it would need to be bilingual. Furthermore its

electronics would need to be able to autodetect the two interface

types and automatically configure the mouse for one or the other.

See http://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/mouse_adapters.html

http://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/mouse.html

>>> My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a

>>> stretch

>>> for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot simpler,

>>> technically), but I'm not sure.

>>

>> I'm still using a Mouse Systems serial optical mouse from the 1980s.

>

>I didn't realize they had optical mice that long ago!

Sun Microsystems used them. They required a metal mouse pad.

>> It works just fine in DOS with standard mouse drivers and behaves

just

>> like any other serial mouse. However, I don't think this style of

>> mouse has been manufactured for at least 10 years. If you can still

>> buy one, please let me know.

>>

>> - Franc Zabkar

- Franc Zabkar

--

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:34:54 +1000, Franc Zabkar

<fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:31:39 -0600, "Bill in Co."

><not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>>I didn't realize they had optical mice that long ago!

>

>Sun Microsystems used them. They required a metal mouse pad.

FYI the mouse is covered by US patents 4546347 (October 8, 1985) and

4364035 (December 14, 1982).

http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm

- Franc Zabkar

--

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

Franc Zabkar wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:31:39 -0600, "Bill in Co."

> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>

>> Franc Zabkar wrote:

>>> On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:16:35 -0600, "Bill in Co."

>>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and

composed:

>>>

>>>> Actually, I'd probably get a PS/2 mouse, and a PS/2-to-Serial

adapter

>>>> to

>>>> plug into the Serial PCI card. (I haven't found any "PS/2" PCI

I/O

>>>> cards yet, so that's why the serial card)

>>>

>>> That will only work if the mouse is bilingual. This is because the

>>> PS/2 and RS232 serial interfaces are electrically dissimilar, and

the

>>> two mouse protocols are different.

>>

>> I have seen some PS/2 to serial (RS232, 9 pin) adapters on the net,

but

>> they

>> look like simple connectors (just rewired for the different

geometries,

>> of

>> course)

>>

>> I had thought I had read the only (?) difference was the open

collector

>> outputs in one of those (I can't recall whether it was PS/2, or

RS232 (9

>> pin), but that everything else was about the same (and that PS/2

>> superceded

>> RS232, but was essentially the same, at least for a mouse). Not

so?

>> But what does "bilingual" have to do with it?

>

> PS/2 mice use +5V power whereas a serial mouse is signal powered.

> RS232 uses +/-12V unidirectional signals whereas PS/2 uses 0-5V open

> collector bidirectional TTL. PS/2 interfaces have separate data and

> clock pins, whereas RS232 incorporates an asynchronous clock in the

> data stream.

OK, thanks for that info, Frank. All of that represents a

*significant*

difference.

So it appears that any PS/2 - Serial Adapters will *have* to have some

electronics inside, afterall, and are NOT just simply rewired,

afterall.

> The software protocols (ie communication languages) are

> completely different which means that a combo mouse would have to

> understand both, ie it would need to be bilingual.

Oh, ok, now I get it. Thanks. (didn't get the bilingual

reference)

More below.

> Furthermore its

> electronics would need to be able to autodetect the two interface

> types and automatically configure the mouse for one or the other.

>

> See http://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/mouse_adapters.html

> http://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/mouse.html

>

>>>> My guess is also that a serial *optical* mouse might be a bit of a

>>>> stretch

>>>> for working out ok in DOS (since a standard mouse is a lot

simpler,

>>>> technically), but I'm not sure.

>>>

>>> I'm still using a Mouse Systems serial optical mouse from the

1980s.

>>

>> I didn't realize they had optical mice that long ago!

>

> Sun Microsystems used them. They required a metal mouse pad.

>

>>> It works just fine in DOS with standard mouse drivers and behaves

just

>>> like any other serial mouse. However, I don't think this style of

>>> mouse has been manufactured for at least 10 years. If you can still

>>> buy one, please let me know.

You're looking for a serial mouse? (but not bilingual)? I thought I

had

seen some serial mice available when I looked on amazon.com. But

they

might have just been the old, non-optical kind - although I thought I

had

seen a somewhat pricey one, too (that was optical) which had a serial

interface, but I can't recall now.

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:uSXh$FanIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> philo wrote:

> > <snip>

> >

> >>>>>

> >>>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried them:

> >>>>>

> >>>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/

> >>>>

> >>>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two

included in

> >>>> that other zip I tried).

> >>>

> >>> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...

> >>> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)

> >>> but who knows if it would work in dos???

> >>

> >> That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were

also

> >> available.

> >>

> >> Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because I

did

see

> >> a

> >> Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with Win9x, XP,

etc,

> >> so

> >> presumably some drivers are also included if needed).

> >>

> >>> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine to

run

> >>> dos

> >>> applications?

> >>

> >> I didn't! (except for a few occasions).

> >>

> >

> > Well I just though of something that was maybe a bit too obvious...

> > but a standard serial mouse is sure to work in DOS if all else

fails.

>

> Fortunately that MS mouse.exe file worked.

>

> > Although serial port cards are not rare, if your machine does not

have a

> > serial port...

> > have a look inside...as many newer motherboards do have serial

port

> > headers...even if there is no port brought out to the back of the

case

>

> Just out of curiosity: I had read something to that effect before,

but

> I'm not sure how one would use it, if one wanted to. What does that

really

> mean - that there is a serial connector on the motherboard, or that

some

> special adapter would have to be connected to that "port header"

(whatever

> that is)?

>

Congratulations on finally getting it going!

Here's the deal:

Most new machines no longer bother with using a serial or parallel

port.

However...quite a few new motherboards do in-fact have serial

capabilities.

The board not only has a serial UART chip.

(Universal asynchronous receiver/ transmitter you can tell your

friends)

It has the headers (or pins) on the motherboards for actually hooking

up a

serial connector.

The manufacturer simply did not supply the connector on the back of the

case.

So...if you need a serial port and if the motherboard actually has the

serial headers on it...

it's just a simple matter of plugging in the data wires and mounting

the

port on the back of the case

or in an vacant slot. It would add about 20 cents to the cost of the

machine...

but it's often just not added.

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

philo wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:uSXh$FanIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> philo wrote:

>>> <snip>

>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried them:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two

included in

>>>>>> that other zip I tried).

>>>>>

>>>>> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...

>>>>> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)

>>>>> but who knows if it would work in dos???

>>>>

>>>> That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were

also

>>>> available.

>>>>

>>>> Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because I

did

>>>> see

>>>> a Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with Win9x,

XP,

>>>> etc,

>>>> so presumably some drivers are also included if needed).

>>>>

>>>>> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine to

run

>>>>> dos applications?

>>>>

>>>> I didn't! (except for a few occasions).

>>>>

>>>

>>> Well I just though of something that was maybe a bit too obvious...

>>> but a standard serial mouse is sure to work in DOS if all else

fails.

>>

>> Fortunately that MS mouse.exe file worked.

>>

>>> Although serial port cards are not rare, if your machine does not

have a

>>> serial port...

>>> have a look inside...as many newer motherboards do have serial

port

>>> headers...even if there is no port brought out to the back of the

case

>>

>> Just out of curiosity: I had read something to that effect

before, but

>> I'm not sure how one would use it, if one wanted to. What does

that

>> really

>> mean - that there is a serial connector on the motherboard, or that

some

>> special adapter would have to be connected to that "port header"

>> (whatever

>> that is)?

>>

>

> Congratulations on finally getting it going!

Yeah, thanks, and it really made my day, although I felt a bit dumb for

not

having tried mouse.exe it in the first place.

AND then trying those other (primarily Mass Storage) USB DOS drivers,

w/o

anything specifically related to a mouse.

> Here's the deal:

>

> Most new machines no longer bother with using a serial or parallel

port.

Right, I know that too.

> However...quite a few new motherboards do in-fact have serial

> capabilities.

> The board not only has a serial UART chip.

> (Universal asynchronous receiver/ transmitter you can tell your

friends)

(know that too :-)

> It has the headers (or pins) on the motherboards for actually hooking

up a

> serial connector.

Oh, ok, that's what it means. Just the pins protuding up from the

MB.

And 9 pins, I expect?

> The manufacturer simply did not supply the connector on the back of

the

> case.

>

> So...if you need a serial port and if the motherboard actually has

the

> serial headers on it...

> it's just a simple matter of plugging in the data wires and mounting

the

> port on the back of the case

> or in an vacant slot. It would add about 20 cents to the cost of the

> machine... but it's often just not added.

Actually, it doesn't sound too simple do the mechanics of it!

Electrically it's simple, but finding the rest of it might be a pain!

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:%23ZfH8fbnIHA.4664@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> philo wrote:

> > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> > news:uSXh$FanIHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> >> philo wrote:

> >>> <snip>

> >>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> There are some drivers listed here but I have not tried them:

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> http://www.stefan2000.com/darkehorse/PC/DOS/Drivers/USB/

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Thanks again, already had tried those (those were the two

included

in

> >>>>>> that other zip I tried).

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Well if you cannot get any USB drivers for DOS...

> >>>>> I did see a PCI card at Newegg that has ps/2 ports (and USB)

> >>>>> but who knows if it would work in dos???

> >>>>

> >>>> That is interesting. I didn't know PS/2 I/O PCI cards were

also

> >>>> available.

> >>>>

> >>>> Sometimes it says (if the specs are complete enough!), because I

did

> >>>> see

> >>>> a Serial Port PCI I/O card stating that (DOS, along with Win9x,

XP,

> >>>> etc,

> >>>> so presumably some drivers are also included if needed).

> >>>>

> >>>>> Just out of curiosity I wonder why you purchased a new machine

to

run

> >>>>> dos applications?

> >>>>

> >>>> I didn't! (except for a few occasions).

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>> Well I just though of something that was maybe a bit too

obvious...

> >>> but a standard serial mouse is sure to work in DOS if all else

fails.

> >>

> >> Fortunately that MS mouse.exe file worked.

> >>

> >>> Although serial port cards are not rare, if your machine does not

have

a

> >>> serial port...

> >>> have a look inside...as many newer motherboards do have serial

port

> >>> headers...even if there is no port brought out to the back of the

case

> >>

> >> Just out of curiosity: I had read something to that effect

before,

but

> >> I'm not sure how one would use it, if one wanted to. What does

that

> >> really

> >> mean - that there is a serial connector on the motherboard, or

that

some

> >> special adapter would have to be connected to that "port header"

> >> (whatever

> >> that is)?

> >>

> >

> > Congratulations on finally getting it going!

>

> Yeah, thanks, and it really made my day, although I felt a bit dumb

for

not

> having tried mouse.exe it in the first place.

>

> AND then trying those other (primarily Mass Storage) USB DOS drivers,

w/o

> anything specifically related to a mouse.

>

> > Here's the deal:

> >

> > Most new machines no longer bother with using a serial or parallel

port.

>

> Right, I know that too.

>

> > However...quite a few new motherboards do in-fact have serial

> > capabilities.

> > The board not only has a serial UART chip.

> > (Universal asynchronous receiver/ transmitter you can tell your

friends)

>

> (know that too :-)

>

> > It has the headers (or pins) on the motherboards for actually

hooking up

a

> > serial connector.

>

> Oh, ok, that's what it means. Just the pins protuding up from the

MB.

> And 9 pins, I expect?

>

> > The manufacturer simply did not supply the connector on the back of

the

> > case.

> >

> > So...if you need a serial port and if the motherboard actually has

the

> > serial headers on it...

> > it's just a simple matter of plugging in the data wires and

mounting the

> > port on the back of the case

> > or in an vacant slot. It would add about 20 cents to the cost of

the

> > machine... but it's often just not added.

>

> Actually, it doesn't sound too simple do the mechanics of it!

> Electrically it's simple, but finding the rest of it might be a pain!

>

It's just a 9 pin head

4 on one side and 5 on the other.

Serial ports can be purchased with the cable and plug already

attached...

and since the plug is generally keyed...can only go in one way.

It's as simple as just plugging it in and mounting the port.

It only takes a few seconds to do and it does not take any skill

The only important thing is verifying there there is in-fact a header

and finding the location.

A motherboard manual is helpful and would be avail on the mfg's

website.

otherwise a good light and some reading glasses may be in order...

it would probably have a label such as Com1

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 13, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:27:47 -0600, "Bill in Co."

<not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>So it appears that any PS/2 - Serial Adapters will *have* to have some

>electronics inside, afterall, and are NOT just simply rewired,

afterall.

No, AIUI the combo mouse has all the electronics for both interfaces

and protocols whereas a PS/2 mouse is PS/2 only and a serial mouse is

serial only.

See http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MousePs2Serial_pinout.shtml

and http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MouseSerialPs2_pinout.shtml

- Franc Zabkar

--

Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

--

Posted via http://computerhelpforums.net Forum to USENET Gateway

April 14, 2008

Re: Any USB DOS mouse drivers (useful for some boot disks, etc)?

Franc Zabkar wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:27:47 -0600, "Bill in Co."

> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>

>> So it appears that any PS/2 - Serial Adapters will *have* to have

some

>> electronics inside, afterall, and are NOT just simply rewired,

afterall.

>

> No, AIUI the combo mouse has all the electronics for both interfaces

> and protocols whereas a PS/2 mouse is PS/2 only and a serial mouse is

> serial only.

>

> See http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MousePs2Serial_pinout.shtml

> and http://pinouts.ru/InputCables/MouseSerialPs2_pinout.shtml

AIUI? (don't know that one)

But Franc, I have also seen advertised some basic PS/2 to Serial (or

vice

versa) plug adapters (no mice included). They just look like

connectors,

with a very short cable (or even non-existent cable, just molded into

one

assembly), at least as I recall.

--

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