Guest Bill in Co. Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land PCR wrote: > Bill in Co. wrote: >> PCR wrote: >>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>> PCR wrote: >>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: > > ...snip >>> Watch out for falling construction cranes in Manhattan! I won't say >>> where I am-- but I root for the Yankees! But don't go near that new >>> stadium until the cranes are gone! >> >> LOL. >> I also remember some nice trips to Coney Island, and riding the good >> ole Cyclone. However, I have to say, that area was a tad bit seedy. >> But still, the rides were fun! > > I was there a few times. You are correct about all that, except that > area & lots of others are being rebuilt or there are plans to rebuild > them with those killer cranes. Stay away from there for a while too. You mean you can't go down there anymore for the rides?? Did they close Coney Island off to visitors? Maybe they're cleaning up the place? LOL, seems hard to imagine that. :-) I mean, somebody has got to sell those T-shirts down there! > ...snip >> WHAT IE7??? I don't have IE7 on here! (at least not yet, and >> maybe never :-) >> I'm still using IE6, thank you. :-) > > I should have known! I guess I was figuring XP came with IE7! Nope. > ...snip >>> OK. But with all your 250 GB you should be able to have a clone >>> around too. Wouldn't that be easier to access than an Image? Or do >>> you already have it in an enclosure? That's right, I think you do-- >>> OK, then. Good. >> >> I have two USB, external, HD enclosures (with IDE, PATA, hard drives >> inside of them); one with a 80 GB hard drive inside, and the other >> with a 40 GB drive hard drive inside (both removeable, or >> replaceable, as needed) > > So, you have a BING copy of your system on one of those as well as a > True Image image of it somewhere? That's ultra-safe! Very good. I only have BING on the floppy or flash drive, and use it in Maintenance Mode (this again almost exclusively for the Win98SE computer). Why install it on the HD? (unless I did it once to create the floppy - can't recall now). Whenever I use it to do some partition operation (which isn't all that often now), I always boot up on the floppy or the flash disk. Maybe I've missed something that I really need for it to be installed and run on the HD, but I don't know what it is. (Keep in mind I also have Acronis True Image AND Norton Partition Magic for the new computer, which is what I normally use). >>>> (Well, good, I got this one off too before I take a short trip >>>> shortly). >>> >>> Enjoy. I'll be here. >> >> OK. :-) > > :-).
Guest PCR Posted June 11, 2008 Posted June 11, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land Bill in Co. wrote: | PCR wrote: ....snip |>> LOL. |>> I also remember some nice trips to Coney Island, and riding the good |>> ole Cyclone. However, I have to say, that area was a tad bit |>> seedy. But still, the rides were fun! |> |> I was there a few times. You are correct about all that, except that |> area & lots of others are being rebuilt or there are plans to rebuild |> them with those killer cranes. Stay away from there for a while too. | | You mean you can't go down there anymore for the rides?? Did they | close Coney Island off to visitors? Maybe they're cleaning up the | place? | LOL, seems hard to imagine that. :-) I mean, somebody has got | to sell those T-shirts down there! I'm sure some of it is still functioning, but I never was there much & certainly not recently. Oh, there were recent newspaper stories of lawsuits over the Cyclone. That's right-- it can break your neck & back even without falling cranes! Coney Island used to be much bigger with competing parks, or so I've seen in the documentaries. Now, all kinds of construction is either going on or planned to go on, but they may end up with more residential dwelling than amusement park. |> ...snip |>> WHAT IE7??? I don't have IE7 on here! (at least not yet, and |>> maybe never :-) |>> I'm still using IE6, thank you. :-) |> |> I should have known! I guess I was figuring XP came with IE7! | | Nope. OK. |> ...snip |>>> OK. But with all your 250 GB you should be able to have a clone |>>> around too. Wouldn't that be easier to access than an Image? Or do |>>> you already have it in an enclosure? That's right, I think you do-- |>>> OK, then. Good. |>> |>> I have two USB, external, HD enclosures (with IDE, PATA, hard drives |>> inside of them); one with a 80 GB hard drive inside, and the other |>> with a 40 GB drive hard drive inside (both removeable, or |>> replaceable, as needed) |> |> So, you have a BING copy of your system on one of those as well as a |> True Image image of it somewhere? That's ultra-safe! Very good. | | I only have BING on the floppy or flash drive, and use it in | Maintenance Mode (this again almost exclusively for the Win98SE | computer). Why install it on the HD? (unless I did it once to | create the floppy - can't recall now). I've only used it the way you have. No, it doesn't need to be installed to create the floppy. You take & unpack the download & click BOOTITNG.EXE to create the Maintenance Floppy. After booting the floppy, you are given the choice to install it to the hard drive. Click CANCEL & you are in Maintenance Mode running off the floppy. The main reason to install it would be to multiboot. You might consider that, if you think Win98 could possibly run on the new machine. | Whenever I use it to do some partition operation (which isn't all | that often now), I always boot up on the floppy or the flash disk. Right. Me too. Some day I should install so that I might boot my clone on D:partition, though-- but it would only be for fun. | Maybe I've missed something that I really need for it to be installed | and run on the HD, but I don't know what it is. (Keep in mind I | also have Acronis True Image AND Norton Partition Magic for the new | computer, which is what I normally use). It sounds like you've got everything you need, except if you should ever want to multiboot. BING does that as well as partitioning & backing up. |>>>> (Well, good, I got this one off too before I take a short trip |>>>> shortly). |>>> |>>> Enjoy. I'll be here. |>> |>> OK. :-) |> |> :-). -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR pcrrcp@netzero.net
Guest Bill in Co. Posted June 11, 2008 Posted June 11, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land PCR wrote: > Bill in Co. wrote: >> PCR wrote: > > ...snip >>>> LOL. >>>> I also remember some nice trips to Coney Island, and riding the good >>>> ole Cyclone. However, I have to say, that area was a tad bit >>>> seedy. But still, the rides were fun! >>> >>> I was there a few times. You are correct about all that, except that >>> area & lots of others are being rebuilt or there are plans to rebuild >>> them with those killer cranes. Stay away from there for a while too. >> >> You mean you can't go down there anymore for the rides?? Did they >> close Coney Island off to visitors? Maybe they're cleaning up the >> place? >> LOL, seems hard to imagine that. :-) I mean, somebody has got >> to sell those T-shirts down there! > > I'm sure some of it is still functioning, but I never was there much & > certainly not recently. Oh, there were recent newspaper stories of > lawsuits over the Cyclone. Oh boy. The "suing" generation..... (Yet another) sign of the new age times.. > That's right-- it can break your neck & back > even without falling cranes! Coney Island used to be much bigger with > competing parks, or so I've seen in the documentaries. Now, all kinds of > construction is either going on or planned to go on, but they may end up > with more residential dwelling than amusement park. Wow. I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing, though. >>> ...snip >>>> WHAT IE7??? I don't have IE7 on here! (at least not yet, and >>>> maybe never :-) >>>> I'm still using IE6, thank you. :-) >>> >>> I should have known! I guess I was figuring XP came with IE7! >> >> Nope. > > OK. > >>> ...snip >>>>> OK. But with all your 250 GB you should be able to have a clone >>>>> around too. Wouldn't that be easier to access than an Image? Or do >>>>> you already have it in an enclosure? That's right, I think you do-- >>>>> OK, then. Good. >>>> >>>> I have two USB, external, HD enclosures (with IDE, PATA, hard drives >>>> inside of them); one with a 80 GB hard drive inside, and the other >>>> with a 40 GB drive hard drive inside (both removeable, or >>>> replaceable, as needed) >>> >>> So, you have a BING copy of your system on one of those as well as a >>> True Image image of it somewhere? That's ultra-safe! Very good. >> >> I only have BING on the floppy or flash drive, and use it in >> Maintenance Mode (this again almost exclusively for the Win98SE >> computer). Why install it on the HD? (unless I did it once to >> create the floppy - can't recall now). > > I've only used it the way you have. No, it doesn't need to be installed > to create the floppy. You take & unpack the download & click > BOOTITNG.EXE to create the Maintenance Floppy. After booting the floppy, > you are given the choice to install it to the hard drive. Click CANCEL & > you are in Maintenance Mode running off the floppy. The main reason to > install it would be to multiboot. Yeah, ok. Haven't had a need for that. > You might consider that, if you think Win98 could possibly run on the new > machine. Perhaps someday, but so far, I don't need to. One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which allegedly allows you to run Win98SE (or some other operating systems) virtually (i.e., running under the auspices of WinXP in a window, as I understand it), but I have never tried it, and don't know much about it. Some people seem to recommend that approach, however - maybe its considered less invasive, and (I guess) you wouldn't need a boot manager - you'd simply choose to run it when you wanted after booting up into XP (at least as I understand it). >> Whenever I use it to do some partition operation (which isn't all >> that often now), I always boot up on the floppy or the flash disk. > > Right. Me too. Some day I should install so that I might boot my clone > on D:partition, though-- but it would only be for fun. I don't know if you can do this, but if you can use a Flash drive, it sure beats the hell out of using a floppy. Not sure how well that will work in a 98SE computer, with its limited USB support, especially at the BIOS level - I think you'd need the BIOS capability to be able to boot up to a USB Flash drive to be able to do this (just like you do with a floppy). >> Maybe I've missed something that I really need for it to be installed >> and run on the HD, but I don't know what it is. (Keep in mind I >> also have Acronis True Image AND Norton Partition Magic for the new >> computer, which is what I normally use). > > It sounds like you've got everything you need, except if you should ever > want to multiboot. BING does that as well as partitioning & backing up. I see. And there are various other boot managers out there, or so I've heard. >>>>>> (Well, good, I got this one off too before I take a short trip >>>>>> shortly). >>>>> >>>>> Enjoy. I'll be here. >>>> >>>> OK. :-) >>> >>> :-).
Guest PCR Posted June 12, 2008 Posted June 12, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land Bill in Co. wrote: | PCR wrote: |> Bill in Co. wrote: |>> PCR wrote: |> |> ...snip |>>>> LOL. |>>>> I also remember some nice trips to Coney Island, and riding the |>>>> good ole Cyclone. However, I have to say, that area was a tad |>>>> bit seedy. But still, the rides were fun! |>>> |>>> I was there a few times. You are correct about all that, except |>>> that area & lots of others are being rebuilt or there are plans to |>>> rebuild them with those killer cranes. Stay away from there for a |>>> while too. |>> |>> You mean you can't go down there anymore for the rides?? Did they |>> close Coney Island off to visitors? Maybe they're cleaning up the |>> place? |>> LOL, seems hard to imagine that. :-) I mean, somebody has got |>> to sell those T-shirts down there! |> |> I'm sure some of it is still functioning, but I never was there much |> & certainly not recently. Oh, there were recent newspaper stories of |> lawsuits over the Cyclone. | | Oh boy. The "suing" generation..... (Yet another) sign of the | new age times.. I hate it when the city gets sued-- as if the taxpayer is at fault! I would rather see some city employee or official who hired him personally fired or sued! Or, sue for a policy change-- but not for my taxpayer money! |> That's right-- it can break your neck & back |> even without falling cranes! Coney Island used to be much bigger with |> competing parks, or so I've seen in the documentaries. Now, all |> kinds of construction is either going on or planned to go on, but |> they may end up with more residential dwelling than amusement park. | | Wow. I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing, though. I don't know. ....snip |>> I only have BING on the floppy or flash drive, and use it in |>> Maintenance Mode (this again almost exclusively for the Win98SE |>> computer). Why install it on the HD? (unless I did it once to |>> create the floppy - can't recall now). |> |> I've only used it the way you have. No, it doesn't need to be |> installed to create the floppy. You take & unpack the download & |> click BOOTITNG.EXE to create the Maintenance Floppy. After booting |> the floppy, you are given the choice to install it to the hard |> drive. Click CANCEL & you are in Maintenance Mode running off the |> floppy. The main reason to install it would be to multiboot. | | Yeah, ok. Haven't had a need for that. | |> You might consider that, if you think Win98 could possibly run on |> the new machine. | | Perhaps someday, but so far, I don't need to. | | One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which allegedly allows | you to run Win98SE (or some other operating systems) virtually (i.e., | running under the auspices of WinXP in a window, as I understand it), | but I have never tried it, and don't know much about it. Some people | seem to recommend that approach, however - maybe its considered less | invasive, and (I guess) you wouldn't need a boot manager - you'd | simply choose to run it when you wanted after booting up into XP (at | least as I understand it). It sounds like a viable alternative-- but can it really be the same? |>> Whenever I use it to do some partition operation (which isn't all |>> that often now), I always boot up on the floppy or the flash disk. |> |> Right. Me too. Some day I should install so that I might boot my |> clone on D:partition, though-- but it would only be for fun. | | I don't know if you can do this, but if you can use a Flash drive, it | sure beats the hell out of using a floppy. Not sure how well that | will work in a 98SE computer, with its limited USB support, | especially at the BIOS | level - I think you'd need the BIOS capability to be able to boot up | to a USB Flash drive to be able to do this (just like you do with a | floppy). I don't really know. I believe I've read over at the Terabyte site that is possible to boot off a flash drive or some of them. I'm content with my floppy & CD-ROM. |>> Maybe I've missed something that I really need for it to be |>> installed and run on the HD, but I don't know what it is. (Keep |>> in mind I also have Acronis True Image AND Norton Partition Magic |>> for the new computer, which is what I normally use). |> |> It sounds like you've got everything you need, except if you should |> ever want to multiboot. BING does that as well as partitioning & |> backing up. | | I see. And there are various other boot managers out there, or so | I've heard. Yea. Even WinXP I think is supposed to be one. ....snip -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR pcrrcp@netzero.net
Guest Bill in Co. Posted June 12, 2008 Posted June 12, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land PCR wrote: > Bill in Co. wrote: >> PCR wrote: >>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>> PCR wrote: >>> >>> ...snip >>>>>> LOL. >>>>>> I also remember some nice trips to Coney Island, and riding the >>>>>> good ole Cyclone. However, I have to say, that area was a tad >>>>>> bit seedy. But still, the rides were fun! >>>>> >>>>> I was there a few times. You are correct about all that, except >>>>> that area & lots of others are being rebuilt or there are plans to >>>>> rebuild them with those killer cranes. Stay away from there for a >>>>> while too. >>>> >>>> You mean you can't go down there anymore for the rides?? Did they >>>> close Coney Island off to visitors? Maybe they're cleaning up the >>>> place? >>>> LOL, seems hard to imagine that. :-) I mean, somebody has got >>>> to sell those T-shirts down there! >>> >>> I'm sure some of it is still functioning, but I never was there much >>> & certainly not recently. Oh, there were recent newspaper stories of >>> lawsuits over the Cyclone. >> >> Oh boy. The "suing" generation..... (Yet another) sign of the >> new age times.. > > I hate it when the city gets sued-- as if the taxpayer is at fault! I > would rather see some city employee or official who hired him personally > fired or sued! Or, sue for a policy change-- but not for my taxpayer > money! > >>> That's right-- it can break your neck & back >>> even without falling cranes! Coney Island used to be much bigger with >>> competing parks, or so I've seen in the documentaries. Now, all >>> kinds of construction is either going on or planned to go on, but >>> they may end up with more residential dwelling than amusement park. >> >> Wow. I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing, though. > > I don't know. > > ...snip >>>> I only have BING on the floppy or flash drive, and use it in >>>> Maintenance Mode (this again almost exclusively for the Win98SE >>>> computer). Why install it on the HD? (unless I did it once to >>>> create the floppy - can't recall now). >>> >>> I've only used it the way you have. No, it doesn't need to be >>> installed to create the floppy. You take & unpack the download & >>> click BOOTITNG.EXE to create the Maintenance Floppy. After booting >>> the floppy, you are given the choice to install it to the hard >>> drive. Click CANCEL & you are in Maintenance Mode running off the >>> floppy. The main reason to install it would be to multiboot. >> >> Yeah, ok. Haven't had a need for that. >> >>> You might consider that, if you think Win98 could possibly run on >>> the new machine. >> >> Perhaps someday, but so far, I don't need to. >> >> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which allegedly allows >> you to run Win98SE (or some other operating systems) virtually (i.e., >> running under the auspices of WinXP in a window, as I understand it), >> but I have never tried it, and don't know much about it. Some people >> seem to recommend that approach, however - maybe its considered less >> invasive, and (I guess) you wouldn't need a boot manager - you'd >> simply choose to run it when you wanted after booting up into XP (at >> least as I understand it). > > It sounds like a viable alternative-- but can it really be the same? I don't know. Never tried it. I expect there must be SOME differences, however. >>>> Whenever I use it to do some partition operation (which isn't all >>>> that often now), I always boot up on the floppy or the flash disk. >>> >>> Right. Me too. Some day I should install so that I might boot my >>> clone on D:partition, though-- but it would only be for fun. >> >> I don't know if you can do this, but if you can use a Flash drive, it >> sure beats the hell out of using a floppy. Not sure how well that >> will work in a 98SE computer, with its limited USB support, >> especially at the BIOS >> level - I think you'd need the BIOS capability to be able to boot up >> to a USB Flash drive to be able to do this (just like you do with a >> floppy). > > I don't really know. I believe I've read over at the Terabyte site that > is possible to boot off a flash drive or some of them. That might be worth checking into. > I'm content with my floppy & CD-ROM. Once you use a Flash Drive, you get spoiled - fast. It's near instantaneous, and it's nothing like having to use (or burn) a CD or DVD each time you make a change! >>>> Maybe I've missed something that I really need for it to be >>>> installed and run on the HD, but I don't know what it is. (Keep >>>> in mind I also have Acronis True Image AND Norton Partition Magic >>>> for the new computer, which is what I normally use). >>> >>> It sounds like you've got everything you need, except if you should >>> ever want to multiboot. BING does that as well as partitioning & >>> backing up. >> >> I see. And there are various other boot managers out there, or so >> I've heard. > > Yea. Even WinXP I think is supposed to be one. I think so, but haven't looked into it. > > ...snip > -- > Thanks or Good Luck, > There may be humor in this post, and, > Naturally, you will not sue, > Should things get worse after this, > PCR > pcrrcp@netzero.net
Guest PCR Posted June 13, 2008 Posted June 13, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land Bill in Co. wrote: | PCR wrote: |> Bill in Co. wrote: ....snip |>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which allegedly allows |>> you to run Win98SE (or some other operating systems) virtually |>> (i.e., running under the auspices of WinXP in a window, as I |>> understand it), but I have never tried it, and don't know much |>> about it. Some people seem to recommend that approach, however - |>> maybe its considered less invasive, and (I guess) you wouldn't need |>> a boot manager - you'd simply choose to run it when you wanted |>> after booting up into XP (at least as I understand it). |> |> It sounds like a viable alternative-- but can it really be the same? | | I don't know. Never tried it. I expect there must be SOME | differences, however. I see a recent thread about it. Looks like it will be hard to see system settings. even the FAT32 you see in System Information-- may not be a FAT32! Sheesh! |>>>> Whenever I use it to do some partition operation (which isn't all |>>>> that often now), I always boot up on the floppy or the flash disk. |>>> |>>> Right. Me too. Some day I should install so that I might boot my |>>> clone on D:partition, though-- but it would only be for fun. |>> |>> I don't know if you can do this, but if you can use a Flash drive, |>> it sure beats the hell out of using a floppy. Not sure how well |>> that will work in a 98SE computer, with its limited USB support, |>> especially at the BIOS |>> level - I think you'd need the BIOS capability to be able to boot up |>> to a USB Flash drive to be able to do this (just like you do with a |>> floppy). |> |> I don't really know. I believe I've read over at the Terabyte site |> that is possible to boot off a flash drive or some of them. | | That might be worth checking into. | |> I'm content with my floppy & CD-ROM. | | Once you use a Flash Drive, you get spoiled - fast. It's near | instantaneous, and it's nothing like having to use (or burn) a CD or | DVD each time you make a change! Yea. I might. But right now I do have everything backed up to a 2nd hard drive, which probably is sufficient. |>>>> Maybe I've missed something that I really need for it to be |>>>> installed and run on the HD, but I don't know what it is. (Keep |>>>> in mind I also have Acronis True Image AND Norton Partition Magic |>>>> for the new computer, which is what I normally use). |>>> |>>> It sounds like you've got everything you need, except if you should |>>> ever want to multiboot. BING does that as well as partitioning & |>>> backing up. |>> |>> I see. And there are various other boot managers out there, or so |>> I've heard. |> |> Yea. Even WinXP I think is supposed to be one. | | I think so, but haven't looked into it. Win98 might not function on your new machine or with its peripherals. You might have to limit RAM too, if you've got over 500 MB (or is that 1 GB?). -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR pcrrcp@netzero.net
Guest Bill in Co. Posted June 13, 2008 Posted June 13, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land PCR wrote: > Bill in Co. wrote: >> PCR wrote: >>> Bill in Co. wrote: > > ...snip >>>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which allegedly allows >>>> you to run Win98SE (or some other operating systems) virtually >>>> (i.e., running under the auspices of WinXP in a window, as I >>>> understand it), but I have never tried it, and don't know much >>>> about it. Some people seem to recommend that approach, however - >>>> maybe its considered less invasive, and (I guess) you wouldn't need >>>> a boot manager - you'd simply choose to run it when you wanted >>>> after booting up into XP (at least as I understand it). >>> >>> It sounds like a viable alternative-- but can it really be the same? >> >> I don't know. Never tried it. I expect there must be SOME >> differences, however. > > I see a recent thread about it. Looks like it will be hard to see system > settings. even the FAT32 you see in System Information-- may not be a > FAT32! Sheesh! May not be. (Don't know). >>>>>> Whenever I use it to do some partition operation (which isn't all >>>>>> that often now), I always boot up on the floppy or the flash disk. >>>>> >>>>> Right. Me too. Some day I should install so that I might boot my >>>>> clone on D:partition, though-- but it would only be for fun. >>>> >>>> I don't know if you can do this, but if you can use a Flash drive, >>>> it sure beats the hell out of using a floppy. Not sure how well >>>> that will work in a 98SE computer, with its limited USB support, >>>> especially at the BIOS >>>> level - I think you'd need the BIOS capability to be able to boot up >>>> to a USB Flash drive to be able to do this (just like you do with a >>>> floppy). >>> >>> I don't really know. I believe I've read over at the Terabyte site >>> that is possible to boot off a flash drive or some of them. >> >> That might be worth checking into. >> >>> I'm content with my floppy & CD-ROM. >> >> Once you use a Flash Drive, you get spoiled - fast. It's near >> instantaneous, and it's nothing like having to use (or burn) a CD or >> DVD each time you make a change! > > Yea. I might. But right now I do have everything backed up to a 2nd hard > drive, which probably is sufficient. But I was talking about booting up on a flash "disk" (say like for BING), instead of a floppy. It is SO MUCH nicer and FASTER (the flash drive is about as small as a book of matches, and just plugs into any USB port, and I have 4 of those on the front of my computer). I even made a "Flash DOS" "disk"! (boots up into real DOS). Keep in mind these flash drives are (typically) 1 *GB* (or more) in size - and that is a LOT of space. And they only cost around 10 dollars, or so. Whereas a floppy is about 1.4 *MB*, and it is SLOW, SLOW, SLOW, and SLOW. And those stupid things eventually get disk errors. >>>>>> Maybe I've missed something that I really need for it to be >>>>>> installed and run on the HD, but I don't know what it is. (Keep >>>>>> in mind I also have Acronis True Image AND Norton Partition Magic >>>>>> for the new computer, which is what I normally use). >>>>> >>>>> It sounds like you've got everything you need, except if you should >>>>> ever want to multiboot. BING does that as well as partitioning & >>>>> backing up. >>>> >>>> I see. And there are various other boot managers out there, or so >>>> I've heard. >>> >>> Yea. Even WinXP I think is supposed to be one. >> >> I think so, but haven't looked into it. > > Win98 might not function on your new machine or with its peripherals. It likely would IF I had all the drivers it needs for my new hardware (and there probably would be a few issues there), unless I ran it in or under VPC (Virtual PC). Haven't had the need or desire yet. > You might have to limit RAM too, if you've got over 500 MB (or is that 1 > GB?). I have 1 GB of RAM. IF I ran VPC (Virtual PC) to use it, I'd set aside half of that RAM to run W98SE, but, again, I haven't had any need or desire to do any of this yet. XP is working out just fine. :-) > > -- > Thanks or Good Luck, > There may be humor in this post, and, > Naturally, you will not sue, > Should things get worse after this, > PCR > pcrrcp@netzero.net
Guest PCR Posted June 13, 2008 Posted June 13, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land Bill in Co. wrote: | PCR wrote: |> Bill in Co. wrote: |>> PCR wrote: |>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |> |> ...snip |>>>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which allegedly |>>>> allows you to run Win98SE (or some other operating systems) |>>>> virtually (i.e., running under the auspices of WinXP in a window, |>>>> as I understand it), but I have never tried it, and don't know |>>>> much about it. Some people seem to recommend that approach, |>>>> however - maybe its considered less invasive, and (I guess) you |>>>> wouldn't need a boot manager - you'd simply choose to run it when |>>>> you wanted after booting up into XP (at least as I understand it). |>>> |>>> It sounds like a viable alternative-- but can it really be the |>>> same? |>> |>> I don't know. Never tried it. I expect there must be SOME |>> differences, however. |> |> I see a recent thread about it. Looks like it will be hard to see |> system settings. even the FAT32 you see in System Information-- may |> not be a FAT32! Sheesh! | | May not be. (Don't know). I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd never be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk & defrag-- I don't think! Probably, lots of system settings would look weird-- if you could even find them! |>>>>>> Whenever I use it to do some partition operation (which isn't |>>>>>> all that often now), I always boot up on the floppy or the |>>>>>> flash disk. |>>>>> |>>>>> Right. Me too. Some day I should install so that I might boot my |>>>>> clone on D:partition, though-- but it would only be for fun. |>>>> |>>>> I don't know if you can do this, but if you can use a Flash drive, |>>>> it sure beats the hell out of using a floppy. Not sure how well |>>>> that will work in a 98SE computer, with its limited USB support, |>>>> especially at the BIOS |>>>> level - I think you'd need the BIOS capability to be able to boot |>>>> up to a USB Flash drive to be able to do this (just like you do |>>>> with a floppy). |>>> |>>> I don't really know. I believe I've read over at the Terabyte site |>>> that is possible to boot off a flash drive or some of them. |>> |>> That might be worth checking into. |>> |>>> I'm content with my floppy & CD-ROM. |>> |>> Once you use a Flash Drive, you get spoiled - fast. It's near |>> instantaneous, and it's nothing like having to use (or burn) a CD or |>> DVD each time you make a change! |> |> Yea. I might. But right now I do have everything backed up to a 2nd |> hard drive, which probably is sufficient. | | But I was talking about booting up on a flash "disk" (say like for | BING), instead of a floppy. It is SO MUCH nicer and FASTER (the | flash drive is about as small as a book of matches, and just plugs | into any USB port, and I have 4 of those on the front of my computer). I think I've seen one of those. A friend plugged one in to his computer to transfer files to a relative's XP-machine. It was impressive, but he never tried to boot it. | I even made a "Flash DOS" "disk"! (boots up into real DOS). On the XP-machine or on the 98? | Keep in mind these flash drives are (typically) 1 *GB* (or more) in | size - and that is a LOT of space. And they only cost around 10 | dollars, or so. Whereas a floppy is about 1.4 *MB*, and it is SLOW, | SLOW, SLOW, and SLOW. And those stupid things eventually get disk | errors. The price is certainly right. I may go shopping for it, sure. I've got the ports. |>>>>>> Maybe I've missed something that I really need for it to be |>>>>>> installed and run on the HD, but I don't know what it is. |>>>>>> (Keep in mind I also have Acronis True Image AND Norton |>>>>>> Partition Magic for the new computer, which is what I normally |>>>>>> use). |>>>>> |>>>>> It sounds like you've got everything you need, except if you |>>>>> should ever want to multiboot. BING does that as well as |>>>>> partitioning & backing up. |>>>> |>>>> I see. And there are various other boot managers out there, or so |>>>> I've heard. |>>> |>>> Yea. Even WinXP I think is supposed to be one. |>> |>> I think so, but haven't looked into it. |> |> Win98 might not function on your new machine or with its peripherals. | | It likely would IF I had all the drivers it needs for my new hardware | (and there probably would be a few issues there), unless I ran it in | or under VPC (Virtual PC). Haven't had the need or desire yet. If not too great a problem getting drivers & controlling the RAM & keeping XP's mitts off a real Win98 partition-- I'd want to dual boot a real Win98. |> You might have to limit RAM too, if you've got over 500 MB (or is |> that 1 GB?). | | I have 1 GB of RAM. IF I ran VPC (Virtual PC) to use it, I'd set | aside half of that RAM to run W98SE, but, again, I haven't had any | need or desire to do any of this yet. XP is working out just fine. Alright. Could be a lot of trouble getting it working, anyhow. | :-) :-). |> |> -- |> Thanks or Good Luck, |> There may be humor in this post, and, |> Naturally, you will not sue, |> Should things get worse after this, |> PCR |> pcrrcp@netzero.net -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR pcrrcp@netzero.net
Guest Bill in Co. Posted June 13, 2008 Posted June 13, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land PCR wrote: > Bill in Co. wrote: >> PCR wrote: >>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>> PCR wrote: >>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>> >>> ...snip >>>>>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which allegedly >>>>>> allows you to run Win98SE (or some other operating systems) >>>>>> virtually (i.e., running under the auspices of WinXP in a window, >>>>>> as I understand it), but I have never tried it, and don't know >>>>>> much about it. Some people seem to recommend that approach, >>>>>> however - maybe its considered less invasive, and (I guess) you >>>>>> wouldn't need a boot manager - you'd simply choose to run it when >>>>>> you wanted after booting up into XP (at least as I understand it). >>>>> >>>>> It sounds like a viable alternative-- but can it really be the >>>>> same? >>>> >>>> I don't know. Never tried it. I expect there must be SOME >>>> differences, however. >>> >>> I see a recent thread about it. Looks like it will be hard to see >>> system settings. even the FAT32 you see in System Information-- may >>> not be a FAT32! Sheesh! >> >> May not be. (Don't know). > > I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd never be > able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk & defrag-- I don't > think! Would that really be necessary, considering you're only running a session of it for a limited time, which ends when you quit VPC? And maybe it uses something called a virtual disk (I forgot the correct term), which disappears when you quit VPC. > Probably, lots of system settings would look weird-- if you could even > find them! > >>>>>>>> Whenever I use it to do some partition operation (which isn't >>>>>>>> all that often now), I always boot up on the floppy or the >>>>>>>> flash disk. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Right. Me too. Some day I should install so that I might boot my >>>>>>> clone on D:partition, though-- but it would only be for fun. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know if you can do this, but if you can use a Flash drive, >>>>>> it sure beats the hell out of using a floppy. Not sure how well >>>>>> that will work in a 98SE computer, with its limited USB support, >>>>>> especially at the BIOS >>>>>> level - I think you'd need the BIOS capability to be able to boot >>>>>> up to a USB Flash drive to be able to do this (just like you do >>>>>> with a floppy). >>>>> >>>>> I don't really know. I believe I've read over at the Terabyte site >>>>> that is possible to boot off a flash drive or some of them. >>>> >>>> That might be worth checking into. >>>> >>>>> I'm content with my floppy & CD-ROM. >>>> >>>> Once you use a Flash Drive, you get spoiled - fast. It's near >>>> instantaneous, and it's nothing like having to use (or burn) a CD or >>>> DVD each time you make a change! >>> >>> Yea. I might. But right now I do have everything backed up to a 2nd >>> hard drive, which probably is sufficient. >> >> But I was talking about booting up on a flash "disk" (say like for >> BING), instead of a floppy. It is SO MUCH nicer and FASTER (the >> flash drive is about as small as a book of matches, and just plugs >> into any USB port, and I have 4 of those on the front of my computer). > > I think I've seen one of those. A friend plugged one in to his computer > to transfer files to a relative's XP-machine. It was impressive, but he > never tried to boot it. It is really neat, and so easy to plug in and unplug. You can boot to it IF your BIOS is new enough to support it. How old is "new enough"? Not sure, but I'd guess within the past few years. >> I even made a "Flash DOS" "disk"! (boots up into real DOS). > > On the XP-machine or on the 98? Either. On the Win98SE computer I installed that univeral USB storage driver, so I can access the flash disk there too! Before I did that, I had to rely on the flash disk coming with its own driver, or I was out of luck. Some of them (and probably most of them) do NOT have a Win98SE driver, so when you plugged it in, nada. :-) >> Keep in mind these flash drives are (typically) 1 *GB* (or more) in >> size - and that is a LOT of space. And they only cost around 10 >> dollars, or so. Whereas a floppy is about 1.4 *MB*, and it is SLOW, >> SLOW, SLOW, and SLOW. And those stupid things eventually get disk >> errors. > > The price is certainly right. I may go shopping for it, sure. I've got the > ports. > >>>>>>>> Maybe I've missed something that I really need for it to be >>>>>>>> installed and run on the HD, but I don't know what it is. >>>>>>>> (Keep in mind I also have Acronis True Image AND Norton >>>>>>>> Partition Magic for the new computer, which is what I normally >>>>>>>> use). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It sounds like you've got everything you need, except if you >>>>>>> should ever want to multiboot. BING does that as well as >>>>>>> partitioning & backing up. >>>>>> >>>>>> I see. And there are various other boot managers out there, or so >>>>>> I've heard. >>>>> >>>>> Yea. Even WinXP I think is supposed to be one. >>>> >>>> I think so, but haven't looked into it. >>> >>> Win98 might not function on your new machine or with its peripherals. >> >> It likely would IF I had all the drivers it needs for my new hardware >> (and there probably would be a few issues there), unless I ran it in >> or under VPC (Virtual PC). Haven't had the need or desire yet. > > If not too great a problem getting drivers & controlling the RAM & > keeping XP's mitts off a real Win98 partition-- I'd want to dual boot a > real Win98. Could do that too. But I have to say, after using WinXP (and FINALLY getting it customized to my liking and removing all the BS, etc, all of which took me several months), I haven't felt much, if any, need for my slower and less robust Win98SE computer. But it's nice having it as a backup. Although maybe someday I'll throw it out (I almost did when I had to replace the MB due to that power supply swap, but I went ahead and rescued it). Of course if you want to boot in real DOS mode, it has an advantage, but then again, how often do we do that anymore? (well, except for running scanreg /restore :-) >>> You might have to limit RAM too, if you've got over 500 MB (or is >>> that 1 GB?). >> >> I have 1 GB of RAM. IF I ran VPC (Virtual PC) to use it, I'd set >> aside half of that RAM to run W98SE, but, again, I haven't had any >> need or desire to do any of this yet. XP is working out just fine. > > Alright. Could be a lot of trouble getting it working, anyhow. > >> :-) > > :-). The whole thing is too much trouble, that's why I'm pretty much just using the faster and considerably more *robust* WinXP computer these days (i.e. no crashes, etc, etc). And I still haven't got a blue screen yet!! (but I'm sure I will some day) I'm tellin ya, it's hard to kill this "minibeast". (I say minibeast, because it's a lot larger than Win98SE, but the real beast (aka: albatross) is VISTA - which is not allowed on these premises). :-)
Guest PCR Posted June 13, 2008 Posted June 13, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land Bill in Co. wrote: | PCR wrote: |> Bill in Co. wrote: |>> PCR wrote: |>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |>>>> PCR wrote: |>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |>>> |>>> ...snip |>>>>>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which allegedly |>>>>>> allows you to run Win98SE (or some other operating systems) |>>>>>> virtually (i.e., running under the auspices of WinXP in a |>>>>>> window, as I understand it), but I have never tried it, and |>>>>>> don't know much about it. Some people seem to recommend that |>>>>>> approach, however - maybe its considered less invasive, and (I |>>>>>> guess) you wouldn't need a boot manager - you'd simply choose |>>>>>> to run it when you wanted after booting up into XP (at least as |>>>>>> I understand it). |>>>>> |>>>>> It sounds like a viable alternative-- but can it really be the |>>>>> same? |>>>> |>>>> I don't know. Never tried it. I expect there must be SOME |>>>> differences, however. |>>> |>>> I see a recent thread about it. Looks like it will be hard to see |>>> system settings. even the FAT32 you see in System Information-- may |>>> not be a FAT32! Sheesh! |>> |>> May not be. (Don't know). |> |> I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd never |> be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk & defrag-- I |> don't think! | | Would that really be necessary, considering you're only running a | session of it for a limited time, which ends when you quit VPC? | And maybe it uses something called a virtual disk (I forgot the | correct term), which disappears when you quit VPC. Huh? I thought it would be permanent. What good is a disappearing Win98? |> Probably, lots of system settings would look weird-- if you could |> even find them! |> |>>>>>>>> Whenever I use it to do some partition operation (which isn't |>>>>>>>> all that often now), I always boot up on the floppy or the |>>>>>>>> flash disk. |>>>>>>> |>>>>>>> Right. Me too. Some day I should install so that I might boot |>>>>>>> my clone on D:partition, though-- but it would only be for fun. |>>>>>> |>>>>>> I don't know if you can do this, but if you can use a Flash |>>>>>> drive, it sure beats the hell out of using a floppy. Not |>>>>>> sure how well that will work in a 98SE computer, with its |>>>>>> limited USB support, especially at the BIOS |>>>>>> level - I think you'd need the BIOS capability to be able to |>>>>>> boot up to a USB Flash drive to be able to do this (just like |>>>>>> you do with a floppy). |>>>>> |>>>>> I don't really know. I believe I've read over at the Terabyte |>>>>> site that is possible to boot off a flash drive or some of them. |>>>> |>>>> That might be worth checking into. |>>>> |>>>>> I'm content with my floppy & CD-ROM. |>>>> |>>>> Once you use a Flash Drive, you get spoiled - fast. It's near |>>>> instantaneous, and it's nothing like having to use (or burn) a CD |>>>> or DVD each time you make a change! |>>> |>>> Yea. I might. But right now I do have everything backed up to a 2nd |>>> hard drive, which probably is sufficient. |>> |>> But I was talking about booting up on a flash "disk" (say like for |>> BING), instead of a floppy. It is SO MUCH nicer and FASTER (the |>> flash drive is about as small as a book of matches, and just plugs |>> into any USB port, and I have 4 of those on the front of my |>> computer). |> |> I think I've seen one of those. A friend plugged one in to his |> computer to transfer files to a relative's XP-machine. It was |> impressive, but he never tried to boot it. | | It is really neat, and so easy to plug in and unplug. | You can boot to it IF your BIOS is new enough to support it. How | old is "new enough"? Not sure, but I'd guess within the past few | years. This one was bought in '00, IIRC. I'm fairly sure my BIOS won't do it by itself. |>> I even made a "Flash DOS" "disk"! (boots up into real DOS). |> |> On the XP-machine or on the 98? | | Either. On the Win98SE computer I installed that univeral USB | storage driver, so I can access the flash disk there too! Before I | did that, I had to rely on the flash disk coming with its own driver, | or I was out of luck. Some of them (and probably most of them) do | NOT have a Win98SE driver, so when you plugged it in, nada. :-) Hmm. Good work. So, it might not work right off the bat, then, like on my friends machine. Hmm. ....snip |>>> Win98 might not function on your new machine or with its |>>> peripherals. |>> |>> It likely would IF I had all the drivers it needs for my new |>> hardware (and there probably would be a few issues there), unless I |>> ran it in or under VPC (Virtual PC). Haven't had the need or |>> desire yet. |> |> If not too great a problem getting drivers & controlling the RAM & |> keeping XP's mitts off a real Win98 partition-- I'd want to dual |> boot a real Win98. | | Could do that too. But I have to say, after using WinXP (and | FINALLY getting it customized to my liking and removing all the BS, | etc, all of which took me several months), I haven't felt much, if | any, need for my slower and less robust Win98SE computer. But it's | nice having it as a backup. Although maybe someday I'll throw it | out (I almost did when I had to replace the MB due to that power | supply swap, but I went ahead and rescued it). That was good going too. I remember that thread. | Of course if you want to boot in real DOS mode, it has an advantage, | but then again, how often do we do that anymore? (well, except for | running scanreg /restore :-) Uhuh. I'll still do a ScanReg /Fix, though, too, when I remember to. |>>> You might have to limit RAM too, if you've got over 500 MB (or is |>>> that 1 GB?). |>> |>> I have 1 GB of RAM. IF I ran VPC (Virtual PC) to use it, I'd set |>> aside half of that RAM to run W98SE, but, again, I haven't had any |>> need or desire to do any of this yet. XP is working out just fine. |> |> Alright. Could be a lot of trouble getting it working, anyhow. |> |>> :-) |> |> :-). | | The whole thing is too much trouble, that's why I'm pretty much just | using the faster and considerably more *robust* WinXP computer these | days (i.e. no crashes, etc, etc). And I still haven't got a blue | screen yet!! (but I'm sure I will some day) In truth, I likely will be that way too & drop Win98 if/when I get XP. Well, this machine will have irreparably died at that time, anyhow. | I'm tellin ya, it's hard to kill this "minibeast". (I say minibeast, | because it's a lot larger than Win98SE, but the real beast (aka: | albatross) is VISTA - which is not allowed on these premises). :-) I believe those cautions about Vista. :-). -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR pcrrcp@netzero.net
Guest Bill in Co. Posted June 13, 2008 Posted June 13, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land PCR wrote: > Bill in Co. wrote: >> PCR wrote: >>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>> PCR wrote: >>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>>>> PCR wrote: >>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ...snip >>>>>>>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which allegedly >>>>>>>> allows you to run Win98SE (or some other operating systems) >>>>>>>> virtually (i.e., running under the auspices of WinXP in a >>>>>>>> window, as I understand it), but I have never tried it, and >>>>>>>> don't know much about it. Some people seem to recommend that >>>>>>>> approach, however - maybe its considered less invasive, and (I >>>>>>>> guess) you wouldn't need a boot manager - you'd simply choose >>>>>>>> to run it when you wanted after booting up into XP (at least as >>>>>>>> I understand it). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It sounds like a viable alternative-- but can it really be the >>>>>>> same? >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know. Never tried it. I expect there must be SOME >>>>>> differences, however. >>>>> >>>>> I see a recent thread about it. Looks like it will be hard to see >>>>> system settings. even the FAT32 you see in System Information-- may >>>>> not be a FAT32! Sheesh! >>>> >>>> May not be. (Don't know). >>> >>> I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd never >>> be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk & defrag-- I >>> don't think! >> >> Would that really be necessary, considering you're only running a >> session of it for a limited time, which ends when you quit VPC? >> And maybe it uses something called a virtual disk (I forgot the >> correct term), which disappears when you quit VPC. > > Huh? I thought it would be permanent. What good is a disappearing Win98? I think the session disappears - not that you have to reinstall W98 each time! >>> Probably, lots of system settings would look weird-- if you could >>> even find them! >>> >>>>>>>>>> Whenever I use it to do some partition operation (which isn't >>>>>>>>>> all that often now), I always boot up on the floppy or the >>>>>>>>>> flash disk. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Right. Me too. Some day I should install so that I might boot >>>>>>>>> my clone on D:partition, though-- but it would only be for fun. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't know if you can do this, but if you can use a Flash >>>>>>>> drive, it sure beats the hell out of using a floppy. Not >>>>>>>> sure how well that will work in a 98SE computer, with its >>>>>>>> limited USB support, especially at the BIOS >>>>>>>> level - I think you'd need the BIOS capability to be able to >>>>>>>> boot up to a USB Flash drive to be able to do this (just like >>>>>>>> you do with a floppy). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't really know. I believe I've read over at the Terabyte >>>>>>> site that is possible to boot off a flash drive or some of them. >>>>>> >>>>>> That might be worth checking into. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm content with my floppy & CD-ROM. >>>>>> >>>>>> Once you use a Flash Drive, you get spoiled - fast. It's near >>>>>> instantaneous, and it's nothing like having to use (or burn) a CD >>>>>> or DVD each time you make a change! >>>>> >>>>> Yea. I might. But right now I do have everything backed up to a 2nd >>>>> hard drive, which probably is sufficient. >>>> >>>> But I was talking about booting up on a flash "disk" (say like for >>>> BING), instead of a floppy. It is SO MUCH nicer and FASTER (the >>>> flash drive is about as small as a book of matches, and just plugs >>>> into any USB port, and I have 4 of those on the front of my >>>> computer). >>> >>> I think I've seen one of those. A friend plugged one in to his >>> computer to transfer files to a relative's XP-machine. It was >>> impressive, but he never tried to boot it. >> >> It is really neat, and so easy to plug in and unplug. >> You can boot to it IF your BIOS is new enough to support it. How >> old is "new enough"? Not sure, but I'd guess within the past few >> years. > > This one was bought in '00, IIRC. I'm fairly sure my BIOS won't do it by > itself. THAT is too old, I'm almost certain!! (time for a new computer) PS Having this BIOS capability is REALLY nice. When I reboot, you briefly on the screen see a menu that says something like, Press <F2> for BIOS or <F12> for a boot menu (which allows me to select whatever media I want to boot to, including the flash drive, assuming it was plugged in). Also, the newer HDs coming out are now SATA (serial), and not PATA (with those bulky 40 pin connectors). SATA (serial, with a much smaller and simpler connector) is the new standard. That too won't be supported by your BIOS, although there may be a workaround. >>>> I even made a "Flash DOS" "disk"! (boots up into real DOS). >>> >>> On the XP-machine or on the 98? >> >> Either. On the Win98SE computer I installed that univeral USB >> storage driver, so I can access the flash disk there too! Before I >> did that, I had to rely on the flash disk coming with its own driver, >> or I was out of luck. Some of them (and probably most of them) do >> NOT have a Win98SE driver, so when you plugged it in, nada. :-) > > Hmm. Good work. So, it might not work right off the bat, then, like on > my friends machine. Hmm. Right, but that Universal Generic USB driver should (nusb24e.exe, or whatever) (I used the older version there, as I think the newer ones were a bit fussier. You'd have to read up on it). > ...snip >>>>> Win98 might not function on your new machine or with its >>>>> peripherals. >>>> >>>> It likely would IF I had all the drivers it needs for my new >>>> hardware (and there probably would be a few issues there), unless I >>>> ran it in or under VPC (Virtual PC). Haven't had the need or >>>> desire yet. >>> >>> If not too great a problem getting drivers & controlling the RAM & >>> keeping XP's mitts off a real Win98 partition-- I'd want to dual >>> boot a real Win98. >> >> Could do that too. But I have to say, after using WinXP (and >> FINALLY getting it customized to my liking and removing all the BS, >> etc, all of which took me several months), I haven't felt much, if >> any, need for my slower and less robust Win98SE computer. But it's >> nice having it as a backup. Although maybe someday I'll throw it >> out (I almost did when I had to replace the MB due to that power >> supply swap, but I went ahead and rescued it). > > That was good going too. I remember that thread. > >> Of course if you want to boot in real DOS mode, it has an advantage, >> but then again, how often do we do that anymore? (well, except for >> running scanreg /restore :-) > > Uhuh. I'll still do a ScanReg /Fix, though, too, when I remember to. > >>>>> You might have to limit RAM too, if you've got over 500 MB (or is >>>>> that 1 GB?). >>>> >>>> I have 1 GB of RAM. IF I ran VPC (Virtual PC) to use it, I'd set >>>> aside half of that RAM to run W98SE, but, again, I haven't had any >>>> need or desire to do any of this yet. XP is working out just fine. >>> >>> Alright. Could be a lot of trouble getting it working, anyhow. >>> >>>> :-) >>> >>> :-). >> >> The whole thing is too much trouble, that's why I'm pretty much just >> using the faster and considerably more *robust* WinXP computer these >> days (i.e. no crashes, etc, etc). And I still haven't got a blue >> screen yet!! (but I'm sure I will some day) > > In truth, I likely will be that way too & drop Win98 if/when I get XP. > Well, this machine will have irreparably died at that time, anyhow. > >> I'm tellin ya, it's hard to kill this "minibeast". (I say minibeast, >> because it's a lot larger than Win98SE, but the real beast (aka: >> albatross) is VISTA - which is not allowed on these premises). :-) > > I believe those cautions about Vista. :-). > > > -- > Thanks or Good Luck, > There may be humor in this post, and, > Naturally, you will not sue, > Should things get worse after this, > PCR > pcrrcp@netzero.net
Guest PCR Posted June 14, 2008 Posted June 14, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land Bill in Co. wrote: | PCR wrote: |> Bill in Co. wrote: ....snip |>>> I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd |>>> never be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk & |>>> defrag-- I don't think! |>> |>> Would that really be necessary, considering you're only running a |>> session of it for a limited time, which ends when you quit VPC? |>> And maybe it uses something called a virtual disk (I forgot the |>> correct term), which disappears when you quit VPC. |> |> Huh? I thought it would be permanent. What good is a disappearing |> Win98? | | I think the session disappears - not that you have to reinstall W98 | each time! Whatever. OK. ....snip |>>>> But I was talking about booting up on a flash "disk" (say like for |>>>> BING), instead of a floppy. It is SO MUCH nicer and FASTER |>>>> (the flash drive is about as small as a book of matches, and just |>>>> plugs into any USB port, and I have 4 of those on the front of my |>>>> computer). |>>> |>>> I think I've seen one of those. A friend plugged one in to his |>>> computer to transfer files to a relative's XP-machine. It was |>>> impressive, but he never tried to boot it. |>> |>> It is really neat, and so easy to plug in and unplug. |>> You can boot to it IF your BIOS is new enough to support it. How |>> old is "new enough"? Not sure, but I'd guess within the past few |>> years. |> |> This one was bought in '00, IIRC. I'm fairly sure my BIOS won't do |> it by itself. | | THAT is too old, I'm almost certain!! (time for a new computer) | PS Having this BIOS capability is REALLY nice. When I reboot, you | briefly on the screen see a menu that says something like, Press <F2> | for BIOS or <F12> for a boot menu (which allows me to select whatever | media I want to boot to, including the flash drive, assuming it was | plugged in). Yea, sounds nice. | Also, the newer HDs coming out are now SATA (serial), and not PATA | (with those bulky 40 pin connectors). SATA (serial, with a much | smaller and simpler connector) is the new standard. That too won't | be supported by your BIOS, although there may be a workaround. Uhuh, yea, SATA sounds nice, sure. |>>>> I even made a "Flash DOS" "disk"! (boots up into real DOS). |>>> |>>> On the XP-machine or on the 98? |>> |>> Either. On the Win98SE computer I installed that univeral USB |>> storage driver, so I can access the flash disk there too! Before |>> I did that, I had to rely on the flash disk coming with its own |>> driver, or I was out of luck. Some of them (and probably most of |>> them) do NOT have a Win98SE driver, so when you plugged it in, |>> nada. :-) |> |> Hmm. Good work. So, it might not work right off the bat, then, like |> on my friends machine. Hmm. | | Right, but that Universal Generic USB driver should (nusb24e.exe, or | whatever) | (I used the older version there, as I think the newer ones were a bit | fussier. You'd have to read up on it). OK. Thanks for the info. Sounds good. ....snip -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR pcrrcp@netzero.net
Guest Bill in Co. Posted June 14, 2008 Posted June 14, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land PCR wrote: > Bill in Co. wrote: >> PCR wrote: >>> Bill in Co. wrote: > > ...snip >>>>> I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd >>>>> never be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk & >>>>> defrag-- I don't think! >>>> >>>> Would that really be necessary, considering you're only running a >>>> session of it for a limited time, which ends when you quit VPC? >>>> And maybe it uses something called a virtual disk (I forgot the >>>> correct term), which disappears when you quit VPC. >>> >>> Huh? I thought it would be permanent. What good is a disappearing >>> Win98? >> >> I think the session disappears - not that you have to reinstall W98 >> each time! > > Whatever. OK. Hey - there is BIG difference there! :-) > ...snip >>>>>> But I was talking about booting up on a flash "disk" (say like for >>>>>> BING), instead of a floppy. It is SO MUCH nicer and FASTER >>>>>> (the flash drive is about as small as a book of matches, and just >>>>>> plugs into any USB port, and I have 4 of those on the front of my >>>>>> computer). >>>>> >>>>> I think I've seen one of those. A friend plugged one in to his >>>>> computer to transfer files to a relative's XP-machine. It was >>>>> impressive, but he never tried to boot it. >>>> >>>> It is really neat, and so easy to plug in and unplug. >>>> You can boot to it IF your BIOS is new enough to support it. How >>>> old is "new enough"? Not sure, but I'd guess within the past few >>>> years. >>> >>> This one was bought in '00, IIRC. I'm fairly sure my BIOS won't do >>> it by itself. >> >> THAT is too old, I'm almost certain!! (time for a new computer) >> PS Having this BIOS capability is REALLY nice. When I reboot, you >> briefly on the screen see a menu that says something like, Press <F2> >> for BIOS or <F12> for a boot menu (which allows me to select whatever >> media I want to boot to, including the flash drive, assuming it was >> plugged in). > > Yea, sounds nice. It is LOVELY. But it's always nice to have the floppy drive option too, to fall back on. And can you believe it? Many of the new computers are either offering the floppy as an option, and perhaps some have dispensed with it entirely. >> Also, the newer HDs coming out are now SATA (serial), and not PATA >> (with those bulky 40 pin connectors). SATA (serial, with a much >> smaller and simpler connector) is the new standard. That too won't >> be supported by your BIOS, although there may be a workaround. > > Uhuh, yea, SATA sounds nice, sure. > >>>>>> I even made a "Flash DOS" "disk"! (boots up into real DOS). >>>>> >>>>> On the XP-machine or on the 98? >>>> >>>> Either. On the Win98SE computer I installed that univeral USB >>>> storage driver, so I can access the flash disk there too! Before >>>> I did that, I had to rely on the flash disk coming with its own >>>> driver, or I was out of luck. Some of them (and probably most of >>>> them) do NOT have a Win98SE driver, so when you plugged it in, >>>> nada. :-) >>> >>> Hmm. Good work. So, it might not work right off the bat, then, like >>> on my friends machine. Hmm. >> >> Right, but that Universal Generic USB driver should (nusb24e.exe, or >> whatever) >> (I used the older version there, as I think the newer ones were a bit >> fussier. You'd have to read up on it). > > OK. Thanks for the info. Sounds good. Yeah - look into it, if you're considering playing with flash drives.
Guest Bill Blanton Posted June 14, 2008 Posted June 14, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:ezMUmjZzIHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > PCR wrote: >> Bill in Co. wrote: >>> PCR wrote: >>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>>> PCR wrote: >>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>>>>> PCR wrote: >>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> ...snip >>>>>>>>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which allegedly >>>>>>>>> allows you to run Win98SE (or some other operating systems) >>>>>>>>> virtually (i.e., running under the auspices of WinXP in a >>>>>>>>> window, as I understand it), but I have never tried it, and >>>>>>>>> don't know much about it. Some people seem to recommend that >>>>>>>>> approach, however - maybe its considered less invasive, and (I >>>>>>>>> guess) you wouldn't need a boot manager - you'd simply choose >>>>>>>>> to run it when you wanted after booting up into XP (at least as >>>>>>>>> I understand it). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It sounds like a viable alternative-- but can it really be the >>>>>>>> same? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't know. Never tried it. I expect there must be SOME >>>>>>> differences, however. Software-wise there isn't much difference. You are however confined to the emulated hardware of the virtual machine. >>>>>> >>>>>> I see a recent thread about it. Looks like it will be hard to see >>>>>> system settings. even the FAT32 you see in System Information-- may >>>>>> not be a FAT32! Sheesh! I didn't get that. Where in Sys Info is that information? >>>>> >>>>> May not be. (Don't know). >>>> >>>> I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd never >>>> be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk & defrag-- I >>>> don't think! No, the disk structure is emulated just as a real disk. You can scandisk, defrag, go in and muck around witht the partition tables or boot sectors, install a boot manager, muti-boot, whatever.. >>> >>> Would that really be necessary, considering you're only running a >>> session of it for a limited time, which ends when you quit VPC? >>> And maybe it uses something called a virtual disk (I forgot the >>> correct term), which disappears when you quit VPC. >> >> Huh? I thought it would be permanent. What good is a disappearing Win98? > > I think the session disappears - not that you have to reinstall W98 each time! You have a choice when you shut down, Save changes, delete changes, or save and save state (think hibernate). Install your favorite program, shut down and save. Install some crap program, trash the OS, then shut down without a save. It's great for testing programs before putting them on your production machine. That's just one use of course. Personally, I haven't had a real need to multi-boot, since installing VPC. >>>> Probably, lots of system settings would look weird-- if you could >>>> even find them! No, not at all.
Guest PCR Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land Bill in Co. wrote: | PCR wrote: |> Bill in Co. wrote: |>> PCR wrote: |>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |> |> ...snip |>>>>> I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd |>>>>> never be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk & |>>>>> defrag-- I don't think! |>>>> |>>>> Would that really be necessary, considering you're only running a |>>>> session of it for a limited time, which ends when you quit VPC? |>>>> And maybe it uses something called a virtual disk (I forgot the |>>>> correct term), which disappears when you quit VPC. |>>> |>>> Huh? I thought it would be permanent. What good is a disappearing |>>> Win98? |>> |>> I think the session disappears - not that you have to reinstall W98 |>> each time! |> |> Whatever. OK. | | Hey - there is BIG difference there! :-) Well, neither of us know. I see Blanton has entered, & I'm sure we will be enlightened. Yea, I thought that's what you meant, that just the session would disappear. But that's bad enough! Nothing you have done will stick? Why do it? |> ...snip |>>>>>> But I was talking about booting up on a flash "disk" (say like |>>>>>> for BING), instead of a floppy. It is SO MUCH nicer and |>>>>>> FASTER (the flash drive is about as small as a book of matches, |>>>>>> and just plugs into any USB port, and I have 4 of those on the |>>>>>> front of my computer). |>>>>> |>>>>> I think I've seen one of those. A friend plugged one in to his |>>>>> computer to transfer files to a relative's XP-machine. It was |>>>>> impressive, but he never tried to boot it. |>>>> |>>>> It is really neat, and so easy to plug in and unplug. |>>>> You can boot to it IF your BIOS is new enough to support it. How |>>>> old is "new enough"? Not sure, but I'd guess within the past few |>>>> years. |>>> |>>> This one was bought in '00, IIRC. I'm fairly sure my BIOS won't do |>>> it by itself. |>> |>> THAT is too old, I'm almost certain!! (time for a new computer) |>> PS Having this BIOS capability is REALLY nice. When I reboot, you |>> briefly on the screen see a menu that says something like, Press |>> <F2> for BIOS or <F12> for a boot menu (which allows me to select |>> whatever media I want to boot to, including the flash drive, |>> assuming it was plugged in). |> |> Yea, sounds nice. | | It is LOVELY. But it's always nice to have the floppy drive | option too, to fall back on. And can you believe it? Many of | the new computers are either offering the floppy as an option, and | perhaps some have dispensed with it entirely. I probably would move this floppy to the new computer on the sad day this one goes irreparable! |>> Also, the newer HDs coming out are now SATA (serial), and not PATA |>> (with those bulky 40 pin connectors). SATA (serial, with a much |>> smaller and simpler connector) is the new standard. That too won't |>> be supported by your BIOS, although there may be a workaround. |> |> Uhuh, yea, SATA sounds nice, sure. |> |>>>>>> I even made a "Flash DOS" "disk"! (boots up into real DOS). |>>>>> |>>>>> On the XP-machine or on the 98? |>>>> |>>>> Either. On the Win98SE computer I installed that univeral USB |>>>> storage driver, so I can access the flash disk there too! |>>>> Before I did that, I had to rely on the flash disk coming with |>>>> its own driver, or I was out of luck. Some of them (and |>>>> probably most of them) do NOT have a Win98SE driver, so when you |>>>> plugged it in, nada. :-) |>>> |>>> Hmm. Good work. So, it might not work right off the bat, then, like |>>> on my friends machine. Hmm. |>> |>> Right, but that Universal Generic USB driver should (nusb24e.exe, or |>> whatever) |>> (I used the older version there, as I think the newer ones were a |>> bit fussier. You'd have to read up on it). |> |> OK. Thanks for the info. Sounds good. | | Yeah - look into it, if you're considering playing with flash drives. The price is certainly right for one/two of them-- even if I can't boot from it! I should start Googling, or maybe walk into Staples next time I pass it. -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR pcrrcp@netzero.net
Guest PCR Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land Bill Blanton wrote: | "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message | news:ezMUmjZzIHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... |> PCR wrote: |>> Bill in Co. wrote: |>>> PCR wrote: |>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |>>>>> PCR wrote: |>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |>>>>>>> PCR wrote: |>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |>>>>>> |>>>>>> ...snip |>>>>>>>>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which allegedly |>>>>>>>>> allows you to run Win98SE (or some other operating systems) |>>>>>>>>> virtually (i.e., running under the auspices of WinXP in a |>>>>>>>>> window, as I understand it), but I have never tried it, and |>>>>>>>>> don't know much about it. Some people seem to recommend that |>>>>>>>>> approach, however - maybe its considered less invasive, and |>>>>>>>>> (I guess) you wouldn't need a boot manager - you'd simply |>>>>>>>>> choose to run it when you wanted after booting up into XP |>>>>>>>>> (at least as I understand it). |>>>>>>>> |>>>>>>>> It sounds like a viable alternative-- but can it really be the |>>>>>>>> same? |>>>>>>> |>>>>>>> I don't know. Never tried it. I expect there must be SOME |>>>>>>> differences, however. | | Software-wise there isn't much difference. You are however confined | to the | emulated hardware of the virtual machine. | |>>>>>> |>>>>>> I see a recent thread about it. Looks like it will be hard to |>>>>>> see system settings. even the FAT32 you see in System |>>>>>> Information-- may not be a FAT32! Sheesh! | | I didn't get that. Where in Sys Info is that information? Oops! Sorry! I've looked again at that FACE thread (6/10/08 11:50 AM), & I see the weird-looking "partition" was actually a shared folder... "The two virtual machines share a folder (VMA is installed on both) It is known to both as 'drive Z' Available space on drive C: 1733MB of 1994MB (FAT32) Available space on drive Z: 205090MB of 238472MB (â�÷¿g)" And I guess it probably would look that way in a real Win98 too! |>>>>> |>>>>> May not be. (Don't know). |>>>> |>>>> I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd |>>>> never be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk & |>>>> defrag-- I don't think! | | No, the disk structure is emulated just as a real disk. You can | scandisk, defrag, | go in and muck around witht the partition tables or boot sectors, | install a boot | manager, muti-boot, whatever.. That's an excellent emulation, then. But how can that be? Are you be able to boot to DOS or to a Starup Diskette to do that? I thought WinXP couldn't! Or is this done from some sort of CD boot to a repair console? |>>> |>>> Would that really be necessary, considering you're only running a |>>> session of it for a limited time, which ends when you quit VPC? |>>> And maybe it uses something called a virtual disk (I forgot the |>>> correct term), which disappears when you quit VPC. |>> |>> Huh? I thought it would be permanent. What good is a disappearing |>> Win98? |> |> I think the session disappears - not that you have to reinstall W98 |> each time! | | You have a choice when you shut down, Save changes, delete changes, or | save and save state (think hibernate). Install your favorite | program, shut | down and save. Install some crap program, trash the OS, then shut down | without a save. It's great for testing programs before putting them on | your production machine. That's just one use of course. I thought it would be something like that-- not too bad! | Personally, I haven't had a real need to multi-boot, since installing | VPC. | | |>>>> Probably, lots of system settings would look weird-- if you could |>>>> even find them! | | No, not at all. So... doing as I do here answering posts in this NG... all of my Master Posts still would apply? All of the settings I point to for a fix would be in the same places & mean the same thing? What about files such as...?... HIMEM.SYS Type: System file Loc: C:\WINDOWS Size: 33,181 bytes Mod: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:22:00 PM Are they the same on a virtual machine? Can one enter a Windows DOS session & would the commands be the same? -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR pcrrcp@netzero.net
Guest Bill Blanton Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message news:ObJvEPpzIHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > Bill Blanton wrote: > | "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > | news:ezMUmjZzIHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > |> PCR wrote: > |>> Bill in Co. wrote: > |>>> PCR wrote: > |>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: > |>>>>> PCR wrote: > |>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: > |>>>>>>> PCR wrote: > |>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: > |>>>>>>>>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which allegedly > |>>>>>>>>> allows you to run Win98SE (or some other operating systems) > | Software-wise there isn't much difference. You are however confined > | to the > | emulated hardware of the virtual machine. > |>>>> I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd > |>>>> never be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk & > |>>>> defrag-- I don't think! > | > | No, the disk structure is emulated just as a real disk. You can > | scandisk, defrag, > | go in and muck around witht the partition tables or boot sectors, > | install a boot > | manager, muti-boot, whatever.. > That's an excellent emulation, then. But how can that be? Are you be > able to boot to DOS or to a Starup Diskette to do that? I thought WinXP > couldn't! Or is this done from some sort of CD boot to a repair console? Yes, you can boot to a boot floppy or CD. Real or virtual. I've got a folder full of virtual boot media. (much faster booting than the real thing) It's a PC as far as the OS is concerned, and boots the same way. The virtual BIOS loads the MBR, the MBR loads the boot sector, which loads Windows. The virtual hadr disk is one big file on the host machine. Copying the file is analogous to cloning your HD. > |>>> > |>>> Would that really be necessary, considering you're only running a > |>>> session of it for a limited time, which ends when you quit VPC? > |>>> And maybe it uses something called a virtual disk (I forgot the > |>>> correct term), which disappears when you quit VPC. > |>> > |>> Huh? I thought it would be permanent. What good is a disappearing > |>> Win98? > |> > |> I think the session disappears - not that you have to reinstall W98 > |> each time! > | > | You have a choice when you shut down, Save changes, delete changes, or > | save and save state (think hibernate). Install your favorite > | program, shut > | down and save. Install some crap program, trash the OS, then shut down > | without a save. It's great for testing programs before putting them on > | your production machine. That's just one use of course. > > I thought it would be something like that-- not too bad! > > | Personally, I haven't had a real need to multi-boot, since installing > | VPC. > | > | > |>>>> Probably, lots of system settings would look weird-- if you could > |>>>> even find them! > | > | No, not at all. > > So... doing as I do here answering posts in this NG... all of my Master > Posts still would apply? All of the settings I point to for a fix would > be in the same places & mean the same thing? If it's software code, pretty much. Hardware is a different matter. >What about files such > as...?... > > HIMEM.SYS > Type: System file > Loc: C:\WINDOWS > Size: 33,181 bytes > Mod: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:22:00 PM > > Are they the same on a virtual machine? Can one enter a Windows DOS > session & would the commands be the same? Yes, and yes.
Guest PCR Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land Bill Blanton wrote: | "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message | news:ObJvEPpzIHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... |> Bill Blanton wrote: |> | "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message |> | news:ezMUmjZzIHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... |> |> PCR wrote: |> |>> Bill in Co. wrote: |> |>>> PCR wrote: |> |>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |> |>>>>> PCR wrote: |> |>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |> |>>>>>>> PCR wrote: |> |>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: | |> |>>>>>>>>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which |> |>>>>>>>>> allegedly allows you to run Win98SE (or some other |> |>>>>>>>>> operating systems) | |> | Software-wise there isn't much difference. You are however confined |> | to the |> | emulated hardware of the virtual machine. | | |> |>>>> I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd |> |>>>> never be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk & |> |>>>> defrag-- I don't think! |> | |> | No, the disk structure is emulated just as a real disk. You can |> | scandisk, defrag, |> | go in and muck around witht the partition tables or boot sectors, |> | install a boot |> | manager, muti-boot, whatever.. | | |> That's an excellent emulation, then. But how can that be? Are you be |> able to boot to DOS or to a Starup Diskette to do that? I thought |> WinXP couldn't! Or is this done from some sort of CD boot to a |> repair console? | | Yes, you can boot to a boot floppy or CD. Real or virtual. I've got a | folder | full of virtual boot media. (much faster booting than the real thing) | | It's a PC as far as the OS is concerned, and boots the same way. The | virtual | BIOS loads the MBR, the MBR loads the boot sector, which loads | Windows. | | The virtual hadr disk is one big file on the host machine. Copying | the file | is analogous to cloning your HD. That's very impressive. But the BIOS is virtual too? So, even this BIOS won't work, until you've boot to XP first & began the Win98 simulation? Only then can you boot a Startup Disk to the virtual Win98, I guess. But, very impressive how XP has completely swallowed Win98 & even the BIOS! (I am sprinkling arsenic on my own Win98 machine immediately, though!) |> |>>> |> |>>> Would that really be necessary, considering you're only running |> |>>> a session of it for a limited time, which ends when you quit |> |>>> VPC? And maybe it uses something called a virtual disk (I |> |>>> forgot the correct term), which disappears when you quit VPC. |> |>> |> |>> Huh? I thought it would be permanent. What good is a disappearing |> |>> Win98? |> |> |> |> I think the session disappears - not that you have to reinstall |> |> W98 each time! |> | |> | You have a choice when you shut down, Save changes, delete |> | changes, or save and save state (think hibernate). Install your |> | favorite |> | program, shut |> | down and save. Install some crap program, trash the OS, then shut |> | down without a save. It's great for testing programs before |> | putting them on your production machine. That's just one use of |> | course. |> |> I thought it would be something like that-- not too bad! |> |> | Personally, I haven't had a real need to multi-boot, since |> | installing VPC. |> | |> | |> |>>>> Probably, lots of system settings would look weird-- if you |> |>>>> could even find them! |> | |> | No, not at all. |> |> So... doing as I do here answering posts in this NG... all of my |> Master Posts still would apply? All of the settings I point to for a |> fix would be in the same places & mean the same thing? | | If it's software code, pretty much. Hardware is a different matter. OK. I was wondering whether I could still look things up & participate in this NG from an XP virtual Win98. Sounds like it could be mostly doable, but looking up hardware settings & Registry keys to post would become problematic. |>What about files such |> as...?... |> |> HIMEM.SYS |> Type: System file |> Loc: C:\WINDOWS |> Size: 33,181 bytes |> Mod: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:22:00 PM |> |> Are they the same on a virtual machine? Can one enter a Windows DOS |> session & would the commands be the same? | | Yes, and yes. Very impressive what they did. -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR pcrrcp@netzero.net
Guest Bill in Co. Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land PCR wrote: > Bill Blanton wrote: >> "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message >> news:ObJvEPpzIHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>> Bill Blanton wrote: >>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>> news:ezMUmjZzIHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>> PCR wrote: >>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>>>>> PCR wrote: >>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>>>>>>> PCR wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> PCR wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which >>>>>>>>>>>>> allegedly allows you to run Win98SE (or some other >>>>>>>>>>>>> operating systems) >> >>>> Software-wise there isn't much difference. You are however confined >>>> to the emulated hardware of the virtual machine. >> >> >>>>>>>> I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd >>>>>>>> never be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk & >>>>>>>> defrag-- I don't think! >>>> >>>> No, the disk structure is emulated just as a real disk. You can >>>> scandisk, defrag, >>>> go in and muck around witht the partition tables or boot sectors, >>>> install a boot manager, muti-boot, whatever.. >> >> >>> That's an excellent emulation, then. But how can that be? Are you be >>> able to boot to DOS or to a Starup Diskette to do that? I thought >>> WinXP couldn't! Or is this done from some sort of CD boot to a >>> repair console? >> >> Yes, you can boot to a boot floppy or CD. Real or virtual. I've got a >> folder full of virtual boot media. (much faster booting than the real >> thing) >> >> It's a PC as far as the OS is concerned, and boots the same way. The >> virtual BIOS loads the MBR, the MBR loads the boot sector, which loads >> Windows. >> >> The virtual hadr disk is one big file on the host machine. Copying >> the file is analogous to cloning your HD. > > That's very impressive. But the BIOS is virtual too? Is it really? How so? Well, maybe it's in the terminology used here ("virtual BIOS") -(whatever that means). (Probably some part of RAM is set aside for updating some address pointers and data normally used by the regular BIOS, I guess, like shadowing - but apparently(?) needing to be changed to run VPC, but I don't understand why that would even be necessary). > So, even this BIOS > won't work, until you've boot to XP first & began the Win98 simulation? Why wouldn't the BIOS work (or change, for that matter)? The real BIOS is hard-coded in ROM or EEPROM (AFAIK), and never changes, UNLESS you flash update it. > Only then can you boot a Startup Disk to the virtual Win98, I guess. And that startup disk can be a Flash Drive, which is really nice and fast. > But, very impressive how XP has completely swallowed Win98 & even the > BIOS! Swallowing the BIOS? I don't think so! > (I am sprinkling arsenic on my own Win98 machine immediately, though!) > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Would that really be necessary, considering you're only running >>>>>>> a session of it for a limited time, which ends when you quit >>>>>>> VPC? And maybe it uses something called a virtual disk (I >>>>>>> forgot the correct term), which disappears when you quit VPC. >>>>>> >>>>>> Huh? I thought it would be permanent. What good is a disappearing >>>>>> Win98? >>>>> >>>>> I think the session disappears - not that you have to reinstall >>>>> W98 each time! >>>> >>>> You have a choice when you shut down, Save changes, delete >>>> changes, or save and save state (think hibernate). Install your >>>> favorite program, shut >>>> down and save. Install some crap program, trash the OS, then shut >>>> down without a save. It's great for testing programs before >>>> putting them on your production machine. That's just one use of >>>> course. >>> >>> I thought it would be something like that-- not too bad! >>> >>>> Personally, I haven't had a real need to multi-boot, since >>>> installing VPC. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Probably, lots of system settings would look weird-- if you >>>>>>>> could even find them! >>>> >>>> No, not at all. >>> >>> So... doing as I do here answering posts in this NG... all of my >>> Master Posts still would apply? All of the settings I point to for a >>> fix would be in the same places & mean the same thing? >> >> If it's software code, pretty much. Hardware is a different matter. > > OK. I was wondering whether I could still look things up & participate > in this NG from an XP virtual Win98. Why? You can participate in this newsgroup running XP, just like I am doing now. You don't need a VPC or Win98 to do that. > Sounds like it could be mostly > doable, but looking up hardware settings & Registry keys to post would > become problematic. > >>> What about files such >>> as...?... >>> >>> HIMEM.SYS >>> Type: System file >>> Loc: C:\WINDOWS >>> Size: 33,181 bytes >>> Mod: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:22:00 PM >>> >>> Are they the same on a virtual machine? Can one enter a Windows DOS >>> session & would the commands be the same? >> >> Yes, and yes. > > Very impressive what they did. > > > -- > Thanks or Good Luck, > There may be humor in this post, and, > Naturally, you will not sue, > Should things get worse after this, > PCR > pcrrcp@netzero.net
Guest PCR Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land Bill in Co. wrote: | PCR wrote: |> Bill Blanton wrote: |>> "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message |>> news:ObJvEPpzIHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... |>>> Bill Blanton wrote: |>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message |>>>> news:ezMUmjZzIHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... |>>>>> PCR wrote: |>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |>>>>>>> PCR wrote: |>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |>>>>>>>>> PCR wrote: |>>>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |>>>>>>>>>>> PCR wrote: |>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |>> |>>>>>>>>>>>>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which |>>>>>>>>>>>>> allegedly allows you to run Win98SE (or some other |>>>>>>>>>>>>> operating systems) |>> |>>>> Software-wise there isn't much difference. You are however |>>>> confined to the emulated hardware of the virtual machine. |>> |>> |>>>>>>>> I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd |>>>>>>>> never be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk |>>>>>>>> & defrag-- I don't think! |>>>> |>>>> No, the disk structure is emulated just as a real disk. You can |>>>> scandisk, defrag, |>>>> go in and muck around witht the partition tables or boot sectors, |>>>> install a boot manager, muti-boot, whatever.. |>> |>> |>>> That's an excellent emulation, then. But how can that be? Are you |>>> be able to boot to DOS or to a Starup Diskette to do that? I |>>> thought WinXP couldn't! Or is this done from some sort of CD boot |>>> to a repair console? |>> |>> Yes, you can boot to a boot floppy or CD. Real or virtual. I've got |>> a folder full of virtual boot media. (much faster booting than the |>> real thing) |>> |>> It's a PC as far as the OS is concerned, and boots the same way. The |>> virtual BIOS loads the MBR, the MBR loads the boot sector, which |>> loads Windows. |>> |>> The virtual hadr disk is one big file on the host machine. Copying |>> the file is analogous to cloning your HD. |> |> That's very impressive. But the BIOS is virtual too? | | Is it really? How so? | Well, maybe it's in the terminology used here ("virtual BIOS") | -(whatever that means). | (Probably some part of RAM is set aside for updating some address | pointers and data normally used by the regular BIOS, I guess, like | shadowing - but apparently(?) needing to be changed to run VPC, but I | don't understand why that would even be necessary). It could be what you say. But I want to hear Blanton's answer before I fully commit! |> So, even this BIOS |> won't work, until you've boot to XP first & began the Win98 |> simulation? | | Why wouldn't the BIOS work (or change, for that matter)? The real | BIOS is hard-coded in ROM or EEPROM (AFAIK), and never changes, | UNLESS you flash update it. I'm thinking... don't forget the Win98 partition is really just a file that XP will expand. If you boot to the real BIOS, it won't see a partition. Therefore, they had to create a virtual BIOS too-- in order to make certain Win98 & DOS commands work! |> Only then can you boot a Startup Disk to the virtual Win98, I guess. | | And that startup disk can be a Flash Drive, which is really nice and | fast. It depends on whether the virtual BIOS will allow it, I guess. |> But, very impressive how XP has completely swallowed Win98 & even the |> BIOS! | | Swallowing the BIOS? I don't think so! It had to swallow it to get FDISK, etc., to work, I guess. |> (I am sprinkling arsenic on my own Win98 machine immediately, |> though!) |> |>>>>>>> |>>>>>>> Would that really be necessary, considering you're only running |>>>>>>> a session of it for a limited time, which ends when you quit |>>>>>>> VPC? And maybe it uses something called a virtual disk (I |>>>>>>> forgot the correct term), which disappears when you quit VPC. |>>>>>> |>>>>>> Huh? I thought it would be permanent. What good is a |>>>>>> disappearing Win98? |>>>>> |>>>>> I think the session disappears - not that you have to reinstall |>>>>> W98 each time! |>>>> |>>>> You have a choice when you shut down, Save changes, delete |>>>> changes, or save and save state (think hibernate). Install your |>>>> favorite program, shut |>>>> down and save. Install some crap program, trash the OS, then shut |>>>> down without a save. It's great for testing programs before |>>>> putting them on your production machine. That's just one use of |>>>> course. |>>> |>>> I thought it would be something like that-- not too bad! |>>> |>>>> Personally, I haven't had a real need to multi-boot, since |>>>> installing VPC. |>>>> |>>>> |>>>>>>>> Probably, lots of system settings would look weird-- if you |>>>>>>>> could even find them! |>>>> |>>>> No, not at all. |>>> |>>> So... doing as I do here answering posts in this NG... all of my |>>> Master Posts still would apply? All of the settings I point to for |>>> a fix would be in the same places & mean the same thing? |>> |>> If it's software code, pretty much. Hardware is a different matter. |> |> OK. I was wondering whether I could still look things up & |> participate in this NG from an XP virtual Win98. | | Why? You can participate in this newsgroup running XP, just like I | am doing now. You don't need a VPC or Win98 to do that. I would have to memorize all Win98 settings & file versions to do that! Now I just look most of them up! |> Sounds like it could be mostly |> doable, but looking up hardware settings & Registry keys to post |> would become problematic. |> |>>> What about files such |>>> as...?... |>>> |>>> HIMEM.SYS |>>> Type: System file |>>> Loc: C:\WINDOWS |>>> Size: 33,181 bytes |>>> Mod: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:22:00 PM |>>> |>>> Are they the same on a virtual machine? Can one enter a Windows DOS |>>> session & would the commands be the same? |>> |>> Yes, and yes. |> |> Very impressive what they did. |> |> |> -- |> Thanks or Good Luck, |> There may be humor in this post, and, |> Naturally, you will not sue, |> Should things get worse after this, |> PCR |> pcrrcp@netzero.net -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR pcrrcp@netzero.net
Guest Bill Blanton Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message news:ur%23M2SyzIHA.4040@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Bill Blanton wrote: > | "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message > | news:ObJvEPpzIHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > |> Bill Blanton wrote: > |> | "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message > |> | news:ezMUmjZzIHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > |> |> PCR wrote: > |> |>> Bill in Co. wrote: > |> |>>> PCR wrote: > |> |>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: > |> |>>>>> PCR wrote: > |> |>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: > |> |>>>>>>> PCR wrote: > |> |>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: > | > |> |>>>>>>>>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which > |> |>>>>>>>>> allegedly allows you to run Win98SE (or some other > |> |>>>>>>>>> operating systems) > | > |> | Software-wise there isn't much difference. You are however confined > |> | to the > |> | emulated hardware of the virtual machine. > | > | > |> |>>>> I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd > |> |>>>> never be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk & > |> |>>>> defrag-- I don't think! > |> | > |> | No, the disk structure is emulated just as a real disk. You can > |> | scandisk, defrag, > |> | go in and muck around witht the partition tables or boot sectors, > |> | install a boot > |> | manager, muti-boot, whatever.. > | > | > |> That's an excellent emulation, then. But how can that be? Are you be > |> able to boot to DOS or to a Starup Diskette to do that? I thought > |> WinXP couldn't! Or is this done from some sort of CD boot to a > |> repair console? > | > | Yes, you can boot to a boot floppy or CD. Real or virtual. I've got a > | folder > | full of virtual boot media. (much faster booting than the real thing) > | > | It's a PC as far as the OS is concerned, and boots the same way. The > | virtual > | BIOS loads the MBR, the MBR loads the boot sector, which loads > | Windows. > | > | The virtual hadr disk is one big file on the host machine. Copying > | the file > | is analogous to cloning your HD. > > That's very impressive. But the BIOS is virtual too? So, even this BIOS > won't work, until you've boot to XP first & began the Win98 simulation? It's not XP, though I think that it the minimum requirement for VPC. VPC is software that emulates a PC. It runs as a "process" on the host OS. Not necessarily XP. You boot the virtual machine and install your OS, just as you do on a "real" machine. Even though your BIOS is burned into a chip, it is still just software code that loads when you boot. Virtualzation software just removes that "physical" hardware layer, and replaces it with "virtual" hardware. When the OS accesses the hardware it calls upon the virtual hardware and the virtual hardware returns the information pertaining to its own configuration, just as your "real" hardware does. It's all just a stream of bits and bytes. What's "hardware" to the OS anyway? > > |> |>>> > |> |>>> Would that really be necessary, considering you're only running > |> |>>> a session of it for a limited time, which ends when you quit > |> |>>> VPC? And maybe it uses something called a virtual disk (I > |> |>>> forgot the correct term), which disappears when you quit VPC. > |> |>> > |> |>> Huh? I thought it would be permanent. What good is a disappearing > |> |>> Win98? > |> |> > |> |> I think the session disappears - not that you have to reinstall > |> |> W98 each time! > |> | > |> | You have a choice when you shut down, Save changes, delete > |> | changes, or save and save state (think hibernate). Install your > |> | favorite > |> | program, shut > |> | down and save. Install some crap program, trash the OS, then shut > |> | down without a save. It's great for testing programs before > |> | putting them on your production machine. That's just one use of > |> | course. > |> > |> I thought it would be something like that-- not too bad! > |> > |> | Personally, I haven't had a real need to multi-boot, since > |> | installing VPC. > |> | > |> | > |> |>>>> Probably, lots of system settings would look weird-- if you > |> |>>>> could even find them! > |> | > |> | No, not at all. > |> > |> So... doing as I do here answering posts in this NG... all of my > |> Master Posts still would apply? All of the settings I point to for a > |> fix would be in the same places & mean the same thing? > | > | If it's software code, pretty much. Hardware is a different matter. > > OK. I was wondering whether I could still look things up & participate > in this NG from an XP virtual Win98. Sounds like it could be mostly > doable, but looking up hardware settings & Registry keys to post would > become problematic. The Windows registry on a virtual Windows install is the same as on a real machine. It is just that the hardware is fixed. There's a basic virtual video adapter, sound card, generic IDE adapter, network card. Reg-wise those values would be different than what your "real" system has. Just as your hardware is different than most other PCs. > > |>What about files such > |> as...?... > |> > |> HIMEM.SYS > |> Type: System file > |> Loc: C:\WINDOWS > |> Size: 33,181 bytes > |> Mod: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:22:00 PM > |> > |> Are they the same on a virtual machine? Can one enter a Windows DOS > |> session & would the commands be the same? > | > | Yes, and yes. > > Very impressive what they did. Connectix developed it. MS bought them and haven't done much with it since. VMWare is probably the leader in virtualazation, but is not free. Not for the cool stuff anyway ;-)
Guest Bill Blanton Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:OTODKczzIHA.5108@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > PCR wrote: >> Bill Blanton wrote: >>> "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message >>> news:ObJvEPpzIHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>> Bill Blanton wrote: >>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:ezMUmjZzIHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>>>>> PCR wrote: >>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>>>>>> PCR wrote: >>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>>>>>>>> PCR wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> PCR wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which >>>>>>>>>>>>>> allegedly allows you to run Win98SE (or some other >>>>>>>>>>>>>> operating systems) >>> >>>>> Software-wise there isn't much difference. You are however confined >>>>> to the emulated hardware of the virtual machine. >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! You'd >>>>>>>>> never be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a scandisk & >>>>>>>>> defrag-- I don't think! >>>>> >>>>> No, the disk structure is emulated just as a real disk. You can >>>>> scandisk, defrag, >>>>> go in and muck around witht the partition tables or boot sectors, >>>>> install a boot manager, muti-boot, whatever.. >>> >>> >>>> That's an excellent emulation, then. But how can that be? Are you be >>>> able to boot to DOS or to a Starup Diskette to do that? I thought >>>> WinXP couldn't! Or is this done from some sort of CD boot to a >>>> repair console? >>> >>> Yes, you can boot to a boot floppy or CD. Real or virtual. I've got a >>> folder full of virtual boot media. (much faster booting than the real thing) >>> >>> It's a PC as far as the OS is concerned, and boots the same way. The >>> virtual BIOS loads the MBR, the MBR loads the boot sector, which loads >>> Windows. >>> >>> The virtual hadr disk is one big file on the host machine. Copying >>> the file is analogous to cloning your HD. >> >> That's very impressive. But the BIOS is virtual too? > > Is it really? How so? Press/Tap the <DEL> key real quick as the virtual machine is booting to gain access to the BIOS ;-) There's not as much config in there as most BIOSs. But there is IDE boot order, IDE device config settings. password config, pwer management (IIRC).. some other basic stuff.... clock... > Well, maybe it's in the terminology used here ("virtual BIOS") -(whatever that means). > (Probably some part of RAM is set aside for updating some address pointers and data normally used by the regular BIOS, I guess, > like shadowing - but apparently(?) needing to be changed to run VPC, but I don't understand why that would even be necessary). Not really. The BIOS is just code that is burned into a chip, and is loaded into memory when you power on. And so, the virtual BIOS is code that runs and loads when you start the VPC. Load software interrupts, etc.. > >> So, even this BIOS >> won't work, until you've boot to XP first & began the Win98 simulation? > > Why wouldn't the BIOS work (or change, for that matter)? The real BIOS is hard-coded in ROM or EEPROM (AFAIK), and never > changes, UNLESS you flash update it. > >> Only then can you boot a Startup Disk to the virtual Win98, I guess. > > And that startup disk can be a Flash Drive, which is really nice and fast. > >> But, very impressive how XP has completely swallowed Win98 & even the >> BIOS! > > Swallowing the BIOS? I don't think so! Right, your own BIOS has nothing to do with a virtual emulation of the same.
Guest Bill Blanton Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message news:O%23tpmsA0IHA.1772@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > Bill in Co. wrote: > | PCR wrote: > |> Bill Blanton wrote: > |> So, even this BIOS > |> won't work, until you've boot to XP first & began the Win98 > |> simulation? > | > | Why wouldn't the BIOS work (or change, for that matter)? The real > | BIOS is hard-coded in ROM or EEPROM (AFAIK), and never changes, > | UNLESS you flash update it. > > I'm thinking... don't forget the Win98 partition is really just a file > that XP will expand. If you boot to the real BIOS, it won't see a > partition. Therefore, they had to create a virtual BIOS too-- in order > to make certain Win98 & DOS commands work! The Virtual BIOS is really the heart of the whole thing. As is a real BIOS on your own machine. > |> Only then can you boot a Startup Disk to the virtual Win98, I guess. > | > | And that startup disk can be a Flash Drive, which is really nice and > | fast. > > It depends on whether the virtual BIOS will allow it, I guess. Unfortunately VPC does not support USB. However VMWare does.
Guest Bill Blanton Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message news:O%23tpmsA0IHA.1772@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > Bill in Co. wrote: > | PCR wrote: > |> Bill Blanton wrote: > |> So, even this BIOS > |> won't work, until you've boot to XP first & began the Win98 > |> simulation? > | > | Why wouldn't the BIOS work (or change, for that matter)? The real > | BIOS is hard-coded in ROM or EEPROM (AFAIK), and never changes, > | UNLESS you flash update it. > > I'm thinking... don't forget the Win98 partition is really just a file > that XP will expand. If you boot to the real BIOS, it won't see a > partition. Therefore, they had to create a virtual BIOS too-- in order > to make certain Win98 & DOS commands work! The Virtual BIOS is really the heart of the whole thing. As is a real BIOS on your own machine. > |> Only then can you boot a Startup Disk to the virtual Win98, I guess. > | > | And that startup disk can be a Flash Drive, which is really nice and > | fast. > > It depends on whether the virtual BIOS will allow it, I guess. Unfortunately VPC does not support USB. However VMWare does.
Guest PCR Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Re: Turmoil Continues in XP land Bill Blanton wrote: | "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message | news:ur%23M2SyzIHA.4040@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... |> Bill Blanton wrote: |> | "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message |> | news:ObJvEPpzIHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... |> |> Bill Blanton wrote: |> |> | "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message |> |> | news:ezMUmjZzIHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... |> |> |> PCR wrote: |> |> |>> Bill in Co. wrote: |> |> |>>> PCR wrote: |> |> |>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |> |> |>>>>> PCR wrote: |> |> |>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |> |> |>>>>>>> PCR wrote: |> |> |>>>>>>>> Bill in Co. wrote: |> | |> |> |>>>>>>>>> One can also install Microsoft's Virtual PC, which |> |> |>>>>>>>>> allegedly allows you to run Win98SE (or some other |> |> |>>>>>>>>> operating systems) |> | |> |> | Software-wise there isn't much difference. You are however |> |> | confined to the |> |> | emulated hardware of the virtual machine. |> | |> | |> |> |>>>> I think the partition would be fake-- just a simulation! |> |> |>>>> You'd never be able to do normal maintenance on it, like a |> |> |>>>> scandisk & defrag-- I don't think! |> |> | |> |> | No, the disk structure is emulated just as a real disk. You can |> |> | scandisk, defrag, |> |> | go in and muck around witht the partition tables or boot |> |> | sectors, install a boot |> |> | manager, muti-boot, whatever.. |> | |> | |> |> That's an excellent emulation, then. But how can that be? Are you |> |> be able to boot to DOS or to a Starup Diskette to do that? I |> |> thought WinXP couldn't! Or is this done from some sort of CD boot |> |> to a repair console? |> | |> | Yes, you can boot to a boot floppy or CD. Real or virtual. I've |> | got a folder |> | full of virtual boot media. (much faster booting than the real |> | thing) |> | |> | It's a PC as far as the OS is concerned, and boots the same way. |> | The virtual |> | BIOS loads the MBR, the MBR loads the boot sector, which loads |> | Windows. |> | |> | The virtual hadr disk is one big file on the host machine. Copying |> | the file |> | is analogous to cloning your HD. |> |> That's very impressive. But the BIOS is virtual too? So, even this |> BIOS won't work, until you've boot to XP first & began the Win98 |> simulation? | | It's not XP, though I think that it the minimum requirement for VPC. | VPC | is software that emulates a PC. It runs as a "process" on the host OS. | Not necessarily XP. I guess the only other choice would be Vista, then, for now. But, whichever it is, it must boot first to set up (or allow VPC to set up?) the process that is VPC. I suppose the host OS continues to run-- so, you now have two machines running at once & can click between the two? | You boot the virtual machine and install your OS, just as you do on a | "real" | machine. Hmm. Amazing. I would have thought the VPC came with Win98 pre-installed. | Even though your BIOS is burned into a chip, it is still just | software code | that loads when you boot. Of course, you know, not all BIOS code is the same. Therefore, some recognize devices (maybe even the MB?) that others do not & have capabilities (large HDD support, multi-booting, etc.) that others do not. Normally, one wouldn't want to put another machine's BIOS into his! | Virtualzation software just removes that "physical" hardware layer, | and | replaces it with "virtual" hardware. This virtual BIOS that VPC supplies-- doesn't it need to be specific to the machine that it will run on? I see elsewhere you said... "Unfortunately VPC does not support USB." "There's not as much config in there as most BIOSs. But there is IDE boot order, IDE device config settings. password config, pwer management (IIRC).. some other basic stuff.... clock..." Too bad they didn't write it to actually use the BIOS that is installed in the machine or to make a copy & use the copy (as I think Colorado speculated it might be doing). Then, it would have the full capabilities-- & no one would have to give up his flash drive! | When the OS accesses the hardware it calls upon the | virtual hardware and the virtual hardware returns the information | pertaining to its own configuration, just as your "real" hardware | does. | It's all just a stream of bits and bytes. What's "hardware" to the OS | anyway? Unfortunately, though, it seems VPC has no bits for USB-- Colorado is chagrinned! He loves his flash drive! |> |> |> |>>> |> |> |>>> Would that really be necessary, considering you're only |> |> |>>> running a session of it for a limited time, which ends when |> |> |>>> you quit VPC? And maybe it uses something called a virtual |> |> |>>> disk (I forgot the correct term), which disappears when you |> |> |>>> quit VPC. |> |> |>> |> |> |>> Huh? I thought it would be permanent. What good is a |> |> |>> disappearing Win98? |> |> |> |> |> |> I think the session disappears - not that you have to reinstall |> |> |> W98 each time! |> |> | |> |> | You have a choice when you shut down, Save changes, delete |> |> | changes, or save and save state (think hibernate). Install your |> |> | favorite |> |> | program, shut |> |> | down and save. Install some crap program, trash the OS, then |> |> | shut down without a save. It's great for testing programs before |> |> | putting them on your production machine. That's just one use of |> |> | course. |> |> |> |> I thought it would be something like that-- not too bad! |> |> |> |> | Personally, I haven't had a real need to multi-boot, since |> |> | installing VPC. |> |> | |> |> | |> |> |>>>> Probably, lots of system settings would look weird-- if you |> |> |>>>> could even find them! |> |> | |> |> | No, not at all. |> |> |> |> So... doing as I do here answering posts in this NG... all of my |> |> Master Posts still would apply? All of the settings I point to |> |> for a fix would be in the same places & mean the same thing? |> | |> | If it's software code, pretty much. Hardware is a different matter. |> |> OK. I was wondering whether I could still look things up & |> participate in this NG from an XP virtual Win98. Sounds like it |> could be mostly doable, but looking up hardware settings & Registry |> keys to post would become problematic. | | | The Windows registry on a virtual Windows install is the same as on a | real | machine. | | It is just that the hardware is fixed. There's a basic virtual video | adapter, | sound card, generic IDE adapter, network card. Reg-wise those values | would be | different than what your "real" system has. Just as your hardware is | different than | most other PCs. Too bad the VPC wouldn't feed it real information from what is actually plugged into the XP/Vista machine. BUT-- I'm sure that is because Win98 may not have drivers to run some of them. |> |> |>What about files such |> |> as...?... |> |> |> |> HIMEM.SYS |> |> Type: System file |> |> Loc: C:\WINDOWS |> |> Size: 33,181 bytes |> |> Mod: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:22:00 PM |> |> |> |> Are they the same on a virtual machine? Can one enter a Windows |> |> DOS session & would the commands be the same? |> | |> | Yes, and yes. |> |> Very impressive what they did. | | Connectix developed it. MS bought them and haven't done much with it | since. | VMWare is probably the leader in virtualazation, but is not free. Not | for the cool stuff anyway ;-) It really is pretty amazing as is. Thanks for all of this information, Blanton. It's good to see you still will pop into this NG! -- Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR pcrrcp@netzero.net
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