Microsoft Taking Official Petitions to Keep XP Alive

June 1, 2008

Re: Microsoft Taking Official Petitions to Keep XP Alive

"Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

news:OHz0k.6193$Ri.2725@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...

> Microsoft of course. If you don't mind losing your money, buy apple.

Don't own either. But if I did, would be Apple.

Think, if you bought Apple (AAPL) a year ago, it is up over 60%.

Think, if you bought Microsoft (MSFT) a year ago, it is down 10% of so.

Even looks like Red hat has turned around this year.

June 1, 2008

Re: Microsoft Taking Official Petitions to Keep XP Alive

And you would be trapped.

"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message

news:e6B0k.116$ze2.109@pd7urf1no...

>

> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

> news:OHz0k.6193$Ri.2725@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...

>

>> Microsoft of course. If you don't mind losing your money, buy apple.

>

> Don't own either. But if I did, would be Apple.

>

> Think, if you bought Apple (AAPL) a year ago, it is up over 60%.

>

> Think, if you bought Microsoft (MSFT) a year ago, it is down 10% of so.

>

> Even looks like Red hat has turned around this year.

>

June 1, 2008

Re: Microsoft Taking Official Petitions to Keep XP Alive

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 16:42:52 GMT, "Canuck57"

<dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote:

>Point still remains, XP is seasoned, stable and Microsoft wants to

>discontinue its most accepted product? Marketing should be shot. That is

>like Coke saying no more Coke Classic. They tried that, once.

>What they should do is have an XP SP4 with a load of new drivers in it to

>keep it current and stable. Let user downgrade, Vistax64->XP64 included.

>This is after all what the market is telling Microsoft.

Microsoft doesn't care about stability or the fact that each new OS

requires more and more HP to run effectively. Otherwise there would be

an SP4 and/or there would be official upgrade releases that added new

features. Instead, we get a bug ridden, driver lacking, software

incompatible, new OS every few years. Face it: they care only about

selling you a new OS.

But, the problem for them is that there are really not that many new

features to add to an OS. Look at a comparison of 2000, to XP, to

Vista. What have they really added in terms of user features? VPN? I'm

at a loss to find anything else that's more than a refinement on the

user side. On the system side, they've simply gobbled more HP to

deliver the same set of user features (that's not a feature, it's a

major flaw).

I long for a return to the old days, when OS vendors built an

operating system then continually refined it in each release to make

it better. Wholesale replacement was not an option because customers

demanded stability and reduced life cycle costs. Over time, we ended

up with some incredibly stable, bug free, solid, dependable OS's. You

can't do that if you keep replacing your code wholesale.

>XP can compete with Linux and do well, but Vista....nada. Vista is like the

>Titanic after the water was leaking in. Vista drives people to Apple and

>Linux. It will be slow at first, but will pick up as word spreads. See Eee

>PC sales....suppliers can't keep the Linux varieties in stock.

Not to worry. Windows 7 will fix everything! (Note sarcasm, see above,

note repeat cycle).

June 1, 2008

Re: Microsoft Taking Official Petitions to Keep XP Alive

"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message

news:vqh544525eginmae9foba0ksll5pts1kul@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 11:50:16 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP"

> <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote:

>

>>"Alias" <iamalias@NOSPAMPLEASEgmail.com> wrote in message

>

>>> No, Mike, you don't understand the whole picture. Ubuntu and other

>>> versions of Linux are taking off. If you can joggle your poor memory a

>>> bit, when XP came out, you didn't see *any* posts about Linux in the XP

>>> General newsgroup. No media was covering it and practically no major OEM

>>> was offering it preinstalled. All that's changed and the reason is that

>>> distros like Ubuntu are so user friendly, easy to install and easy to

>>> configure and tweak.

>>>

>>> Alias

>>

>>For now Linux is seeing better times, but Vista has hoisted the hardware

>>requirements, and in a couple of years from now, many will have upgraded

>>their computers. Vista will have improved enough that it is the force to

>>be

>>reckoned with, and then Windows 7 will release, easily able to run on the

>>same hardware as Vista.

>

> Vista will have improved enough?

>

> Funny to watch fanboys change their tune as they constantly move the

> goal posts. I though Vista was already the greatest version of Windows

> ever. If so, why does it need to improve?

>

> After all that was the song you guys were humming over a year ago.

> However now that Vista has been out awhile and proved to be just

> another bloated, poorly implemented, bug riddled, sluggish pile of

> coding mistakes like every prior version of Windows before it was, you

> now say wait to the next version. I'll say one thing good about you

> Mike, you sure know how to repeat the party line issued from Redmond.

>

> Microsoft has been saying the same thing for over two decades... just

> wait for the next version of Windows, it will knock your socks off.

> Sure, right. Only problem is I like tens of millions of others are

> tired of waiting and being disappointed over and over again. People

> are more seriously starting to look at alternatives to Windows.

>

>>In the meantime, Linux will make inroads in third world countries where

>>cheap equipment is all that can be afforded.

>

> You really are clueless and dense on world events aren't you. Would

> you consider China third world? Are you sitting down? Right now China

> has over 300,000,000 MIDDLE CLASS citizens and that number is growing

> at explosive rates. That's as many middle class as the entire

> population of the United States. Are you aware Russia soon might have

> more millionaires then there are in the United States? Their middle

> class is exploding too. While Windows "sales" in China is a drop in

> the bucket they already have more Internet users than in the United

> States. Hint: Those people are running all those computers on

> something, and it isn't paid for copies of Windows.

>

> The reality is Microsoft's time in the sun is fading. That is why

> Ballmer tried, but failed to take over Yahoo, to start building a new

> cash stream since people are fed-up giving Microsoft piles of money

> for one broken OS version after another.

>

> Microsoft's other cash cow Office, has been equaled or surpassed by

> FREE Office alternatives. That's not good news for Microsoft either.

> Their two biggest product lines, Windows and Office are showing signs

> of cracking.

>

> You know what the biggest sign of Microsoft's pending doom really is?

>

> Simple. That would be Bill Gates founder getting ready to throw in the

> towel. His belly no longer burns for Microsoft. He's more than willing

> to give Microsoft over to flimflam artists like Ballmer while he

> starts to give away his billions. That surely can't be good for

> Microsoft's future. No, not when the founder only 53 year old decides

> he's had enough. Maybe he sees the writing on the wall clearer than

> anybody.

Bill Gates might be setting himself up for doing a Dell or Jobs type

comeback.

But in Bill's case, he maybe too rich to care. Or with Microsoft they

simply are not competitive any longer.

BTW, well put.

June 1, 2008

Re: Microsoft Taking Official Petitions to Keep XP Alive

Aren't YOU keeping up with technology. Did you buy a plasma or LCD TV set.

Are you going digital?

Crippled shareware indeed. I don't use virus programs either. I don't shell

out hundreds of bucks every 3 or 4 years. Your words not mine. If you do

that's your business. Media playthings?? Are you a child?

"Dave" <nospam@biteme.com> wrote in message

news:C4-dnWOlhIXJQN_VnZ2dnUVZ_rbinZ2d@earthlink.com...

> Unknown wrote:

>> Your argument is totally ridiculous. The primary reason for Microsoft's

>> popularity is simply because it is so flexible.

>> What do you want your computer to do? Microsoft's OS does it. Who uses

>> Microsoft's OS? Everyone. Corporations and businesses alike.

>> Can't you get that through your head?

>

> Corporations AND businesses? What's Google use? Are they neither?

>

> Until you break free from the uptight and paranoid world of crippled

> shareware and continuous virus scans; from having to shell out a hundred

> bucks every 3 or 4 years for a new OS (then hundreds more for the

> horsepower to run them); from having to pay hundreds of dollars extra for

> compatible word processors and media playthings; you'll never understand.

June 1, 2008

Re: Microsoft Taking Official Petitions to Keep XP Alive

You mean?

#define VISTA worstOf(CE, ME, NT)

#define WIN7 regurgitate(VISTA)

I have programmed more code than you know. But stocks is something I am

into. Right now my logic for the last 4 months has been:

if (MSFT) {

sellStock(MSFT);

buyStock(RHT);

cout << profit;

exit(0);

Hahaha.

"Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

news:EkA0k.6204$Ri.1247@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...

> You apparently have no business savvy. And I might add , absolutely zero

> programming experience.

> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message

> news:n%z0k.54$ze2.0@pd7urf1no...

>>

>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message

>> news:OpeRDj%23wIHA.4772@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>

>>>> Mind you, Vista is a bad batch of soup, the best place is the

>>>> garborator.

>>>

>>> You people don't give up easily, do you. This argument has been raging

>>> for years, but only at user level mainly because users don't understand

>>> the whole picture.

>>

>> Most people who spend $1000 for a nice system for home don't know how to

>> replace or dual boot and install another OS. They just assume the OS is

>> a native part of the computer. WinMe, I gave it about the same amount of

>> time. I gave OS2 about the same too. Loved OS2, but the driver support

>> was just too bad for it to be useful. And I get calls from non-tech

>> friends and relatives, unanimous, Vista is not the best.

>>

>> Users (technical or not) understand the _full_ picture absolutely. For

>> without users, there would be absolutely no need for Microsoft.

>> Microsoft is in a false sense of security because of the monopoly

>> position with PC vendors, but with Eee PC (Linux) and a hoard of new

>> systems like it the base is crumbling.

>>

>> Problem is Redmond wants to lead myopically and push customers, not

>> service their needs. They want to pump profits in a commodity market by

>> fast regurgitation of old tech making it unstable. And are now failing.

>> It will be slow to start, like the mainframe. But Microsoft zenith has

>> passed if they don't change course fast.

>>

>> People are tired of the crash learn of big changes. If they have to, it

>> had better be cheap.

>>

>> Businesses are balking at the fast expensive refresh cycle. They expect

>> a 2-3 year old device to work with a PC today. This is NOT unreasonable.

>> Would you buy a car you couldn't get tires or spare parts for in as

>> little as 3 years? Or a car that needed a major over haul every 3 years?

>> This is why many businesses still run W2000.

>>

>> Software, including the OS needs to be a series of smaller, more planned

>> and evolutionary steps. Vista is a complete failure in this regard.

>> Thus, continuous improvement of unfinished Vista is improbable. Just

>> minimal patchwork. It is in "maintenance" mode while everyone runs off

>> to Win 7.

>>

>> A few suggestions to Microsoft:

>>

>> We know you know your software market has hits it's elasticity of growth

>> in dollars and cents. Software, including the OS is now going to follow

>> hardware as a commodity item. Microsoft aught to gear for this now, and

>> not wait for 4 quarters of declining revenue to hear the wake up call.

>>

>> Evolve the OS with compatibility in mind, perhaps on a subscription

>> basis. But don't expect $300/3 years for Vista. It needs to be like

>> $20/year tops. When you buy a PC it is prepaid for 3 years, like a car

>> warranty. Ditto MS-Office. Only rich fools go out and buy the full

>> MS-Office ultimate.

>>

>> Let the user chose, loose the WeSaySo corporation attitude. Users know

>> what they want. This means XP will not die until the users don't want it

>> any more. Even Ford still makes a Taurus. And due to it's popularity

>> and longevity, I can still get parts for it 12 years later.

>>

>> Simplify licensing. Your own people don't understand it very well. Quit

>> packaging a product like Vista 17 different ways confusing everyone. An

>> OS isn't a Lamborghini. And it will never sell like it either.

>>

>

June 1, 2008

Re: Microsoft Taking Official Petitions to Keep XP Alive

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 12:27:39 -0500, Charlie Tame <charlie@tames.net>

wrote:

>Microsoft does need to recognize that Linux IS getting much more user

>friendly, and is therefore a viable alternative for many of these older

>machines that MS and the OEMs want us to replace with Vista machines.

>They will not all get thrown away, and many that get "Salvaged" won't

>have the OEM XP disks with them so when the OS breaks, there's a

>perfectly usable free option. In some ways having the Vista specs too

>high to run on them may be a bad thing for MS.

What I don't get is why Microsoft seems so dead set on killing off XP.

There's nothing wrong from a business standpoint of offering both...

as a choice. People that just got to have the "latest and greatest"

could go with Vista then buy some expensive hardware it needs to go

with it, others wanting a new machine, but a basic no frills model

could opt for XP. Sounds like a win, win to me.

From where I sit one of the biggest problems Microsoft faces is

Ballmer. He's not that well liked on the street (Wall street), he's

lost tons of respect from institutional investors for screwing up the

Yahoo deal and most smaller investors think he's a Bozo, and who can

blame them?

When you own stock in a Fortune 500 company and the CEO dances around

on stage like he's having a bad LSD trip, why would you trust him to

lead the company in the right direction? The guy doesn't even know how

to close a deal for a much smaller company (Yahoo) which by now, if

Microsoft really thinks they need it for the future could have started

a hostile takeover bid and be well on the way to closing the deal. But

no, instead Microsoft's stock continues to slowly slide South.

If Microsoft wants to get some respect back, get rid of the Ballmer

clown.

June 1, 2008

Re: Microsoft Taking Official Petitions to Keep XP Alive

"Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message

news:YeA0k.6202$Ri.533@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...

> Your argument is totally ridiculous. The primary reason for Microsoft's

> popularity is simply because it is so flexible.

> What do you want your computer to do? Microsoft's OS does it. Who uses

> Microsoft's OS? Everyone. Corporations and businesses alike.

> Can't you get that through your head?

You must be a newbie to the business. This is just history repeating

itself.

Times have changed before. Microsoft, unless it changes it's ways will be

the next Novell. BTW, Novell does sell Linux SUSE and would not doubt

NetWare, but is far behind RHT. In the desktop, I wouldn't doubt Ubuntu has

eclipsed SUSE.

Lets list some tech companies that have seen better days, or specifically

major chunck of their business activitied evaporated in market share

ownership, many which were heavy into workstations:

Digital

Compaq

Sperry/UNIVAC

Novell

NorTel

Bell Labs

BaaN

IBM (PC, mainframes and workstations, they evolved to services)

Amdahl

Wyse

Tandy/Radio Shack

Apple (as in II and IIe but recovering)

Commodore (PET, C64)

Data General

Motorola (MC6802 or MC6809 anyone?)

Zilog

Zerox/PARC

SCO (Yep)

(more that I have missed for sure)

Even Linux has road kill. Survival of the fitest.

Now I am not saying Microsoft is going out of business. I am saying it's

price elasticity is shot to hell, innovation has peeked, and market share in

the total market is shrinking. Linux chewing away at the bottom, and Apple

chewing away at the top represents a major problem to future business growth

of Microsoft. Market maturization, commoditization and saturation too.

With Vista, there is a market brand damage and the Microsoft can do no wrong

attitude is under more pressure than ever before. This is likley going to

accelerate.

I will predict Q3 and more so Q4 financial reports this year is not going to

be nice for MSFT as it has to spin a new marketing model to grow. Which is

what the purchase of Yahoo was all about. Bill and Steve know their market

predicament and MSFT futures or they would have made such an offer. MSNBC

is another. MSFT is a 2 trick pony, MS-Windows and MS-Office.

Both which can now be economically replaced with FLOSS.

> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message

> news:85v0k.179962$rd2.36576@pd7urf3no...

>>

>> "Billy Smith" <chungkingchungking@yahoo.com> wrote in message

>> news:y7qdnXLyX-hJmt_VnZ2dnUVZ_tLinZ2d@earthlink.com...

>>>

>>> "Dave" <nospam@biteme.com> wrote in message

>>> news:4841F669.4020705@biteme.com...

>>>> Billy Smith wrote:

>>>>>

>>>> How do you explain this?

>>>>

>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Top500_OS.png

>>>

>>> What it says to me is that your corporate and university level people

>>> working with supercomputers are going to Linux versus Unix or in the

>>> case of Microsoft they aren't going to use it. Thats doesn't mean that

>>> Microsoft makes a bad product for the general consumer market. Linux

>>> does have its use and one of its uses is that it tends to be rather fast

>>> for an operating system. However, if you consider speed anything you

>>> should use Linux. Yet when you use a wide variety of PC appplications,

>>> you will find that they aren't usable in Linux format. You can partition

>>> your drive to use both Microsoft based stuff and Linux or you can stick

>>> with what you know.

>>> For most people, they are not going to use Linux because A: There is no

>>> need for using it and B: They don't have the capability to babysit Linux

>>> based systems. The average computer science grad or expert in the

>>> computer field very well might get some usage out of it. For most

>>> people, they are content in using Microsoft Office or whatever works for

>>> plug and play applications.

>>>

>>> Theyr'e not going to waste their time formatting their hard drive to run

>>> a program and system that while being faster doesn't have the applicable

>>> uses that a Microsoft system has. The Microsoft systems have that

>>> advantage because you can put in any XP or Vista or 98 based software of

>>> which I have at least one in each operating system. You can put in any

>>> program that is made for that system and use it. That cannot be said for

>>> converting your system to Linux no matter how much faster it may be. Its

>>> not really worth the time for most people

>>>

>>> If you want to put Linux and make it customizable to your system that

>>> works for those applications then go for it.. For the general computer

>>> user that exists in the general public, then most people go for

>>> Microsoft. They're not going to use Linux and I would venture than

>>> Microsoft is much more recognizable than what Linux has been or probably

>>> will ever be.

>>>

>>> Linux is still at the infancy state of the computer realm. Its not going

>>> to catch on all that much for the hundreds of millions of computer

>>> users.

>>>

>>> Thats why Mac will never be a viable competitor to Microsoft. They're

>>> still stuck in the proprietary and infant stage. Just like the Iphone. I

>>> would have actually been interested in getting an Iphone but when I have

>>> to use ATT for service, they can forget it. I used to have Cingular and

>>> it was a joke for phone service but also their customer service section

>>> was incompetent at best. I can actually pay my bill through Verizon and

>>> know what I actually owe. Nice concept isnt it.

>>>

>>> Macs will never become more than fancy overpriced boxes for graphics

>>> users, game players, etc. You never see that many Macs ever used for

>>> servers, internet commerce, etc. Thats why you can go to the Apple store

>>> here in Louisville and find out that a Mac will cost you 1500 to 2000

>>> dollars when a basic Vista/XP computer will net you half those amounts.

>>> When Apple learns to market their computers and systems correctly and

>>> produce something worth really having, then they will take off. Until

>>> then, they don't have a prayer competition wise.

>>

>> If you mean is Linux finished growing up and fully mature? Heck no, it

>> has only begun. I suspect it will be evolving well past my lifetime.

>>

>> Linux is vastly superior to Vista in most ways, you bet. I place it just

>> on the heals of XP right now but ahead of Vista. I will grant, XP is

>> quite mature, but stagnant. Where as Linux is still, and will always

>> perpetually evolve.

>>

>> The Linux maturity is going to be evolutionary and not the dump

>> everything change now you see with Microsoft products. Where as

>> Microsoft has a grand-batch mentality. The later can't get continuous

>> improvement, can't evolve. Take Vista, is now in maintenance mode. Its

>> active development has ceased! Understand that. They all moved on to

>> Win 7 for the next disruption.

>>

>> Mind you, Vista is a bad batch of soup, the best place is the garborator.

>>

>

June 1, 2008

Re: Microsoft Taking Official Petitions to Keep XP Alive

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 11:38:01 -0500, "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom>

wrote:

>Your argument is totally ridiculous. The primary reason for Microsoft's

>popularity is simply because it is so flexible.

>What do you want your computer to do? Microsoft's OS does it.

I had no idea people wanted their systems to crash so often.

June 1, 2008

Re: Microsoft Taking Official Petitions to Keep XP Alive

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 11:40:54 -0500, "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom>

wrote:

>What a bunch of misguided trash.

Oh I see, so misguided you couldn't counter a single point.

You did manage to top post though. Figures.

June 1, 2008

Re: Microsoft Taking Official Petitions to Keep XP Alive

"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message

news:6up544588gtj61go3tkposmsire7i4q4o0@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 12:27:39 -0500, Charlie Tame <charlie@tames.net>

> wrote:

>

>>Microsoft does need to recognize that Linux IS getting much more user

>>friendly, and is therefore a viable alternative for many of these older

>>machines that MS and the OEMs want us to replace with Vista machines.

>>They will not all get thrown away, and many that get "Salvaged" won't

>>have the OEM XP disks with them so when the OS breaks, there's a

>>perfectly usable free option. In some ways having the Vista specs too

>>high to run on them may be a bad thing for MS.

>

> What I don't get is why Microsoft seems so dead set on killing off XP.

> There's nothing wrong from a business standpoint of offering both...

> as a choice. People that just got to have the "latest and greatest"

> could go with Vista then buy some expensive hardware it needs to go

> with it, others wanting a new machine, but a basic no frills model

> could opt for XP. Sounds like a win, win to me.

>

> From where I sit one of the biggest problems Microsoft faces is

> Ballmer. He's not that well liked on the street (Wall street), he's

> lost tons of respect from institutional investors for screwing up the

> Yahoo deal and most smaller investors think he's a Bozo, and who can

> blame them?

>

> When you own stock in a Fortune 500 company and the CEO dances around

> on stage like he's having a bad LSD trip, why would you trust him to

> lead the company in the right direction? The guy doesn't even know how

> to close a deal for a much smaller company (Yahoo) which by now, if

> Microsoft really thinks they need it for the future could have started

> a hostile takeover bid and be well on the way to closing the deal. But

> no, instead Microsoft's stock continues to slowly slide South.

>

> If Microsoft wants to get some respect back, get rid of the Ballmer

> clown.

That would be a good start. But more will be needed. While you and I can

load Linux, most of the users out there would have problems loading XP from

Microsoft in that they would have to do their own XP integration to

downgrade. Which, makes them stuck in Vista. And if stuck in Vista and not

happy about it, waiting 2-3 years for Win 7 isn't going to do Microsoft any

good.

Microsoft should revitalise the driver sets for XP, and offer down grades

for $10 S&H.

June 1, 2008