Guest Canuck57 Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: XP Death Watch "Hayden Kirk" <hayden@mobilepc.co.nz> wrote in message news:Ot5dobdzIHA.5108@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >I sell Vista to many businesses. > > They don't reject it at all. Just stop using min speced hardware, or > hardware under min spec. That's the reason it runs so slow. My customers > want a good 64bit system. 64bit Vista is a lot better than 64bit XP. > > Do some homework, half of you sound like you haven't got a clue. > > - Hayden I loaded 64 bit Ubuntu on it. Works great.
Guest Canuck57 Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: XP Death Watch "DS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.com> wrote in message news:4853ccec$0$30195$4c368faf@roadrunner.com... > On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 05:25:36 +0000, the wharf rat wrote: > >> In article <Ot5dobdzIHA.5108@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>, Hayden Kirk >> <hayden@mobilepc.co.nz> wrote: >>> >>>My customers want a good 64bit system. >> >> Why? > > Possibly because that is what he recommends to them. > > For instance, SolidWorks resellers recommend a 64 bit system to their > users strictly based on being able to use more than 3+ gigs of RAM for > the application. Good choice. Each version of MS-Windows is bigger, and there are those that consider 3GB a minimum for Vista. Win7? No one knows, but 3GB might be the minimum.
Guest Canuck57 Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: XP Death Watch "Clear Windows" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message news:4853e0f0$1@newsgate.x-privat.org... > He (Hayden Kirk) is stupid.... > > I could recommend a hummer jeep for everyone, but the extra cost makes no > sense for people in the city... > Sure it could travel any terrain but at what cost? > > Having a super duper 64 bit 4 core 8 gb system just so vista can work is > crazy.. Most of that power goes to the OS itself anyway.. I have a super dupper 4 core 8GB system, and my 7 year old laptop running either Linux or XP copies faster over the network or disk to disk. Big a$$ed systems help a lot, but their is a lot of waste of processing going in. Vista is not very efficient inside. While grandma reading email may not notice, performance users do. > Vista is poorly designed and that's why its hated worldwide by billions. > > the world it turning to more efficient, greener, less power hungry, > faster, better designed OS's and computers > > Vista is the last of its kind... a freak of nature... a dinosaur that will > be exhibited in a museum as the biggest mistake MS ever made. Yep, the next generation of economical systems like EeePC have no room for Vista requirements nor its pricing. That is why Microsoft had to selectively allow resale of XP to EeePCs. There marketing and engineering blew the mark on what users want and had to backpeddle on a total XP retirement plan. But still, EeePC continues to do quite well on the Linux version sales, the cat is out of the bag. While Dell touted Linux support, it has half a$$ed and business only. Asus and others, different story.
Guest Canuck57 Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: XP Death Watch "Rex Ballard" <rex.ballard@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e369fd57-0eb0-4cc2-ab6e-177719416934@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > On Jun 13, 8:52 pm, cheley_bonstel...@live.com wrote: >> XP Death Watch >> http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/05/27/XP-deathwatch-T-minus-five-... >> >> Even though it has had its own problems of late, Windows XP remains >> the most-used version of Windows. The newest data from Web metrics >> vendor Net Applications, for example, >> pegs XP as driving 73 percent of the personal computers that went >> online last month, >> >> five times the nearest competitor, Microsoft's own Windows Vista. >> >> Which is why an impending deadline five weeks from today is important. > > Don't count on it. > >> According to Microsoft, June 30 is the last day it will permit >> retailers and OEMs to sell >> the nearly seven-year-old operating system. > > Microsoft may be slitting their own throat. The OEMs are still > negotiating with Microsoft and it's possible that if Microsoft refuses > to deal, or attempts to force the shift to Vista too aggressively, > that the OEMs will respond much the same way that Windows NT server > customers responded when Microsoft tried to force them into switching > to Windows 2003. Instead of being a massive migration worth > $billions, many corporations realized that they were being herded into > yet a another slaughterhouse, and opted to switch as many servers as > they possibly could to Linux, or Unix, including AIX, Solaris, and > HP_UX. Except this time they did it to the consumer market too. One that will hurt even more. Businesses will buy whatever the user skills coming into work have. The CEO/CFO/shareholders do not care which OS it is, which one can they use and how much does it cost. On both fronts, Microsoft generated a long term rethinking of what makes a good desktop OS. Many are switching. If Microsoft does not stem the trend, give it 5 years and it will not be pretty for them. Mind you, I don't think there is much they can do. PCs are becoming appliances with appliance pricing. Microsoft pricing isn't going to keep it's "monopoly" much longer. As a good chuck of this is about the pricing. Even if Vista ran on a EeePC, why would I pay more for the OS than the PC? Vista is Microsoft's first big step to the road to hell.
Guest Canuck57 Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: XP Death Watch "Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message news:1497069.Lp6T5hALED@schestowitz.com... > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > ____/ Rex Ballard on Saturday 14 June 2008 08:07 : \____ > >>> Which is why an impending deadline five weeks from today is important. >> >> Don't count on it. > > They enable upgrades to XP now, provided that you 'upgrade' your Vista > (edition-wise). Another fine example of double-dipping to game sales > statistics and milk innocent users, who can -- and probably will -- pay > extra > for XP. Think, they are working on the triple/quad dip. Get Win7 out. Some users will invariable do: 1) Buy a system with Basic/Premium Vista sub version 2) Upgrade to Ultimate, still does not work right 3) Buy a XP and install it, happy until SP4 quirks it 4) Win 7 comes, need to have a Win7 only app, buy Win7 While not every user will follow above, each of above represents a purchase or upgrade. The above could occur in 3 short years or less.
Guest Hadron Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: XP Death Watch "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> writes: > "Clear Windows" <carlferedeck@wizzmail.com> wrote in message > news:4853e0f0$1@newsgate.x-privat.org... >> He (Hayden Kirk) is stupid.... >> >> I could recommend a hummer jeep for everyone, but the extra cost makes no >> sense for people in the city... >> Sure it could travel any terrain but at what cost? >> >> Having a super duper 64 bit 4 core 8 gb system just so vista can work is >> crazy.. Most of that power goes to the OS itself anyway.. > > I have a super dupper 4 core 8GB system, and my 7 year old laptop running > either Linux or XP copies faster over the network or disk to disk. Big > a$$ed systems help a lot, but their is a lot of waste of processing > going ^^^^^ > in. Vista is not very efficient inside. While grandma reading email may > not notice, performance users do. Seriously, are you trying to sound so stupid on purpose in order to hide your other nym? > >> Vista is poorly designed and that's why its hated worldwide by billions. >> >> the world it turning to more efficient, greener, less power hungry, >> faster, better designed OS's and computers >> >> Vista is the last of its kind... a freak of nature... a dinosaur that will >> be exhibited in a museum as the biggest mistake MS ever made. > > Yep, the next generation of economical systems like EeePC have no room for > Vista requirements nor its pricing. That is why Microsoft had to selectively > allow resale of XP to EeePCs. There marketing and engineering blew > the mark ^^^^^ > on what users want and had to backpeddle on a total XP retirement > plan. You're the only person in the history of usenet who managed to mix up "there" and "their" to be wrong twice in the same post. > > But still, EeePC continues to do quite well on the Linux version sales, the > cat is out of the bag. While Dell touted Linux support, it has half a$$ed > and business only. Asus and others, different story. > You have these figures? -- "Give it up because going on the offensive, and you are quite offensive, is not going to cover up your trolling and nym shifting blunders no matter now many times you re-post the same text." -- "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_n_straw@gmail.com> in comp.os.linux.advocacy
Guest Canuck57 Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: XP Death Watch "Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> wrote in message news:g33kfp$9la$1@registered.motzarella.org... >> But still, EeePC continues to do quite well on the Linux version sales, >> the >> cat is out of the bag. While Dell touted Linux support, it has half >> a$$ed >> and business only. Asus and others, different story. >> > > You have these figures? Read and weep. http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,143402-pg,1/article.html Asus initially release the Eee PC line with Linux only. So, the market share in this segment was 100%. Which is why MS had to get an OS fast, and Vista, well, super fat and too big. So, take a current view of a ratio of 6:4, that is a 40% market share for Linux. A tad bit higher than MS-fanboys would like to admit. Expecting to sell 2 million Linux ones this year alone, not including last years sales. OLPC is 100% Linux. I don't believe this has changed. Amazon seems to have trouble keeping the Eee PC Linux ones in stock, maybe Asus underestimated Linux? At least in that venue Linux makes it top list more than XP for the Eee PC, go figure. Can't see the writing? Big, fat, expensive bloated low compatibility operating systems are generally on the way out. Except for high end Apple Macs, which too record increased sales. You know Microsoft isn't going to want to have Asus publish it's real sales numbers of Linux versus XP. Linux growth will astound many.
Guest Charlie Tame Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: So help save Windows XP Re: So help save Windows XP Canuck57 wrote: > "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message > news:eEmRRllzIHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>> Too late: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx >> >> I disagree a bit with that, the crucial factor was always extending >> support. Another 6 years is a pretty good achievement in terms of getting >> a big corporation to listen to customers. So instead of too late maybe >> "Just in time" would be the key. Poor Vista sales are not just the result >> of complaints, there is a small but noticeable financial crisis in the US >> right now, we are both in the middle of it. Forecast of $5 a gallon gas, a >> billion dollar loss of crops which will inflate food prices, layoffs all >> around and no end in sight in Iraq means that if the Government will not >> tighten their belts the public will do it for them. MS will be smart to >> recognize this. People are not going to invest $1000+ in a new computer >> unless they really can be confident it's "Disposable" income. > > Offset by more people working at home, choosing XP and not Vista. > > Know one person buying a PC, getting in under the wire but getting it with > XP and not Vista. Theirs broke and their work does not support Vista yet. > > Well I don't know how many corporations are going back to the dumb terminal and mainframe idea but essentially that is what we have done using W2003 Server and Wyse thing clients. There are a few XP machines around, and I have 2 or 3 running Linux (Debian and Ubuntu). n fact though for most of the work all could be replaced by thin clients except for the 3 I use because they have to be able to "Run" things independently. This seems to make it a lot easier for our IT people to keep things in order remotely. This must represent a loss of potential business, and also gets people used to the idea that not "Everything" has to be Windows. It also means that any old machine capable of running XP can be used (Even older with Debian) so there is no real incentive to upgrade anything at all, hardware or software. If retail XP continued to be available then most would probably prefer to replace faulty machines with XP, but if one of these suffers a drive failure and I can't get XP then on goes Linux. Sure you can get machines cheap these days, but most come with "Home" versions if you buy from a big box store and that is often no use for work, As I said above, continued support was crucial but not that well stated, but pulling the product off the shelf with so much hardware that the new OS cannot use out there is disconcerting.
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: So help save Windows XP Re: So help save Windows XP Charlie Tame wrote: > PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >> Charlie Tame wrote: >>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>>> Too late: >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx >>> >>> I disagree a bit with that, the crucial factor was always extending >>> support. Another 6 years is a pretty good achievement in terms of >>> getting a big corporation to listen to customers. So instead of too late >>> maybe "Just in time" would be the key. >> >> Apples & oranges. Windows Life Cycle policy (for WinXP) hasn't changed, >> Charlie: WinXP SP3 will have Extended Support until 08 April 2014. >> Support for WinXP SP2 ends 13 July 1010. More: >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archive/2008/06/14/end-of-support-xp-service-pack-2.aspx >> > My point is that the pressure to extend was there but not clearly > visible at first. Obviously MS did listen, but made insufficient effort > to clarify the situation. Extend what? MS hasn't extended or changed anything as far as support for WinXP is concerned. > Also, the removal of XP from retail stores raises another question. Many > machines out there cannot run Vista. Many of the original CDs, OEM or > otherwise are lost. What happens to those machines in the event of a > hard drive failure or some virus damage? This has not been too > reassuring for customers. If you've got an OEM install of WinXP, MS wouldn't help you anyway. If you've lost your Retail WinXP CD, MS *may* be able to replace it for you, they're just not selling new ones or allowing OEMs to manufacturer new machines with WinXP presinstalled after 30 Jun-08. If you lose, e.g., your Owners Manual for your 1990 Chevy, chances are GM's not going to replace it.
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: So help save Windows XP Re: So help save Windows XP Canuck57 wrote: > "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:OanuuEkzIHA.4676@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > >> Too late: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx > > What a line of feltercarb. > > MS wants people to repurchase an OS ever three years or so. It helps > revenue to make the next billions for Bill, Steve and crew. It does not > have to be good, even if you don't need it; because we are good. > > See, I summarized pages of hard sell and filler into three sentences. Last time I checked, MS was a corporation based in a capitalist nation & world.
Guest David Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: XP Death Watch On Jun 14, 9:01 pm, "Twayne" <nob...@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote: > > XP Death Watch > > >http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/05/27/XP-deathwatch-T-minus-five-... > > > Even though it has had its own problems of late, Windows XP remains > > the most-used version of Windows. The newest data from Web metrics > > vendor Net Applications, for example, > > pegs XP as driving 73 percent of the personal computers that went > > online last month, > > > five times the nearest competitor, Microsoft's own Windows Vista. > > > Which is why an impending deadline five weeks from today is important. > > > According to Microsoft, June 30 is the last day it will permit > > retailers and OEMs to sell > > the nearly seven-year-old operating system. > > > [ Make your voice heard. Sign InfoWorld's 'Save Windows XP' petition > > today. ] > > >http://weblog.infoworld.com/save-xp/ > > > You'll have questions as that date approaches, > > > including whether the deadline will drive up prices (gouging, > > anyone?); > > > we plan to have the answers, starting with this FAQ and continuing > > through the end of next month. > > > How long until Microsoft shuts off the XP spigot? Five weeks from > > today is the last day Microsoft > > > will officially allow retailers to sell the old operating system, and > > let major computer makers > > You're out of date; check it out again.
Guest Hadron Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: XP Death Watch "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> writes: > "Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> wrote in message > news:g33kfp$9la$1@registered.motzarella.org... > >>> But still, EeePC continues to do quite well on the Linux version sales, >>> the >>> cat is out of the bag. While Dell touted Linux support, it has half >>> a$$ed >>> and business only. Asus and others, different story. >>> >> >> You have these figures? > > Read and weep. Why weep? I want Linux to succeed on these things. The problem is that most people want Windows so that they can sync their phones and PDAs properly. > > http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,143402-pg,1/article.html > ,---- | "A lot of people have been waiting for the Windows version," said Jonney | Shih, chairman of Asus, at a news conference in Taipei on Thursday. `---- > Asus initially release the Eee PC line with Linux only. So, the > market Huh? This is old news. > share in this segment was 100%. Which is why MS had to get an OS fast, and > Vista, well, super fat and too big. > > So, take a current view of a ratio of 6:4, that is a 40% market share > for > Linux. A tad bit higher than MS-fanboys would like to admit. Expecting to > sell 2 million Linux ones this year alone, not including last years > sales. So these figures do count? What happened to "there is no market for a free product"? > > OLPC is 100% Linux. I don't believe this has changed. The OLPC is a non starter. And you are wrong. > > Amazon seems to have trouble keeping the Eee PC Linux ones in stock, maybe > Asus underestimated Linux? At least in that venue Linux makes it top list > more than XP for the Eee PC, go figure. No. They underestimated the EEE. Most people who buy one have NO idea it has Linux on it. > > Can't see the writing? Big, fat, expensive bloated low compatibility > operating systems are generally on the way out. Except for high end Apple > Macs, which too record increased sales. You mean the one here which is predicted to START at outselling Linux by 3:2? Are you really this dim? > > You know Microsoft isn't going to want to have Asus publish it's real sales > numbers of Linux versus XP. Linux growth will astound many. You're crackers. -- "What's wrong, (p)Rick? Were you defending the innocence of Hans "The Linux Butcher" Reiser, and now that he's about to give up the body you're embarrassed at being an idiot?" -- DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> in comp.os.linux.advocacy
Guest Charlie Tame Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: So help save Windows XP Re: So help save Windows XP PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: > Charlie Tame wrote: >> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>> Charlie Tame wrote: >>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>>>> Too late: >>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx >>>> >>>> I disagree a bit with that, the crucial factor was always extending >>>> support. Another 6 years is a pretty good achievement in terms of >>>> getting a big corporation to listen to customers. So instead of too >>>> late >>>> maybe "Just in time" would be the key. >>> >>> Apples & oranges. Windows Life Cycle policy (for WinXP) hasn't changed, >>> Charlie: WinXP SP3 will have Extended Support until 08 April 2014. >>> Support for WinXP SP2 ends 13 July 1010. More: >>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archive/2008/06/14/end-of-support-xp-service-pack-2.aspx >>> >>> >> My point is that the pressure to extend was there but not clearly >> visible at first. Obviously MS did listen, but made insufficient effort >> to clarify the situation. > > Extend what? MS hasn't extended or changed anything as far as support > for WinXP is concerned. Hmm, different meaning of the word extend I think. In my view when they stop selling an OS then it is dead, however they chose to "Extend" support for XP thus accepting the fact that for some years people would want support. That is a good thing but was not that clear to many people at first. >> Also, the removal of XP from retail stores raises another question. Many >> machines out there cannot run Vista. Many of the original CDs, OEM or >> otherwise are lost. What happens to those machines in the event of a >> hard drive failure or some virus damage? This has not been too >> reassuring for customers. > > If you've got an OEM install of WinXP, MS wouldn't help you anyway. Agreed, however if one cannot obtain a legit copy of XP to replace a broken one with the the machine is dead dead. If the manufacturer cannot supply and OEM CD you are hosed. > If you've lost your Retail WinXP CD, MS *may* be able to replace it for > you, they're just not selling new ones or allowing OEMs to manufacturer > new machines with WinXP presinstalled after 30 Jun-08. Well, I hope they put a mechanism in place to do this and to replace lost OEM keys with legit retail keys (I don't mean for nothing of course) because if they do not the customer may well say "Okay, next time I buy an Apple". > If you lose, e.g., your Owners Manual for your 1990 Chevy, chances are > GM's not going to replace it. But if I lose the manual it doesn't automatically scrap the car. IMHO it is better to be helpful and keep customer relations than have them look at competitor's products, and the fact is there are now some capacle competitors.
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: So help save Windows XP Re: So help save Windows XP Charlie Tame wrote: > PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >> Charlie Tame wrote: >>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>>> Charlie Tame wrote: >>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>>>>> Too late: >>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx >>>>> >>>>> I disagree a bit with that, the crucial factor was always extending >>>>> support. Another 6 years is a pretty good achievement in terms of >>>>> getting a big corporation to listen to customers. So instead of too >>>>> late >>>>> maybe "Just in time" would be the key. >>>> >>>> Apples & oranges. Windows Life Cycle policy (for WinXP) hasn't >>>> changed, >>>> Charlie: WinXP SP3 will have Extended Support until 08 April 2014. >>>> Support for WinXP SP2 ends 13 July 1010. More: >>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archive/2008/06/14/end-of-support-xp-service-pack-2.aspx >>>> >>>> >>> My point is that the pressure to extend was there but not clearly >>> visible at first. Obviously MS did listen, but made insufficient effort >>> to clarify the situation. >> >> Extend what? MS hasn't extended or changed anything as far as support >> for WinXP is concerned. > > > Hmm, different meaning of the word extend I think. In my view when they > stop selling an OS then it is dead, however they chose to "Extend" > support for XP thus accepting the fact that for some years people would > want support. That is a good thing but was not that clear to many people > at first. Repeat: MS did not choose to extend support for WinXP SP2 or SP3. The LifeCycle Policy did NOT change. Extended support for SP2 was ALWAYS going to end two (2) years after the release of SP3; extended support for SP3 was ALWAYS going to end six (6) years after the release of the final Service Pack for WinXP (i.e., SP3). >>> Also, the removal of XP from retail stores raises another question. Many >>> machines out there cannot run Vista. Many of the original CDs, OEM or >>> otherwise are lost. What happens to those machines in the event of a >>> hard drive failure or some virus damage? This has not been too >>> reassuring for customers. >> >> If you've got an OEM install of WinXP, MS wouldn't help you anyway. > > > Agreed, however if one cannot obtain a legit copy of XP to replace a > broken one with the the machine is dead dead. If the manufacturer cannot > supply and OEM CD you are hosed. Lots of Win9x users have been and are hosed. If you don't wanna get hosed, don't lose or break your CDs! >> If you've lost your Retail WinXP CD, MS *may* be able to replace it for >> you, they're just not selling new ones or allowing OEMs to manufacturer >> new machines with WinXP presinstalled after 30 Jun-08. > > Well, I hope they put a mechanism in place to do this and to replace > lost OEM keys with legit retail keys (I don't mean for nothing of > course) because if they do not the customer may well say "Okay, next > time I buy an Apple". I wouldn't hold my breath IIWY, and I doubt MS's market dominance will ever be truly threatened by Apple. Too many businesses are technically and economically committed to Windows architecture in the long-term. >> If you lose, e.g., your Owners Manual for your 1990 Chevy, chances are >> GM's not going to replace it. > > But if I lose the manual it doesn't automatically scrap the car. IMHO it > is better to be helpful and keep customer relations than have them look > at competitor's products, and the fact is there are now some capacle > competitors. Well, how about if your '90 Chevy's engine fails: Is GM going to provide or can they provide a replacement (at any cost)? Again, I don't think Redmond's feeling any competitive pressure to speak of: They big money's in Business, not Home/SOHO Users.
Guest R. McCarty Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: So help save Windows XP Re: So help save Windows XP Microsoft's most profitable product is Office - Not Windows. In that area Microsoft's dominance will continue. XP is good, but no amount of petitions, customer input or other pressure will change the decision. Windows XP's fate is sealed. Past April 2009 only Security updates will be provided free ( Windows Update Tuesday ). HotFixes and the other corrections to the OS will cost money in the form of an extended support contract. XP Home will continue on for the Ultra-Portable market. Even though XP has a huge installed base over time vendors will stop delivering both drivers and applications with XP native support. "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e8wV%23tyzIHA.3680@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Charlie Tame wrote: >> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>> Charlie Tame wrote: >>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>>>> Charlie Tame wrote: >>>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>>>>>> Too late: >>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx >>>>>> >>>>>> I disagree a bit with that, the crucial factor was always extending >>>>>> support. Another 6 years is a pretty good achievement in terms of >>>>>> getting a big corporation to listen to customers. So instead of too >>>>>> late >>>>>> maybe "Just in time" would be the key. >>>>> >>>>> Apples & oranges. Windows Life Cycle policy (for WinXP) hasn't >>>>> changed, >>>>> Charlie: WinXP SP3 will have Extended Support until 08 April 2014. >>>>> Support for WinXP SP2 ends 13 July 1010. More: >>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archive/2008/06/14/end-of-support-xp-service-pack-2.aspx >>>>> >>>>> >>>> My point is that the pressure to extend was there but not clearly >>>> visible at first. Obviously MS did listen, but made insufficient effort >>>> to clarify the situation. >>> >>> Extend what? MS hasn't extended or changed anything as far as support >>> for WinXP is concerned. >> >> >> Hmm, different meaning of the word extend I think. In my view when they >> stop selling an OS then it is dead, however they chose to "Extend" >> support for XP thus accepting the fact that for some years people would >> want support. That is a good thing but was not that clear to many people >> at first. > > Repeat: MS did not choose to extend support for WinXP SP2 or SP3. The > LifeCycle Policy did NOT change. Extended support for SP2 was ALWAYS > going to end two (2) years after the release of SP3; extended support for > SP3 was ALWAYS going to end six (6) years after the release of the final > Service Pack for WinXP (i.e., SP3). > >>>> Also, the removal of XP from retail stores raises another question. >>>> Many >>>> machines out there cannot run Vista. Many of the original CDs, OEM or >>>> otherwise are lost. What happens to those machines in the event of a >>>> hard drive failure or some virus damage? This has not been too >>>> reassuring for customers. >>> >>> If you've got an OEM install of WinXP, MS wouldn't help you anyway. >> >> >> Agreed, however if one cannot obtain a legit copy of XP to replace a >> broken one with the the machine is dead dead. If the manufacturer cannot >> supply and OEM CD you are hosed. > > Lots of Win9x users have been and are hosed. If you don't wanna get > hosed, don't lose or break your CDs! > >>> If you've lost your Retail WinXP CD, MS *may* be able to replace it for >>> you, they're just not selling new ones or allowing OEMs to manufacturer >>> new machines with WinXP presinstalled after 30 Jun-08. >> >> Well, I hope they put a mechanism in place to do this and to replace >> lost OEM keys with legit retail keys (I don't mean for nothing of >> course) because if they do not the customer may well say "Okay, next >> time I buy an Apple". > > I wouldn't hold my breath IIWY, and I doubt MS's market dominance will > ever be truly threatened by Apple. Too many businesses are technically > and economically committed to Windows architecture in the long-term. > >>> If you lose, e.g., your Owners Manual for your 1990 Chevy, chances are >>> GM's not going to replace it. >> >> But if I lose the manual it doesn't automatically scrap the car. IMHO it >> is better to be helpful and keep customer relations than have them look >> at competitor's products, and the fact is there are now some capacle >> competitors. > > Well, how about if your '90 Chevy's engine fails: Is GM going to provide > or can they provide a replacement (at any cost)? Again, I don't think > Redmond's feeling any competitive pressure to speak of: They big money's > in Business, not Home/SOHO Users.
Guest PA Bear [MS MVP] Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: So help save Windows XP Re: So help save Windows XP Why are you replying to my post? R. McCarty wrote: > Microsoft's most profitable product is Office - Not Windows. In that > area Microsoft's dominance will continue. XP is good, but no amount > of petitions, customer input or other pressure will change the decision. > > Windows XP's fate is sealed. Past April 2009 only Security updates > will be provided free ( Windows Update Tuesday ). HotFixes and the > other corrections to the OS will cost money in the form of an extended > support contract. > > XP Home will continue on for the Ultra-Portable market. Even though > XP has a huge installed base over time vendors will stop delivering both > drivers and applications with XP native support. > > "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:e8wV%23tyzIHA.3680@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Charlie Tame wrote: >>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>>> Charlie Tame wrote: >>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>>>>> Charlie Tame wrote: >>>>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>>>>>>> Too late: >>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I disagree a bit with that, the crucial factor was always extending >>>>>>> support. Another 6 years is a pretty good achievement in terms of >>>>>>> getting a big corporation to listen to customers. So instead of too >>>>>>> late >>>>>>> maybe "Just in time" would be the key. >>>>>> >>>>>> Apples & oranges. Windows Life Cycle policy (for WinXP) hasn't >>>>>> changed, >>>>>> Charlie: WinXP SP3 will have Extended Support until 08 April 2014. >>>>>> Support for WinXP SP2 ends 13 July 1010. More: >>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archive/2008/06/14/end-of-support-xp-service-pack-2.aspx >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> My point is that the pressure to extend was there but not clearly >>>>> visible at first. Obviously MS did listen, but made insufficient >>>>> effort >>>>> to clarify the situation. >>>> >>>> Extend what? MS hasn't extended or changed anything as far as support >>>> for WinXP is concerned. >>> >>> >>> Hmm, different meaning of the word extend I think. In my view when they >>> stop selling an OS then it is dead, however they chose to "Extend" >>> support for XP thus accepting the fact that for some years people would >>> want support. That is a good thing but was not that clear to many people >>> at first. >> >> Repeat: MS did not choose to extend support for WinXP SP2 or SP3. The >> LifeCycle Policy did NOT change. Extended support for SP2 was ALWAYS >> going to end two (2) years after the release of SP3; extended support for >> SP3 was ALWAYS going to end six (6) years after the release of the final >> Service Pack for WinXP (i.e., SP3). >> >>>>> Also, the removal of XP from retail stores raises another question. >>>>> Many >>>>> machines out there cannot run Vista. Many of the original CDs, OEM or >>>>> otherwise are lost. What happens to those machines in the event of a >>>>> hard drive failure or some virus damage? This has not been too >>>>> reassuring for customers. >>>> >>>> If you've got an OEM install of WinXP, MS wouldn't help you anyway. >>> >>> >>> Agreed, however if one cannot obtain a legit copy of XP to replace a >>> broken one with the the machine is dead dead. If the manufacturer cannot >>> supply and OEM CD you are hosed. >> >> Lots of Win9x users have been and are hosed. If you don't wanna get >> hosed, don't lose or break your CDs! >> >>>> If you've lost your Retail WinXP CD, MS *may* be able to replace it for >>>> you, they're just not selling new ones or allowing OEMs to manufacturer >>>> new machines with WinXP presinstalled after 30 Jun-08. >>> >>> Well, I hope they put a mechanism in place to do this and to replace >>> lost OEM keys with legit retail keys (I don't mean for nothing of >>> course) because if they do not the customer may well say "Okay, next >>> time I buy an Apple". >> >> I wouldn't hold my breath IIWY, and I doubt MS's market dominance will >> ever be truly threatened by Apple. Too many businesses are technically >> and economically committed to Windows architecture in the long-term. >> >>>> If you lose, e.g., your Owners Manual for your 1990 Chevy, chances are >>>> GM's not going to replace it. >>> >>> But if I lose the manual it doesn't automatically scrap the car. IMHO it >>> is better to be helpful and keep customer relations than have them look >>> at competitor's products, and the fact is there are now some capacle >>> competitors. >> >> Well, how about if your '90 Chevy's engine fails: Is GM going to provide >> or can they provide a replacement (at any cost)? Again, I don't think >> Redmond's feeling any competitive pressure to speak of: They big money's >> in Business, not Home/SOHO Users.
Guest R. McCarty Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: So help save Windows XP Re: So help save Windows XP Excuse me, I've had some trouble lately responding to the right part of a thread. Wasn't paying close enough attention. "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message news:u5Z4tPzzIHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Why are you replying to my post? > > R. McCarty wrote: >> Microsoft's most profitable product is Office - Not Windows. In that >> area Microsoft's dominance will continue. XP is good, but no amount >> of petitions, customer input or other pressure will change the decision. >> >> Windows XP's fate is sealed. Past April 2009 only Security updates >> will be provided free ( Windows Update Tuesday ). HotFixes and the >> other corrections to the OS will cost money in the form of an extended >> support contract. >> >> XP Home will continue on for the Ultra-Portable market. Even though >> XP has a huge installed base over time vendors will stop delivering both >> drivers and applications with XP native support. >> >> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:e8wV%23tyzIHA.3680@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> Charlie Tame wrote: >>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>>>> Charlie Tame wrote: >>>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>>>>>> Charlie Tame wrote: >>>>>>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: >>>>>>>>> Too late: >>>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I disagree a bit with that, the crucial factor was always extending >>>>>>>> support. Another 6 years is a pretty good achievement in terms of >>>>>>>> getting a big corporation to listen to customers. So instead of too >>>>>>>> late >>>>>>>> maybe "Just in time" would be the key. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apples & oranges. Windows Life Cycle policy (for WinXP) hasn't >>>>>>> changed, >>>>>>> Charlie: WinXP SP3 will have Extended Support until 08 April 2014. >>>>>>> Support for WinXP SP2 ends 13 July 1010. More: >>>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archive/2008/06/14/end-of-support-xp-service-pack-2.aspx >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> My point is that the pressure to extend was there but not clearly >>>>>> visible at first. Obviously MS did listen, but made insufficient >>>>>> effort >>>>>> to clarify the situation. >>>>> >>>>> Extend what? MS hasn't extended or changed anything as far as support >>>>> for WinXP is concerned. >>>> >>>> >>>> Hmm, different meaning of the word extend I think. In my view when they >>>> stop selling an OS then it is dead, however they chose to "Extend" >>>> support for XP thus accepting the fact that for some years people would >>>> want support. That is a good thing but was not that clear to many >>>> people >>>> at first. >>> >>> Repeat: MS did not choose to extend support for WinXP SP2 or SP3. The >>> LifeCycle Policy did NOT change. Extended support for SP2 was ALWAYS >>> going to end two (2) years after the release of SP3; extended support >>> for >>> SP3 was ALWAYS going to end six (6) years after the release of the final >>> Service Pack for WinXP (i.e., SP3). >>> >>>>>> Also, the removal of XP from retail stores raises another question. >>>>>> Many >>>>>> machines out there cannot run Vista. Many of the original CDs, OEM or >>>>>> otherwise are lost. What happens to those machines in the event of a >>>>>> hard drive failure or some virus damage? This has not been too >>>>>> reassuring for customers. >>>>> >>>>> If you've got an OEM install of WinXP, MS wouldn't help you anyway. >>>> >>>> >>>> Agreed, however if one cannot obtain a legit copy of XP to replace a >>>> broken one with the the machine is dead dead. If the manufacturer >>>> cannot >>>> supply and OEM CD you are hosed. >>> >>> Lots of Win9x users have been and are hosed. If you don't wanna get >>> hosed, don't lose or break your CDs! >>> >>>>> If you've lost your Retail WinXP CD, MS *may* be able to replace it >>>>> for >>>>> you, they're just not selling new ones or allowing OEMs to >>>>> manufacturer >>>>> new machines with WinXP presinstalled after 30 Jun-08. >>>> >>>> Well, I hope they put a mechanism in place to do this and to replace >>>> lost OEM keys with legit retail keys (I don't mean for nothing of >>>> course) because if they do not the customer may well say "Okay, next >>>> time I buy an Apple". >>> >>> I wouldn't hold my breath IIWY, and I doubt MS's market dominance will >>> ever be truly threatened by Apple. Too many businesses are technically >>> and economically committed to Windows architecture in the long-term. >>> >>>>> If you lose, e.g., your Owners Manual for your 1990 Chevy, chances are >>>>> GM's not going to replace it. >>>> >>>> But if I lose the manual it doesn't automatically scrap the car. IMHO >>>> it >>>> is better to be helpful and keep customer relations than have them look >>>> at competitor's products, and the fact is there are now some capacle >>>> competitors. >>> >>> Well, how about if your '90 Chevy's engine fails: Is GM going to provide >>> or can they provide a replacement (at any cost)? Again, I don't think >>> Redmond's feeling any competitive pressure to speak of: They big money's >>> in Business, not Home/SOHO Users. >
Guest Canuck57 Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: So help save Windows XP Re: So help save Windows XP "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message news:upKYldyzIHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > Well, I hope they put a mechanism in place to do this and to replace lost > OEM keys with legit retail keys (I don't mean for nothing of course) > because if they do not the customer may well say "Okay, next time I buy an > Apple". LOL. Just listened to this latest Apple/Vista ad. http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
Guest Canuck57 Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: So help save Windows XP Re: So help save Windows XP "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e8wV%23tyzIHA.3680@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > I wouldn't hold my breath IIWY, and I doubt MS's market dominance will > ever be truly threatened by Apple. Too many businesses are technically > and economically committed to Windows architecture in the long-term. That sounds like deja-vue to me. Except it was 1981 or so. "Apple is not truly threatened by PC-DOS." Apple sticks to its course, they could someday find "revenge is best served cold."
Guest Canuck57 Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: So help save Windows XP Re: So help save Windows XP "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message news:%23RDYdwxzIHA.2068@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Canuck57 wrote: >> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:OanuuEkzIHA.4676@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> >>> Too late: >>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx >> >> What a line of feltercarb. >> >> MS wants people to repurchase an OS ever three years or so. It helps >> revenue to make the next billions for Bill, Steve and crew. It does not >> have to be good, even if you don't need it; because we are good. >> >> See, I summarized pages of hard sell and filler into three sentences. > > Last time I checked, MS was a corporation based in a capitalist nation & > world. Agreed, but people want a more stable, inexpensive open product. Microsoft sure isn't inexpensive and nor open. Sounds like PC professor. "My product is so good, please by my product?". People are on to this. Any business model has to adjust, Microsoft just doesn't get it yet. People will buy what they perceive will work for them. The word on Vista is out. That is why alternative devices and stuff like Eee PC are sailing out the doors, often with Linux too. Think, the almighty Microsoft didn't anticipate the small appliance PC.
Guest Canuck57 Posted June 15, 2008 Posted June 15, 2008 Re: XP Death Watch "Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> wrote in message news:g33t7v$fto$2@registered.motzarella.org... >> Amazon seems to have trouble keeping the Eee PC Linux ones in stock, >> maybe >> Asus underestimated Linux? At least in that venue Linux makes it top >> list >> more than XP for the Eee PC, go figure. > > No. They underestimated the EEE. Most people who buy one have NO idea it > has Linux on it. XP versions seem to be in stock, lower down the popular list. But that is my point. On emergin popular growth system Linux is doing quite well. >> Can't see the writing? Big, fat, expensive bloated low compatibility >> operating systems are generally on the way out. Except for high end >> Apple >> Macs, which too record increased sales. > > You mean the one here which is predicted to START at outselling Linux by > 3:2? Are you really this dim? Nope, not dim. I would not hazard a guess if Linux will outsell Mac or the other way around. Will predict, collectively they will erode MS-Windows market share.
Guest Charlie Tame Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 Re: So help save Windows XP Re: So help save Windows XP Canuck57 wrote: > "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message > news:upKYldyzIHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > >> Well, I hope they put a mechanism in place to do this and to replace lost >> OEM keys with legit retail keys (I don't mean for nothing of course) >> because if they do not the customer may well say "Okay, next time I buy an >> Apple". > > LOL. Just listened to this latest Apple/Vista ad. > > http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/ > > > Well, my family had Fords for years and I had a couple of them myself, but after repeatedly fixing recurring problems I decided to go back to cars that I'd had no troubles with, GM and Chrysler. I will not go back to Ford for smaller cars ever, although I think their bigger models may be tolerable. There is no real login in this, I am sure for example that the new Ford powered Jaguars are much more reliable than the V12s were, but you know, when people get annoyed with a brand there is no place for logic... But as PA Bear pointed out MS are mostly interested in Business users... well what business needs is reliability not more expense and unnecessary glitz, and many businesses can how use terminal services to do what they want so don't need PCs as much if at all. The big advantage Windows has over Linux and MAC is games, for those you do need a complete PC. Our local hospital has XP all over the place, but the machines are actually running a terminal program so those copies of XP are not needed really, a thin client will do and it less easy to damage or steal private info from :)
Guest Alias Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 Re: So help save Windows XP Re: So help save Windows XP PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: > > Lots of Win9x users have been and are hosed. Only the ignorant ones when you consider that Win9x can be installed with any Win9x media and any product key. Alias
Guest Alias Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 Re: So help save Windows XP Re: So help save Windows XP PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote: > Canuck57 wrote: >> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:OanuuEkzIHA.4676@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> >>> Too late: >>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsxp/future.mspx >> >> What a line of feltercarb. >> >> MS wants people to repurchase an OS ever three years or so. It helps >> revenue to make the next billions for Bill, Steve and crew. It does not >> have to be good, even if you don't need it; because we are good. >> >> See, I summarized pages of hard sell and filler into three sentences. > > Last time I checked, MS was a corporation based in a capitalist nation & > world. Last time I checked, good public relations and services with one's customers are a part of a good capitalist equation, something MS and its ilk is ignoring due to their de facto monopoly which, thankfully, is being destroyed by Vista and MS' obvious disdain for its paying customers. Alias
Guest Jim H Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 RE: So help save Windows XP RE: So help save Windows XP XP= Good Riddance "cheley_bonstell88@live.com" wrote: > > So help save Windows XP > > On Jun 13, 8:52 pm, cheley_bonstel...@live.com wrote: > > XP Death Watch > > > > http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/05/27/XP-deathwatch-T-minus-five-... > > > > Even though it has had its own problems of late, Windows XP remains > > the most-used version of Windows. The newest data from Web metrics > > vendor Net Applications, for example, > > pegs XP as driving 73 percent of the personal computers that went > > online last month, > > > > five times the nearest competitor, Microsoft's own Windows Vista. > > > > Which is why an impending deadline five weeks from today is important. > > > > According to Microsoft, June 30 is the last day it will permit > > retailers and OEMs to sell > > the nearly seven-year-old operating system. > > > > [ Make your voice heard. Sign InfoWorld's 'Save Windows XP' petition > > today. ] > > > > http://weblog.infoworld.com/save-xp/ > > > > You'll have questions as that date approaches, > > > > including whether the deadline will drive up prices (gouging, > > anyone?); > > > > we plan to have the answers, starting with this FAQ and continuing > > through the end of next month. > > > > How long until Microsoft shuts off the XP spigot? Five weeks from > > today is the last day Microsoft > > > > will officially allow retailers to sell the old operating system, and > > let major computer makers > > -- > > called "OEMs," for "original equipment manufacturers" -- to sell PCs > > with XP pre-installed. > > > > Monday, June 30, is the EOL, or End-Of-Life, a term Dell, not > > Microsoft, has publicly used, > > for XP's retail and OEM availability. > > > > So what's the June 18 date I've heard about? That's the day that Dell > > has said is the last > > > > possible day for its customers to buy a machine running Windows XP. > > "To meet Microsoft's > > > > June 30 last-day-to-ship OEM Windows XP deadline, > > > > June 18 is the last time to purchase a Dell laptop, desktop, or > > workstation > > > > with an OEM Windows XP license" > > > > , Dell says on its Web site. > > > > http://www.dell.com > >
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