General instructions to re-install Windows XP

June 14, 2008

I'm on the journey to learn about doing a WinXP full install. I've actually

done this once (without choice) on my laptop when attempting to upgrade from

XP Home to XP Pro.

As I've been doing research on the web, it appears doing a periodic full

reinstall of Win isn't such a bad idea. My question is about the process.

The way I did it I had to reinstall all Windows upgrades and then the

applications and upgrades after the Win install. I also had to make settings

like Outlook email accounts, etc. Not such a big deal but for weeks after

there were little omissions (Adobe Reader, irfanview, etc.) that I had to

reinstall.

So the process generally was:

Win full install, Win upgrades, Win configuration settings (e.g. networks),

Applications, Application upgrades, Application configuration settings.

Worked but it seems pretty brute force.

What I've found on the net is mostly technical information about creating

boot CDs, etc. Before diving into the details, is there a site that provides

a very high level view of the overall process and how to cut some of the

steps down some? For example, is the Migration Tool useful at all during a

reinstall? Is there a checklist (e.g. make as complete a list of all the

applications installed)?

For my laptop I have the WinXP CD. I have a friend who will also journey

into the reinstall jungle with me who has a Lenova (where there was no CD but

it looks like they put something on a HD partition).

Any help getting educated would be appreciated. Just remember to keep it

high level for now. I want to get a sense of the journey first.

Thanks

Tom

June 14, 2008

Re: General instructions to re-install Windows XP

On Jun 14, 3:17 pm, tcarp <tc...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

> I'm on the journey to learn about doing a WinXP full install. I've actually

> done this once (without choice) on my laptop when attempting to upgrade from

> XP Home to XP Pro.

>

> As I've been doing research on the web, it appears doing a periodic full

> reinstall of Win isn't such a bad idea. My question is about the process.

>

> The way I did it I had to reinstall all Windows upgrades and then the

> applications and upgrades after the Win install. I also had to make settings

> like Outlook email accounts, etc. Not such a big deal but for weeks after

> there were little omissions (Adobe Reader, irfanview, etc.) that I had to

> reinstall.

>

> So the process generally was:

>

> Win full install, Win upgrades, Win configuration settings (e.g. networks),

> Applications, Application upgrades, Application configuration settings.

> Worked but it seems pretty brute force.

>

> What I've found on the net is mostly technical information about creating

> boot CDs, etc. Before diving into the details, is there a site that provides

> a very high level view of the overall process and how to cut some of the

> steps down some? For example, is the Migration Tool useful at all during a

> reinstall? Is there a checklist (e.g. make as complete a list of all the

> applications installed)?

>

> For my laptop I have the WinXP CD. I have a friend who will also journey

> into the reinstall jungle with me who has a Lenova (where there was no CD but

> it looks like they put something on a HD partition).

>

> Any help getting educated would be appreciated. Just remember to keep it

> high level for now. I want to get a sense of the journey first.

>

> Thanks

>

> Tom

Acronis True Image will give you just that. A "true image" of your

hdd, preferably made when your PC is running to your taste. You can

store the image (on a spare hdd) till you need it (next time your

system collapses).

June 14, 2008

Re: General instructions to re-install Windows XP

"tcarp" <tcarp@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:76D5CC1C-C0AB-4481-9B3B-FDD335C13969@microsoft.com...

> I'm on the journey to learn about doing a WinXP full install. I've

> actually

> done this once (without choice) on my laptop when attempting to upgrade

> from

> XP Home to XP Pro.

>

> As I've been doing research on the web, it appears doing a periodic full

> reinstall of Win isn't such a bad idea. My question is about the process.

>

> The way I did it I had to reinstall all Windows upgrades and then the

> applications and upgrades after the Win install. I also had to make

> settings

> like Outlook email accounts, etc. Not such a big deal but for weeks after

> there were little omissions (Adobe Reader, irfanview, etc.) that I had to

> reinstall.

>

> So the process generally was:

>

> Win full install, Win upgrades, Win configuration settings (e.g.

> networks),

> Applications, Application upgrades, Application configuration settings.

> Worked but it seems pretty brute force.

>

> What I've found on the net is mostly technical information about creating

> boot CDs, etc. Before diving into the details, is there a site that

> provides

> a very high level view of the overall process and how to cut some of the

> steps down some? For example, is the Migration Tool useful at all during

> a

> reinstall? Is there a checklist (e.g. make as complete a list of all the

> applications installed)?

>

> For my laptop I have the WinXP CD. I have a friend who will also journey

> into the reinstall jungle with me who has a Lenova (where there was no CD

> but

> it looks like they put something on a HD partition).

>

> Any help getting educated would be appreciated. Just remember to keep it

> high level for now. I want to get a sense of the journey first.

>

> Thanks

>

> Tom

Tom:

Not sure if my following comments will be "high level" and useful to you

since I'm unsure as to the meaning of that phrase in the context of this

issue, however, for what it's worth...

First of all, your statement that "it appears doing a periodic full

reinstall of Win (XP) isn't such a bad idea." is questionable in & of

itself. There's really no reason to undertake a "periodic" fresh install of

the OS (or in the case of an OEM machine using the recovery CD or partition)

unless one has good & sufficient reasons to do so, e.g., a seriously

corrupted OS that cannot be overcome through a Repair install or other

relatively simple processes, or some type of malware that is seemingly

impossible to remove, or other software-related problem(s) that can't be

corrected and which result in a dysfunctional system, etc., etc.

On the other hand I'm aware of many users who simply feel more comfortable

with their PC when they fresh install the OS from time-to-time. So be it.

It seems to me that what should be a user's prime objective when he or she

is satisfied with the operation of their system is to establish & maintain

on a routine basis a comprehensive backup program, particularly considering

a disk cloning or disk imaging system so that they routinely maintain an

up-to-date backup of their system on another HDD. And that this backup

should include *all* their data on their day-to-day working boot drive,

including their OS, all their programs & applications, user-created data,

etc. In short, *everything* that's on their internal HDD. Establishing &

maintaining an up-to-date comprehensive backup system along the lines I've

described will surely negate the need for "periodic" fresh installs of the

OS and the onerous task of a user's need to re:install all their programs &

data (as you have pointed out).

While there are so-called data migration programs (the Laplink program comes

to mind - there are others) that are designed to move programs/applications

from one system to another, most of them have serious limitations in our

experience. In most cases the user will need to reinstall their programs

following a fresh install of the OS. Not the most pleasant task for most

users.

Then there's the need to reinstall the MS critical (and perhaps other)

updates, although the recent release of SP3 makes that task less onerous.

But as the saying goes..."Yer pays yer money and yer makes yer cherce".

Anna

June 14, 2008

Re: General instructions to re-install Windows XP

sandy58 <aleckie68@googlemail.com> wrote:

>> Any help getting educated would be appreciated. Just remember to keep it

>> high level for now. I want to get a sense of the journey first.

>>

>> Thanks

>>

>> Tom

>

>Acronis True Image will give you just that. A "true image" of your

>hdd, preferably made when your PC is running to your taste. You can

>store the image (on a spare hdd) till you need it (next time your

>system collapses).

That's too simple. It's too understandable and cuts out all the drama.

You trying to ruin this cyber traveler's "journey"??

June 14, 2008

Re: General instructions to re-install Windows XP

sandy58 wrote:

> On Jun 14, 3:17 pm, tcarp <tc...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>> I'm on the journey to learn about doing a WinXP full install. I've actually

>> done this once (without choice) on my laptop when attempting to upgrade from

>> XP Home to XP Pro.

>>

>> As I've been doing research on the web, it appears doing a periodic full

>> reinstall of Win isn't such a bad idea. My question is about the process.

>>

>> The way I did it I had to reinstall all Windows upgrades and then the

>> applications and upgrades after the Win install. I also had to make settings

>> like Outlook email accounts, etc. Not such a big deal but for weeks after

>> there were little omissions (Adobe Reader, irfanview, etc.) that I had to

>> reinstall.

>>

>> So the process generally was:

>>

>> Win full install, Win upgrades, Win configuration settings (e.g. networks),

>> Applications, Application upgrades, Application configuration settings.

>> Worked but it seems pretty brute force.

>>

>> What I've found on the net is mostly technical information about creating

>> boot CDs, etc. Before diving into the details, is there a site that provides

>> a very high level view of the overall process and how to cut some of the

>> steps down some? For example, is the Migration Tool useful at all during a

>> reinstall? Is there a checklist (e.g. make as complete a list of all the

>> applications installed)?

>>

>> For my laptop I have the WinXP CD. I have a friend who will also journey

>> into the reinstall jungle with me who has a Lenova (where there was no CD but

>> it looks like they put something on a HD partition).

>>

>> Any help getting educated would be appreciated. Just remember to keep it

>> high level for now. I want to get a sense of the journey first.

>>

>> Thanks

>>

>> Tom

>

> Acronis True Image will give you just that. A "true image" of your

> hdd, preferably made when your PC is running to your taste. You can

> store the image (on a spare hdd) till you need it (next time your

> system collapses).

Sandy58 has a great idea. I've reloaded several times, about every

12-18 months. Same long drawn out process. Kills a day. I got ATI

about a 6mos. ago so when SP3 came out, I did a fresh reload, put in all

the patches, SP3, IE7, WMP11 etc etc., tweaked a few settings my way,

loaded a few apps etc and then stripped as much out as I could.

Removed Windows Messenger, did a clean up to clear caches etc.

I loaded ATI and imaged the drive and got it small enough to get it on a

DVD. Now the restore CD and the DVD are sitting there with a great

backup way back to a virgin load. I also make monthly images and daily

backups of select files.

I agree with everyone on both sides of the fence (non committal I guess)

on reloading a system. I used a laptop at the office for like 3

years and never reloaded it. It would have gone longer if I had not

retired. I screw with my laptop at home too much and I feel a reload

is needed, I guess I could fix it, just didn't. But that kinda tells

the story about why people have PC problems, since I "worked" with my pc

at the office I did only legit things and didn't install anything so it

was clean for a long time, at home I screw around, no wonder it don't

work! :-)

Take the time once to load your PC, then image it.

It took me 5-7 hours to get that virgin PC working. And 20 minutes to

image it or restore it the next time I need it. A great savings.

June 14, 2008

Re: General instructions to re-install Windows XP

"sandy58" wrote:

> tcarp wrote:

>> [...........]

>> As I've been doing research on the web, it appears doing a periodic full

>> reinstall of Win isn't such a bad idea. My question is about the process.

>> [...............]

>

> Acronis True Image will give you just that. A "true image" of your

> hdd, preferably made when your PC is running to your taste. You can

> store the image (on a spare hdd) till you need it (next time your

> system collapses).

Presumably, the OP wants to do a full re-install to get rid of all the

junk that accretes over time in the Windows OS. He seems not to want

to do a restoration of the OS as it existed at some previous point in time.

*TimDaniels*

June 14, 2008

Re: General instructions to re-install Windows XP

"tcarp" wrote:

> [....] Is there a checklist (e.g. make as complete a list of all the

> applications installed)?

A partial checklist is in:

Start | Settings | Control Panel | Add or Remove Programs

That is a list of programs that were installed. In addition to that

are the programs which can be executed but didn't need installation

that may be listed in C:/Program Files as .exe files.

There may also be various browser plug-ins listed in your browser.

Don't forget to back up your email files and your Favorites (Booknotes)

file, too.

> [.......] I have a friend who will also journey

> into the reinstall jungle with me who has a Lenova (where there

> was no CD but it looks like they put something on a HD partition).

That System Restore partition contains the image of the hard drive

as it came from the factory - without your data files, without any

programs which you may have installed since then, and WITH the

trialware junk that OEMs put on their machines. Don't use that

System Restore unless you've backed up ALL your data and any

programs which you've installed. Most people, after a couple months,

just reformat that partition and use it for data storage.

*TimDaniels*

June 14, 2008

Re: General instructions to re-install Windows XP

"Timothy Daniels" <NoSpam@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:

>>> As I've been doing research on the web, it appears doing a periodic full

>>> reinstall of Win isn't such a bad idea. My question is about the process.

>>> [...............]

>>

>> Acronis True Image will give you just that. A "true image" of your

>> hdd, preferably made when your PC is running to your taste. You can

>> store the image (on a spare hdd) till you need it (next time your

>> system collapses).

>

> Presumably, the OP wants to do a full re-install to get rid of all the

>junk that accretes over time in the Windows OS. He seems not to want

>to do a restoration of the OS as it existed at some previous point in time.

That's possibly true, but I totally disagree with the premise that

it's a good idea to do that periodically. Do it once if you think

your system might benefit, then do an image backup once all the

programs you want are installed and running.

A year or so down the road if you think it's time to wipe everything

and start over, you can start from the point when that image was made,

saving you a ton of time.

June 14, 2008

Re: General instructions to re-install Windows XP

"PD43" wrote:

> [....] I totally disagree with the premise that

> it's a good idea to do that periodically. Do it once if you think

> your system might benefit, then do an image backup once all the

> programs you want are installed and running.

>

> A year or so down the road if you think it's time to wipe everything

> and start over, you can start from the point when that image was made,

> saving you a ton of time.

Well... *I* do it periodically! I installed XP for the 1st time 4 or 5

years ago, and I think I'll re-install it again... sometime. Meanwhile,

I've added and removed a load of programs, I've added tons of email

and bookmarks, and it has gotten slow. What should I do?

*TimDaniels*

June 15, 2008

Re: General instructions to re-install Windows XP

"Timothy Daniels" <NoSpam@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:

>"PD43" wrote:

>> [....] I totally disagree with the premise that

>> it's a good idea to do that periodically. Do it once if you think

>> your system might benefit, then do an image backup once all the

>> programs you want are installed and running.

>>

>> A year or so down the road if you think it's time to wipe everything

>> and start over, you can start from the point when that image was made,

>> saving you a ton of time.

>

> Well... *I* do it periodically! I installed XP for the 1st time 4 or 5

>years ago, and I think I'll re-install it again... sometime. Meanwhile,

>I've added and removed a load of programs, I've added tons of email

>and bookmarks, and it has gotten slow. What should I do?

A couple months ago I mothballed an XP system that had been running

smoothly for 6 years... never a reinstall, and no noticeable slowdown

that I could detect.

June 15, 2008

RE: General instructions to re-install Windows XP

And for those of us without the CD (and without any knowledge), a couple of

questions:

1. How can I tell whether the hidden recovery partition is still in place and

2. What's the process to exterminate the junk I've accumulated over the

years?

Can I format the C drive and reboot from the recovery drive?

"tcarp" wrote:

> I'm on the journey to learn about doing a WinXP full install. I've actually

> done this once (without choice) on my laptop when attempting to upgrade from

> XP Home to XP Pro.

>

> As I've been doing research on the web, it appears doing a periodic full

> reinstall of Win isn't such a bad idea. My question is about the process.

>

> The way I did it I had to reinstall all Windows upgrades and then the

> applications and upgrades after the Win install. I also had to make settings

> like Outlook email accounts, etc. Not such a big deal but for weeks after

> there were little omissions (Adobe Reader, irfanview, etc.) that I had to

> reinstall.

>

> So the process generally was:

>

> Win full install, Win upgrades, Win configuration settings (e.g. networks),

> Applications, Application upgrades, Application configuration settings.

> Worked but it seems pretty brute force.

>

> What I've found on the net is mostly technical information about creating

> boot CDs, etc. Before diving into the details, is there a site that provides

> a very high level view of the overall process and how to cut some of the

> steps down some? For example, is the Migration Tool useful at all during a

> reinstall? Is there a checklist (e.g. make as complete a list of all the

> applications installed)?

>

> For my laptop I have the WinXP CD. I have a friend who will also journey

> into the reinstall jungle with me who has a Lenova (where there was no CD but

> it looks like they put something on a HD partition).

>

> Any help getting educated would be appreciated. Just remember to keep it

> high level for now. I want to get a sense of the journey first.

>

> Thanks

>

> Tom

June 15, 2008

Re: General instructions to re-install Windows XP

"Anna" wrote:

> Tom:

> Not sure if my following comments will be "high level" and useful to you

> since I'm unsure as to the meaning of that phrase in the context of this

> issue, however, for what it's worth...

>

> First of all, your statement that "it appears doing a periodic full

> reinstall of Win (XP) isn't such a bad idea." is questionable in & of

> itself. There's really no reason to undertake a "periodic" fresh install of

> the OS (or in the case of an OEM machine using the recovery CD or partition)

> unless one has good & sufficient reasons to do so, e.g., a seriously

> corrupted OS that cannot be overcome through a Repair install or other

> relatively simple processes, or some type of malware that is seemingly

> impossible to remove, or other software-related problem(s) that can't be

> corrected and which result in a dysfunctional system, etc., etc.

>

> On the other hand I'm aware of many users who simply feel more comfortable

> with their PC when they fresh install the OS from time-to-time. So be it.

>

> It seems to me that what should be a user's prime objective when he or she

> is satisfied with the operation of their system is to establish & maintain

> on a routine basis a comprehensive backup program, particularly considering

> a disk cloning or disk imaging system so that they routinely maintain an

> up-to-date backup of their system on another HDD. And that this backup

> should include *all* their data on their day-to-day working boot drive,

> including their OS, all their programs & applications, user-created data,

> etc. In short, *everything* that's on their internal HDD. Establishing &

> maintaining an up-to-date comprehensive backup system along the lines I've

> described will surely negate the need for "periodic" fresh installs of the

> OS and the onerous task of a user's need to re:install all their programs &

> data (as you have pointed out).

>

> While there are so-called data migration programs (the Laplink program comes

> to mind - there are others) that are designed to move programs/applications

> from one system to another, most of them have serious limitations in our

> experience. In most cases the user will need to reinstall their programs

> following a fresh install of the OS. Not the most pleasant task for most

> users.

>

> Then there's the need to reinstall the MS critical (and perhaps other)

> updates, although the recent release of SP3 makes that task less onerous.

>

> But as the saying goes..."Yer pays yer money and yer makes yer cherce".

> Anna

>

Anna, Timothy

Thanks for taking the time to post. I've already learned that my assumption

about periodic re-install may be misguided (I certainly don't fit into the

group that "just likes" having a clean system every so often). I've also

learned that there are some other steps to take before going to a reinstall,

that there's a backup strategy to be followed. And I've learned I have a lot

to learn.

Let's start with what to do when things are acting a bit wierd. "Wierd" in

this case starts with a call from a friend whose scanner stopped working.

She's already been through a lot of hours with HP trying to get it fixed

including making sure all the software components were there and functioning.

It also included a complete reinstall of the scanner software. Along the

way were some messages about corrupted .dll files. A local friendly Office

Depot gave her an exact duplicate scanner to try but the problem persisted.

The same OD gave her a very good deal on an older version of the scanner

which eventually did work (but not without another corrupted .dll message

during the install). Today a replacement scanner is working but the journey

left a lot of questions thus the interest in possibly doing a full install.

Maybe the thing to do is to go through 1) what we should have done (and

maybe still want to do) and 2) review the backup method she uses to see if

there might be a restore possibility still available (this will also be a

good review of my backup methods).

The only thing I did for them (other than offer a slightly higher

understanding of Windows) was to have them clean the Registry. As we went

through a complete uninstall/install of the scanner (it's actually a 4-in-1

device) we got past the point of failure that indicated a corrupt .dll. When

we ultimately installed the new scanner that ultimately worked the first time

trhough the install failed indicated a corrupt .dll (a different one). The

HP installer recognized the failure, did an uninstall, and the next time the

install was tried it finished fine and the replacement device worked.

What should we have done (or still might want to do)? Remember, the scanner

stopping working was the original problem and the corrupt .dll file messages

happened while trying to fix the problem.

I'm assuming a registry clean is one of the things to do. Is the only other

thing a Repair?

Moving on the the backup strategy and whether there is still an option she

might have available.

We both have good backup habits, meaning we do them every week or so. I use

Retrospect and she uses the Bounce Back that came with her Seagate external

HD. I have to check with her on what BB is backing up and whether it's

incremental.

Let's assume that she has full system backups. Are you implying that she

can "just" restore everything but the Documents folders to put the system

back to a place before the failures began? In the case of the 2 .dll files

that were said to be corrupted, the create and update dates are quite old

which I assume means they are in an uncorrputed state on the backups.

Should she restore those two .dll files? Is that dangerous? Can it be done

while the Windows is running?

Let's turn now to the backup strategy and the idea of images.

From your note doing a "complete" backup periodically is the idea. Do

incrementals count or are those mostly for documents (in case they are lost

or a bad update is saved)?

What about the idea of images (which is what I'm assuming she has on her

ThinkPad from Lenova)? How do images differ from backups? Are they used to

boot from (just in case) or are they used to restore Windows if needed?

As you can tell, my interest is to learn and avoid what one poster called

the "cyber journey".

Sorry for the fragmented post. I'm not sure even how to ask some of the

questions yet.

Tom

June 15, 2008

Re: General instructions to re-install Windows XP

> "Anna" wrote:

>> Tom:

>> Not sure if my following comments will be "high level" and useful to you

>> since I'm unsure as to the meaning of that phrase in the context of this

>> issue, however, for what it's worth...

>>

>> First of all, your statement that "it appears doing a periodic full

>> reinstall of Win (XP) isn't such a bad idea." is questionable in & of

>> itself. There's really no reason to undertake a "periodic" fresh install

>> of

>> the OS (or in the case of an OEM machine using the recovery CD or

>> partition) unless one has good & sufficient reasons to do so, e.g., a

>> seriously corrupted OS that cannot be overcome through a Repair install

>> or >> other relatively simple processes, or some type of malware that is

>> seemingly impossible to remove, or other software-related problem(s) that

>> >> can't be corrected and which result in a dysfunctional system, etc.,

>> etc.

>>

>> On the other hand I'm aware of many users who simply feel more

>> comfortable with their PC when they fresh install the OS from

>> time-to-time. >> So be it.

>>

>> It seems to me that what should be a user's prime objective when he or

>> she >> is satisfied with the operation of their system is to establish &

>> maintain

>> on a routine basis a comprehensive backup program, particularly

>> considering

>> a disk cloning or disk imaging system so that they routinely maintain an

>> up-to-date backup of their system on another HDD. And that this backup

>> should include *all* their data on their day-to-day working boot drive,

>> including their OS, all their programs & applications, user-created data,

>> etc. In short, *everything* that's on their internal HDD. Establishing &

>> maintaining an up-to-date comprehensive backup system along the lines

>> I've

>> described will surely negate the need for "periodic" fresh installs of

>> the

>> OS and the onerous task of a user's need to re:install all their programs

>> &

>> data (as you have pointed out).

>>

>> While there are so-called data migration programs (the Laplink program

>> comes

>> to mind - there are others) that are designed to move

>> programs/applications >> from one system to another, most of them have

>> serious limitations in our

>> experience. In most cases the user will need to reinstall their programs

>> following a fresh install of the OS. Not the most pleasant task for most

>> users.

>>

>> Then there's the need to reinstall the MS critical (and perhaps other)

>> updates, although the recent release of SP3 makes that task less onerous.

>>

>> But as the saying goes..."Yer pays yer money and yer makes yer cherce".

>> Anna

"tcarp" <tcarp@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:79F85901-FFB4-472D-B068-1E5D49E73BE6@microsoft.com...

> Thanks for taking the time to post. I've already learned that my

> assumption

> about periodic re-install may be misguided (I certainly don't fit into the

> group that "just likes" having a clean system every so often). I've also

> learned that there are some other steps to take before going to a

> reinstall,

> that there's a backup strategy to be followed. And I've learned I have a

> lot

> to learn.

>

> Let's start with what to do when things are acting a bit wierd. "Wierd"

> in

> this case starts with a call from a friend whose scanner stopped working.

> She's already been through a lot of hours with HP trying to get it fixed

> including making sure all the software components were there and

> functioning.

> It also included a complete reinstall of the scanner software. Along the

> way were some messages about corrupted .dll files. A local friendly

> Office

> Depot gave her an exact duplicate scanner to try but the problem

> persisted.

> The same OD gave her a very good deal on an older version of the scanner

> which eventually did work (but not without another corrupted .dll message

> during the install). Today a replacement scanner is working but the

> journey

> left a lot of questions thus the interest in possibly doing a full

> install.

>

> Maybe the thing to do is to go through 1) what we should have done (and

> maybe still want to do) and 2) review the backup method she uses to see if

> there might be a restore possibility still available (this will also be a

> good review of my backup methods).

>

> The only thing I did for them (other than offer a slightly higher

> understanding of Windows) was to have them clean the Registry. As we went

> through a complete uninstall/install of the scanner (it's actually a

> 4-in-1

> device) we got past the point of failure that indicated a corrupt .dll.

> When

> we ultimately installed the new scanner that ultimately worked the first

> time

> trhough the install failed indicated a corrupt .dll (a different one).

> The

> HP installer recognized the failure, did an uninstall, and the next time

> the

> install was tried it finished fine and the replacement device worked.

>

> What should we have done (or still might want to do)? Remember, the

> scanner

> stopping working was the original problem and the corrupt .dll file

> messages

> happened while trying to fix the problem.

>

> I'm assuming a registry clean is one of the things to do. Is the only

> other

> thing a Repair?

>

> Moving on the the backup strategy and whether there is still an option she

> might have available.

>

> We both have good backup habits, meaning we do them every week or so. I

> use

> Retrospect and she uses the Bounce Back that came with her Seagate

> external

> HD. I have to check with her on what BB is backing up and whether it's

> incremental.

>

> Let's assume that she has full system backups. Are you implying that she

> can "just" restore everything but the Documents folders to put the system

> back to a place before the failures began? In the case of the 2 .dll

> files

> that were said to be corrupted, the create and update dates are quite old

> which I assume means they are in an uncorrputed state on the backups.

>

> Should she restore those two .dll files? Is that dangerous? Can it be

> done

> while the Windows is running?

>

> Let's turn now to the backup strategy and the idea of images.

>

> From your note doing a "complete" backup periodically is the idea. Do

> incrementals count or are those mostly for documents (in case they are

> lost

> or a bad update is saved)?

>

> What about the idea of images (which is what I'm assuming she has on her

> ThinkPad from Lenova)? How do images differ from backups? Are they used

> to

> boot from (just in case) or are they used to restore Windows if needed?

>

> As you can tell, my interest is to learn and avoid what one poster called

> the "cyber journey".

>

> Sorry for the fragmented post. I'm not sure even how to ask some of the

> questions yet.

>

> Tom

Tom:

First of all, with respect to "registry cleaners". I am far from being a fan

of those types of programs. Over the years I've seen so many problems

resulting from deficient programs of that type or user mishandling of same

that by & large we recommend against their use as a general proposition. I

realize there are many users who apparently use them with great gusto and

repeatedly sing their praises. I'm just not one of them. In any event I

seriously doubt a "cleaning" of the registry would have returned your

friend's scanner to a functional state.

If I correctly understand your post, you're indicating that your friend's

replacement scanner is properly functioning although you're still puzzled as

to the cause & remedy of the problem she was experiencing with her original

non-defective scanner. It's nearly impossible for me to diagnose what caused

the precise problem she was having let alone the specific solution to that

problem. It's possible a Repair install of the XP OS might have corrected

the problem or possibly other approaches such as the chkdsk and sfc/scannow

commands could have been tried to good effect - the preceding assuming, of

course, that the problem involved some corrupted system files that caused

the problem and not a driver issue.

All of which leads me to emphasize my original response to your query re the

importance (in my view) of a user establishing & maintaining a comprehensive

backup system whereby *all* the data on the user's day-to-day working HDD

would, in effect, be copied to another HDD so as to create a precise copy of

the "source" HDD at a particular point in time.

To that end our preference is for a user to employ a disk-to-disk cloning

program or disk-imaging program and use such as a systematic backup program.

There's a better-than-even chance that had your friend had such a program in

place at the time the scanner problem arose, her following difficulties

would likely have been avoided in that she would have been able to

relatively easily restore her system to a bootable, functional state

including the problem-free operation of her scanner.

You mentioned the Retrospect & BounceBack backup programs. I did work with

the Retrospect program some time ago. As I recall it was (is) basically

designed to back up user-created data; it is not a disk-cloning or

disk-imaging program as I recall. In any event I do recall that I wasn't

particularly thrilled with that program but I can't recall the details.

I am not at all familiar with the BounceBack program. Assuming that program

is a disk-cloning or disk-imaging program and your friend had previously

cloned or imaged the contents of her internal HDD to her (presumably) USB

external HDD prior to the time her scanner problem arose, could she not have

resurrected her system and thus return to a functional scanner through the

use of that program?

The disk-to-disk cloning program we greatly prefer is the Casper 5 program -

see http://www.fssdev.com

The Casper program is extremely simple to use even for an inexperienced

user, reasonably quick in operation, and quite effective. There's virtually

no

learning curve in undertaking the disk cloning process as one navigates

through the few easy-to-understand screens with a final mouse-click on the

button on the screen which will trigger the disk-cloning process. After

undertaking one or two disk-cloning operations it should take the user no

more than 15 - 20 seconds or so to get to that point.

But the truly significant advantage of the Casper 5.0 disk cloning program

compared with other disk cloning programs that we're familiar with, e.g.,

Acronis True Image, is its ability to create *incremental* disk clones

following the creation of the original (first) disk clone. Employing what

Casper calls its "SmartClone" technology the program can create subsequent

disk clones of the source HDD usually at a fraction of the time it takes to

create a "full" disk clone. This results in a decided incentive for the user

to undertake frequent complete backups of his or her system knowing that

they can create "incremental" disk clones in a relatively short period of

time. Understand that this "incremental disk clone" is a *complete* clone

(copy) of the "source" HDD.

Bear in mind that the recipient of the clone - the "destination" HDD

(internal or external) - would contain the *complete* contents of one's

internal HDD (presumably the boot drive). Since that destination drive would

be a precise copy of the source HDD, its contents would be immediately

accessible and potentially bootable. Naturally its contents could be cloned

back to a internal HDD should a restoration of the system be necessary.

Again, what better backup system can one have? And again - because the

Casper disk-cloning operation takes a relatively short period of time to

complete its disk-cloning operations there's a strong incentive for the user

to more frequently keep their backups up-to-date than they might otherwise

do.

Again, I want to emphasize that the main advantage of the Casper 5 program

in comparison with other disk-cloning programs is its rather remarkable

ability to *routinely* clone the contents of one HDD to another HDD

(following the initial disk-cloning process) in a fraction of the time it

generally takes for other disk-cloning (as well as disk-imaging) programs to

complete the process. In my experience this is a strong incentive for the

user to back up their systems on a frequent basis - perhaps even once a day

or two or three times a week - knowing that the disk-cloning operation will

take only a few short minutes to complete the process. And at the end of

that process the user will have at hand a "perfect copy" of their day-to-day

working HDD. I ask again - what better backup system can one have? And have

it in a relatively short time?

The Casper 5.0 program is also capable of scheduling the disk-cloning

process on a daily, weekly, or other time period selected by the user so

that should the user prefer he or she could arrange for automatic backups at

pre-determined times.

There's a trial version available at

http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/trial/ although it's somewhat crippled

it should give one a good idea as to how the program works.

The downside to the Casper 5 program as compared with the Acronis and most

other disk-cloning programs is the cost of the program which comes to $49.95

for the program + $9.95 for the "Casper Startup Disk" (the program to create

the bootable CD containing the Casper program - needed to access the program

in the event of a failed HDD). This "Startup Disk" is really an essential

piece of the program; I can't imagine a Casper user not having this media.

It's a pity that this "Startup Disk" is an added-cost option; in our view it

should be provided as part of the overall program and included in the

program's $49.95 cost. We have complained to the developer about this but

alas that additional cost for the "Startup Disk" is still present.

So the cost of the program is more expensive than the others. Be that as it

may, in our view it's still well worth the additional cost considering its

overall

effectiveness and the fact that one will be using the program many, many

times over the weeks, months, and years ahead. We've introduced the program

to many users (including former ATI users) and I can't recall a single

person who regretted his/her purchase. AFAIK, the program is available only

through download from the developer.

Another possible downside to the Casper 5 program (depending upon one's

interests) is that it's really not designed to create "generational" copies

of one's system although it is possible to use the program that way

depending upon the size of one's data and the disk size of the "destination"

HDD (the recipient of the clones). Some users like to maintain complete

copies of their system at various points in time. In other words, for

example, a user might want to retain (for one reason or another) a complete

copy of his or her system as it existed on July 1 and another copy as of

July 3 and another copy as of July 5, etc., etc. To that end a disk-imaging

program (such as the Acronis one) is more practical since to accomplish that

objective using a disk-cloning program such as Casper 5 the user would

obviously need a fair number of HDDs to serve as the recipients of the

clones at those various points in time. But based on our experience I would

say that the vast number of users are simply interested in maintaining only

a current up-to-date copy of their system and have little or no interest in

maintaining "generational" copies of such. But that capability may be a

consideration for some users.

So I would recommend that you or any user who is interested in a

comprehensive backup program should try the Casper 5 program to determine if

that program meets their needs.

Anna

June 16, 2008

Re: General instructions to re-install Windows XP

Tim

Again, I am so grateful for the time you, Anna, and others are taking here.

It's beginning to make some sense for me (and hopefully for others). I'll be

asking more questions of Anna on cloning, etc. For you are questions about

the applications. Both of you are striking a theme of good habits for backup

and documentation just in case restores are needed.

It looks like the three major groups of "stuff" on a system are Windows (I'm

ignoring BIOS and DOS here), the applications, and user data. I'll persue

Windows in a reply to Anna.

> A partial checklist is in:

> Start | Settings | Control Panel | Add or Remove Programs

>

> That is a list of programs that were installed. In addition to that

> are the programs which can be executed but didn't need installation

> that may be listed in C:/Program Files as .exe files.

>

> There may also be various browser plug-ins listed in your browser.

The checklist sounds like add/remove, executables in Program Files, and

browser plug ins.

Remembering I'm here to learn, not solve a particular problem, when do

executables require installation and when don't they?

> Don't forget to back up your email files and your Favorites (Booknotes)

> file, too.

I've taken the path to understanding .pst files (Outlook) and can find the

bookmark files for my browsers (IE and Firefox) on my own.

Focusing on Outlook (in my case), there are also settings (e.g. accounts).

I've never had to look for those but during a restore it would be nice to

bypass the task of re-entering all the email account data (POP, SMTP, etc.)

by just doing a restore.

There are so many configuration settings in Windows (accounts, power

options, etc.) and in applications (like Outlook) it seems like a tough one

to prepare to restore. Is there any pattern or practice or is it just get

each one documented in the "checklist"?

Finally, the Lenovo:

>

> That System Restore partition contains the image of the hard drive

> as it came from the factory - without your data files, without any

> programs which you may have installed since then, and WITH the

> trialware junk that OEMs put on their machines. Don't use that

> System Restore unless you've backed up ALL your data and any

> programs which you've installed. Most people, after a couple months,

> just reformat that partition and use it for data storage.

>

Is the "image of the hard drive" simple mean it is structured like Windows

Explorer would display for the C drive? (I know this is one of those 'just

look for yourself, you lazy bum' questions, but remember I don't have the

Lenovo - it's the one my friend has and from what we talked about on the

phone the other day she can't "see" another drive (partition) when she goes

to My Computer.)

Assuming it is structured like the C partition, is the system restore

process for Lenovo just wiping out the C drive and putting it back the way it

came from the factory? (ugly!!!)

Can that partition be used as a bootable if the C gets clobbered or is it

best to create bootable CDs for emergencies? (I've done some preliminary

searching on the net for creating bootables but I haven't found the "happy

path" for a system with no floppy).

Thanks again

Tom

June 16, 2008

Re: General instructions to re-install Windows XP

> First of all, with respect to "registry cleaners". I am far from being a fan

> of those types of programs. Over the years I've seen so many problems

> resulting from deficient programs of that type or user mishandling of same

> that by & large we recommend against their use as a general proposition. I

> realize there are many users who apparently use them with great gusto and

> repeatedly sing their praises. I'm just not one of them. In any event I

> seriously doubt a "cleaning" of the registry would have returned your

> friend's scanner to a functional state.

Thanks for the advice not to make Registry cleaners a religion. I've only

used one once and it appears it did correct a problem that was causing a very

look restart on my laptop. We did run it on my friends laptop and one of the

..dll failures went away but I can't in all honesty say the two were related.

I don't like using programs that mess with key files much unless they come

from the vendor themselves so your advice is accepted with relief.

> If I correctly understand your post, you're indicating that your friend's

> replacement scanner is properly functioning although you're still puzzled as

> to the cause & remedy of the problem she was experiencing with her original

> non-defective scanner. It's nearly impossible for me to diagnose what caused

> the precise problem she was having let alone the specific solution to that

> problem. It's possible a Repair install of the XP OS might have corrected

> the problem or possibly other approaches such as the chkdsk and sfc/scannow

> commands could have been tried to good effect - the preceding assuming, of

> course, that the problem involved some corrupted system files that caused

> the problem and not a driver issue.

I didn't come here to get the scanner situation resolved although I will do

a second reply post to take you through the history. From your post I'm

focused on getting into the backup habits so both of us (and for that matter

the other two PCs in my household) are prepared.

> All of which leads me to emphasize my original response to your query re the

> importance (in my view) of a user establishing & maintaining a comprehensive

> backup system whereby *all* the data on the user's day-to-day working HDD

> would, in effect, be copied to another HDD so as to create a precise copy of

> the "source" HDD at a particular point in time.

>

> To that end our preference is for a user to employ a disk-to-disk cloning

> program or disk-imaging program and use such as a systematic backup program.

>

> There's a better-than-even chance that had your friend had such a program in

> place at the time the scanner problem arose, her following difficulties

> would likely have been avoided in that she would have been able to

> relatively easily restore her system to a bootable, functional state

> including the problem-free operation of her scanner.

Anna, let me make sure I understand what d2d cloning or imaging programs

actually do. Tim mentioned that the Lenovo second HDD partition contained a

duplicate of the C drive when the system came from the factory. Is this what

these cloning utilities produce? In other words, would Windows Explorer show

them in a directory structure?

> You mentioned the Retrospect & BounceBack backup programs. I did work with

> the Retrospect program some time ago. As I recall it was (is) basically

> designed to back up user-created data; it is not a disk-cloning or

> disk-imaging program as I recall. In any event I do recall that I wasn't

> particularly thrilled with that program but I can't recall the details.

>

> I am not at all familiar with the BounceBack program. Assuming that program

> is a disk-cloning or disk-imaging program and your friend had previously

> cloned or imaged the contents of her internal HDD to her (presumably) USB

> external HDD prior to the time her scanner problem arose, could she not have

> resurrected her system and thus return to a functional scanner through the

> use of that program?

Retrospect (and I think BB) can back up every file on a system. I think BB

and Retrospect are competing apps and the version of BB my friend has is the

"express" version that Seagate included when you buy their external HDD (I

also have a Seagate external so have a copy of the same BB but I purchased

the commercial version of Retrospect some time ago. I have a Mac and 2 PC

laptops and wanted something a bit more capable than the free express

version).

Since I'm not sure what the cloning/imaging programs do (yet) lets see if we

might have a backup that my friend could use to restore (if needed). Also,

since your mantra is an intellegently designed backup discipline I'd like to

make sure I understand the tool differences.

I have to do some homework to remember how BB works but I think it does an

incremental backup in windows format. Retrospect (the commercial version),

on the other hand, has the option to store the backups in one file and keeps

an external directory file or to produce a "copy" in the file format of the

system being backed up.

In my case I do incremental backups until the backup file gets pretty large.

Since I never got to a file size that is "pretty large" until very recently,

I've never thought of what to do next but my thought is to start another file

keeping the -1 version until it was safe to delete it. As I sit here and

think about this now I realize that I had no backup strategy that I put into

practice to periodically start a new backup file from scratch. Retrospect

does this "start a new file" quite nicely. It has 3 types of backups: normal

which is an incremental, recycle which reuses the media (e.g. does a full

backup wiping out the previous backup, and "????" which is just like the

recycle type but it doesn't wipe out the old file (i.e. it creates a new

version).

I'm not taking the time to explain this because of Retrospect, but as a way

of comparing it to cloning and imaging utilities (why buy something new if

the old works reasonably well). You are right, however, that it may be the

right thing is to use both; Retrospect for user data and another utility for

the OS.

> The disk-to-disk cloning program we greatly prefer is the Casper 5 program -

> see http://www.fssdev.com

>

I'll do my homework by looking closely at Casper. Regardless of what I (we)

choose to do I'd like to go back and see what one might do with a clone on a

HDD. This will start moving the discussion to me building a backup strategy

(and one for my friend) and learning what to do when we run into problems.

In a separate post to Tim I've asked some questions about the content of the

PC (e.g. OS, applications, user data). It seems to me that understanding

(and inventoring) what data is stored where is an important learning. The OS

and applications, for example, have configuration settings (accounts, power

options, networks, etc.). Isn't it important to know where these are stored?

If I were cloning I might want (like with Lenovo) to have an image of the

current OS files (hopefully bootable) in case. I might even want that to

include the applications. Since both my friend and I have external HDDs,

there's enough room to store these for emergencies and restores.

But what's stored where?

Can I assume that it would be a good idea to do an inventory of my C drive

as part of the plan for a backup discipline? I'm not talking about down the

the file level (except to id where key data is stored) but more a folder

inventory at the top level. For example, a quick look at my C shows a dozen

or so folders and a few files. Some of the folders (program files, documents

and settings) are familiar, while others are not.

I have a folder, for example, called 9a5160959c527400938408 which contains a

txt file with the first record having the text "starting verbose logging".

Given the date it looks like it was something I did when plowing through my

windows xp upgrade problem. So, again, is it the right first step to do a

reasonably thorough configuration description of the files to prepare to

putting together a good backup strategy?

Tom

June 16, 2008