Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk'?

[Guest Bill Cook]

Yesterday, my system blue-screened. I'm trying to at least see if I can run

chkdsk or look at directories by running the recovery console. (Already

tried safe mode and other boot possibilities).

 

It's been displaying 'Examining 238473 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on

atapi...' for more than 12 hours now. I don't see the drive light flashing.

I know that the drive is pretty big, but when do I give up and try something

else? ...and what else do I try??

[Guest Malke]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk'?

 

Bill Cook wrote:

> Yesterday, my system blue-screened. I'm trying to at least see if I can

> run

> chkdsk or look at directories by running the recovery console. (Already

> tried safe mode and other boot possibilities).

>

> It's been displaying 'Examining 238473 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on

> atapi...' for more than 12 hours now. I don't see the drive light

> flashing. I know that the drive is pretty big, but when do I give up and

> try something

> else? ...and what else do I try??

 

You give up now. I certainly would have done so hours ago. Without knowing

what the blue screen said (Stop Error) I can only guess that your hard

drive (or some other hardware component) is failing.

 

You know your own skills best to decide whether you do hardware

troubleshooting yourself or take the machine to a competent local

professional (not a BigComputerStore type of place).

 

Malke

--

MS-MVP

Elephant Boy Computers

http://www.elephantboycomputers.com

Don't Panic!

[Guest Anna]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk'?

 

 

"Bill Cook" <Bill Cook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:5CFA738A-B89A-4922-B624-64E0637F60E2@microsoft.com...

> Yesterday, my system blue-screened. I'm trying to at least see if I can

> run

> chkdsk or look at directories by running the recovery console. (Already

> tried safe mode and other boot possibilities).

>

> It's been displaying 'Examining 238473 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on

> atapi...' for more than 12 hours now. I don't see the drive light

> flashing.

> I know that the drive is pretty big, but when do I give up and try

> something

> else? ...and what else do I try??

 

 

Bill:

While it does sound like a defective HDD why don't you at least check it out

with the diagnostic utility that's generally available from the website of

the disk's manufacturer? Depending upon the results we can go on from there.

Anna

[Guest Bill Cook]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Thank you, Malke. I'm looking into some local shops. I've also contacted

the HD vendor (Anna's suggestion), to see if there are any diagnostics that I

might be able to run beforehand.

 

"Malke" wrote:

> Bill Cook wrote:

>

> > Yesterday, my system blue-screened. I'm trying to at least see if I can

> > run

> > chkdsk or look at directories by running the recovery console. (Already

> > tried safe mode and other boot possibilities).

> >

> > It's been displaying 'Examining 238473 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on

> > atapi...' for more than 12 hours now. I don't see the drive light

> > flashing. I know that the drive is pretty big, but when do I give up and

> > try something

> > else? ...and what else do I try??

>

> You give up now. I certainly would have done so hours ago. Without knowing

> what the blue screen said (Stop Error) I can only guess that your hard

> drive (or some other hardware component) is failing.

>

> You know your own skills best to decide whether you do hardware

> troubleshooting yourself or take the machine to a competent local

> professional (not a BigComputerStore type of place).

>

> Malke

> --

> MS-MVP

> Elephant Boy Computers

> http://www.elephantboycomputers.com

> Don't Panic!

>

[Guest Bill Cook]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Thank you, Anna. I've contacted the vendor to see if there are any

diagnostics that I might be able to run before taking it to the shop. (Worst

case, the vendor will 'only' charge $1400 USD to get the data back - ouch!)

 

"Anna" wrote:

>

> "Bill Cook" <Bill Cook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:5CFA738A-B89A-4922-B624-64E0637F60E2@microsoft.com...

> > Yesterday, my system blue-screened. I'm trying to at least see if I can

> > run

> > chkdsk or look at directories by running the recovery console. (Already

> > tried safe mode and other boot possibilities).

> >

> > It's been displaying 'Examining 238473 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on

> > atapi...' for more than 12 hours now. I don't see the drive light

> > flashing.

> > I know that the drive is pretty big, but when do I give up and try

> > something

> > else? ...and what else do I try??

>

>

> Bill:

> While it does sound like a defective HDD why don't you at least check it out

> with the diagnostic utility that's generally available from the website of

> the disk's manufacturer? Depending upon the results we can go on from there.

> Anna

>

>

>

[Guest Malke]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Bill Cook wrote:

> Thank you, Malke. I'm looking into some local shops. I've also contacted

> the HD vendor (Anna's suggestion), to see if there are any diagnostics

> that I might be able to run beforehand.

>

 

That's a wise move. If the hard drive is damaged, no local company is going

to be able to retrieve your data. It will require a professional data

recovery company such as Drive Savers (my preference) or Seagate Data

Recovery or the like. In that case, $1400 is the middle range of what you

can expect to pay.

 

http://www.drivesavers.com

 

Malke

--

MS-MVP

Elephant Boy Computers

http://www.elephantboycomputers.com

Don't Panic!

[Guest Bill Cook]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Anna,

 

Last night, I ran the SeaTools diagnostic (both the short and long tests)

and both passed, so it doesn't seem to be a hardware issue.

 

In the next couple of days, I'm going to invest in a USB case and new drive

to use as a backup. If I'm able to read my problem drive's data via the USB

case, I'll back up the data by shuttling it to the new drive little by little

with my laptop as the intermediary. After I have my data in two places, I'll

be more confident about trying other things (running chkdsk, doing a repair

install, etc).

 

I'll keep you posted, and thanks again for the help so far,

 

Bill

 

"Anna" wrote:

>

> "Bill Cook" <Bill Cook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:5CFA738A-B89A-4922-B624-64E0637F60E2@microsoft.com...

> > Yesterday, my system blue-screened. I'm trying to at least see if I can

> > run

> > chkdsk or look at directories by running the recovery console. (Already

> > tried safe mode and other boot possibilities).

> >

> > It's been displaying 'Examining 238473 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on

> > atapi...' for more than 12 hours now. I don't see the drive light

> > flashing.

> > I know that the drive is pretty big, but when do I give up and try

> > something

> > else? ...and what else do I try??

>

>

> Bill:

> While it does sound like a defective HDD why don't you at least check it out

> with the diagnostic utility that's generally available from the website of

> the disk's manufacturer? Depending upon the results we can go on from there.

> Anna

>

>

>

[Guest mcnews]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk'?

 

On Jun 15, 1:27 pm, Bill Cook <Bill C...@discussions.microsoft.com>

wrote:

> Yesterday, my system blue-screened. I'm trying to at least see if I can run

> chkdsk or look at directories by running the recovery console. (Already

> tried safe mode and other boot possibilities).

>

> It's been displaying 'Examining 238473 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on

> atapi...' for more than 12 hours now. I don't see the drive light flashing.

> I know that the drive is pretty big, but when do I give up and try something

> else? ...and what else do I try??

 

you can try to reinstall/recover.

that's what i had to do and haven't had a problem for several months

now..

i also heard that you can put the harddrive in the freezer for 45

minutes.

this seems to work with seagate drives that have heat damage.

the drive will work at least long enough to recover data.

[Guest Anna]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

>>

>> "Bill Cook" <Bill Cook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:5CFA738A-B89A-4922-B624-64E0637F60E2@microsoft.com...

>> > Yesterday, my system blue-screened. I'm trying to at least see if I

>> > can

>> > run

>> > chkdsk or look at directories by running the recovery console.

>> > (Already

>> > tried safe mode and other boot possibilities).

>> >

>> > It's been displaying 'Examining 238473 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on

>> > atapi...' for more than 12 hours now. I don't see the drive light

>> > flashing.

>> > I know that the drive is pretty big, but when do I give up and try

>> > something

>> > else? ...and what else do I try??

 

> "Anna" wrote:

>> Bill:

>> While it does sound like a defective HDD why don't you at least check it

>> out

>> with the diagnostic utility that's generally available from the website

>> of

>> the disk's manufacturer? Depending upon the results we can go on from

>> there.

>> Anna

 

 

"Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:CADE3F99-C04C-4D0D-888C-CB5B925DB6DF@microsoft.com...

> Anna,

> Last night, I ran the SeaTools diagnostic (both the short and long tests)

> and both passed, so it doesn't seem to be a hardware issue.

>

> In the next couple of days, I'm going to invest in a USB case and new

> drive

> to use as a backup. If I'm able to read my problem drive's data via the

> USB

> case, I'll back up the data by shuttling it to the new drive little by

> little

> with my laptop as the intermediary. After I have my data in two places,

> I'll

> be more confident about trying other things (running chkdsk, doing a

> repair

> install, etc).

>

> I'll keep you posted, and thanks again for the help so far,

>

> Bill

 

 

Bill:

Glad to hear it appears the HDD is non-defective. Hopefully you'll be able

to access its contents through the course of action you've indicated. In

that vein please consider the following approach...

 

Now that you'll have a USB external enclosure and another HDD at your

disposal that ultimately will be (hopefully) used as part of a routine

backup system, consider purchasing a disk-cloning or disk-imaging program

which you could use systematically to backup the complete contents of your

day-to-day internal HDD. So that you will always have at hand a reasonably

up-to-date backup of the *complete* contents of your internal HDD, including

the OS, all your programs & applications, all your user-created data, etc.

So should a similar problem as the one you're currently experiencing raise

its ugly head again you would have the wherewithal to easily resurrect your

system to a bootable functional state with all programs & data intact. It's

hard to imagine a better backup system, right?

 

Should you decide to go that route you might want to consider another

approach to return your present internal HDD to a bootable, functional state

at this point in time

 

1. Install the new HDD in its USB external enclosure. (I'm assuming these

will be separate components which I think is a good idea rather than a

commercial one-piece unit. If you're using SATA HDDs or plan to use one in

your current system, purchase an enclosure that provides SATA connectivity

(usually through a eSATA port) in addition to USB connectivity. The

difference in cost is minimal).

 

2. Using a disk-cloning program (presumably you would be using the bootable

"Startup Disk" (CD) which contains the disk-cloning program and which

virtually all disk-cloning programs allow you to create), clone the contents

of your problem Seagate HDD to the new HDD in its external enclosure.

 

3. Knowing that you now have a precise copy of your internal HDD, you can

feel free to run a Repair install on your internal HDD and/or use other

approaches, e.g., chkdsk, sfc /scannow, etc. to see if you can return the

problem drive to a bootable, functional state.

Anna

[Guest Bill Cook]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Anna,

 

I'll take your advice and purchase some cloning software along with the new

drive and SATA/USB case tomorrow. I'm assuming that Acronis True Image Home

will do.

 

Tonight, I tried booting from the Ultimate Boot CD for Windows, just to see

if I could see data on the drive, but it couldn't read the C drive - said it

was corrupt. We'll see what happens when I try to clone the drive and then

try running other tools.

 

Thanks for hanging in there with me...

 

Bill

 

"Anna" wrote:

>

> >>

> >> "Bill Cook" <Bill Cook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> >> news:5CFA738A-B89A-4922-B624-64E0637F60E2@microsoft.com...

> >> > Yesterday, my system blue-screened. I'm trying to at least see if I

> >> > can

> >> > run

> >> > chkdsk or look at directories by running the recovery console.

> >> > (Already

> >> > tried safe mode and other boot possibilities).

> >> >

> >> > It's been displaying 'Examining 238473 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on

> >> > atapi...' for more than 12 hours now. I don't see the drive light

> >> > flashing.

> >> > I know that the drive is pretty big, but when do I give up and try

> >> > something

> >> > else? ...and what else do I try??

>

>

> > "Anna" wrote:

> >> Bill:

> >> While it does sound like a defective HDD why don't you at least check it

> >> out

> >> with the diagnostic utility that's generally available from the website

> >> of

> >> the disk's manufacturer? Depending upon the results we can go on from

> >> there.

> >> Anna

>

>

> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:CADE3F99-C04C-4D0D-888C-CB5B925DB6DF@microsoft.com...

> > Anna,

> > Last night, I ran the SeaTools diagnostic (both the short and long tests)

> > and both passed, so it doesn't seem to be a hardware issue.

> >

> > In the next couple of days, I'm going to invest in a USB case and new

> > drive

> > to use as a backup. If I'm able to read my problem drive's data via the

> > USB

> > case, I'll back up the data by shuttling it to the new drive little by

> > little

> > with my laptop as the intermediary. After I have my data in two places,

> > I'll

> > be more confident about trying other things (running chkdsk, doing a

> > repair

> > install, etc).

> >

> > I'll keep you posted, and thanks again for the help so far,

> >

> > Bill

>

>

> Bill:

> Glad to hear it appears the HDD is non-defective. Hopefully you'll be able

> to access its contents through the course of action you've indicated. In

> that vein please consider the following approach...

>

> Now that you'll have a USB external enclosure and another HDD at your

> disposal that ultimately will be (hopefully) used as part of a routine

> backup system, consider purchasing a disk-cloning or disk-imaging program

> which you could use systematically to backup the complete contents of your

> day-to-day internal HDD. So that you will always have at hand a reasonably

> up-to-date backup of the *complete* contents of your internal HDD, including

> the OS, all your programs & applications, all your user-created data, etc.

> So should a similar problem as the one you're currently experiencing raise

> its ugly head again you would have the wherewithal to easily resurrect your

> system to a bootable functional state with all programs & data intact. It's

> hard to imagine a better backup system, right?

>

> Should you decide to go that route you might want to consider another

> approach to return your present internal HDD to a bootable, functional state

> at this point in time

>

> 1. Install the new HDD in its USB external enclosure. (I'm assuming these

> will be separate components which I think is a good idea rather than a

> commercial one-piece unit. If you're using SATA HDDs or plan to use one in

> your current system, purchase an enclosure that provides SATA connectivity

> (usually through a eSATA port) in addition to USB connectivity. The

> difference in cost is minimal).

>

> 2. Using a disk-cloning program (presumably you would be using the bootable

> "Startup Disk" (CD) which contains the disk-cloning program and which

> virtually all disk-cloning programs allow you to create), clone the contents

> of your problem Seagate HDD to the new HDD in its external enclosure.

>

> 3. Knowing that you now have a precise copy of your internal HDD, you can

> feel free to run a Repair install on your internal HDD and/or use other

> approaches, e.g., chkdsk, sfc /scannow, etc. to see if you can return the

> problem drive to a bootable, functional state.

> Anna

>

>

>

[Guest PD43]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Bill Cook <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Anna,

>

>I'll take your advice and purchase some cloning software along with the new

>drive and SATA/USB case tomorrow. I'm assuming that Acronis True Image Home

>will do.

 

It will do quite nicely. Get it at Newegg.com - about $25 and free

3-day shipping.

 

>

>Tonight, I tried booting from the Ultimate Boot CD for Windows, just to see

>if I could see data on the drive, but it couldn't read the C drive - said it

>was corrupt. We'll see what happens when I try to clone the drive and then

>try running other tools.

>

>Thanks for hanging in there with me...

>

>Bill

>

>"Anna" wrote:

>

>>

>> >>

>> >> "Bill Cook" <Bill Cook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> >> news:5CFA738A-B89A-4922-B624-64E0637F60E2@microsoft.com...

>> >> > Yesterday, my system blue-screened. I'm trying to at least see if I

>> >> > can

>> >> > run

>> >> > chkdsk or look at directories by running the recovery console.

>> >> > (Already

>> >> > tried safe mode and other boot possibilities).

>> >> >

>> >> > It's been displaying 'Examining 238473 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on

>> >> > atapi...' for more than 12 hours now. I don't see the drive light

>> >> > flashing.

>> >> > I know that the drive is pretty big, but when do I give up and try

>> >> > something

>> >> > else? ...and what else do I try??

>>

>>

>> > "Anna" wrote:

>> >> Bill:

>> >> While it does sound like a defective HDD why don't you at least check it

>> >> out

>> >> with the diagnostic utility that's generally available from the website

>> >> of

>> >> the disk's manufacturer? Depending upon the results we can go on from

>> >> there.

>> >> Anna

>>

>>

>> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:CADE3F99-C04C-4D0D-888C-CB5B925DB6DF@microsoft.com...

>> > Anna,

>> > Last night, I ran the SeaTools diagnostic (both the short and long tests)

>> > and both passed, so it doesn't seem to be a hardware issue.

>> >

>> > In the next couple of days, I'm going to invest in a USB case and new

>> > drive

>> > to use as a backup. If I'm able to read my problem drive's data via the

>> > USB

>> > case, I'll back up the data by shuttling it to the new drive little by

>> > little

>> > with my laptop as the intermediary. After I have my data in two places,

>> > I'll

>> > be more confident about trying other things (running chkdsk, doing a

>> > repair

>> > install, etc).

>> >

>> > I'll keep you posted, and thanks again for the help so far,

>> >

>> > Bill

>>

>>

>> Bill:

>> Glad to hear it appears the HDD is non-defective. Hopefully you'll be able

>> to access its contents through the course of action you've indicated. In

>> that vein please consider the following approach...

>>

>> Now that you'll have a USB external enclosure and another HDD at your

>> disposal that ultimately will be (hopefully) used as part of a routine

>> backup system, consider purchasing a disk-cloning or disk-imaging program

>> which you could use systematically to backup the complete contents of your

>> day-to-day internal HDD. So that you will always have at hand a reasonably

>> up-to-date backup of the *complete* contents of your internal HDD, including

>> the OS, all your programs & applications, all your user-created data, etc.

>> So should a similar problem as the one you're currently experiencing raise

>> its ugly head again you would have the wherewithal to easily resurrect your

>> system to a bootable functional state with all programs & data intact. It's

>> hard to imagine a better backup system, right?

>>

>> Should you decide to go that route you might want to consider another

>> approach to return your present internal HDD to a bootable, functional state

>> at this point in time

>>

>> 1. Install the new HDD in its USB external enclosure. (I'm assuming these

>> will be separate components which I think is a good idea rather than a

>> commercial one-piece unit. If you're using SATA HDDs or plan to use one in

>> your current system, purchase an enclosure that provides SATA connectivity

>> (usually through a eSATA port) in addition to USB connectivity. The

>> difference in cost is minimal).

>>

>> 2. Using a disk-cloning program (presumably you would be using the bootable

>> "Startup Disk" (CD) which contains the disk-cloning program and which

>> virtually all disk-cloning programs allow you to create), clone the contents

>> of your problem Seagate HDD to the new HDD in its external enclosure.

>>

>> 3. Knowing that you now have a precise copy of your internal HDD, you can

>> feel free to run a Repair install on your internal HDD and/or use other

>> approaches, e.g., chkdsk, sfc /scannow, etc. to see if you can return the

>> problem drive to a bootable, functional state.

>> Anna

>>

>>

>>

[Guest Anna]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

>> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:CADE3F99-C04C-4D0D-888C-CB5B925DB6DF@microsoft.com...

>> > Anna,

>> > Last night, I ran the SeaTools diagnostic (both the short and long

>> > tests)

>> > and both passed, so it doesn't seem to be a hardware issue.

>> >

>> > In the next couple of days, I'm going to invest in a USB case and new

>> > drive to use as a backup. If I'm able to read my problem drive's data

>> > via >> > the USB case, I'll back up the data by shuttling it to the new

>> > drive little by

>> > little with my laptop as the intermediary. After I have my data in two

>> > places, I'll be more confident about trying other things (running

>> > chkdsk,

>> > doing a repair install, etc).

>> >

>> > I'll keep you posted, and thanks again for the help so far,

>> >

>> > Bill

 

> "Anna" wrote:

>> Bill:

>> Glad to hear it appears the HDD is non-defective. Hopefully you'll be

>> able

>> to access its contents through the course of action you've indicated. In

>> that vein please consider the following approach...

>>

>> Now that you'll have a USB external enclosure and another HDD at your

>> disposal that ultimately will be (hopefully) used as part of a routine

>> backup system, consider purchasing a disk-cloning or disk-imaging

>> program which you could use systematically to backup the complete

>> contents of your day-to-day internal HDD. So that you will always have at

>> hand a reasonably up-to-date backup of the *complete* contents of your

>> internal HDD, including the OS, all your programs & applications, all

>> your

>> user-created data, etc.

>>

>> So should a similar problem as the one you're currently experiencing

>> raise

>> its ugly head again you would have the wherewithal to easily resurrect

>> your

>> system to a bootable functional state with all programs & data intact.

>> It's

>> hard to imagine a better backup system, right?

>>

>> Should you decide to go that route you might want to consider another

>> approach to return your present internal HDD to a bootable, functional

>> state

>> at this point in time

>>

>> 1. Install the new HDD in its USB external enclosure. (I'm assuming these

>> will be separate components which I think is a good idea rather than a

>> commercial one-piece unit. If you're using SATA HDDs or plan to use one

>> >> in your current system, purchase an enclosure that provides SATA

>> connectivity (usually through a eSATA port) in addition to USB

>> connectivity. >> The difference in cost is minimal).

>>

>> 2. Using a disk-cloning program (presumably you would be using the

>> bootable "Startup Disk" (CD) which contains the disk-cloning program and

>> >> which virtually all disk-cloning programs allow you to create), clone

>> the

>> contents of your problem Seagate HDD to the new HDD in its external

>> enclosure.

>>

>> 3. Knowing that you now have a precise copy of your internal HDD, you can

>> feel free to run a Repair install on your internal HDD and/or use other

>> approaches, e.g., chkdsk, sfc /scannow, etc. to see if you can return the

>> problem drive to a bootable, functional state.

>> Anna

 

 

"Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:9317FAA7-9D0B-4C31-9CA7-1601C43DE8D3@microsoft.com...

> Anna,

>

> I'll take your advice and purchase some cloning software along with the

> new

> drive and SATA/USB case tomorrow. I'm assuming that Acronis True Image >

> Home will do.

>

> Tonight, I tried booting from the Ultimate Boot CD for Windows, just to

> see

> if I could see data on the drive, but it couldn't read the C drive - said

> it

> was corrupt. We'll see what happens when I try to clone the drive and

> then

> try running other tools.

>

> Thanks for hanging in there with me...

>

> Bill

 

 

Bill:

As a general proposition you're making a wise choice re purchasing a disk

cloning program - one you'll never regret.

 

Obviously at this point when you clone the problem HDD to another HDD you'll

be (in effect) "cloning garbage to garbage". But in this case it's the

appropriate way to go since no matter what happens during the time you try

to resurrect that problem HDD (perhaps even making matters worse!), you'll

always have a precise copy of the drive as it now exists. It's a methodology

we nearly always employ in cases like this.

 

As to the disk cloning program...

 

The Acronis True Image program is a fine program and you should definitely

give it a try, especially since a full trial version is available at the

Acronis site.

 

The disk cloning program that we greatly prefer is the Casper 5 program. As

a disk-to-disk cloning program that will be used (as it should be) as a

comprehensive routine backup program, we find it superior to the Acronis

program for a variety of reasons. I can provide more info about that program

if you want.

 

In any event there is a trial version of the Casper 5 program available.

While it's slightly crippled it should give you a good idea of its

capability and you can compare it with the ATI program. You can download it

from...

http://www.fssdev.com/products/free/

Anna

[Guest Bill Cook]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Anna,

 

Would you happen to know if there is any way of making a bootable disk from

the Casper trial version?

 

Also, assuming that the drive HW is good (based on the Seagate tests), but

the contents of the data is mangled, will the Casper program still be able to

'find' my bad C drive in order to clone the 'garbage' to the remote new drive?

 

Bill

 

"Anna" wrote:

>

> >> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> >> news:CADE3F99-C04C-4D0D-888C-CB5B925DB6DF@microsoft.com...

> >> > Anna,

> >> > Last night, I ran the SeaTools diagnostic (both the short and long

> >> > tests)

> >> > and both passed, so it doesn't seem to be a hardware issue.

> >> >

> >> > In the next couple of days, I'm going to invest in a USB case and new

> >> > drive to use as a backup. If I'm able to read my problem drive's data

> >> > via >> > the USB case, I'll back up the data by shuttling it to the new

> >> > drive little by

> >> > little with my laptop as the intermediary. After I have my data in two

> >> > places, I'll be more confident about trying other things (running

> >> > chkdsk,

> >> > doing a repair install, etc).

> >> >

> >> > I'll keep you posted, and thanks again for the help so far,

> >> >

> >> > Bill

>

>

> > "Anna" wrote:

> >> Bill:

> >> Glad to hear it appears the HDD is non-defective. Hopefully you'll be

> >> able

> >> to access its contents through the course of action you've indicated. In

> >> that vein please consider the following approach...

> >>

> >> Now that you'll have a USB external enclosure and another HDD at your

> >> disposal that ultimately will be (hopefully) used as part of a routine

> >> backup system, consider purchasing a disk-cloning or disk-imaging

> >> program which you could use systematically to backup the complete

> >> contents of your day-to-day internal HDD. So that you will always have at

> >> hand a reasonably up-to-date backup of the *complete* contents of your

> >> internal HDD, including the OS, all your programs & applications, all

> >> your

> >> user-created data, etc.

> >>

> >> So should a similar problem as the one you're currently experiencing

> >> raise

> >> its ugly head again you would have the wherewithal to easily resurrect

> >> your

> >> system to a bootable functional state with all programs & data intact.

> >> It's

> >> hard to imagine a better backup system, right?

> >>

> >> Should you decide to go that route you might want to consider another

> >> approach to return your present internal HDD to a bootable, functional

> >> state

> >> at this point in time

> >>

> >> 1. Install the new HDD in its USB external enclosure. (I'm assuming these

> >> will be separate components which I think is a good idea rather than a

> >> commercial one-piece unit. If you're using SATA HDDs or plan to use one

> >> >> in your current system, purchase an enclosure that provides SATA

> >> connectivity (usually through a eSATA port) in addition to USB

> >> connectivity. >> The difference in cost is minimal).

> >>

> >> 2. Using a disk-cloning program (presumably you would be using the

> >> bootable "Startup Disk" (CD) which contains the disk-cloning program and

> >> >> which virtually all disk-cloning programs allow you to create), clone

> >> the

> >> contents of your problem Seagate HDD to the new HDD in its external

> >> enclosure.

> >>

> >> 3. Knowing that you now have a precise copy of your internal HDD, you can

> >> feel free to run a Repair install on your internal HDD and/or use other

> >> approaches, e.g., chkdsk, sfc /scannow, etc. to see if you can return the

> >> problem drive to a bootable, functional state.

> >> Anna

>

>

> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:9317FAA7-9D0B-4C31-9CA7-1601C43DE8D3@microsoft.com...

> > Anna,

> >

> > I'll take your advice and purchase some cloning software along with the

> > new

> > drive and SATA/USB case tomorrow. I'm assuming that Acronis True Image >

> > Home will do.

> >

> > Tonight, I tried booting from the Ultimate Boot CD for Windows, just to

> > see

> > if I could see data on the drive, but it couldn't read the C drive - said

> > it

> > was corrupt. We'll see what happens when I try to clone the drive and

> > then

> > try running other tools.

> >

> > Thanks for hanging in there with me...

> >

> > Bill

>

>

> Bill:

> As a general proposition you're making a wise choice re purchasing a disk

> cloning program - one you'll never regret.

>

> Obviously at this point when you clone the problem HDD to another HDD you'll

> be (in effect) "cloning garbage to garbage". But in this case it's the

> appropriate way to go since no matter what happens during the time you try

> to resurrect that problem HDD (perhaps even making matters worse!), you'll

> always have a precise copy of the drive as it now exists. It's a methodology

> we nearly always employ in cases like this.

>

> As to the disk cloning program...

>

> The Acronis True Image program is a fine program and you should definitely

> give it a try, especially since a full trial version is available at the

> Acronis site.

>

> The disk cloning program that we greatly prefer is the Casper 5 program. As

> a disk-to-disk cloning program that will be used (as it should be) as a

> comprehensive routine backup program, we find it superior to the Acronis

> program for a variety of reasons. I can provide more info about that program

> if you want.

>

> In any event there is a trial version of the Casper 5 program available.

> While it's slightly crippled it should give you a good idea of its

> capability and you can compare it with the ATI program. You can download it

> from...

> http://www.fssdev.com/products/free/

> Anna

>

>

>

[Guest Anna]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

>> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:9317FAA7-9D0B-4C31-9CA7-1601C43DE8D3@microsoft.com...

>> > Anna,

>> >

>> > I'll take your advice and purchase some cloning software along with the

>> > new drive and SATA/USB case tomorrow. I'm assuming that Acronis

>> >True Image Home will do.

>> >

>> > Tonight, I tried booting from the Ultimate Boot CD for Windows, just to

>> > see if I could see data on the drive, but it couldn't read the C

>> > drive - said

>> > it was corrupt. We'll see what happens when I try to clone the drive

>> > and

>> > then try running other tools.

>> >

>> > Thanks for hanging in there with me...

>> >

>> > Bill

 

>> "Anna" wrote:

>> Bill:

>> As a general proposition you're making a wise choice re purchasing a disk

>> cloning program - one you'll never regret.

>>

>> Obviously at this point when you clone the problem HDD to another HDD

>> you'll be (in effect) "cloning garbage to garbage". But in this case it's

>> the

>> appropriate way to go since no matter what happens during the time you

>> try

>> to resurrect that problem HDD (perhaps even making matters worse!),

>> you'll >> always have a precise copy of the drive as it now exists. It's

>> a methodology

>> we nearly always employ in cases like this.

>>

>> As to the disk cloning program...

>>

>> The Acronis True Image program is a fine program and you should

>> definitely give it a try, especially since a full trial version is

>> available at the

>> Acronis site.

>>

>> The disk cloning program that we greatly prefer is the Casper 5 program.

>> >> As a disk-to-disk cloning program that will be used (as it should be)

>> as a

>> comprehensive routine backup program, we find it superior to the Acronis

>> program for a variety of reasons. I can provide more info about that

>> program if you want.

>>

>> In any event there is a trial version of the Casper 5 program available.

>> While it's slightly crippled it should give you a good idea of its

>> capability and you can compare it with the ATI program. You can download

>> >> it from...

>> http://www.fssdev.com/products/free/

>> Anna

 

 

"Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:8C5ED360-977B-4DC3-A891-9AEF807A3BB4@microsoft.com...

> Anna,

> Would you happen to know if there is any way of making a bootable disk

> from the Casper trial version?

>

> Also, assuming that the drive HW is good (based on the Seagate tests), but

> the contents of the data is mangled, will the Casper program still be able

> to

> 'find' my bad C drive in order to clone the 'garbage' to the remote new

> drive?

> Bill

 

 

Bill:

Unfortunately, no - the trial version of Casper will not allow one to create

the "Startup Disk" (CD) which contains a bootable copy of the program that

the user could use to clone the contents of one's dysfunctional internal HDD

to his/her USB external HDD (or vice versa as in the case where the user

would be restoring his/her system from a previously cloned USBEHD).

 

The "Startup Disk" must be purchased separately from the program for an

add'l $9.95; it's not available in any trial version (nor can it be

purchased as a standalone program except to a licensed user). As a matter of

fact we've complained to the developer about this "optional" cost. I can't

imagine any user of the program *not* having the Startup Disk since it's

obviously an essential part of the program and in our view should really be

included in the cost of the basic program (as it is with the Acronis True

Image program).

 

But, alas, it isn't. However, we believe the program (it's a downloaded

executable file) is so good that it's worth the added cost of the program

plus the add'l cost of the Startup Disk as compared with other disk-cloning

programs that we've worked with, including Acronis True Image. Acronis does

however have the advantage of allowing the user to create its "Startup Disk"

(Acronis calls it their "Bootable Rescue Media") at no extra cost directly

from the installed program. And if I'm not mistaken the Acronis program on

its CD can be used as a "Startup Disk".

 

Anyway, since you're dealing with an unbootable, dysfunctional HDD there's

obviously no practical way to install the Casper program (trial or purchased

version) onto that drive so that you could test out the program. BTW, the

Casper "Startup Disk" is actually an .iso file that you use to burn the

bootable CD.

 

As I've indicated, the "Startup Disk" is ordinarily used in situations

(similar to your current situation) where the installed Casper program is

not accessible since the internal boot HDD is dysfunctional and the user

would be cloning the contents of his/her USB external HDD (used previously

as the recipient of the cloned contents of the internal HDD when the latter

was without problems) for restoration purposes.

 

What you could do if you're so inclined in order to at least test out the

Casper program is to download & install the program on your laptop and clone

the contents of the laptop to your USBEHD. Obviously this wouldn't solve

your problem but just give you some insight as to how the program works and

whether you think it will serve your needs better than another disk-cloning

(or disk-imaging) program such as the Acronis one.

 

And, as I've previously suggested, you should use the trial version of the

ATI program and compare programs.

 

I realize I haven't fully explained *why* we prefer the Casper program over

other disk-cloning (or disk-imaging) programs such as the Acronis one. If

you (or others coming upon this thread) would like to have this info please

so indicate and I'll post some add'l comments.

Anna

[Guest Timothy Daniels]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

"Anna" wrote:

> Bill:

> Unfortunately, no - the trial version of Casper will not allow

> one to create the "Startup Disk" (CD) which contains a

> bootable copy of the program that the user could use to

> clone the contents of one's dysfunctional internal HDD to his/her USB external

> HDD (or vice versa as in the case

> where the user would be restoring his/her system from a

> previously cloned USBEHD).

>

> The "Startup Disk" must be purchased separately from the

> program for an add'l $9.95; [.........] BTW, the Casper "Startup Disk" is

> actually an .iso

> file that you use to burn the bootable CD.

 

 

I purchased the $10 Casper "startup disk" .iso file and burned

ti to CD. It (along with Gparted) picked up the presence of

my external ExpressCard-connected eSATA hard drive - unlike

Cute Partition Manager and Clonezilla.

 

The annoyance with the Casper startup disk is that is CD-

based, and it takes 10 minutes to load it into my dual-core CPU

laptop. But unlike Gparted, which has a .zip file that one can use

to make a live USB thumb drive, the Casper startup disk cannot

be put on a USB thumb drive. At least, I haven't figured out

a way to do that. The problem partially results from Casper

being based on Windows .dll files and not on Linux files, as do

most live USB implementations. Therefore, all the existing

on-line documentation for making Linux live USB "sticks" does

not apply. There is also some documentation on converting

live CDs to live USBs, but again, that is for Linux. I suspect

that there is a way to put the Casper logic on a BartPE (a

minimal Windows OS) or to install Casper in Windows XP

and then pare it down using nLite, but that would involve a

lot of work (and a learning curve) for the average person,

including me. I wrote FutureSystemsSolutions several weeks

asking how to convert their Casper .iso file to a form that

could be put on a USB "stick", but I got no reply.

 

Meanwhile, I find that Gparted is an excellent utility. I use

it to manage the partitions on my laptop, and its GUI presents

the situation to the user very well. I rely on the Casper

startup disk to transfer partitions between the internal hard

drive and the external eSATA hard drive because Casper does

the transfer much faster. Although BootItNG seems to under-

stand the new Vista partitioning format the best of the 3rd-party

partition managers, if you go to all XP-partitioning from the start,

Casper and Gparted do just as well, and Vista does understand

the pre-Vista partitioning format. And... Gparted is free.

 

*TimDaniels*

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Anna wrote:

>>> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>> news:9317FAA7-9D0B-4C31-9CA7-1601C43DE8D3@microsoft.com...

>>>> Anna,

>>>>

>>>> I'll take your advice and purchase some cloning software along with the

>>>> new drive and SATA/USB case tomorrow. I'm assuming that Acronis

>>>> True Image Home will do.

>>>>

>>>> Tonight, I tried booting from the Ultimate Boot CD for Windows, just to

>>>> see if I could see data on the drive, but it couldn't read the C

>>>> drive - said

>>>> it was corrupt. We'll see what happens when I try to clone the drive

>>>> and

>>>> then try running other tools.

>>>>

>>>> Thanks for hanging in there with me...

>>>>

>>>> Bill

>

>

>>> "Anna" wrote:

>>> Bill:

>>> As a general proposition you're making a wise choice re purchasing a

>>> disk

>>> cloning program - one you'll never regret.

>>>

>>> Obviously at this point when you clone the problem HDD to another HDD

>>> you'll be (in effect) "cloning garbage to garbage". But in this case

>>> it's the

>>> appropriate way to go since no matter what happens during the time you

>>> try to resurrect that problem HDD (perhaps even making matters worse!),

>>> you'll >> always have a precise copy of the drive as it now exists. It's

>>> a methodology we nearly always employ in cases like this.

>>>

>>> As to the disk cloning program...

>>>

>>> The Acronis True Image program is a fine program and you should

>>> definitely give it a try, especially since a full trial version is

>>> available at the Acronis site.

>>>

>>> The disk cloning program that we greatly prefer is the Casper 5 program.

>>> >> As a disk-to-disk cloning program that will be used (as it should

>>> be) as a

>>> comprehensive routine backup program, we find it superior to the Acronis

>>> program for a variety of reasons. I can provide more info about that

>>> program if you want.

>>>

>>> In any event there is a trial version of the Casper 5 program available.

>>> While it's slightly crippled it should give you a good idea of its

>>> capability and you can compare it with the ATI program. You can download

>>> >> it from...

>>> http://www.fssdev.com/products/free/

>>> Anna

>

>

> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:8C5ED360-977B-4DC3-A891-9AEF807A3BB4@microsoft.com...

>> Anna,

>> Would you happen to know if there is any way of making a bootable disk

>> from the Casper trial version?

>>

>> Also, assuming that the drive HW is good (based on the Seagate tests),

>> but

>> the contents of the data is mangled, will the Casper program still be

>> able to

>> 'find' my bad C drive in order to clone the 'garbage' to the remote new

>> drive?

>> Bill

>

>

> Bill:

> Unfortunately, no - the trial version of Casper will not allow one to

> create

> the "Startup Disk" (CD) which contains a bootable copy of the program that

> the user could use to clone the contents of one's dysfunctional internal

> HDD

> to his/her USB external HDD (or vice versa as in the case where the user

> would be restoring his/her system from a previously cloned USBEHD).

>

> The "Startup Disk" must be purchased separately from the program for an

> add'l $9.95; it's not available in any trial version (nor can it be

> purchased as a standalone program except to a licensed user). As a matter

> of

> fact we've complained to the developer about this "optional" cost. I can't

> imagine any user of the program *not* having the Startup Disk since it's

> obviously an essential part of the program and in our view should really

> be

> included in the cost of the basic program (as it is with the Acronis True

> Image program).

>

> But, alas, it isn't. However, we believe the program (it's a downloaded

> executable file) is so good that it's worth the added cost of the program

> plus the add'l cost of the Startup Disk as compared with other

> disk-cloning

> programs that we've worked with, including Acronis True Image. Acronis

> does

> however have the advantage of allowing the user to create its "Startup

> Disk"

> (Acronis calls it their "Bootable Rescue Media") at no extra cost directly

> from the installed program. And if I'm not mistaken the Acronis program on

> its CD can be used as a "Startup Disk".

 

That is correct (and is another reason why I purchased it "boxed". :-)

[Guest Bill Cook]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Anna,

 

Just to follow up...

 

I downloaded both the Casper and Acronis free trials. Since Acronis allowed

me to make a boot disk, I ran it and was pleased to see that it was able to

at least recognize the size and NTFS structure of my drive (unlike the

Ultimate Boot CD), and was also able to find and recognize the larger drive

over USB that I purchased along with the USB case. The trial version didn't

allow me to clone anything from the boot disk, however - it clones only when

running from Windows.

 

However, since it could at least recognize things, and since I'll be going

on vacation for a week and wanted to get it into the hands of some others to

try a recovery attempt, I purchased Acronis and was successfully able to

produce a clone! That will give me the peace of mind that I (or others more

experienced than myself) can take some risks in the recovery attempt.

 

THANK YOU for the suggestions in this regard. I still will probably try out

the Casper software when things settle down one way or the other, since I've

heard that it is much faster at cloning. (Acronis took about 3.5 hours with

my 250G drive).

 

Again, thank you, and I'll follow up again after my vacation, when I see how

things are going with the recovery attempt.

 

Bill

 

"Anna" wrote:

>

> >> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> >> news:9317FAA7-9D0B-4C31-9CA7-1601C43DE8D3@microsoft.com...

> >> > Anna,

> >> >

> >> > I'll take your advice and purchase some cloning software along with the

> >> > new drive and SATA/USB case tomorrow. I'm assuming that Acronis

> >> >True Image Home will do.

> >> >

> >> > Tonight, I tried booting from the Ultimate Boot CD for Windows, just to

> >> > see if I could see data on the drive, but it couldn't read the C

> >> > drive - said

> >> > it was corrupt. We'll see what happens when I try to clone the drive

> >> > and

> >> > then try running other tools.

> >> >

> >> > Thanks for hanging in there with me...

> >> >

> >> > Bill

>

>

> >> "Anna" wrote:

> >> Bill:

> >> As a general proposition you're making a wise choice re purchasing a disk

> >> cloning program - one you'll never regret.

> >>

> >> Obviously at this point when you clone the problem HDD to another HDD

> >> you'll be (in effect) "cloning garbage to garbage". But in this case it's

> >> the

> >> appropriate way to go since no matter what happens during the time you

> >> try

> >> to resurrect that problem HDD (perhaps even making matters worse!),

> >> you'll >> always have a precise copy of the drive as it now exists. It's

> >> a methodology

> >> we nearly always employ in cases like this.

> >>

> >> As to the disk cloning program...

> >>

> >> The Acronis True Image program is a fine program and you should

> >> definitely give it a try, especially since a full trial version is

> >> available at the

> >> Acronis site.

> >>

> >> The disk cloning program that we greatly prefer is the Casper 5 program.

> >> >> As a disk-to-disk cloning program that will be used (as it should be)

> >> as a

> >> comprehensive routine backup program, we find it superior to the Acronis

> >> program for a variety of reasons. I can provide more info about that

> >> program if you want.

> >>

> >> In any event there is a trial version of the Casper 5 program available.

> >> While it's slightly crippled it should give you a good idea of its

> >> capability and you can compare it with the ATI program. You can download

> >> >> it from...

> >> http://www.fssdev.com/products/free/

> >> Anna

>

>

> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:8C5ED360-977B-4DC3-A891-9AEF807A3BB4@microsoft.com...

> > Anna,

> > Would you happen to know if there is any way of making a bootable disk

> > from the Casper trial version?

> >

> > Also, assuming that the drive HW is good (based on the Seagate tests), but

> > the contents of the data is mangled, will the Casper program still be able

> > to

> > 'find' my bad C drive in order to clone the 'garbage' to the remote new

> > drive?

> > Bill

>

>

> Bill:

> Unfortunately, no - the trial version of Casper will not allow one to create

> the "Startup Disk" (CD) which contains a bootable copy of the program that

> the user could use to clone the contents of one's dysfunctional internal HDD

> to his/her USB external HDD (or vice versa as in the case where the user

> would be restoring his/her system from a previously cloned USBEHD).

>

> The "Startup Disk" must be purchased separately from the program for an

> add'l $9.95; it's not available in any trial version (nor can it be

> purchased as a standalone program except to a licensed user). As a matter of

> fact we've complained to the developer about this "optional" cost. I can't

> imagine any user of the program *not* having the Startup Disk since it's

> obviously an essential part of the program and in our view should really be

> included in the cost of the basic program (as it is with the Acronis True

> Image program).

>

> But, alas, it isn't. However, we believe the program (it's a downloaded

> executable file) is so good that it's worth the added cost of the program

> plus the add'l cost of the Startup Disk as compared with other disk-cloning

> programs that we've worked with, including Acronis True Image. Acronis does

> however have the advantage of allowing the user to create its "Startup Disk"

> (Acronis calls it their "Bootable Rescue Media") at no extra cost directly

> from the installed program. And if I'm not mistaken the Acronis program on

> its CD can be used as a "Startup Disk".

>

> Anyway, since you're dealing with an unbootable, dysfunctional HDD there's

> obviously no practical way to install the Casper program (trial or purchased

> version) onto that drive so that you could test out the program. BTW, the

> Casper "Startup Disk" is actually an .iso file that you use to burn the

> bootable CD.

>

> As I've indicated, the "Startup Disk" is ordinarily used in situations

> (similar to your current situation) where the installed Casper program is

> not accessible since the internal boot HDD is dysfunctional and the user

> would be cloning the contents of his/her USB external HDD (used previously

> as the recipient of the cloned contents of the internal HDD when the latter

> was without problems) for restoration purposes.

>

> What you could do if you're so inclined in order to at least test out the

> Casper program is to download & install the program on your laptop and clone

> the contents of the laptop to your USBEHD. Obviously this wouldn't solve

> your problem but just give you some insight as to how the program works and

> whether you think it will serve your needs better than another disk-cloning

> (or disk-imaging) program such as the Acronis one.

>

> And, as I've previously suggested, you should use the trial version of the

> ATI program and compare programs.

>

> I realize I haven't fully explained *why* we prefer the Casper program over

> other disk-cloning (or disk-imaging) programs such as the Acronis one. If

> you (or others coming upon this thread) would like to have this info please

> so indicate and I'll post some add'l comments.

> Anna

>

>

>

[Guest Anna]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

> "Anna" wrote:

>

>>

>> >> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> >> news:9317FAA7-9D0B-4C31-9CA7-1601C43DE8D3@microsoft.com...

>> >> > Anna,

>> >> > I'll take your advice and purchase some cloning software along with

>> >> > the new drive and SATA/USB case tomorrow. I'm assuming that

>> >> > Acronis True Image Home will do.

>> >> >

>> >> > Tonight, I tried booting from the Ultimate Boot CD for Windows, just

>> >> > to

>> >> > see if I could see data on the drive, but it couldn't read the C

>> >> > drive - said it was corrupt. We'll see what happens when I try to

>> >> > clone >> >> > the drive and then try running other tools.

>> >> >

>> >> > Thanks for hanging in there with me...

>> >> >

>> >> > Bill

 

>> >> "Anna" wrote:

>> >> Bill:

>> >> As a general proposition you're making a wise choice re purchasing a

>> >> >> >> disk cloning program - one you'll never regret.

>> >>

>> >> Obviously at this point when you clone the problem HDD to another HDD

>> >> you'll be (in effect) "cloning garbage to garbage". But in this case

>> >> it's

>> >> the appropriate way to go since no matter what happens during the time

>> >> >> >> you try to resurrect that problem HDD (perhaps even making

>> >> matters

>> >> worse!), you'll always have a precise copy of the drive as it now

>> >> exists.

>> >> it's a methodology we nearly always employ in cases like this.

>> >>

>> >> As to the disk cloning program...

>> >>

>> >> The Acronis True Image program is a fine program and you should

>> >> definitely give it a try, especially since a full trial version is

>> >> available at the Acronis site.

>> >>

>> >> The disk cloning program that we greatly prefer is the Casper 5

>> >> program. As a disk-to-disk cloning program that will be used (as it

>> >> should be) as a comprehensive routine backup program, we find it

>> >> superior to the Acronis program for a variety of reasons. I can

>> >> provide >> >> more info about that program if you want.

>> >>

>> >> In any event there is a trial version of the Casper 5 program

>> >> available.

>> >> While it's slightly crippled it should give you a good idea of its

>> >> capability and you can compare it with the ATI program. You can

>> >> download it from...http://www.fssdev.com/products/free/

>> >> Anna

 

>> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:8C5ED360-977B-4DC3-A891-9AEF807A3BB4@microsoft.com...

>> > Anna,

>> > Would you happen to know if there is any way of making a bootable disk

>> > from the Casper trial version?

>> >

>> > Also, assuming that the drive HW is good (based on the Seagate tests),

>> > but

>> > the contents of the data is mangled, will the Casper program still be

>> > able

>> > to

>> > 'find' my bad C drive in order to clone the 'garbage' to the remote new

>> > drive?

>> > Bill

 

>> Bill:

>> Unfortunately, no - the trial version of Casper will not allow one to

>> create

>> the "Startup Disk" (CD) which contains a bootable copy of the program

>> that

>> the user could use to clone the contents of one's dysfunctional internal

>> HDD to his/her USB external HDD (or vice versa as in the case where the

>> >> user would be restoring his/her system from a previously cloned

>> USBEHD).

>>

>> The "Startup Disk" must be purchased separately from the program for an

>> add'l $9.95; it's not available in any trial version (nor can it be

>> purchased as a standalone program except to a licensed user). As a matter

>> >> of fact we've complained to the developer about this "optional" cost.

>> I can't

>> imagine any user of the program *not* having the Startup Disk since it's

>> obviously an essential part of the program and in our view should really

>> be

>> included in the cost of the basic program (as it is with the Acronis True

>> Image program).

>>

>> But, alas, it isn't. However, we believe the program (it's a downloaded

>> executable file) is so good that it's worth the added cost of the

>> program

>> plus the add'l cost of the Startup Disk as compared with other

>> disk-cloning

>> programs that we've worked with, including Acronis True Image. Acronis

>> does however have the advantage of allowing the user to create its

>> "Startup >> Disk" (Acronis calls it their "Bootable Rescue Media") at no

>> extra cost

>> directly from the installed program. And if I'm not mistaken the Acronis

>> program on its CD can be used as a "Startup Disk".

>>

>> Anyway, since you're dealing with an unbootable, dysfunctional HDD

>> there's >> obviously no practical way to install the Casper program

>> (trial or purchased

>> version) onto that drive so that you could test out the program. BTW, the

>> Casper "Startup Disk" is actually an .iso file that you use to burn the

>> bootable CD.

>>

>> As I've indicated, the "Startup Disk" is ordinarily used in situations

>> (similar to your current situation) where the installed Casper program is

>> not accessible since the internal boot HDD is dysfunctional and the user

>> would be cloning the contents of his/her USB external HDD (used

>> previously as the recipient of the cloned contents of the internal HDD

>> when >> the latter was without problems) for restoration purposes.

>>

>> What you could do if you're so inclined in order to at least test out the

>> Casper program is to download & install the program on your laptop and

>> clone the contents of the laptop to your USBEHD. Obviously this wouldn't

>> >> solve your problem but just give you some insight as to how the

>> program

>> works and whether you think it will serve your needs better than another

>> disk-cloning (or disk-imaging) program such as the Acronis one.

>>

>> And, as I've previously suggested, you should use the trial version of

>> the

>> ATI program and compare programs.

>>

>> I realize I haven't fully explained *why* we prefer the Casper program

>> over

>> other disk-cloning (or disk-imaging) programs such as the Acronis one. If

>> you (or others coming upon this thread) would like to have this info

>> please

>> so indicate and I'll post some add'l comments.

>> Anna

 

 

"Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:584B54E8-6295-4341-ABF2-570AA96A4CCF@microsoft.com...

> Anna,

>

> Just to follow up...

>

> I downloaded both the Casper and Acronis free trials. Since Acronis

> allowed > me to make a boot disk, I ran it and was pleased to see that it

> was able to

> at least recognize the size and NTFS structure of my drive (unlike the

> Ultimate Boot CD), and was also able to find and recognize the larger

> drive

> over USB that I purchased along with the USB case. The trial version

> didn't

> allow me to clone anything from the boot disk, however - it clones only

> when

> running from Windows.

>

> However, since it could at least recognize things, and since I'll be going

> on vacation for a week and wanted to get it into the hands of some others

> to

> try a recovery attempt, I purchased Acronis and was successfully able to

> produce a clone! That will give me the peace of mind that I (or others

> more

> experienced than myself) can take some risks in the recovery attempt.

>

> THANK YOU for the suggestions in this regard. I still will probably try

> out

> the Casper software when things settle down one way or the other, since

> I've > heard that it is much faster at cloning. (Acronis took about 3.5

> hours with

> my 250G drive).

>

> Again, thank you, and I'll follow up again after my vacation, when I see

> how

> things are going with the recovery attempt.

> Bill

 

 

Bill:

It's possible that because of the dysfunctional nature of your "source" HDD,

it took an inordinately long time for Acronis to clone the contents of that

drive to your USBEHD. We've run into the same situation with Casper as well

when cloning unbootable/dysfunctional HDDs.

 

Assuming you're eventually able to return that HDD to a bootable, functional

state and you begin to use the ATI program as a routine backup program, you

might want to experiment with Acronis's disk imaging feature for backup

purposes rather than its disk-cloning capability. For a variety of reasons

many users prefer a disk-imaging approach to backing up one's system rather

than the disk-cloning approach. While we believe that as a disk-to-disk (or

partition-to-partition) cloning program, Casper is a superior product, ATI's

disk-imaging capability (unavailable in Casper) make it a more desirable

product should a user desire that backup approach.

 

In any event, do install the trial version of Casper when you get a chance

and see how you like it. Keep in mind that if & when you do the one feature

that makes Casper so superior (in our view) as a disk-cloning program is its

ability to create routine subsequent clones (following the initial/first

cloning of the source drive) in a fraction of the time it takes other

disk-cloning programs to do so. A mighty strong incentive for the user to

make frequent complete backups of his or her system knowing that the process

will take only a few short minutes in most cases.

Anna

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Anna wrote:

>> "Anna" wrote:

>>

>>>

>>>>> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:9317FAA7-9D0B-4C31-9CA7-1601C43DE8D3@microsoft.com...

>>>>>> Anna,

>>>>>> I'll take your advice and purchase some cloning software along with

>>>>>> the new drive and SATA/USB case tomorrow. I'm assuming that

>>>>>> Acronis True Image Home will do.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Tonight, I tried booting from the Ultimate Boot CD for Windows, just

>>>>>> to

>>>>>> see if I could see data on the drive, but it couldn't read the C

>>>>>> drive - said it was corrupt. We'll see what happens when I try to

>>>>>> clone >> >> > the drive and then try running other tools.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Thanks for hanging in there with me...

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Bill

>

>

>>>>> "Anna" wrote:

>>>>> Bill:

>>>>> As a general proposition you're making a wise choice re purchasing a

>>>>> >> >> disk cloning program - one you'll never regret.

>>>>>

>>>>> Obviously at this point when you clone the problem HDD to another HDD

>>>>> you'll be (in effect) "cloning garbage to garbage". But in this case

>>>>> it's

>>>>> the appropriate way to go since no matter what happens during the time

>>>>> >> >> you try to resurrect that problem HDD (perhaps even making

>>>>> matters

>>>>> worse!), you'll always have a precise copy of the drive as it now

>>>>> exists.

>>>>> it's a methodology we nearly always employ in cases like this.

>>>>>

>>>>> As to the disk cloning program...

>>>>>

>>>>> The Acronis True Image program is a fine program and you should

>>>>> definitely give it a try, especially since a full trial version is

>>>>> available at the Acronis site.

>>>>>

>>>>> The disk cloning program that we greatly prefer is the Casper 5

>>>>> program. As a disk-to-disk cloning program that will be used (as it

>>>>> should be) as a comprehensive routine backup program, we find it

>>>>> superior to the Acronis program for a variety of reasons. I can

>>>>> provide >> >> more info about that program if you want.

>>>>>

>>>>> In any event there is a trial version of the Casper 5 program

>>>>> available.

>>>>> While it's slightly crippled it should give you a good idea of its

>>>>> capability and you can compare it with the ATI program. You can

>>>>> download it from...http://www.fssdev.com/products/free/

>>>>> Anna

>

>

>>> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>>> news:8C5ED360-977B-4DC3-A891-9AEF807A3BB4@microsoft.com...

>>>> Anna,

>>>> Would you happen to know if there is any way of making a bootable disk

>>>> from the Casper trial version?

>>>>

>>>> Also, assuming that the drive HW is good (based on the Seagate tests),

>>>> but

>>>> the contents of the data is mangled, will the Casper program still be

>>>> able

>>>> to

>>>> 'find' my bad C drive in order to clone the 'garbage' to the remote new

>>>> drive?

>>>> Bill

>

>

>>> Bill:

>>> Unfortunately, no - the trial version of Casper will not allow one to

>>> create

>>> the "Startup Disk" (CD) which contains a bootable copy of the program

>>> that

>>> the user could use to clone the contents of one's dysfunctional internal

>>> HDD to his/her USB external HDD (or vice versa as in the case where the

>>> >> user would be restoring his/her system from a previously cloned

>>> USBEHD).

>>>

>>> The "Startup Disk" must be purchased separately from the program for an

>>> add'l $9.95; it's not available in any trial version (nor can it be

>>> purchased as a standalone program except to a licensed user). As a

>>> matter

>>> >> of fact we've complained to the developer about this "optional"

>>> cost.

>>> I can't

>>> imagine any user of the program *not* having the Startup Disk since it's

>>> obviously an essential part of the program and in our view should really

>>> be

>>> included in the cost of the basic program (as it is with the Acronis

>>> True

>>> Image program).

>>>

>>> But, alas, it isn't. However, we believe the program (it's a downloaded

>>> executable file) is so good that it's worth the added cost of the

>>> program

>>> plus the add'l cost of the Startup Disk as compared with other

>>> disk-cloning

>>> programs that we've worked with, including Acronis True Image. Acronis

>>> does however have the advantage of allowing the user to create its

>>> "Startup >> Disk" (Acronis calls it their "Bootable Rescue Media") at no

>>> extra cost

>>> directly from the installed program. And if I'm not mistaken the Acronis

>>> program on its CD can be used as a "Startup Disk".

>>>

>>> Anyway, since you're dealing with an unbootable, dysfunctional HDD

>>> there's >> obviously no practical way to install the Casper program

>>> (trial or purchased

>>> version) onto that drive so that you could test out the program. BTW,

>>> the

>>> Casper "Startup Disk" is actually an .iso file that you use to burn the

>>> bootable CD.

>>>

>>> As I've indicated, the "Startup Disk" is ordinarily used in situations

>>> (similar to your current situation) where the installed Casper program

>>> is

>>> not accessible since the internal boot HDD is dysfunctional and the user

>>> would be cloning the contents of his/her USB external HDD (used

>>> previously as the recipient of the cloned contents of the internal HDD

>>> when >> the latter was without problems) for restoration purposes.

>>>

>>> What you could do if you're so inclined in order to at least test out

>>> the

>>> Casper program is to download & install the program on your laptop and

>>> clone the contents of the laptop to your USBEHD. Obviously this wouldn't

>>> >> solve your problem but just give you some insight as to how the

>>> program

>>> works and whether you think it will serve your needs better than another

>>> disk-cloning (or disk-imaging) program such as the Acronis one.

>>>

>>> And, as I've previously suggested, you should use the trial version of

>>> the

>>> ATI program and compare programs.

>>>

>>> I realize I haven't fully explained *why* we prefer the Casper program

>>> over

>>> other disk-cloning (or disk-imaging) programs such as the Acronis one.

>>> If

>>> you (or others coming upon this thread) would like to have this info

>>> please

>>> so indicate and I'll post some add'l comments.

>>> Anna

>

>

> "Bill Cook" <BillCook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:584B54E8-6295-4341-ABF2-570AA96A4CCF@microsoft.com...

>> Anna,

>>

>> Just to follow up...

>>

>> I downloaded both the Casper and Acronis free trials. Since Acronis

>> allowed > me to make a boot disk, I ran it and was pleased to see that it

>> was able to

>> at least recognize the size and NTFS structure of my drive (unlike the

>> Ultimate Boot CD), and was also able to find and recognize the larger

>> drive

>> over USB that I purchased along with the USB case. The trial version

>> didn't

>> allow me to clone anything from the boot disk, however - it clones only

>> when

>> running from Windows.

>>

>> However, since it could at least recognize things, and since I'll be

>> going

>> on vacation for a week and wanted to get it into the hands of some others

>> to

>> try a recovery attempt, I purchased Acronis and was successfully able to

>> produce a clone! That will give me the peace of mind that I (or others

>> more

>> experienced than myself) can take some risks in the recovery attempt.

>>

>> THANK YOU for the suggestions in this regard. I still will probably try

>> out

>> the Casper software when things settle down one way or the other, since

>> I've > heard that it is much faster at cloning. (Acronis took about 3.5

>> hours with

>> my 250G drive).

>>

>> Again, thank you, and I'll follow up again after my vacation, when I see

>> how

>> things are going with the recovery attempt.

>> Bill

>

>

> Bill:

> It's possible that because of the dysfunctional nature of your "source"

> HDD,

> it took an inordinately long time for Acronis to clone the contents of

> that

> drive to your USBEHD. We've run into the same situation with Casper as

> well

> when cloning unbootable/dysfunctional HDDs.

>

> Assuming you're eventually able to return that HDD to a bootable,

> functional

> state and you begin to use the ATI program as a routine backup program,

> you

> might want to experiment with Acronis's disk imaging feature for backup

> purposes rather than its disk-cloning capability. For a variety of reasons

> many users prefer a disk-imaging approach to backing up one's system

> rather

> than the disk-cloning approach. While we believe that as a disk-to-disk

> (or

> partition-to-partition) cloning program, Casper is a superior product,

> ATI's

> disk-imaging capability (unavailable in Casper) make it a more desirable

> product should a user desire that backup approach.

 

I think that being the case, if one does NOT want to swap drives (which is a

real PIA for some external HD enclosures), but, instead, simply wants a

partition backup scheme. Is that a valid assessment? (otherwise you'd

have to use the cloning software to 1) clone the source disk to the

destination and 2) then restore the backup clone partition BACK to the

source drive).

 

But I expect you can do this with Casper. And maybe(?) the overall process

would be faster due to its smart cloning feature (not sure), but that's not

the way a *cloning* program is intended to be used, as I understand it.

> In any event, do install the trial version of Casper when you get a chance

> and see how you like it. Keep in mind that if & when you do the one

> feature

> that makes Casper so superior (in our view) as a disk-cloning program is

> its

> ability to create routine subsequent clones (following the initial/first

> cloning of the source drive) in a fraction of the time it takes other

> disk-cloning programs to do so. A mighty strong incentive for the user to

> make frequent complete backups of his or her system knowing that the

> process

> will take only a few short minutes in most cases.

> Anna

[Guest Anna]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

>>> "Anna" wrote:

>> ... and you begin to use the ATI program as a routine backup program, you

>> might want to experiment with Acronis's disk imaging feature for backup

>> purposes rather than its disk-cloning capability. For a variety of

>> reasons many users prefer a disk-imaging approach to backing up one's

>> system rather than the disk-cloning approach. While we believe that as a

>> disk-to-disk (or partition-to-partition) cloning program, Casper is a

>> superior >> product, ATI's disk-imaging capability (unavailable in

>> Casper) make it a more desirable product should a user desire that backup

>> approach.

>>

>> In any event, do install the trial version of Casper when you get a

>> chance

>> and see how you like it. Keep in mind that if & when you do the one

>> feature that makes Casper so superior (in our view) as a disk-cloning

>> program is its ability to create routine subsequent clones (following the

>> initial/first cloning of the source drive) in a fraction of the time it

>> takes other disk-cloning programs to do so. A mighty strong incentive for

>> the user >> to make frequent complete backups of his or her system

>> knowing that the process will take only a few short minutes in most

>> cases.

>> Anna

 

 

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:%23YBUhux0IHA.5564@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> I think that being the case, if one does NOT want to swap drives (which is

> a real PIA for some external HD enclosures), but, instead, simply wants a

> partition backup scheme. Is that a valid assessment? (otherwise you'd

> have to use the cloning software to 1) clone the source disk to the

> destination and 2) then restore the backup clone partition BACK to the

> source drive).

>

> But I expect you can do this with Casper. And maybe(?) the overall

> process would be faster due to its smart cloning feature (not sure), but

> that's not the way a *cloning* program is intended to be used, as I

> understand it.

 

 

Bill:

I'm pretty sure we've previously covered this ground so let me respond in a

more generic way...

 

It seems to me that what the vast majority of PC users desire in a

comprehensive backup program involving either a disk-to-disk cloning (or

partition-to-partition) program or a disk-imaging program is...

1. Effectiveness, i.e., the disk-cloning program will provide a precise copy

of the HDD being cloned, or in the case of a disk-imaging program, a image

in the form of a file (archive) that in effect, is a precise copy of HDD

that's imaged, and the image file or archive thus created can be easily

manipulated so that the system can be restored to a functional state if &

when that need arises.

2. The program - be it a disk-cloning or disk-imaging program - has a

straightforward design and is simple to use.

3. The routine systematic backups of one's system can be undertaken

relatively quickly so that the user is encouraged to back up his or her

system at frequent intervals.

 

What's *not* important in my view or at least relatively unimportant, is the

speed of the "restoration" process, i.e., the time it takes to restore the

system to a bootable, functional state following the failure of one's

internal HDD or following a dysfunctional operating system due to corruption

of data or other cause not involving defective hardware.

 

Is it not true that in nearly every case the user will be using his/her

disk-cloning or disk-imaging program to backup their system? And *rarely*

(in comparison with routine backups) will have occasion to utilize the

program to restore his/her system because of one of the events listed above?

So does it really matter whether the restoration process will take 45

minutes or two hours?

 

What's important, again in my view, is the amount of time it takes to

effectively back up one's system on a routine basis, perhaps daily or weekly

or every few days. As I've indicated, when the user knows that the backup

process he or she will undertake can be achieved in a relatively short

period of time, he or she will have a greater incentive to undertake more

frequent backups than they might otherwise do if they know that their backup

program involves a lengthy time-consuming process.

 

As I have previously indicated, the major reason we prefer the Casper

program over all other disk-cloning programs that we're familiar with,

including the Acronis True Image program, is its so-called "SmartClone"

feature. Routine backups with this program take only a fraction of the time

as compared with other disk-cloning programs. These "incremental clones" are

complete clones of the source HDD. Obviously the amount of data being cloned

will dictate the time needed to complete the disk-cloning process, but I can

assure you its backup time is far, shorter than any other disk-cloning

program we've ever experienced.

 

As you know, Casper does not have disk-imaging capability. I fully

understand that there are many users who prefer that approach rather than

disk-to-disk cloning. But our experience with thousands of PC users

convinces us that by & large the disk-to-disk cloning process as a

comprehensive & routine backup system is more practical for the great body

of PC users. But I have no problem with those users who prefer the

disk-imaging backup route.

 

Frankly, I'm not at all sure I quite understand your current questions &

comments. I assume you're referring to the restoration process involving a

disk-cloning program. It is true that should the user employ a USBEHD as

his/her destination HDD, i.e., the recipient of the clone, and the user

desires to use that HDD as a replacement for his/her internal HDD (perhaps

to replace a failed internal HDD), he or she can do that assuming the HDD

from the USB device can be uninstalled from the enclosure.

 

On the other hand, the contents of the USBEHD can be simply re:cloned to the

internal HDD (assuming the latter is non-defective) to restore a

dysfunctional system. A simple process, no?

 

So what's the problem here? These are not terribly complicated or

tremendously time-consuming events. Again, we must bear in mind that

presumably these will be relatively rare events, would they not?

Anna

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Anna wrote:

>>>> "Anna" wrote:

>>> ... and you begin to use the ATI program as a routine backup program,

>>> you

>>> might want to experiment with Acronis's disk imaging feature for backup

>>> purposes rather than its disk-cloning capability. For a variety of

>>> reasons many users prefer a disk-imaging approach to backing up one's

>>> system rather than the disk-cloning approach. While we believe that as a

>>> disk-to-disk (or partition-to-partition) cloning program, Casper is a

>>> superior >> product, ATI's disk-imaging capability (unavailable in

>>> Casper) make it a more desirable product should a user desire that

>>> backup

>>> approach.

>>>

>>> In any event, do install the trial version of Casper when you get a

>>> chance

>>> and see how you like it. Keep in mind that if & when you do the one

>>> feature that makes Casper so superior (in our view) as a disk-cloning

>>> program is its ability to create routine subsequent clones (following

>>> the

>>> initial/first cloning of the source drive) in a fraction of the time it

>>> takes other disk-cloning programs to do so. A mighty strong incentive

>>> for

>>> the user >> to make frequent complete backups of his or her system

>>> knowing that the process will take only a few short minutes in most

>>> cases.

>>> Anna

>

>

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:%23YBUhux0IHA.5564@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> I think that being the case, if one does NOT want to swap drives (which

>> is

>> a real PIA for some external HD enclosures), but, instead, simply wants a

>> partition backup scheme. Is that a valid assessment? (otherwise

>> you'd

>> have to use the cloning software to 1) clone the source disk to the

>> destination and 2) then restore the backup clone partition BACK to the

>> source drive).

>>

>> But I expect you can do this with Casper. And maybe(?) the overall

>> process would be faster due to its smart cloning feature (not sure), but

>> that's not the way a *cloning* program is intended to be used, as I

>> understand it.

>

>

> Bill:

> I'm pretty sure we've previously covered this ground so let me respond in

> a

> more generic way...

>

> It seems to me that what the vast majority of PC users desire in a

> comprehensive backup program involving either a disk-to-disk cloning (or

> partition-to-partition) program or a disk-imaging program is...

> 1. Effectiveness, i.e., the disk-cloning program will provide a precise

> copy

> of the HDD being cloned, or in the case of a disk-imaging program, a image

> in the form of a file (archive) that in effect, is a precise copy of HDD

> that's imaged, and the image file or archive thus created can be easily

> manipulated so that the system can be restored to a functional state if &

> when that need arises.

> 2. The program - be it a disk-cloning or disk-imaging program - has a

> straightforward design and is simple to use.

> 3. The routine systematic backups of one's system can be undertaken

> relatively quickly so that the user is encouraged to back up his or her

> system at frequent intervals.

>

> What's *not* important in my view or at least relatively unimportant, is

> the

> speed of the "restoration" process, i.e., the time it takes to restore the

> system to a bootable, functional state following the failure of one's

> internal HDD or following a dysfunctional operating system due to

> corruption

> of data or other cause not involving defective hardware.

>

> Is it not true that in nearly every case the user will be using his/her

> disk-cloning or disk-imaging program to backup their system? And *rarely*

> (in comparison with routine backups) will have occasion to utilize the

> program to restore his/her system because of one of the events listed

> above?

> So does it really matter whether the restoration process will take 45

> minutes or two hours?

>

> What's important, again in my view, is the amount of time it takes to

> effectively back up one's system on a routine basis, perhaps daily or

> weekly

> or every few days. As I've indicated, when the user knows that the backup

> process he or she will undertake can be achieved in a relatively short

> period of time, he or she will have a greater incentive to undertake more

> frequent backups than they might otherwise do if they know that their

> backup

> program involves a lengthy time-consuming process.

>

> As I have previously indicated, the major reason we prefer the Casper

> program over all other disk-cloning programs that we're familiar with,

> including the Acronis True Image program, is its so-called "SmartClone"

> feature. Routine backups with this program take only a fraction of the

> time

> as compared with other disk-cloning programs. These "incremental clones"

> are

> complete clones of the source HDD. Obviously the amount of data being

> cloned

> will dictate the time needed to complete the disk-cloning process, but I

> can

> assure you its backup time is far, shorter than any other disk-cloning

> program we've ever experienced.

>

> As you know, Casper does not have disk-imaging capability. I fully

> understand that there are many users who prefer that approach rather than

> disk-to-disk cloning. But our experience with thousands of PC users

> convinces us that by & large the disk-to-disk cloning process as a

> comprehensive & routine backup system is more practical for the great body

> of PC users. But I have no problem with those users who prefer the

> disk-imaging backup route.

>

> Frankly, I'm not at all sure I quite understand your current questions &

> comments. I assume you're referring to the restoration process involving a

> disk-cloning program. It is true that should the user employ a USBEHD as

> his/her destination HDD, i.e., the recipient of the clone, and the user

> desires to use that HDD as a replacement for his/her internal HDD (perhaps

> to replace a failed internal HDD), he or she can do that assuming the HDD

> from the USB device can be uninstalled from the enclosure.

>

> On the other hand, the contents of the USBEHD can be simply re:cloned to

> the

> internal HDD (assuming the latter is non-defective) to restore a

> dysfunctional system. A simple process, no?

>

> So what's the problem here? These are not terribly complicated or

> tremendously time-consuming events. Again, we must bear in mind that

> presumably these will be relatively rare events, would they not?

> Anna

 

Well, not so relatively rare for me, as I often try things out, and then

find I want to go back to a clean system. THAT is my main use. So maybe

that's the point that was overlooked here (my apologies for the

misunderstanding). I mess around with my system quite a bit, trying out

various software programs, and sometimes find I want to go back to a clean

system, and use the image restore capability of TI to do that, and not all

that infrequently! THAT was my point.

 

And, if I understand this right, using a disk *cloning* program just to do

that (i.e., NOT with the primary intent of *making a bootable backup drive*)

is a bit "tangential" to its main purpose - since with a *cloning* program

like Casper, you would always be recloning the backup partition BACK to the

source drive partition for a restore operation, IF you intend to use this

program as I have indicated. Is that not correct?

 

But also, as I understand it, you CAN do that restore operation with Casper

(for JUST the C: partition) on a multi-partition drive, by recloning that

partition (previously cloned over to the external USB drive) BACK to the

source drive partition (replacing it after rebooting).

 

But it seems to me that the normal method for this purpose (of what I use it

for - testing out programs, and restoring a backup) would be imaging.

[Guest Anna]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

(The issue here is Bill's questioning as to the effectiveness of a

disk-cloning program vs. a disk-imaging program for the purpose of restoring

a system, presumably because of a defective HDD or a corrupted or otherwise

dysfunctional HDD).

 

 

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:%23B8DGa%230IHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Well, not so relatively rare for me, as I often try things out, and then

> find I want to go back to a clean system. THAT is my main use. So

> maybe that's the point that was overlooked here (my apologies for the

> misunderstanding). I mess around with my system quite a bit, trying out

> various software programs, and sometimes find I want to go back to a clean

> system, and use the image restore capability of TI to do that, and not all

> that infrequently! THAT was my point.

>

> And, if I understand this right, using a disk *cloning* program just to do

> that (i.e., NOT with the primary intent of *making a bootable backup

> drive*) is a bit "tangential" to its main purpose - since with a *cloning*

> program like Casper, you would always be recloning the backup partition

> BACK to the source drive partition for a restore operation, IF you intend

> to use this program as I have indicated. Is that not correct?

>

> But also, as I understand it, you CAN do that restore operation with

> Casper (for JUST the C: partition) on a multi-partition drive, by

> recloning that partition (previously cloned over to the external USB

> drive) BACK to the source drive partition (replacing it after rebooting).

>

> But it seems to me that the normal method for this purpose (of what I use

> it for - testing out programs, and restoring a backup) would be imaging.

 

 

Bill:

Let me say, as I've said repeatedly, that I have no problem with those users

who prefer a disk-imaging program for backup/restoration purposes rather

than a disk-cloning program such as the Casper program I've been

recommending. But it's my belief that as a general proposition for the vast

majority of PC users the disk-cloning approach is a more practical approach

for establishing & maintaining a comprehensive backup system that will be

used on a routine basis.

 

Getting to your specific points...

 

There is *no* problem - *no* obstacle in using a disk-cloning program for

the purpose you have indicated, i.e., "(returning) to a clean system". In

our line of work which involves testing out various programs &

configurations, hardly a day goes by where we're not using a disk-cloning

program to do precisely that. What would give you the idea that a

disk-cloning program (as opposed to a disk-imaging program) would be

incapable of doing so or be inadequate to that task? Or somehow inferior in

time or effectiveness in doing so? That is simply not the case and I can't

imagine how you concluded that.

 

A clone is a clone is a clone. Using the Casper program as an example the

user can clone the contents of one HDD to another HDD either on a

partition-by-partition basis or the entire disk in one fell swoop.

 

Why do you conclude that "the normal method for this purpose (testing out

programs and restoring a backup) would be imaging", inferring that somehow

the disk-cloning "method" is "abnormal" for this purpose?

Anna

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Anna wrote:

> (The issue here is Bill's questioning as to the effectiveness of a

> disk-cloning program vs. a disk-imaging program for the purpose of

> restoring

> a system, presumably because of a defective HDD or a corrupted or

> otherwise

> dysfunctional HDD).

 

Right. More below...

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:%23B8DGa%230IHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>> Well, not so relatively rare for me, as I often try things out, and then

>> find I want to go back to a clean system. THAT is my main use. So

>> maybe that's the point that was overlooked here (my apologies for the

>> misunderstanding). I mess around with my system quite a bit, trying out

>> various software programs, and sometimes find I want to go back to a

>> clean

>> system, and use the image restore capability of TI to do that, and not

>> all

>> that infrequently! THAT was my point.

>>

>> And, if I understand this right, using a disk *cloning* program just to

>> do

>> that (i.e., NOT with the primary intent of *making a bootable backup

>> drive*) is a bit "tangential" to its main purpose - since with a

>> *cloning*

>> program like Casper, you would always be recloning the backup partition

>> BACK to the source drive partition for a restore operation, IF you intend

>> to use this program as I have indicated. Is that not correct?

>>

>> But also, as I understand it, you CAN do that restore operation with

>> Casper (for JUST the C: partition) on a multi-partition drive, by

>> recloning that partition (previously cloned over to the external USB

>> drive) BACK to the source drive partition (replacing it after rebooting).

>>

>> But it seems to me that the normal method for this purpose (of what I use

>> it for - testing out programs, and restoring a backup) would be imaging.

>

>

> Bill:

> Let me say, as I've said repeatedly, that I have no problem with those

> users

> who prefer a disk-imaging program for backup/restoration purposes rather

> than a disk-cloning program such as the Casper program I've been

> recommending. But it's my belief that as a general proposition for the

> vast

> majority of PC users the disk-cloning approach is a more practical

> approach

> for establishing & maintaining a comprehensive backup system that will be

> used on a routine basis.

>

> Getting to your specific points...

>

> There is *no* problem - *no* obstacle in using a disk-cloning program for

> the purpose you have indicated, i.e., "(returning) to a clean system". In

> our line of work which involves testing out various programs &

> configurations, hardly a day goes by where we're not using a disk-cloning

> program to do precisely that.

 

And you mean that having made the clone, one subsequentally copies the

backup clone BACK to the source drive, I presume here.

 

For some reason I tend to think that is a bit atypical for the normal use of

*cloning* software. I tend to think of *cloning* software being

(principally) used to make a backup disk clone, which will then be pulled

out and swapped with the (bad) source drive, (unlike if one were using

imaging). But maybe that's an incorrect assumption. More on that below.

> What would give you the idea that a

> disk-cloning program (as opposed to a disk-imaging program) would be

> incapable of doing so or be inadequate to that task? Or somehow inferior

> in

> time or effectiveness in doing so? That is simply not the case and I can't

> imagine how you concluded that.

>

> A clone is a clone is a clone. Using the Casper program as an example the

> user can clone the contents of one HDD to another HDD either on a

> partition-by-partition basis or the entire disk in one fell swoop.

 

OK - that was one point that I still wasn't sure about - sorry. More

below.

> Why do you conclude that "the normal method for this purpose (testing out

> programs and restoring a backup) would be imaging", inferring that somehow

> the disk-cloning "method" is "abnormal" for this purpose?

> Anna

 

I was just under the impression that a disk *cloning* program was intended

to make the destination *drive* identical to the source *drive* (and not

just a partition), so that you could pull the destination drive out, and

swap it with the (bad) source drive.

 

And in my case, I can't really do that at the drive level, since my 250 GB

source drive consists of several partitions, and I always ONLY backup the C:

40 GB partition to a much smaller destination drive (80 GB in total) in the

external USB enclosure. So I never can (nor do I want to, anyways) clone

the entire 250 GB source drive completely over to the destination drive in

the external USB enclosure. Nor do I want the other half of that 80 GB

destination drive touched during my backup operation (but I guess it won't

be, from what your saying, as long as I simply elect to do a partition to

partition cloning operation).

 

So as you said above, Casper can apparently also do JUST do a

partition-to-partition copy (like BootItNG, for example, running in

Maintenance Mode, for partition copying operations). OK then.

 

So in summary, I guess if we view *cloning* as a partition-to-partition copy

operation, and not necessarily a *drive-to-drive* copy operation, then I

guess there is no real practical difference here, EXCEPT that, of course, if

one uses *imaging*, one cannot ever bootup that backup drive, of course.

 

Anyway, maybe I've got it straight by now. (if not, pse let me know).

 

Thanks,

Bill

[Guest Anna]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

 

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:eeYlgZC1IHA.552@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

(SNIP)

> So in summary, I guess if we view *cloning* as a partition-to-partition

> copy operation, and not necessarily a *drive-to-drive* copy operation,

> then I guess there is no real practical difference here, EXCEPT that, of

> course, if one uses *imaging*, one cannot ever bootup that backup drive,

> of course.

>

> Anyway, maybe I've got it straight by now. (if not, pse let me know).

>

> Thanks,

> Bill

 

 

Bill:

Yes, you have it "straight" now. The Casper disk-cloning program can clone

the contents of one partition on a multi-partitioned "source" HDD to another

partition on a multi-partitioned "destination" drive. And when the need

arises, do the same in reverse.

 

Taking your specific example of your 250 GB HDD which contains a number of

partitions including a 40 GB partition that contains your operating system

and perhaps other data, i.e., your C: partition, and you want to clone

*only* the contents of that specific partition to your 80 GB USBEHD

"destination" drive, but you don't want to use the entire 80 GB of disk

space on that drive to contain that 40 GB of data, but just another 40 GB

partition on that destination drive...

 

No problem. Using the Casper disk-cloning program it would be a simple

matter to clone the contents of that 40 GB partition on the source HDD to a

similar-sized partition or whatever other partition size you may have

established on the destination drive.

 

And should you do this on a rather frequent basis - say every few days or

once a week or even more frequently - it would probably take you not much

more than two (2) or three (3) minutes to complete the entire cloning

operation because of Casper's "SmartClone" capability.

Anna

[Guest Bill in Co.]

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Re: Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk

 

Anna wrote:

> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message

> news:eeYlgZC1IHA.552@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> (SNIP)

>> So in summary, I guess if we view *cloning* as a partition-to-partition

>> copy operation, and not necessarily a *drive-to-drive* copy operation,

>> then I guess there is no real practical difference here, EXCEPT that, of

>> course, if one uses *imaging*, one cannot ever bootup that backup drive,

>> of course.

>>

>> Anyway, maybe I've got it straight by now. (if not, pse let me know).

>>

>> Thanks,

>> Bill

>

>

> Bill:

> Yes, you have it "straight" now. The Casper disk-cloning program can clone

> the contents of one partition on a multi-partitioned "source" HDD to

> another

> partition on a multi-partitioned "destination" drive. And when the need

> arises, do the same in reverse.

 

And for me, that would always be the case. :-)

> Taking your specific example of your 250 GB HDD which contains a number of

> partitions including a 40 GB partition that contains your operating system

> and perhaps other data, i.e., your C: partition, and you want to clone

> *only* the contents of that specific partition to your 80 GB USBEHD

> "destination" drive, but you don't want to use the entire 80 GB of disk

> space on that drive to contain that 40 GB of data, but just another 40 GB

> partition on that destination drive...

>

> No problem. Using the Casper disk-cloning program it would be a simple

> matter to clone the contents of that 40 GB partition on the source HDD to

> a

> similar-sized partition or whatever other partition size you may have

> established on the destination drive.

>

> And should you do this on a rather frequent basis - say every few days or

> once a week or even more frequently - it would probably take you not much

> more than two (2) or three (3) minutes to complete the entire cloning

> operation because of Casper's "SmartClone" capability.

> Anna

 

But if I did that AND recloned it back (from the *external* USB backup drive

back to the *internal* source drive), it would surely take more than 3

minutes. Right? And that's the only way I would use the program.

 

Something else I'm not sure about is: just how reliable relying exclusively

on the Smart Cloning (or incremental in TI) feature is.

 

For some reason, it seems safer to me to (every time) do the FULL partition

backup cloning (or imaging), rather than RELY on any incremental technology

being able to keep proper track of ALL changes (with 100% certainity).

 

Of course, this method takes longer. Just to give you some idea, I have

about 20 GB of actual data (programs, data, windows, etc) on my 40 GB C:

partitition.

 

When I use True Image to make a backup image, it takes about 15 minutes (for

that 20 GB of actual data). (I am using a 1.6 GHz computer here, probably

considered a bit slow these days :-).

 

However, to restore it back to the source drive, takes almost an HOUR (but

that includes it first verifying the image, etc). And at the end, it

reboots, of course (since it's my Active partition. I presume it would

have to do the same using Casper).

 

I presume if I used Casper, it would take about the same time, UNLESS I used

the Smart Cloning bit, and *relied* on that. I'm curious about the total

time it would take however, if you have any rough ideas from your

experiences (either using or not using the Smart Cloning feature).

 

Thanks again,

Bill