Ten Reasons Not to buy Microsoft Vista at this time

June 17, 2008

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

* Carey Frisch [MVP] peremptorily fired off this memo:

> The Gutmann article is pure non-sense!

> Gutmann's claims are baseless...he never

> even ran Windows Vista!

>

> Read the truth!

>

> Peter Gutmann turns to smear tactics with help from PCWorld NZ

> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=718

>

> Claim that Vista DRM causes full CPU load and global warming debunked!

> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=673&tag=rbxccnbzd1

This is George Ou. Why would one believe him?

> Busting the FUD about Vista's DRM

> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=284

Don't know about that guy yet.

> --

> Carey Frisch

> Microsoft MVP

> Windows Desktop Experience -

> Windows Vista Enthusiast

Love! Is a many splintered thing!

--

People everywhere love Windows.

-- Bill Gates

June 17, 2008

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Carey Frisch [MVP] schreef:

> The Gutmann article is pure non-sense!

> Gutmann's claims are baseless...he never

> even ran Windows Vista!

>

> Read the truth!

>

> Peter Gutmann turns to smear tactics with help from PCWorld NZ

> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=718

>

> Claim that Vista DRM causes full CPU load and global warming debunked!

> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=673&tag=rbxccnbzd1

>

> Busting the FUD about Vista's DRM

> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=284

>

> Everything you've read about Vista DRM is wrong (Part 1)

> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=299

>

> Everything you've read about Vista DRM is wrong (Part 2)

> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=304&tag=rbxccnbzd1

>

> Everything you've read about Vista DRM is wrong (Part 3)

> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=309&tag=rbxccnbzd1

>

Carey Frisch,

Well, I do read ZDnet on a regular basis.

(Mostly when I receive in my inbox subjects like: "Martians attacked

Linux conference!", and I am in need of a break.)

ZDnet used to be a reasonable reliable source of information years ago.

I am not sure what happened lately over there (and I am sure it involves

$), but to quote bloggers like Ed Bott as a reliable source of

information...

Peter Guttmann is a researcher (Department of Computer Science at the

University of Auckland) and has nothing to gain with spreading FUD.

His article contains references, many examples, and what is more: You

must know very little about encryption/decryption to think this comes

for free.

And what is more important in my humble opinion, M$ decided to protect

direct access to hardware (read the part "Elimination of Open-source

Hardware Support").

You can shout all you want about Guttman being an idiot, Vista being the

best OS ever, etc, but that won't convince any informed person with a

little experience in the field.

But I guess your signature says it all:

------------------------------------

Carey Frisch

Microsoft MVP

Windows Desktop Experience -

Windows Vista Enthusiast

------------------------------------

I have seriously NO problem with the fact you fell in love with Vista.

Really, that is your own hobby/job/whatever, but please don't spread

misinformation in public groups and present it like facts.

I hate DRM. Let that be very clear: DRM sucks.

I bought perfectly legal CDs from Sony, only to find they had a corrupt

filesystem that made it impossible to play on my PC running a perfectly

legal OS.

(Then I tried my good old Redhat, but over there it filled my errorlog

with warnings about the corrupt filesystem.)

I ended up downloading my CDs from torrents, so I could play my CDs I

paid for on my computer!

Like it is now: DRM hits on the 'good users' while the majority of

peer-to-peer-filesharing users get working versions for free.

Nice effect. Really good thinking.

Talking about shooting yourself in the foot...

Screw DRM.

Make it work, or don't use it.

I will avoid Vista. I'll stick to 'old' XP and *nix serverside.

Regards,

Erwin Moller

June 17, 2008

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Erwin Moller wrote:

> Carey Frisch [MVP] schreef:

>> The Gutmann article is pure non-sense!

>> Gutmann's claims are baseless...he never

>> even ran Windows Vista!

>>

>> Read the truth!

>>

>> Peter Gutmann turns to smear tactics with help from PCWorld NZ

>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=718

>> Claim that Vista DRM causes full CPU load and global warming debunked!

>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=673&tag=rbxccnbzd1

>> Busting the FUD about Vista's DRM

>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=284

>> Everything you've read about Vista DRM is wrong (Part 1)

>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=299

>> Everything you've read about Vista DRM is wrong (Part 2)

>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=304&tag=rbxccnbzd1

>> Everything you've read about Vista DRM is wrong (Part 3)

>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=309&tag=rbxccnbzd1

>

> Carey Frisch,

>

> Well, I do read ZDnet on a regular basis.

> (Mostly when I receive in my inbox subjects like: "Martians attacked

> Linux conference!", and I am in need of a break.)

>

> ZDnet used to be a reasonable reliable source of information years ago.

> I am not sure what happened lately over there (and I am sure it involves

> $), but to quote bloggers like Ed Bott as a reliable source of

> information...

>

> Peter Guttmann is a researcher (Department of Computer Science at the

> University of Auckland) and has nothing to gain with spreading FUD.

> His article contains references, many examples, and what is more: You

> must know very little about encryption/decryption to think this comes

> for free.

>

> And what is more important in my humble opinion, M$ decided to protect

> direct access to hardware (read the part "Elimination of Open-source

> Hardware Support").

>

> You can shout all you want about Guttman being an idiot, Vista being the

> best OS ever, etc, but that won't convince any informed person with a

> little experience in the field.

>

> But I guess your signature says it all:

> ------------------------------------

> Carey Frisch

> Microsoft MVP

> Windows Desktop Experience -

> Windows Vista Enthusiast

> ------------------------------------

>

> I have seriously NO problem with the fact you fell in love with Vista.

> Really, that is your own hobby/job/whatever, but please don't spread

> misinformation in public groups and present it like facts.

>

> I hate DRM. Let that be very clear: DRM sucks.

> I bought perfectly legal CDs from Sony, only to find they had a corrupt

> filesystem that made it impossible to play on my PC running a perfectly

> legal OS.

> (Then I tried my good old Redhat, but over there it filled my errorlog

> with warnings about the corrupt filesystem.)

> I ended up downloading my CDs from torrents, so I could play my CDs I

> paid for on my computer!

>

> Like it is now: DRM hits on the 'good users' while the majority of

> peer-to-peer-filesharing users get working versions for free.

>

> Nice effect. Really good thinking.

> Talking about shooting yourself in the foot...

>

> Screw DRM.

> Make it work, or don't use it.

>

> I will avoid Vista. I'll stick to 'old' XP and *nix serverside.

>

> Regards,

> Erwin Moller

Very incisive and well thought out post. Not one Vista fanboy will

understand it.

Alias

June 17, 2008

Re: Reasons to NOT Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to NOT Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

On Jun 17, 5:20 am, Erwin Moller

> Screw DRM.

> Make it work, or don't use it.

>

> I will avoid Vista. I'll stick to 'old' XP and *nix serverside.

>

> Regards,

> Erwin Moller

Agree:

Quite below on Vista Vs XP:

" Would you rather throw new hardware cycles at offsetting Microsoft's

code bloat and voracious appetite for CPU bandwidth, or at a tangible,

measurable improvement in application throughput and user

productivity? Enough said. "

Interesting statistics below.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/03/17/12TC-vista-versus-xp_6.html

June 17, 2008

Re: Reasons to NOT Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to NOT Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

On Jun 17, 8:51 am, cheley_bonstel...@live.com wrote:

> On Jun 17, 5:20 am, Erwin Moller

>

> > Screw DRM.

> > Make it work, or don't use it.

>

> > I will avoid Vista. I'll stick to 'old' XP and *nix serverside.

>

> > Regards,

> > Erwin Moller

>

> Agree:

>

> Quite below on Vista Vs XP:

>

> " Would you rather throw new hardware cycles at offsetting Microsoft's

> code bloat and voracious appetite for CPU bandwidth, or at a tangible,

> measurable improvement in application throughput and user

> productivity? Enough said. "

>

> Interesting statistics below.

>

> http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/03/17/12TC-vista-versus-xp_6.html

thanks for the link.

i'm in the market for a new laptop and have been looking for one with

XP.

i feel better about my decision now.

June 17, 2008

Re: Reasons to NOT Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to NOT Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

On Jun 17, 9:12 am, mcnews <mcour...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> On Jun 17, 8:51 am, cheley_bonstel...@live.com wrote:

>

> > On Jun 17, 5:20 am, Erwin Moller

>

> > > Screw DRM.

> > > Make it work, or don't use it.

>

> > > I will avoid Vista. I'll stick to 'old' XP and *nix serverside.

>

> > > Regards,

> > > Erwin Moller

>

> > Agree:

>

> > Quite below on Vista Vs XP:

>

> > " Would you rather throw new hardware cycles at offsetting Microsoft's

> > code bloat and voracious appetite for CPU bandwidth, or at a tangible,

> > measurable improvement in application throughput and user

> > productivity? Enough said. "

>

> > Interesting statistics below.

>

> >http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/03/17/12TC-vista-versus-xp_6.html

>

> thanks for the link.

> i'm in the market for a new laptop and have been looking for one with

> XP.

> i feel better about my decision now.

Good to hear

I'm tired of my friends who've gotten hosed by Vista not being able to

do the simplest thing with Vista.

Worse, they think it's them, and have no problem with PDA's .

Vista is also driving people over to MAC and Linux Flavors

IMHO, Microsoft has done a great disservice to the IT world in general

by Killing

Windows XP.

- SO , get it while you can.

June 17, 2008

Re: Reasons to NOT Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to NOT Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

<cheley_bonstell88@live.com> wrote in message

news:5b64d0d5-3c3b-4dc2-b100-1b8c6ae86ee4@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

On Jun 17, 5:20 am, Erwin Moller

> Screw DRM.

> Make it work, or don't use it.

>

> I will avoid Vista. I'll stick to 'old' XP and *nix serverside.

>

> Regards,

> Erwin Moller

Agree:

Quite below on Vista Vs XP:

" Would you rather throw new hardware cycles at offsetting Microsoft's

code bloat and voracious appetite for CPU bandwidth, or at a tangible,

measurable improvement in application throughput and user

productivity? Enough said. "

Interesting statistics below.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/03/17/12TC-vista-versus-xp_6.html

-----

That was a good article. Good find.

June 17, 2008

Re: Reasons to NOT Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to NOT Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

On Jun 17, 6:12 am, mcnews <mcour...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> On Jun 17, 8:51 am, cheley_bonstel...@live.com wrote:

>

> > On Jun 17, 5:20 am, Erwin Moller

>

> > > Screw DRM.

> > > Make it work, or don't use it.

>

> > > I will avoid Vista. I'll stick to 'old' XP and *nix serverside.

>

> > > Regards,

> > > Erwin Moller

>

> > Agree:

>

> > Quite below on Vista Vs XP:

>

> > " Would you rather throw new hardware cycles at offsetting Microsoft's

> > code bloat and voracious appetite for CPU bandwidth, or at a tangible,

> > measurable improvement in application throughput and user

> > productivity? Enough said. "

>

> > Interesting statistics below.

>

> >http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/03/17/12TC-vista-versus-xp_6.html

>

> thanks for the link.

> i'm in the market for a new laptop and have been looking for one with

> XP.

> i feel better about my decision now.

Or try a laptop with Linux. Or a Mac. See

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/explaining-the-macintosh-surge/

June 17, 2008

Re: Reasons to NOT Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to NOT Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

<cheley_bonstell88@live.com> wrote in message

news:7f7157a8-f48a-4d64-b601-1ef10b64a94f@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

>I'm tired of my friends who've gotten hosed by Vista not being able to

>do the simplest thing with Vista.

>Worse, they think it's them, and have no problem with PDA's .

>

>Vista is also driving people over to MAC and Linux Flavors

>

>IMHO, Microsoft has done a great disservice to the IT world in general

>by Killing

>Windows XP.

>

>- SO , get it while you can.

I am skipping the XP rush. I have 4 XP OEM licensed systems, 2 of which

still run XP, one in dual boot. But have recoveries for the others. No

sense in spending more money on Microsoft.

I think this is great for the IT world. Finally it isn't like a Borg fest

out there and asking for Linux is being listened too. Especially when you

let them know you need a X-Windows server to do your job. No extra charge

with Linux.

At home, people are looking at Macs, a relative just had a PC crap out and

to fix it does not make sense. So they are shopping. They haven't decided

yet, they are looking at an Apple and a XP. They already have decided no to

Vista after talking to a relative who wanted Vista and is now stuck with it.

I wasn't even involved, LOL.

Killing XP will force the IT world to take a long serious look at how locked

they want to be on Microsoft going forward and the costs of such a move.

June 17, 2008

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

On Jun 16, 2:41 pm, Anteaus <Ante...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

> Yep, I think it's clear that Microsoft got shafted by Hollywood over this DRM

> deal.

I'm not sure I'd say they got shafted. It looks to me like Ballmer

hoped his DVD-based OS would, with the help of Hollywood, lock

consumers of digital entertainment into his OS forever, and he'd get a

cut on every playback.

To the cost of many thousands of hours of coding work on what could

> have been a great OS, had it been designed with performance instead of DRM as

> the prime consideration.

>

> Still I'm relieved that DRM has been so forcefully rejected by the

> computer-buying public, after all the future of a DRM-laced computer industry

> would have been a bleak one indeed.

>

> On the same subject, we were discussing the issue of whether DVD encryption

> and regionalization

I just recently found out that my Ubuntu system completely and

automatically bypasses region coding. This was quite a PITA for me,

since I have some DVD's bought (legally, I might add) in Europe. I

can't play them on my Mac (haven't tried on a Windows machine but the

issues are the same) because it only allows a maximum of 5 changes of

region (that is, I can't play a mixture of European and US DVDs). On

Ubuntu---no problem!

> > > new audio stack?

> > > You mean of course wasting CPU cycles by encrypting everything coming

> > > from DVD, blue ray, etc?

> > >http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

June 17, 2008

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

> > --

> > Carey Frisch

> > Microsoft MVP

> > Windows Desktop Experience -

> > Windows Vista Enthusiast

>

> Love! Is a many splintered thing!

Looks like we got tangled up in some Windows ngs. Scarey.

June 17, 2008

Re: Reasons to NOT Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to NOT Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:36:16 +0000, Canuck57 wrote:

> <cheley_bonstell88@live.com> wrote in message

> news:7f7157a8-f48a-4d64-

b601-1ef10b64a94f@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

>

>>I'm tired of my friends who've gotten hosed by Vista not being able to

>>do the simplest thing with Vista.

>>Worse, they think it's them, and have no problem with PDA's .

>>

>>Vista is also driving people over to MAC and Linux Flavors

>>

>>IMHO, Microsoft has done a great disservice to the IT world in general

>>by Killing

>>Windows XP.

>>

>>- SO , get it while you can.

>

> I am skipping the XP rush. I have 4 XP OEM licensed systems, 2 of which

> still run XP, one in dual boot. But have recoveries for the others. No

> sense in spending more money on Microsoft.

>

> I think this is great for the IT world. Finally it isn't like a Borg

> fest out there and asking for Linux is being listened too. Especially

> when you let them know you need a X-Windows server to do your job. No

> extra charge with Linux.

>

> At home, people are looking at Macs, a relative just had a PC crap out

> and to fix it does not make sense. So they are shopping. They haven't

> decided yet, they are looking at an Apple and a XP. They already have

> decided no to Vista after talking to a relative who wanted Vista and is

> now stuck with it. I wasn't even involved, LOL.

>

> Killing XP will force the IT world to take a long serious look at how

> locked they want to be on Microsoft going forward and the costs of such

> a move.

.... and then, unfortunately, most will decide to stay with Microsoft.

--

Rick

June 17, 2008

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

"stilicho" <nessuno@wigner.berkeley.edu> wrote in message

news:a6360bf6-cb16-4784-8945-d3422eeba16e@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...

> I just recently found out that my Ubuntu system completely and

> automatically bypasses region coding.

So you have installed the DVD code, the illegal stuff?

> This was quite a PITA for me,

> since I have some DVD's bought (legally, I might add

Why tell us it legal when you have installed illegal software to play them?

You may as well have downloaded the region free versions off the net.

> ) in Europe. I

> can't play them on my Mac (haven't tried on a Windows machine but the

> issues are the same) because it only allows a maximum of 5 changes of

> region (that is, I can't play a mixture of European and US DVDs). On

> Ubuntu---no problem!

Its no problem on windows either if you want to install illegal software

but at least we can play DVDs in one region legally while you can't on

ubuntu.

You really shouldn't have bought the legality into this thread. ;-)

June 18, 2008

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

On Jun 17, 12:11 pm, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net>

wrote:

> "stilicho" <ness...@wigner.berkeley.edu> wrote in message

>

> news:a6360bf6-cb16-4784-8945-d3422eeba16e@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...

>

> > I just recently found out that my Ubuntu system completely and

> > automatically bypasses region coding.

>

> So you have installed the DVD code, the illegal stuff?

>

> > This was quite a PITA for me,

> > since I have some DVD's bought (legally, I might add

>

> Why tell us it legal when you have installed illegal software to play them?

> You may as well have downloaded the region free versions off the net.

>

> > ) in Europe. I

> > can't play them on my Mac (haven't tried on a Windows machine but the

> > issues are the same) because it only allows a maximum of 5 changes of

> > region (that is, I can't play a mixture of European and US DVDs). On

> > Ubuntu---no problem!

>

> Its no problem on windows either if you want to install illegal software

> but at least we can play DVDs in one region legally while you can't on

> ubuntu.

>

> You really shouldn't have bought the legality into this thread. ;-)

You are correct that I could have installed software to circumvent css

on Windows or Macs.

The software I use under ubuntu is libdvdcss. It is common, almost

universal, on Linux machines because without it you cannot play most

DVDs at all.

However, it is not at all clear that libdvdcss is illegal. I quote

from wikipedia:

"Unlike DeCSS, libdvdcss has never been fought over in a courtroom, in

part because Section 1201(f) of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act

authorizes such circumvention for purposes of software

interoperability."

June 19, 2008

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

The Ghost In The Machine <ewill@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in

news:rv4ji5-e9c.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net:

>>

>> Well....MS hasn't thought that making a LiveCD would be a good idea.

>

> I could see them making a 3-day demo CD. The technology is

> already available for songs; after 3 days the CD oxidizes

> to the point of unreadability. A time bomb could also be

> put in the OS itself; this time bomb would render an ISO

> image useless after 3-4 days unless a user resets the clock.

After a little more digging, I see that the Vista LiveCD is fake !!!

I should have known by the size, as you pointed out, and done the digging

before I mentioned it.

June 19, 2008

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

Re: Reasons to Buy Microsoft Vista at this time

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