Could use a general education on where things are stored on my PC

[Guest tcarp]

I've started a high-level inventory of my PC laptop. I used add/remove

programs as the starting point to list the applications. The other part is

an inventory of C:drive files/folders.

 

One objective for the work is to get a better understand of where things are

and how they're used for backup and recovery purposes. Using Outlook as an

example, it would be nice to know where all the components are stored that

have some sort of settings or user data. I know about the .pst files, what

they contain, and where they're located but don't know where settings

(accounts, etc.) are stored. I'll get the knowledge about individual

applications via posts specific to those applications.

 

The question here is about what I see as folders/files on my C-drive and, in

general, what's stored in them. I duplicated this question in the bowels of

another thread but it was beginning to get off-subject.

 

Here's the list of folders:

 

9a5160959c527400938408 (only one txt file; a verbose log)

css (actual css; along with html, images, and js appear to be from Crystal

Reports)

Documents and Settings

html (see above)

images (see above. A bunch of nav and other button gifs.)

js (see above. Java scripts)

MSOCache (hidden, assume to be part of the system)

Palm (the application and data folder for my ancient PDA)

Program Files

prompting (css, html, images, and js probably also from Crystal)

RECYCLER (hidden assumed to be part of the system)

System Volume Information (hidden, assumed to be part of the system)

Temp (empty)

Windows

 

As I look at these, the big three appear to be Documents and Settings,

Program Files, and Windows. Am I correct in assuming that the Windows folder

(possibly along with the hidden folders) is all that's needed to have a

runable Windows system? I'm not ignoring the files listed below.

 

The files on the C-drive:

 

AUTOEXEC.BAT

boot.ini

config.sys

drwtsn32.log

IO.SYS

MSDOS.SYS

NTDETECT.COM

ntldr

pagefile.sys

 

All of these are hidden so I'm assuming they are needed to have a runable

system.

 

Am I nieve to assume that in general the Program Files are, in fact, all the

applications and the Documents and Settings are, in fact, my documents and

application configuration settings files. Or am I only wishful?

 

Thanks

 

Tom

[Guest Malke]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my PC

 

tcarp wrote:

 

(snippage and comments inline)

> The question here is about what I see as folders/files on my C-drive and,

> in

> general, what's stored in them. I duplicated this question in the bowels

> of another thread but it was beginning to get off-subject.

> As I look at these, the big three appear to be Documents and Settings,

> Program Files, and Windows. Am I correct in assuming that the Windows

> folder (possibly along with the hidden folders) is all that's needed to

> have a runable Windows system?

 

No, you aren't correct. See below for how to back up your system.

> I'm not ignoring the files listed below.

>

> The files on the C-drive:

>

> AUTOEXEC.BAT

> boot.ini

> config.sys

> drwtsn32.log

> IO.SYS

> MSDOS.SYS

> NTDETECT.COM

> ntldr

> pagefile.sys

>

> All of these are hidden so I'm assuming they are needed to have a runable

> system.

 

XP doesn't use autoexec.bat, io.sys, msdos.sys, or config.sys. They are

there only for backwards compatibility. The other files are necessary.

> Am I nieve to assume that in general the Program Files are, in fact, all

> the applications and the Documents and Settings are, in fact, my documents

> and

> application configuration settings files. Or am I only wishful?

 

"Documents and Settings" is the "container" for all user settings. Each user

will have [username] Documents, Music, Videos, My Pictures. In general,

installed programs will put their program files in the Program Files

directory, however that depends on the program. Some older programs will

use the root of C:\ instead.

 

Most programs will save their data in your My Documents directory but this

depends on the program. Some older programs will save at the root of C: or

in the Shared Documents folder. You need to examine the options of each

program that you use to determine this. You also need to examine how each

program saves - and just as importantly, restores - that data. For example,

some programs like QuickBooks and Quicken will want you to backup from

within the program and restore from within the program.

 

There are two different ways to approach backup. To get back a completely

working install, configured exactly the way you want, you should use an

imaging program like Acronis True Image. Purchase an external hard drive

and store the images on it. True Image can also do incremental backups.

 

http://www.acronis.com

 

You can also back up just your data, either by copying it to the external

hard drive manually or by using a backup program. I like Second Copy from

http://www.centered.com. It is inexpensive ($29.95), flexible, and doesn't put the

copied data into a proprietary format.

 

In addition to regularly backing up to an external hard drive, I also

suggest periodically burning the data to CD/DVD-R and storing it off-site

or at least in a safe place not next to the computer.

 

 

Malke

--

MS-MVP

Elephant Boy Computers

http://www.elephantboycomputers.com

Don't Panic!

[Guest tcarp]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

Thanks for the post on the files and folders.

> There are two different ways to approach backup. To get back a completely

> working install, configured exactly the way you want, you should use an

> imaging program like Acronis True Image. Purchase an external hard drive

> and store the images on it. True Image can also do incremental backups.

 

I'm duplicating some questions on a couple threads here, but I'm updating my

understanding about backup strategies and tools and am trying to keep the

threads focused on specific subjects.

 

I've been using a file/folder backup tool (Retrospect) for some time now for

our Mac and both our PC laptops so I'm fairly familiar with running those

types of backups. I'm beginning to learn that there are also clone/imaging

tools out there too like the one you mentioned.

 

Since it appears you run both types, can you comment on what I think I

understand about the differences.

 

From what I can tell, clone/imaging tools create an exact duplicate of the

files being backed up on another HD or on a partition on the internal HD. I

think some or all of them also allow for the creation of the boot

capabilities on these backups and it sounds like some or all allow for

incrementals.

 

Since the data is not compressed or put into a single file, I'm assuming the

only "price" paid is for HD space.

 

Since file/folder backups essentially accomplish the same thing as the

clone/image backups why would you have both (unless, of course, you were

using the tool in a business environment where recovery speed was at a

premium)? I understand that it's only about $50 for imaging and $30 or so

for file/folder tools so it's not the cost. I'm working on my whole backup

strategy and what to understand the "why" behind the design.

 

Thanks

 

Tom

[Guest Malke]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

tcarp wrote:

> Thanks for the post on the files and folders.

>

>> There are two different ways to approach backup. To get back a completely

>> working install, configured exactly the way you want, you should use an

>> imaging program like Acronis True Image. Purchase an external hard drive

>> and store the images on it. True Image can also do incremental backups.

>

> I'm duplicating some questions on a couple threads here, but I'm updating

> my understanding about backup strategies and tools and am trying to keep

> the threads focused on specific subjects.

>

> I've been using a file/folder backup tool (Retrospect) for some time now

> for our Mac and both our PC laptops so I'm fairly familiar with running

> those

> types of backups. I'm beginning to learn that there are also

> clone/imaging tools out there too like the one you mentioned.

>

> Since it appears you run both types, can you comment on what I think I

> understand about the differences.

>

> From what I can tell, clone/imaging tools create an exact duplicate of the

> files being backed up on another HD or on a partition on the internal HD.

> I think some or all of them also allow for the creation of the boot

> capabilities on these backups and it sounds like some or all allow for

> incrementals.

>

> Since the data is not compressed or put into a single file, I'm assuming

> the only "price" paid is for HD space.

>

> Since file/folder backups essentially accomplish the same thing as the

> clone/image backups why would you have both (unless, of course, you were

> using the tool in a business environment where recovery speed was at a

> premium)? I understand that it's only about $50 for imaging and $30 or so

> for file/folder tools so it's not the cost. I'm working on my whole

> backup strategy and what to understand the "why" behind the design.

 

Cloning does exactly what it says: makes an exact image of a drive. Cloning

is normally used when replacing an entire hard drive.

 

Imaging does exactly what it says: makes an image of a drive or a partition.

The image is compressed.

 

For more exact information about cloning and imaging, go to Acronis's

website (which I already gave you) and read about it there. You don't have

to purchase that particular program just because I like it; there are

others. But Acronis has good information about the whole concept that will

answer your questions more thoroughly than I can in a newsgroup.

 

Backing up files/folders does not accomplish the same purpose as imaging at

all.

 

Probably for a small mixed operating system network like yours, I would:

 

1. Have a central NAS to hold images and backups (Google it) or use Apple's

new Time Capsule.

 

2. Run Second Copy on one of the Windows machines, create profiles to back

up all pertinent stuff on all the other Windows boxen, and funnel all the

backups to one backup folder on the NAS/Time Capsule. This makes burning to

DVD very easy since everything is now in one place.

 

3. Occasionally image the Windows machines with True Image so you can get

back to a working system in minutes instead of hours. Store the images on

the NAS/Time Capsule.

 

4. For the Macs, use Time Machine with the NAS (if supported, I honestly

don't remember if it is). Obviously Time Machine works with Time Capsule.

For my MacBook, I also use Super Duper regularly so I can get back easily

and quickly to a working system. I prefer that aspect of Super Duper to

Time Machine although of course I run Time Machine too.

 

Hope that helped,

 

 

Malke

--

MS-MVP

Elephant Boy Computers

http://www.elephantboycomputers.com

Don't Panic!

[Guest tcarp]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

 

 

"Malke" wrote:

> tcarp wrote:

>

> > Thanks for the post on the files and folders.

> >

> >> There are two different ways to approach backup. To get back a completely

> >> working install, configured exactly the way you want, you should use an

> >> imaging program like Acronis True Image. Purchase an external hard drive

> >> and store the images on it. True Image can also do incremental backups.

> >

> > I'm duplicating some questions on a couple threads here, but I'm updating

> > my understanding about backup strategies and tools and am trying to keep

> > the threads focused on specific subjects.

> >

> > I've been using a file/folder backup tool (Retrospect) for some time now

> > for our Mac and both our PC laptops so I'm fairly familiar with running

> > those

> > types of backups. I'm beginning to learn that there are also

> > clone/imaging tools out there too like the one you mentioned.

> >

> > Since it appears you run both types, can you comment on what I think I

> > understand about the differences.

> >

> > From what I can tell, clone/imaging tools create an exact duplicate of the

> > files being backed up on another HD or on a partition on the internal HD.

> > I think some or all of them also allow for the creation of the boot

> > capabilities on these backups and it sounds like some or all allow for

> > incrementals.

> >

> > Since the data is not compressed or put into a single file, I'm assuming

> > the only "price" paid is for HD space.

> >

> > Since file/folder backups essentially accomplish the same thing as the

> > clone/image backups why would you have both (unless, of course, you were

> > using the tool in a business environment where recovery speed was at a

> > premium)? I understand that it's only about $50 for imaging and $30 or so

> > for file/folder tools so it's not the cost. I'm working on my whole

> > backup strategy and what to understand the "why" behind the design.

>

> Cloning does exactly what it says: makes an exact image of a drive. Cloning

> is normally used when replacing an entire hard drive.

>

> Imaging does exactly what it says: makes an image of a drive or a partition.

> The image is compressed.

>

> For more exact information about cloning and imaging, go to Acronis's

> website (which I already gave you) and read about it there. You don't have

> to purchase that particular program just because I like it; there are

> others. But Acronis has good information about the whole concept that will

> answer your questions more thoroughly than I can in a newsgroup.

>

Thanks for the reference. I'll do some more homework.

>

> Probably for a small mixed operating system network like yours, I would:

>

> 1. Have a central NAS to hold images and backups (Google it) or use Apple's

> new Time Capsule.

 

"Google it"??? Only know Google from their web search tool.

 

Interestingly I'm in the process of making my Mac into more of a server for

the home. The Mac was my first machine (way, way back) and now, with the PC

laptops, I don't use it for applications much anymore. The idea is to turn

it into a server (file and, if things network better these days, print).

> 2. Run Second Copy on one of the Windows machines, create profiles to back

> up all pertinent stuff on all the other Windows boxen, and funnel all the

> backups to one backup folder on the NAS/Time Capsule. This makes burning to

> DVD very easy since everything is now in one place.

 

I'll have to get more familiar with the technique but thanks for the

direction.

> 3. Occasionally image the Windows machines with True Image so you can get

> back to a working system in minutes instead of hours. Store the images on

> the NAS/Time Capsule.

>

> 4. For the Macs, use Time Machine with the NAS (if supported, I honestly

> don't remember if it is). Obviously Time Machine works with Time Capsule.

> For my MacBook, I also use Super Duper regularly so I can get back easily

> and quickly to a working system. I prefer that aspect of Super Duper to

> Time Machine although of course I run Time Machine too.

>

> Hope that helped,

 

A great deal! Its time for me to do some homework and put together a backup

design. I'll probably come back to have separate eyes look at it.

 

As I did some quite searches for authoritative comparisons between backup

software I found mostly the extremes (loved it or hated it). Since I can't

tell how much is marketing or user issues, and since I don't want to go into

a "best product search" I also appreciate comments on what's simple (given

this is a small home network) and relatively easy to use.

 

The other topic will be about restores. For example, a friend could have

used a complete reinstall of windows and knowing roughly how to do that in

advance will also take some forum time.

 

Tom

[Guest tcarp]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

> You can also back up just your data, either by copying it to the external

> hard drive manually or by using a backup program. I like Second Copy from

> http://www.centered.com. It is inexpensive ($29.95), flexible, and doesn't put the

> copied data into a proprietary format.

 

You mentioned proprietary format here. Is it your opinion that it's a

better choice to not use the proprietary format (if there's an option like I

have with Retrospect) or select a tool that doesn't use it? I'm assuming the

reason is that you don't have to have a copy of the application to do

restores. The trade off, I assume, is disk space. Do I have that right?

[Guest Anthony Buckland]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

 

"Malke" <malke@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

news:%23q0yq1T0IHA.548@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> ...

> Imaging does exactly what it says: makes an image of a drive or a

> partition.

> The image is compressed.

>

> For more exact information about cloning and imaging, go to Acronis's

> website (which I already gave you) and read about it there. You don't have

> to purchase that particular program just because I like it; there are

> others. But Acronis has good information about the whole concept that will

> answer your questions more thoroughly than I can in a newsgroup.

>

> Backing up files/folders does not accomplish the same purpose as imaging

> at

> all.

> ...

 

It's worth bearing in mind that an image can be used as a backup of

files and folders too. One tool, both purposes. In TI, "plug" an image,

and you have a temporary virtual partition you can open and explore

just like your permanent one. In there, you will find the saved version of

a folder, or an individual file within a folder. I've used this technique

more

than once to restore a file or two. Good for data you accidentally

deleted or messed up, or for system files that have gone bye-bye, losing

you a driver or a dll. The only time overhead is in making the full-

partition backup in the first place -- but then you did that anyway as

good strategy.

[Guest PA20Pilot]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

Hi,

 

.........Since file/folder backups essentially accomplish the same thing

as the clone/image backups why would you have both

 

Good question, normally you wouldn't use both. A little back to basics

here, but a clone is like holding twins, one in each hand. An image

often as not means your original disk in one hand and a single giant

compressed file that's a copy of your hard drives contents in your other

hand. Both hands hold all the info you'll need, but they are stored in

different ways.

 

........better choice to not use the proprietary format ...... I'm

assuming the reason is that you don't have to have a copy of the

application to do restores.

 

That too, but most have a way that'll help you boot and get things up

and running again.

 

Also you can slap your clone in someone elses computer and transfer

things drag and drop easy. Some images are about as easy to use as a

clone, but more than likely you can't swap the jumpers, plug in the disk

holding an image and have your computer boot as it did before it broke.

Reloading an image may or may not have the outcome as easy as you're

expecting.

 

---==X={}=X==---

 

Jim Self

 

AVIATION ANIMATION, the internet's largest depository.

http://avanimation.avsupport.com

 

Your only internet source for spiral staircase plans.

http://jself.com/stair/Stair.htm

 

Experimental Aircraft Association #140897

EAA Technical Counselor #4562

[Guest tcarp]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

>

> Also you can slap your clone in someone elses computer and transfer

> things drag and drop easy. Some images are about as easy to use as a

> clone, but more than likely you can't swap the jumpers, plug in the disk

> holding an image and have your computer boot as it did before it broke.

> Reloading an image may or may not have the outcome as easy as you're

> expecting.

>

You hopped on another thread I started with a bit more specific subject that

this one (which was the first I started - much in the dark at that time).

 

I won't duplicate my reply to your posts on that thread here.

 

Just thanks

 

Tom

 

P.S. Ex-Boeing guy

[Guest PA20Pilot]

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

Re: Could use a general education on where things are stored on my

 

Hi again,

 

.......P.S. Ex-Boeing guy

 

Did you learn something you would like to share?

 

 

---==X={}=X==---

 

Jim Self

 

AVIATION ANIMATION, the internet's largest depository.

http://avanimation.avsupport.com

 

Your only internet source for spiral staircase plans.

http://jself.com/stair/Stair.htm

 

Experimental Aircraft Association #140897

EAA Technical Counselor #4562