Dual Boot ???????

[Guest piccolo]

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Thanks for the education. I am a whole different level of sophistication; I

can barely get my wireless LAN to work so the concept of multiple virtual

machines doing different things, while not conceptually beyond my grasp,

represents a level of detailed knowledge that I don't have.

--

Regards,

 

Piccolo

 

 

"Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:

> Two partitions aren't different machines. But two machines, running as two

> independent operating systems, are. What you fail to grasp is that a virtual

> machine is EXACTLY like a physical one. It runs indepently of any other VM,

> or physical machine. So, for example, I have a server here, running Windows

> Server 2008, and it has a total of 10 VMs on it. Three copies of vista, two

> of XP, a Terminal Server, a pair of domain controllers, and some other

> stuff. Those machines are on three different networks - the TS is on my

> production network (and providing the ability to write this message via TS

> RemoteApps from a laptop that doesn't have internet connectivity right now),

> and there are two different domains there. One of which includes an Exchange

> Server. Now, if I wanted to have that all running here, I'd have to have 10

> different physical computers. Instead, I have one physical computer, with

> two processors and 16 GB of RAM. Wish I could bump that machine up to 32 GB,

> but that's not in the cards right now.

>

> Stop thinking of the physical host as anything except the storage container.

> My working machines are all virtual at this point, except for personal

> workstations. And even that might change - I'm considering moving to all

> thin clients for personal desktops.

>

> --

> Charlie.

> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

>

> "piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:A33F383E-E410-4676-B59E-5E1F4627911C@microsoft.com...

> > Colin,

> >

> > Mostly out of curiosity, why are two partitions on the same hard drive

> > considered different machines? or two hard drives within the same PC? Does

> > that mean that, in the future when there are multiple CPUs and drives in a

> > machine, there will have to be multiple licenses? The lawyer in me boggles

> > at

> > some of the drafting complexities.

> >

> > Anyway thanks for your help.

> > --

> > Regards,

> >

> > Piccolo

> >

> >

> > "Colin Barnhorst" wrote:

> >

> >> "piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> >> news:F54EEECE-E316-4E23-81D0-C74E6CA2578A@microsoft.com...

> >> > Thanks for the very prompt responses.

> >> >

> >> > However, I am also a bit confused about Virtual PC. Right after I

> >> > posted

> >> > the

> >> > other two messages, I found Virtual PC on the Microsoft website. It is

> >> > described as a free download that will enable one to run legacy systems

> >> > on

> >> > a

> >> > new computer; what is not very clear is how one does it and what is

> >> > required.

> >> > Needless to say, we have several other computers running a mixture of

> >> > Windows

> >> > XP Home 32-bit and Windows XP Pro 32-bit, all with OEM licenses. You

> >> > message

> >> > seems to suggest that if I want to run Virtual PC on my 64-bit machine,

> >> > I

> >> > will need not only to download Virtual PC but also BUY a new version of

> >> > Windows XP 32-bit. If that is true, it seems pretty disingenious of

> >> > Microsoft

> >> > to call Virtual PC "free".

> >> >

> >> > Since it frankly doesn't make much sense to write software that is

> >> > designed

> >> > to facilitate compatibility with legacy systems and then charge for an

> >> > additional OS, I assume I have become confused and that either Virtual

> >> > PC

> >> > includes the legacy systems somehow OR one is able to load the designed

> >> > secondary OSs from the original OEM disks without having a license

> >> > violation.

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >> About OEM licenses. The consumer_oem eula does not permit transfer of

> >> the

> >> license to another device, and blades and partitions are defined as

> >> separate

> >> devices. Even within the same computer. A virtual machine partition is

> >> a

> >> separate device. Therefore the OEM license on the machine cannot be

> >> transferred to a vm even on the same machine. To do so would also leave

> >> the

> >> Host OS unlicensed anyway.

> >>

>

[Guest Charlie Russel - MVP]

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

This is a concept that a lot of people still seem to have trouble grasping.

Even when they know, intellectually, how it works, it still takes an

internal shift to understand it implicitly. My coauthor still wants to know

what physical machine a given server is on, even though she doesn't actually

have to manage the host at all. To me, it's at an IP address. The physical

location is subject to change as required. That, by the way, is one of the

real beauties of virtualization. Overloaded on server1? Move the VM to

server2, which has lots of RAM and CPU to spare. It's as easy as moving the

files and export/import of the configuration. Or, if you're using something

like System Center Virtual Machine Manager (SCVMM), it can move the machine

on the fly.

 

--

Charlie.

http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

 

 

"piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:B229F1D1-092C-439F-8647-A625F76069F7@microsoft.com...

> Thanks for the education. I am a whole different level of sophistication;

> I

> can barely get my wireless LAN to work so the concept of multiple virtual

> machines doing different things, while not conceptually beyond my grasp,

> represents a level of detailed knowledge that I don't have.

> --

> Regards,

>

> Piccolo

>

>

> "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:

>

>> Two partitions aren't different machines. But two machines, running as

>> two

>> independent operating systems, are. What you fail to grasp is that a

>> virtual

>> machine is EXACTLY like a physical one. It runs indepently of any other

>> VM,

>> or physical machine. So, for example, I have a server here, running

>> Windows

>> Server 2008, and it has a total of 10 VMs on it. Three copies of vista,

>> two

>> of XP, a Terminal Server, a pair of domain controllers, and some other

>> stuff. Those machines are on three different networks - the TS is on my

>> production network (and providing the ability to write this message via

>> TS

>> RemoteApps from a laptop that doesn't have internet connectivity right

>> now),

>> and there are two different domains there. One of which includes an

>> Exchange

>> Server. Now, if I wanted to have that all running here, I'd have to have

>> 10

>> different physical computers. Instead, I have one physical computer, with

>> two processors and 16 GB of RAM. Wish I could bump that machine up to 32

>> GB,

>> but that's not in the cards right now.

>>

>> Stop thinking of the physical host as anything except the storage

>> container.

>> My working machines are all virtual at this point, except for personal

>> workstations. And even that might change - I'm considering moving to all

>> thin clients for personal desktops.

>>

>> --

>> Charlie.

>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

>>

>> "piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:A33F383E-E410-4676-B59E-5E1F4627911C@microsoft.com...

>> > Colin,

>> >

>> > Mostly out of curiosity, why are two partitions on the same hard drive

>> > considered different machines? or two hard drives within the same PC?

>> > Does

>> > that mean that, in the future when there are multiple CPUs and drives

>> > in a

>> > machine, there will have to be multiple licenses? The lawyer in me

>> > boggles

>> > at

>> > some of the drafting complexities.

>> >

>> > Anyway thanks for your help.

>> > --

>> > Regards,

>> >

>> > Piccolo

>> >

>> >

>> > "Colin Barnhorst" wrote:

>> >

>> >> "piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> >> news:F54EEECE-E316-4E23-81D0-C74E6CA2578A@microsoft.com...

>> >> > Thanks for the very prompt responses.

>> >> >

>> >> > However, I am also a bit confused about Virtual PC. Right after I

>> >> > posted

>> >> > the

>> >> > other two messages, I found Virtual PC on the Microsoft website. It

>> >> > is

>> >> > described as a free download that will enable one to run legacy

>> >> > systems

>> >> > on

>> >> > a

>> >> > new computer; what is not very clear is how one does it and what is

>> >> > required.

>> >> > Needless to say, we have several other computers running a mixture

>> >> > of

>> >> > Windows

>> >> > XP Home 32-bit and Windows XP Pro 32-bit, all with OEM licenses. You

>> >> > message

>> >> > seems to suggest that if I want to run Virtual PC on my 64-bit

>> >> > machine,

>> >> > I

>> >> > will need not only to download Virtual PC but also BUY a new version

>> >> > of

>> >> > Windows XP 32-bit. If that is true, it seems pretty disingenious of

>> >> > Microsoft

>> >> > to call Virtual PC "free".

>> >> >

>> >> > Since it frankly doesn't make much sense to write software that is

>> >> > designed

>> >> > to facilitate compatibility with legacy systems and then charge for

>> >> > an

>> >> > additional OS, I assume I have become confused and that either

>> >> > Virtual

>> >> > PC

>> >> > includes the legacy systems somehow OR one is able to load the

>> >> > designed

>> >> > secondary OSs from the original OEM disks without having a license

>> >> > violation.

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> About OEM licenses. The consumer_oem eula does not permit transfer of

>> >> the

>> >> license to another device, and blades and partitions are defined as

>> >> separate

>> >> devices. Even within the same computer. A virtual machine partition

>> >> is

>> >> a

>> >> separate device. Therefore the OEM license on the machine cannot be

>> >> transferred to a vm even on the same machine. To do so would also

>> >> leave

>> >> the

>> >> Host OS unlicensed anyway.

>> >>

>>

[Guest piccolo]

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

I don't think the programs that I am likely to run on the virtual machine

will require more than 512Mb but I might stick 1024Mb in as the limit since I

don't think I will actually leave the virtual machine running at all times.

 

What I miss about my printer is the scanner so I will get a parallel cable

and do it the old-fashioned way.

 

Are you telling me that, as part of the creation of the VPC, I automatically

create a hard drive and therefore I do not need to partition anything but can

skip that part of the process?

 

I think I now know enough to take the plunge and do it. Thanks again. I'll

go bug the other newsgroup if I have problems.

--

Regards,

 

Piccolo

 

 

"Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:

> We're getting pretty far off the topic for this newsgroup here (there is a

> microsoft.public.virtualpc NG), but:

>

> 512 Mb would be more than enough for most XP 32-bit machines, depending on

> what you're doing. Remember, there's no magic here. Give the VM the exact

> same RAM you'd give a physical machine doing that same level of work. The

> RAM is only used by the VM when it's running, IF you shut it down when

> you're not using it. If you "save state" it will still hold on to its RAM.

>

> On the question of connecting to your printer - actually the best solution

> here is to connect via ethernet. A cheap wired or wireless Print Server is

> the best solution to providing full connectivity to your printer from any

> machine on your network. And it's platform independant - If you change OS's

> you don't care, it's still reachable. For "all in one" things, however,

> you're likely to have problems with the non-printing functions, since

> network scanning is less well handled.

>

> If you really need USB and nothing else will solve it, VMWare Workstation is

> a better solution than VirtualPC. It supports USB connectivity. It's not

> free (though they do have a free product, VMWare Server, but I don't think

> it's as good a fit for you from a usability standpoint.)

>

> When you create the Virtual Machine, you create a hard disk. If you want a

> second partition, create a second hard disk. Don't partition the first. That

> virtual hard disk is a .VHD file on the host's file system.

>

> --

> Charlie.

> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

>

> "piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:0F789C02-97E1-4448-B7DD-815CF5EC5F80@microsoft.com...

> > Jeff,

> >

> > Refining a bit:

> >

> > I take the point about OSs made by all. Never having thought about virtual

> > machines before, the Virtual PC struck me as a way to market Vista rather

> > than something in its own right.

> >

> > 1. Would 1.024gb of RAM be enough to run WinXP 32 reasonably? And is this

> > RAM lost at all times, or just when the Virtual PC is up and running?

> >

> > 2. thanks

> >

> > 3. Since I have never partitioned a hard drive before, these alternatives

> > are Greek to me. Guessing based on your answer I would select "Format the

> > partition using the NTFS file system (Quick)" and then specify a size, say

> > 50GB, as the answer to the next question. Am I on the right track?

> >

> > 4-7 Thanks.

> > --

> > Regards,

> >

> > Piccolo

> >

> >

> > "Jeff Gaines" wrote:

> >

> >> On 09/07/2008 in message

> >> <AC8C4A10-14E9-4FDD-9E2A-BF1DF156F704@microsoft.com> piccolo wrote:

> >>

> >> >Thanks for your responses. So, arguably, Virtual PC is not a free

> >> >program

> >> >but an excuse to sell another OS license? What did I expect?

> >>

> >> Virtual PC is free. There are free OSs you can install (Linux being an

> >> obvious example) and many people will have unencumbered licences, for

> >> example a retail version of Windows where the original PC has been

> >> scrapped.

> >>

> >> >1. NVWM memory: how much RAM should I specify is available to WinXP32?

> >> >3GB?

> >> >(I have 8). I presume this memory is not subtracted from real memory but

> >> >is

> >> >just a limitaton on the VPC.

> >>

> >> Memory used by the VPC is subtracted from the host PC's memory, it has to

> >> come from somewhere.

> >>

> >> >2. I am going to want to enable at least one USB port on the virtual

> >> >machine

> >> >so I can use my existing HP printer/scanner/fax. This article seems to

> >> >talk

> >> >only of the physical parallel and serial ports. Are USB ports not

> >> >functional?

> >> >And/or am I better off finding a parallel printer cable and hooking the

> >> >HP

> >> >up

> >> >that way?

> >>

> >> USB ports are not available to a Virtual PC, I don't know about legacy

> >> ports but somebody will.

> >>

> >> >3. Partitioning: And I quote:

> >> [snipped]

> >> >What do I do? (Thanks) FWIW, I have three separate external hard drives

> >> >(mostly used for backup) I could use if that made life easier.

> >>

> >> Just partition as if you were using a physical machine. Bear in mind you

> >> are actually partitioning a file, not a physical hard drive.

> >>

> >> >4. If I do not plan to use the Windows 32-bit OS to go on the Internet,

> >> >am

> >> >I

> >> >correct that I need not enable Internet connectivity on the VPC?

> >>

> >> If you enable networking on a VPC it is able to connect to the Internet

> >> in

> >> the same way as any physical machine on the same network.

> >>

> >> >5. As a related question, am I correct in assuming that there would then

> >> >be

> >> >no need to worry about firewalls, anti-virus, automatic updates, etc.,

> >> >etc.?

> >> >In fact, is there any reason to worry about upgrading whatever specific

> >> >version of Windows XP 32 I buy to include the various service packs?

> >>

> >> See Internet access in (4) above.

> >>

> >> >6. The above questions assume that a virtual machine is a DIFFERENT

> >> >machine

> >> >for internet purposes than the host machine and that all of the

> >> >firewalls,

> >> >etc. on the host machine would not protect the virtual machine. Is this

> >> >correct?

> >>

> >> Yes.

> >>

> >> >7. Once I have the OS up and running, do I then have to install all the

> >> >programs I want to run on it? Or can the VPC actually launch programs

> >> >that

> >> >sit on the hard drive of the host machine?

> >>

> >> You need to treat it like a new physical machine, any apps you want to

> >> use

> >> need installing, and are subject to the same licence conditions as if you

> >> were installing on a physical machine.

> >>

> >> --

> >> Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK

> >> If it's not broken, mess around with it until it is

> >>

>

[Guest Jeff Gaines]

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

On 09/07/2008 in message

<B229F1D1-092C-439F-8647-A625F76069F7@microsoft.com> piccolo wrote:

>Thanks for the education. I am a whole different level of sophistication; I

>can barely get my wireless LAN to work so the concept of multiple virtual

>machines doing different things, while not conceptually beyond my grasp,

>represents a level of detailed knowledge that I don't have.

 

If you don't wet yourself after typing "Format c:" in a virtual machine

you're not human :-)

 

--

Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK

There are 3 types of people in this world. Those who can count, and those

who can't.

[Guest Charlie Russel - MVP]

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

No, when you create the VPC, it creates the blank HD. No partition, no

format, no OS. You then follow standard installation techniques to install

an OS, booting from the CD (which is either passed through to the physical

CD drive, or by pointing to an ISO image of the CD stored on the host's hard

disk), and following the normal install steps. Which will include

automatically creating a partition and formatting your HD.

 

Won't see you on the VirtualPC NG - I do spend some time on the VirtualPC

NG, since that's where the Hyper-V questions come in, but not on the Virtual

PC group. But there are good folks there to help. Might even include Colin,

though I'm not sure if he still monitors that group or not.

 

--

Charlie.

http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

 

 

"piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:883605CB-B79D-4D06-B8CE-1B14760915F2@microsoft.com...

>I don't think the programs that I am likely to run on the virtual machine

> will require more than 512Mb but I might stick 1024Mb in as the limit

> since I

> don't think I will actually leave the virtual machine running at all

> times.

>

> What I miss about my printer is the scanner so I will get a parallel cable

> and do it the old-fashioned way.

>

> Are you telling me that, as part of the creation of the VPC, I

> automatically

> create a hard drive and therefore I do not need to partition anything but

> can

> skip that part of the process?

>

> I think I now know enough to take the plunge and do it. Thanks again. I'll

> go bug the other newsgroup if I have problems.

> --

> Regards,

>

> Piccolo

>

>

> "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:

>

>> We're getting pretty far off the topic for this newsgroup here (there is

>> a

>> microsoft.public.virtualpc NG), but:

>>

>> 512 Mb would be more than enough for most XP 32-bit machines, depending

>> on

>> what you're doing. Remember, there's no magic here. Give the VM the exact

>> same RAM you'd give a physical machine doing that same level of work. The

>> RAM is only used by the VM when it's running, IF you shut it down when

>> you're not using it. If you "save state" it will still hold on to its

>> RAM.

>>

>> On the question of connecting to your printer - actually the best

>> solution

>> here is to connect via ethernet. A cheap wired or wireless Print Server

>> is

>> the best solution to providing full connectivity to your printer from any

>> machine on your network. And it's platform independant - If you change

>> OS's

>> you don't care, it's still reachable. For "all in one" things, however,

>> you're likely to have problems with the non-printing functions, since

>> network scanning is less well handled.

>>

>> If you really need USB and nothing else will solve it, VMWare Workstation

>> is

>> a better solution than VirtualPC. It supports USB connectivity. It's not

>> free (though they do have a free product, VMWare Server, but I don't

>> think

>> it's as good a fit for you from a usability standpoint.)

>>

>> When you create the Virtual Machine, you create a hard disk. If you want

>> a

>> second partition, create a second hard disk. Don't partition the first.

>> That

>> virtual hard disk is a .VHD file on the host's file system.

>>

>> --

>> Charlie.

>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

>>

>> "piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:0F789C02-97E1-4448-B7DD-815CF5EC5F80@microsoft.com...

>> > Jeff,

>> >

>> > Refining a bit:

>> >

>> > I take the point about OSs made by all. Never having thought about

>> > virtual

>> > machines before, the Virtual PC struck me as a way to market Vista

>> > rather

>> > than something in its own right.

>> >

>> > 1. Would 1.024gb of RAM be enough to run WinXP 32 reasonably? And is

>> > this

>> > RAM lost at all times, or just when the Virtual PC is up and running?

>> >

>> > 2. thanks

>> >

>> > 3. Since I have never partitioned a hard drive before, these

>> > alternatives

>> > are Greek to me. Guessing based on your answer I would select "Format

>> > the

>> > partition using the NTFS file system (Quick)" and then specify a size,

>> > say

>> > 50GB, as the answer to the next question. Am I on the right track?

>> >

>> > 4-7 Thanks.

>> > --

>> > Regards,

>> >

>> > Piccolo

>> >

>> >

>> > "Jeff Gaines" wrote:

>> >

>> >> On 09/07/2008 in message

>> >> <AC8C4A10-14E9-4FDD-9E2A-BF1DF156F704@microsoft.com> piccolo wrote:

>> >>

>> >> >Thanks for your responses. So, arguably, Virtual PC is not a free

>> >> >program

>> >> >but an excuse to sell another OS license? What did I expect?

>> >>

>> >> Virtual PC is free. There are free OSs you can install (Linux being an

>> >> obvious example) and many people will have unencumbered licences, for

>> >> example a retail version of Windows where the original PC has been

>> >> scrapped.

>> >>

>> >> >1. NVWM memory: how much RAM should I specify is available to

>> >> >WinXP32?

>> >> >3GB?

>> >> >(I have 8). I presume this memory is not subtracted from real memory

>> >> >but

>> >> >is

>> >> >just a limitaton on the VPC.

>> >>

>> >> Memory used by the VPC is subtracted from the host PC's memory, it has

>> >> to

>> >> come from somewhere.

>> >>

>> >> >2. I am going to want to enable at least one USB port on the virtual

>> >> >machine

>> >> >so I can use my existing HP printer/scanner/fax. This article seems

>> >> >to

>> >> >talk

>> >> >only of the physical parallel and serial ports. Are USB ports not

>> >> >functional?

>> >> >And/or am I better off finding a parallel printer cable and hooking

>> >> >the

>> >> >HP

>> >> >up

>> >> >that way?

>> >>

>> >> USB ports are not available to a Virtual PC, I don't know about legacy

>> >> ports but somebody will.

>> >>

>> >> >3. Partitioning: And I quote:

>> >> [snipped]

>> >> >What do I do? (Thanks) FWIW, I have three separate external hard

>> >> >drives

>> >> >(mostly used for backup) I could use if that made life easier.

>> >>

>> >> Just partition as if you were using a physical machine. Bear in mind

>> >> you

>> >> are actually partitioning a file, not a physical hard drive.

>> >>

>> >> >4. If I do not plan to use the Windows 32-bit OS to go on the

>> >> >Internet,

>> >> >am

>> >> >I

>> >> >correct that I need not enable Internet connectivity on the VPC?

>> >>

>> >> If you enable networking on a VPC it is able to connect to the

>> >> Internet

>> >> in

>> >> the same way as any physical machine on the same network.

>> >>

>> >> >5. As a related question, am I correct in assuming that there would

>> >> >then

>> >> >be

>> >> >no need to worry about firewalls, anti-virus, automatic updates,

>> >> >etc.,

>> >> >etc.?

>> >> >In fact, is there any reason to worry about upgrading whatever

>> >> >specific

>> >> >version of Windows XP 32 I buy to include the various service packs?

>> >>

>> >> See Internet access in (4) above.

>> >>

>> >> >6. The above questions assume that a virtual machine is a DIFFERENT

>> >> >machine

>> >> >for internet purposes than the host machine and that all of the

>> >> >firewalls,

>> >> >etc. on the host machine would not protect the virtual machine. Is

>> >> >this

>> >> >correct?

>> >>

>> >> Yes.

>> >>

>> >> >7. Once I have the OS up and running, do I then have to install all

>> >> >the

>> >> >programs I want to run on it? Or can the VPC actually launch programs

>> >> >that

>> >> >sit on the hard drive of the host machine?

>> >>

>> >> You need to treat it like a new physical machine, any apps you want to

>> >> use

>> >> need installing, and are subject to the same licence conditions as if

>> >> you

>> >> were installing on a physical machine.

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >> Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK

>> >> If it's not broken, mess around with it until it is

>> >>

>>

[Guest Charlie Russel - MVP]

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

<grin>

 

--

Charlie.

http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

 

 

"Jeff Gaines" <whitedragon@newsgroups.nospam> wrote in message

news:xn0fshclh2yovht000@msnews.microsoft.com...

> On 09/07/2008 in message

> <B229F1D1-092C-439F-8647-A625F76069F7@microsoft.com> piccolo wrote:

>

>>Thanks for the education. I am a whole different level of sophistication;

>>I

>>can barely get my wireless LAN to work so the concept of multiple virtual

>>machines doing different things, while not conceptually beyond my grasp,

>>represents a level of detailed knowledge that I don't have.

>

> If you don't wet yourself after typing "Format c:" in a virtual machine

> you're not human :-)

>

> --

> Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK

> There are 3 types of people in this world. Those who can count, and those

> who can't.

[Guest Colin Barnhorst]

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

"Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message

news:BE15BBD6-CE6E-46EB-9EF9-F80AAE49990A@microsoft.com...

Might even include Colin,

> though I'm not sure if he still monitors that group or not.

>

>

 

I do.

[Guest Colin Barnhorst]

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

"piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:883605CB-B79D-4D06-B8CE-1B14760915F2@microsoft.com...

>I don't think the programs that I am likely to run on the virtual machine

> will require more than 512Mb but I might stick 1024Mb in as the limit

> since I

> don't think I will actually leave the virtual machine running at all

> times.

>

> What I miss about my printer is the scanner so I will get a parallel cable

> and do it the old-fashioned way.

>

> Are you telling me that, as part of the creation of the VPC, I

> automatically

> create a hard drive and therefore I do not need to partition anything but

> can

> skip that part of the process?

>

> I think I now know enough to take the plunge and do it. Thanks again. I'll

> go bug the other newsgroup if I have problems.

> --

> Regards,

>

>>

 

Why give the emulated memory controller more to do than needed? Start with

256mb and only increase for the same reason you would have added ram to an

old box running XP. (btw, changes in memory allocation have to be done with

the vm shut down.)

 

If you buy a new hard drive don't you have to create a partition and format?

You are asked how you want to do that during the text phase of XP Setup.

Think of a virtual hard drive like you do a physical one. The New Virtual

Machine wizard will ask you if you want to create a virtual hard drive and

give you the opportunity to specify where to locate it on the host file

system. It will also give you a chance to set the capacity of the drive if

you want other than the default (unless you are doing a fixed-sized disk

just use the default 127GB).

[Guest Colin Barnhorst]

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

"piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:A33F383E-E410-4676-B59E-5E1F4627911C@microsoft.com...

> Colin,

>

> Mostly out of curiosity, why are two partitions on the same hard drive

> considered different machines? or two hard drives within the same PC? Does

> that mean that, in the future when there are multiple CPUs and drives in a

> machine, there will have to be multiple licenses? The lawyer in me boggles

> at

> some of the drafting complexities.

>

> Anyway thanks for your help.

> --

> Regards,

>

> Piccolo

>>

 

The license never refers to "machines." The license uses the term "device."

The license defines any blade or partition as a separate device. The

license requires the installer of the software to assign the license to a

device and specifies that licensing model is "one copy one device." A

consumer_oem eula stipulates that the license is permanently assigned to the

device on which the user received the installed software and the user may

not move the license to another device. It follows from the definitions

that two partitions, whether on the same disk or two different disks are

separate devices.

[Guest Charlie Russel - MVP]

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

See, good guess. ;)

 

BTW, chat happening now...

 

--

Charlie.

http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

 

 

"Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:7972A36F-26B2-4D18-8039-137DE66C2831@microsoft.com...

> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message

> news:BE15BBD6-CE6E-46EB-9EF9-F80AAE49990A@microsoft.com...

> Might even include Colin,

>> though I'm not sure if he still monitors that group or not.

>>

>>

>

> I do.

[Guest Colin Barnhorst]

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

"Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message

news:7FCE65AC-C60C-47C9-9FD2-E07DB55B02C3@microsoft.com...

> See, good guess. ;)

>

> BTW, chat happening now...

>

> --

> Charlie.

> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

>

>

> "Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message

> news:7972A36F-26B2-4D18-8039-137DE66C2831@microsoft.com...

>> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message

>> news:BE15BBD6-CE6E-46EB-9EF9-F80AAE49990A@microsoft.com...

>> Might even include Colin,

>>> though I'm not sure if he still monitors that group or not.

>>>

>>>

>>

>> I do.

>

 

Oops! Oh well. I need to hook up with Ben and get on schedule. Thanks.

[Guest piccolo]

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

"normal install steps. Which will include

automatically creating a partition and formatting your HD."

 

It's these "normal install steps" that scare the hell out of me since I

didn't know the difference between FAT and NTFS until a minute ago when I

found an article you wrote in 2001 on the difference between the systems. But

I am getting there. ;-)

 

--

Regards,

 

Piccolo

 

 

"Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:

> No, when you create the VPC, it creates the blank HD. No partition, no

> format, no OS. You then follow standard installation techniques to install

> an OS, booting from the CD (which is either passed through to the physical

> CD drive, or by pointing to an ISO image of the CD stored on the host's hard

> disk), and following the normal install steps. Which will include

> automatically creating a partition and formatting your HD.

>

> Won't see you on the VirtualPC NG - I do spend some time on the VirtualPC

> NG, since that's where the Hyper-V questions come in, but not on the Virtual

> PC group. But there are good folks there to help. Might even include Colin,

> though I'm not sure if he still monitors that group or not.

>

> --

> Charlie.

> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

>

>

> "piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:883605CB-B79D-4D06-B8CE-1B14760915F2@microsoft.com...

> >I don't think the programs that I am likely to run on the virtual machine

> > will require more than 512Mb but I might stick 1024Mb in as the limit

> > since I

> > don't think I will actually leave the virtual machine running at all

> > times.

> >

> > What I miss about my printer is the scanner so I will get a parallel cable

> > and do it the old-fashioned way.

> >

> > Are you telling me that, as part of the creation of the VPC, I

> > automatically

> > create a hard drive and therefore I do not need to partition anything but

> > can

> > skip that part of the process?

> >

> > I think I now know enough to take the plunge and do it. Thanks again. I'll

> > go bug the other newsgroup if I have problems.

> > --

> > Regards,

> >

> > Piccolo

> >

> >

> > "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:

> >

> >> We're getting pretty far off the topic for this newsgroup here (there is

> >> a

> >> microsoft.public.virtualpc NG), but:

> >>

> >> 512 Mb would be more than enough for most XP 32-bit machines, depending

> >> on

> >> what you're doing. Remember, there's no magic here. Give the VM the exact

> >> same RAM you'd give a physical machine doing that same level of work. The

> >> RAM is only used by the VM when it's running, IF you shut it down when

> >> you're not using it. If you "save state" it will still hold on to its

> >> RAM.

> >>

> >> On the question of connecting to your printer - actually the best

> >> solution

> >> here is to connect via ethernet. A cheap wired or wireless Print Server

> >> is

> >> the best solution to providing full connectivity to your printer from any

> >> machine on your network. And it's platform independant - If you change

> >> OS's

> >> you don't care, it's still reachable. For "all in one" things, however,

> >> you're likely to have problems with the non-printing functions, since

> >> network scanning is less well handled.

> >>

> >> If you really need USB and nothing else will solve it, VMWare Workstation

> >> is

> >> a better solution than VirtualPC. It supports USB connectivity. It's not

> >> free (though they do have a free product, VMWare Server, but I don't

> >> think

> >> it's as good a fit for you from a usability standpoint.)

> >>

> >> When you create the Virtual Machine, you create a hard disk. If you want

> >> a

> >> second partition, create a second hard disk. Don't partition the first.

> >> That

> >> virtual hard disk is a .VHD file on the host's file system.

> >>

> >> --

> >> Charlie.

> >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

> >> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

> >>

> >> "piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> >> news:0F789C02-97E1-4448-B7DD-815CF5EC5F80@microsoft.com...

> >> > Jeff,

> >> >

> >> > Refining a bit:

> >> >

> >> > I take the point about OSs made by all. Never having thought about

> >> > virtual

> >> > machines before, the Virtual PC struck me as a way to market Vista

> >> > rather

> >> > than something in its own right.

> >> >

> >> > 1. Would 1.024gb of RAM be enough to run WinXP 32 reasonably? And is

> >> > this

> >> > RAM lost at all times, or just when the Virtual PC is up and running?

> >> >

> >> > 2. thanks

> >> >

> >> > 3. Since I have never partitioned a hard drive before, these

> >> > alternatives

> >> > are Greek to me. Guessing based on your answer I would select "Format

> >> > the

> >> > partition using the NTFS file system (Quick)" and then specify a size,

> >> > say

> >> > 50GB, as the answer to the next question. Am I on the right track?

> >> >

> >> > 4-7 Thanks.

> >> > --

> >> > Regards,

> >> >

> >> > Piccolo

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > "Jeff Gaines" wrote:

> >> >

> >> >> On 09/07/2008 in message

> >> >> <AC8C4A10-14E9-4FDD-9E2A-BF1DF156F704@microsoft.com> piccolo wrote:

> >> >>

> >> >> >Thanks for your responses. So, arguably, Virtual PC is not a free

> >> >> >program

> >> >> >but an excuse to sell another OS license? What did I expect?

> >> >>

> >> >> Virtual PC is free. There are free OSs you can install (Linux being an

> >> >> obvious example) and many people will have unencumbered licences, for

> >> >> example a retail version of Windows where the original PC has been

> >> >> scrapped.

> >> >>

> >> >> >1. NVWM memory: how much RAM should I specify is available to

> >> >> >WinXP32?

> >> >> >3GB?

> >> >> >(I have 8). I presume this memory is not subtracted from real memory

> >> >> >but

> >> >> >is

> >> >> >just a limitaton on the VPC.

> >> >>

> >> >> Memory used by the VPC is subtracted from the host PC's memory, it has

> >> >> to

> >> >> come from somewhere.

> >> >>

> >> >> >2. I am going to want to enable at least one USB port on the virtual

> >> >> >machine

> >> >> >so I can use my existing HP printer/scanner/fax. This article seems

> >> >> >to

> >> >> >talk

> >> >> >only of the physical parallel and serial ports. Are USB ports not

> >> >> >functional?

> >> >> >And/or am I better off finding a parallel printer cable and hooking

> >> >> >the

> >> >> >HP

> >> >> >up

> >> >> >that way?

> >> >>

> >> >> USB ports are not available to a Virtual PC, I don't know about legacy

> >> >> ports but somebody will.

> >> >>

> >> >> >3. Partitioning: And I quote:

> >> >> [snipped]

> >> >> >What do I do? (Thanks) FWIW, I have three separate external hard

> >> >> >drives

> >> >> >(mostly used for backup) I could use if that made life easier.

> >> >>

> >> >> Just partition as if you were using a physical machine. Bear in mind

> >> >> you

> >> >> are actually partitioning a file, not a physical hard drive.

> >> >>

> >> >> >4. If I do not plan to use the Windows 32-bit OS to go on the

> >> >> >Internet,

> >> >> >am

> >> >> >I

> >> >> >correct that I need not enable Internet connectivity on the VPC?

> >> >>

> >> >> If you enable networking on a VPC it is able to connect to the

> >> >> Internet

> >> >> in

> >> >> the same way as any physical machine on the same network.

> >> >>

> >> >> >5. As a related question, am I correct in assuming that there would

> >> >> >then

> >> >> >be

> >> >> >no need to worry about firewalls, anti-virus, automatic updates,

> >> >> >etc.,

> >> >> >etc.?

> >> >> >In fact, is there any reason to worry about upgrading whatever

> >> >> >specific

> >> >> >version of Windows XP 32 I buy to include the various service packs?

> >> >>

> >> >> See Internet access in (4) above.

> >> >>

> >> >> >6. The above questions assume that a virtual machine is a DIFFERENT

> >> >> >machine

> >> >> >for internet purposes than the host machine and that all of the

> >> >> >firewalls,

> >> >> >etc. on the host machine would not protect the virtual machine. Is

> >> >> >this

> >> >> >correct?

> >> >>

> >> >> Yes.

> >> >>

> >> >> >7. Once I have the OS up and running, do I then have to install all

> >> >> >the

> >> >> >programs I want to run on it? Or can the VPC actually launch programs

> >> >> >that

> >> >> >sit on the hard drive of the host machine?

> >> >>

> >> >> You need to treat it like a new physical machine, any apps you want to

> >> >> use

> >> >> need installing, and are subject to the same licence conditions as if

> >> >> you

> >> >> were installing on a physical machine.

> >> >>

> >> >> --

> >> >> Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK

> >> >> If it's not broken, mess around with it until it is

> >> >>

> >>

>

[Guest Charlie Russel - MVP]

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Re: Virtual Machine to run 32-bit software?

 

Ah, my past comes back to haunt me yet again...

 

--

Charlie.

http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

 

 

"piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:625C0EE9-978F-4077-925F-3DFC7015E55B@microsoft.com...

> "normal install steps. Which will include

> automatically creating a partition and formatting your HD."

>

> It's these "normal install steps" that scare the hell out of me since I

> didn't know the difference between FAT and NTFS until a minute ago when I

> found an article you wrote in 2001 on the difference between the systems.

> But

> I am getting there. ;-)

>

> --

> Regards,

>

> Piccolo

>

>

> "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:

>

>> No, when you create the VPC, it creates the blank HD. No partition, no

>> format, no OS. You then follow standard installation techniques to

>> install

>> an OS, booting from the CD (which is either passed through to the

>> physical

>> CD drive, or by pointing to an ISO image of the CD stored on the host's

>> hard

>> disk), and following the normal install steps. Which will include

>> automatically creating a partition and formatting your HD.

>>

>> Won't see you on the VirtualPC NG - I do spend some time on the VirtualPC

>> NG, since that's where the Hyper-V questions come in, but not on the

>> Virtual

>> PC group. But there are good folks there to help. Might even include

>> Colin,

>> though I'm not sure if he still monitors that group or not.

>>

>> --

>> Charlie.

>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

>>

>>

>> "piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> news:883605CB-B79D-4D06-B8CE-1B14760915F2@microsoft.com...

>> >I don't think the programs that I am likely to run on the virtual

>> >machine

>> > will require more than 512Mb but I might stick 1024Mb in as the limit

>> > since I

>> > don't think I will actually leave the virtual machine running at all

>> > times.

>> >

>> > What I miss about my printer is the scanner so I will get a parallel

>> > cable

>> > and do it the old-fashioned way.

>> >

>> > Are you telling me that, as part of the creation of the VPC, I

>> > automatically

>> > create a hard drive and therefore I do not need to partition anything

>> > but

>> > can

>> > skip that part of the process?

>> >

>> > I think I now know enough to take the plunge and do it. Thanks again.

>> > I'll

>> > go bug the other newsgroup if I have problems.

>> > --

>> > Regards,

>> >

>> > Piccolo

>> >

>> >

>> > "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:

>> >

>> >> We're getting pretty far off the topic for this newsgroup here (there

>> >> is

>> >> a

>> >> microsoft.public.virtualpc NG), but:

>> >>

>> >> 512 Mb would be more than enough for most XP 32-bit machines,

>> >> depending

>> >> on

>> >> what you're doing. Remember, there's no magic here. Give the VM the

>> >> exact

>> >> same RAM you'd give a physical machine doing that same level of work.

>> >> The

>> >> RAM is only used by the VM when it's running, IF you shut it down when

>> >> you're not using it. If you "save state" it will still hold on to its

>> >> RAM.

>> >>

>> >> On the question of connecting to your printer - actually the best

>> >> solution

>> >> here is to connect via ethernet. A cheap wired or wireless Print

>> >> Server

>> >> is

>> >> the best solution to providing full connectivity to your printer from

>> >> any

>> >> machine on your network. And it's platform independant - If you change

>> >> OS's

>> >> you don't care, it's still reachable. For "all in one" things,

>> >> however,

>> >> you're likely to have problems with the non-printing functions, since

>> >> network scanning is less well handled.

>> >>

>> >> If you really need USB and nothing else will solve it, VMWare

>> >> Workstation

>> >> is

>> >> a better solution than VirtualPC. It supports USB connectivity. It's

>> >> not

>> >> free (though they do have a free product, VMWare Server, but I don't

>> >> think

>> >> it's as good a fit for you from a usability standpoint.)

>> >>

>> >> When you create the Virtual Machine, you create a hard disk. If you

>> >> want

>> >> a

>> >> second partition, create a second hard disk. Don't partition the

>> >> first.

>> >> That

>> >> virtual hard disk is a .VHD file on the host's file system.

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >> Charlie.

>> >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64

>> >> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

>> >>

>> >> "piccolo" <piccolo@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> >> news:0F789C02-97E1-4448-B7DD-815CF5EC5F80@microsoft.com...

>> >> > Jeff,

>> >> >

>> >> > Refining a bit:

>> >> >

>> >> > I take the point about OSs made by all. Never having thought about

>> >> > virtual

>> >> > machines before, the Virtual PC struck me as a way to market Vista

>> >> > rather

>> >> > than something in its own right.

>> >> >

>> >> > 1. Would 1.024gb of RAM be enough to run WinXP 32 reasonably? And is

>> >> > this

>> >> > RAM lost at all times, or just when the Virtual PC is up and

>> >> > running?

>> >> >

>> >> > 2. thanks

>> >> >

>> >> > 3. Since I have never partitioned a hard drive before, these

>> >> > alternatives

>> >> > are Greek to me. Guessing based on your answer I would select

>> >> > "Format

>> >> > the

>> >> > partition using the NTFS file system (Quick)" and then specify a

>> >> > size,

>> >> > say

>> >> > 50GB, as the answer to the next question. Am I on the right track?

>> >> >

>> >> > 4-7 Thanks.

>> >> > --

>> >> > Regards,

>> >> >

>> >> > Piccolo

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> > "Jeff Gaines" wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> >> On 09/07/2008 in message

>> >> >> <AC8C4A10-14E9-4FDD-9E2A-BF1DF156F704@microsoft.com> piccolo wrote:

>> >> >>

>> >> >> >Thanks for your responses. So, arguably, Virtual PC is not a free

>> >> >> >program

>> >> >> >but an excuse to sell another OS license? What did I expect?

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Virtual PC is free. There are free OSs you can install (Linux being

>> >> >> an

>> >> >> obvious example) and many people will have unencumbered licences,

>> >> >> for

>> >> >> example a retail version of Windows where the original PC has been

>> >> >> scrapped.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> >1. NVWM memory: how much RAM should I specify is available to

>> >> >> >WinXP32?

>> >> >> >3GB?

>> >> >> >(I have 8). I presume this memory is not subtracted from real

>> >> >> >memory

>> >> >> >but

>> >> >> >is

>> >> >> >just a limitaton on the VPC.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Memory used by the VPC is subtracted from the host PC's memory, it

>> >> >> has

>> >> >> to

>> >> >> come from somewhere.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> >2. I am going to want to enable at least one USB port on the

>> >> >> >virtual

>> >> >> >machine

>> >> >> >so I can use my existing HP printer/scanner/fax. This article

>> >> >> >seems

>> >> >> >to

>> >> >> >talk

>> >> >> >only of the physical parallel and serial ports. Are USB ports not

>> >> >> >functional?

>> >> >> >And/or am I better off finding a parallel printer cable and

>> >> >> >hooking

>> >> >> >the

>> >> >> >HP

>> >> >> >up

>> >> >> >that way?

>> >> >>

>> >> >> USB ports are not available to a Virtual PC, I don't know about

>> >> >> legacy

>> >> >> ports but somebody will.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> >3. Partitioning: And I quote:

>> >> >> [snipped]

>> >> >> >What do I do? (Thanks) FWIW, I have three separate external hard

>> >> >> >drives

>> >> >> >(mostly used for backup) I could use if that made life easier.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Just partition as if you were using a physical machine. Bear in

>> >> >> mind

>> >> >> you

>> >> >> are actually partitioning a file, not a physical hard drive.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> >4. If I do not plan to use the Windows 32-bit OS to go on the

>> >> >> >Internet,

>> >> >> >am

>> >> >> >I

>> >> >> >correct that I need not enable Internet connectivity on the VPC?

>> >> >>

>> >> >> If you enable networking on a VPC it is able to connect to the

>> >> >> Internet

>> >> >> in

>> >> >> the same way as any physical machine on the same network.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> >5. As a related question, am I correct in assuming that there

>> >> >> >would

>> >> >> >then

>> >> >> >be

>> >> >> >no need to worry about firewalls, anti-virus, automatic updates,

>> >> >> >etc.,

>> >> >> >etc.?

>> >> >> >In fact, is there any reason to worry about upgrading whatever

>> >> >> >specific

>> >> >> >version of Windows XP 32 I buy to include the various service

>> >> >> >packs?

>> >> >>

>> >> >> See Internet access in (4) above.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> >6. The above questions assume that a virtual machine is a

>> >> >> >DIFFERENT

>> >> >> >machine

>> >> >> >for internet purposes than the host machine and that all of the

>> >> >> >firewalls,

>> >> >> >etc. on the host machine would not protect the virtual machine. Is

>> >> >> >this

>> >> >> >correct?

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Yes.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> >7. Once I have the OS up and running, do I then have to install

>> >> >> >all

>> >> >> >the

>> >> >> >programs I want to run on it? Or can the VPC actually launch

>> >> >> >programs

>> >> >> >that

>> >> >> >sit on the hard drive of the host machine?

>> >> >>

>> >> >> You need to treat it like a new physical machine, any apps you want

>> >> >> to

>> >> >> use

>> >> >> need installing, and are subject to the same licence conditions as

>> >> >> if

>> >> >> you

>> >> >> were installing on a physical machine.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> --

>> >> >> Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK

>> >> >> If it's not broken, mess around with it until it is

>> >> >>

>> >>

>>