Guest mickey Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 I'm running windows 2000 professional. Sometime ago I noticed that the notebook refused to suspend. Further investigation revealed that the "Hibernate" tab under the control-panel power-option disapeared. I tried updating the OS with the original CD, but that didn't work. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can regain the "Hibernate" tab, without re-installing the OS?
Guest John John (MVP) Posted July 9, 2008 Posted July 9, 2008 Re: Lost Hibernate Tab Try here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266169 John mickey wrote: > I'm running windows 2000 professional. > > Sometime ago I noticed that the notebook refused to suspend. Further > investigation revealed that the "Hibernate" tab under the control-panel > power-option disapeared. > > I tried updating the OS with the original CD, but that didn't work. > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can regain the "Hibernate" tab, > without re-installing the OS? > >
Guest mickey Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 Re: Lost Hibernate Tab Thanks John, but the various links didn't seem to help. I should clarify, now that I know there are actually two issues here. My PC used to have two mode of power-down; Standby and Hibernate. Both are non-functional now. What I really want to recover is the "Standby" function. Apparently the "Hibernate" function was a OEM installation - although the OEM no longer makes PC's they still had the setup program for the "Hibernate" mode. The setup is supposed to add a partition to the disk, but is must run under MSDOS because it needs to access the HD directly - and Win 2000 will prevent it. The OEM instructions for using the setup program said to start windows up in MSDOS mode, well Win 2000 doesn't have an MSDOS mode startup [the instruction also applied to Win 98 which did]. I found other instructions which said to use a recovery disk, but there was still no way to generate a purely MSDOS disk. I tried one for another PC and got MSDOS up, but when I run the setup program it says there is insufficient space for the minimum space (400M). Actually there is enough space, but its all part of the existing partition. Either this program requires a partition to be pre-established, or its just not working. Anyway it's possible that the lost of the Hibernate partition killed the Standby mode, although I thought they were separate functions. I was able to run the APMSTAT program mentioned in your link reference, but all the program said "This is an ACPI machine, APM is NOT relevent on this machine". It seemed the references in your link suggest that ACPI and APM can co-exist. As I said I'm actually not really concerned about the "Hibernate" [save-to-disk] function, but I would like to recover the Standby mode, and none of the referneces on the knowledge center seem to apply or help. Do you have any other suggestions? M. "John John (MVP)" wrote: > Try here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266169 > > John > > mickey wrote: > > > I'm running windows 2000 professional. > > > > Sometime ago I noticed that the notebook refused to suspend. Further > > investigation revealed that the "Hibernate" tab under the control-panel > > power-option disapeared. > > > > I tried updating the OS with the original CD, but that didn't work. > > > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can regain the "Hibernate" tab, > > without re-installing the OS? > > > > >
Guest John John (MVP) Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Re: Lost Hibernate Tab A hunch here, try reinstalling the video drivers. John mickey wrote: > Thanks John, but the various links didn't seem to help. > > I should clarify, now that I know there are actually two issues here. > > My PC used to have two mode of power-down; Standby and Hibernate. > Both are non-functional now. > > What I really want to recover is the "Standby" function. Apparently the > "Hibernate" function was a OEM installation - although the OEM no longer > makes PC's they still had the setup program for the "Hibernate" mode. The > setup is supposed to add a partition to the disk, but is must run under MSDOS > because it needs to access the HD directly - and Win 2000 will prevent it. > The OEM instructions for using the setup program said to start windows up in > MSDOS mode, well Win 2000 doesn't have an MSDOS mode startup [the instruction > also applied to Win 98 which did]. I found other instructions which said to > use a recovery disk, but there was still no way to generate a purely MSDOS > disk. I tried one for another PC and got MSDOS up, but when I run the setup > program it says there is insufficient space for the minimum space (400M). > Actually there is enough space, but its all part of the existing partition. > Either this program requires a partition to be pre-established, or its just > not working. > > Anyway it's possible that the lost of the Hibernate partition killed the > Standby mode, although I thought they were separate functions. > > I was able to run the APMSTAT program mentioned in your link reference, but > all the program said "This is an ACPI machine, APM is NOT relevent on this > machine". > > It seemed the references in your link suggest that ACPI and APM can co-exist. > > As I said I'm actually not really concerned about the "Hibernate" > [save-to-disk] function, but I would like to recover the Standby mode, and > none of the referneces on the knowledge center seem to apply or help. Do you > have any other suggestions? > > M. > > "John John (MVP)" wrote: > > >>Try here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266169 >> >>John >> >>mickey wrote: >> >> >>>I'm running windows 2000 professional. >>> >>>Sometime ago I noticed that the notebook refused to suspend. Further >>>investigation revealed that the "Hibernate" tab under the control-panel >>>power-option disapeared. >>> >>>I tried updating the OS with the original CD, but that didn't work. >>> >>>Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can regain the "Hibernate" tab, >>>without re-installing the OS? >>> >>> >>
Guest mickey Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Re: Lost Hibernate Tab I do remember reading abouta link between the video drivers and the Standby mode. How do I go about identifying them and then re-installing? "John John (MVP)" wrote: > A hunch here, try reinstalling the video drivers. > > John > > mickey wrote: > > > Thanks John, but the various links didn't seem to help. > > > > I should clarify, now that I know there are actually two issues here. > > > > My PC used to have two mode of power-down; Standby and Hibernate. > > Both are non-functional now. > > > > What I really want to recover is the "Standby" function. Apparently the > > "Hibernate" function was a OEM installation - although the OEM no longer > > makes PC's they still had the setup program for the "Hibernate" mode. The > > setup is supposed to add a partition to the disk, but is must run under MSDOS > > because it needs to access the HD directly - and Win 2000 will prevent it. > > The OEM instructions for using the setup program said to start windows up in > > MSDOS mode, well Win 2000 doesn't have an MSDOS mode startup [the instruction > > also applied to Win 98 which did]. I found other instructions which said to > > use a recovery disk, but there was still no way to generate a purely MSDOS > > disk. I tried one for another PC and got MSDOS up, but when I run the setup > > program it says there is insufficient space for the minimum space (400M). > > Actually there is enough space, but its all part of the existing partition. > > Either this program requires a partition to be pre-established, or its just > > not working. > > > > Anyway it's possible that the lost of the Hibernate partition killed the > > Standby mode, although I thought they were separate functions. > > > > I was able to run the APMSTAT program mentioned in your link reference, but > > all the program said "This is an ACPI machine, APM is NOT relevent on this > > machine". > > > > It seemed the references in your link suggest that ACPI and APM can co-exist. > > > > As I said I'm actually not really concerned about the "Hibernate" > > [save-to-disk] function, but I would like to recover the Standby mode, and > > none of the referneces on the knowledge center seem to apply or help. Do you > > have any other suggestions? > > > > M. > > > > "John John (MVP)" wrote: > > > > > >>Try here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266169 > >> > >>John > >> > >>mickey wrote: > >> > >> > >>>I'm running windows 2000 professional. > >>> > >>>Sometime ago I noticed that the notebook refused to suspend. Further > >>>investigation revealed that the "Hibernate" tab under the control-panel > >>>power-option disapeared. > >>> > >>>I tried updating the OS with the original CD, but that didn't work. > >>> > >>>Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can regain the "Hibernate" tab, > >>>without re-installing the OS? > >>> > >>> > >> >
Guest John John (MVP) Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Re: Lost Hibernate Tab Device Manager | Display Adapters should give you the information as well as an option to update the drivers. John mickey wrote: > I do remember reading abouta link between the video drivers and the Standby > mode. How do I go about identifying them and then re-installing? > > > "John John (MVP)" wrote: > > >>A hunch here, try reinstalling the video drivers. >> >>John >> >>mickey wrote: >> >> >>>Thanks John, but the various links didn't seem to help. >>> >>>I should clarify, now that I know there are actually two issues here. >>> >>>My PC used to have two mode of power-down; Standby and Hibernate. >>>Both are non-functional now. >>> >>>What I really want to recover is the "Standby" function. Apparently the >>>"Hibernate" function was a OEM installation - although the OEM no longer >>>makes PC's they still had the setup program for the "Hibernate" mode. The >>>setup is supposed to add a partition to the disk, but is must run under MSDOS >>>because it needs to access the HD directly - and Win 2000 will prevent it. >>>The OEM instructions for using the setup program said to start windows up in >>>MSDOS mode, well Win 2000 doesn't have an MSDOS mode startup [the instruction >>>also applied to Win 98 which did]. I found other instructions which said to >>>use a recovery disk, but there was still no way to generate a purely MSDOS >>>disk. I tried one for another PC and got MSDOS up, but when I run the setup >>>program it says there is insufficient space for the minimum space (400M). >>>Actually there is enough space, but its all part of the existing partition. >>>Either this program requires a partition to be pre-established, or its just >>>not working. >>> >>>Anyway it's possible that the lost of the Hibernate partition killed the >>>Standby mode, although I thought they were separate functions. >>> >>>I was able to run the APMSTAT program mentioned in your link reference, but >>>all the program said "This is an ACPI machine, APM is NOT relevent on this >>>machine". >>> >>>It seemed the references in your link suggest that ACPI and APM can co-exist. >>> >>>As I said I'm actually not really concerned about the "Hibernate" >>>[save-to-disk] function, but I would like to recover the Standby mode, and >>>none of the referneces on the knowledge center seem to apply or help. Do you >>>have any other suggestions? >>> >>>M. >>> >>>"John John (MVP)" wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Try here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266169 >>>> >>>>John >>>> >>>>mickey wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>I'm running windows 2000 professional. >>>>> >>>>>Sometime ago I noticed that the notebook refused to suspend. Further >>>>>investigation revealed that the "Hibernate" tab under the control-panel >>>>>power-option disapeared. >>>>> >>>>>I tried updating the OS with the original CD, but that didn't work. >>>>> >>>>>Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can regain the "Hibernate" tab, >>>>>without re-installing the OS? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>
Guest mickey Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Re: Lost Hibernate Tab Thanks John, I figured it out and used the device wizard to re-install the display driver from the original CD. Unfortunately it didn't make any difference. M. "John John (MVP)" wrote: > Device Manager | Display Adapters should give you the information as > well as an option to update the drivers. > > John > > mickey wrote: > > > I do remember reading abouta link between the video drivers and the Standby > > mode. How do I go about identifying them and then re-installing? > > > > > > "John John (MVP)" wrote: > > > > > >>A hunch here, try reinstalling the video drivers. > >> > >>John > >> > >>mickey wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Thanks John, but the various links didn't seem to help. > >>> > >>>I should clarify, now that I know there are actually two issues here. > >>> > >>>My PC used to have two mode of power-down; Standby and Hibernate. > >>>Both are non-functional now. > >>> > >>>What I really want to recover is the "Standby" function. Apparently the > >>>"Hibernate" function was a OEM installation - although the OEM no longer > >>>makes PC's they still had the setup program for the "Hibernate" mode. The > >>>setup is supposed to add a partition to the disk, but is must run under MSDOS > >>>because it needs to access the HD directly - and Win 2000 will prevent it. > >>>The OEM instructions for using the setup program said to start windows up in > >>>MSDOS mode, well Win 2000 doesn't have an MSDOS mode startup [the instruction > >>>also applied to Win 98 which did]. I found other instructions which said to > >>>use a recovery disk, but there was still no way to generate a purely MSDOS > >>>disk. I tried one for another PC and got MSDOS up, but when I run the setup > >>>program it says there is insufficient space for the minimum space (400M). > >>>Actually there is enough space, but its all part of the existing partition. > >>>Either this program requires a partition to be pre-established, or its just > >>>not working. > >>> > >>>Anyway it's possible that the lost of the Hibernate partition killed the > >>>Standby mode, although I thought they were separate functions. > >>> > >>>I was able to run the APMSTAT program mentioned in your link reference, but > >>>all the program said "This is an ACPI machine, APM is NOT relevent on this > >>>machine". > >>> > >>>It seemed the references in your link suggest that ACPI and APM can co-exist. > >>> > >>>As I said I'm actually not really concerned about the "Hibernate" > >>>[save-to-disk] function, but I would like to recover the Standby mode, and > >>>none of the referneces on the knowledge center seem to apply or help. Do you > >>>have any other suggestions? > >>> > >>>M. > >>> > >>>"John John (MVP)" wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Try here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266169 > >>>> > >>>>John > >>>> > >>>>mickey wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>I'm running windows 2000 professional. > >>>>> > >>>>>Sometime ago I noticed that the notebook refused to suspend. Further > >>>>>investigation revealed that the "Hibernate" tab under the control-panel > >>>>>power-option disapeared. > >>>>> > >>>>>I tried updating the OS with the original CD, but that didn't work. > >>>>> > >>>>>Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can regain the "Hibernate" tab, > >>>>>without re-installing the OS? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> >
Guest John John (MVP) Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 Re: Lost Hibernate Tab Did you check in the BIOS to make sure that the features aren't disabled? Other than that I don't have any other suggestions. John mickey wrote: > Thanks John, > > I figured it out and used the device wizard to re-install the display driver > from the original CD. Unfortunately it didn't make any difference. > > M. > > "John John (MVP)" wrote: > > >>Device Manager | Display Adapters should give you the information as >>well as an option to update the drivers. >> >>John >> >>mickey wrote: >> >> >>>I do remember reading abouta link between the video drivers and the Standby >>>mode. How do I go about identifying them and then re-installing? >>> >>> >>>"John John (MVP)" wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>A hunch here, try reinstalling the video drivers. >>>> >>>>John >>>> >>>>mickey wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Thanks John, but the various links didn't seem to help. >>>>> >>>>>I should clarify, now that I know there are actually two issues here. >>>>> >>>>>My PC used to have two mode of power-down; Standby and Hibernate. >>>>>Both are non-functional now. >>>>> >>>>>What I really want to recover is the "Standby" function. Apparently the >>>>>"Hibernate" function was a OEM installation - although the OEM no longer >>>>>makes PC's they still had the setup program for the "Hibernate" mode. The >>>>>setup is supposed to add a partition to the disk, but is must run under MSDOS >>>>>because it needs to access the HD directly - and Win 2000 will prevent it. >>>>>The OEM instructions for using the setup program said to start windows up in >>>>>MSDOS mode, well Win 2000 doesn't have an MSDOS mode startup [the instruction >>>>>also applied to Win 98 which did]. I found other instructions which said to >>>>>use a recovery disk, but there was still no way to generate a purely MSDOS >>>>>disk. I tried one for another PC and got MSDOS up, but when I run the setup >>>>>program it says there is insufficient space for the minimum space (400M). >>>>>Actually there is enough space, but its all part of the existing partition. >>>>>Either this program requires a partition to be pre-established, or its just >>>>>not working. >>>>> >>>>>Anyway it's possible that the lost of the Hibernate partition killed the >>>>>Standby mode, although I thought they were separate functions. >>>>> >>>>>I was able to run the APMSTAT program mentioned in your link reference, but >>>>>all the program said "This is an ACPI machine, APM is NOT relevent on this >>>>>machine". >>>>> >>>>>It seemed the references in your link suggest that ACPI and APM can co-exist. >>>>> >>>>>As I said I'm actually not really concerned about the "Hibernate" >>>>>[save-to-disk] function, but I would like to recover the Standby mode, and >>>>>none of the referneces on the knowledge center seem to apply or help. Do you >>>>>have any other suggestions? >>>>> >>>>>M. >>>>> >>>>>"John John (MVP)" wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Try here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266169 >>>>>> >>>>>>John >>>>>> >>>>>>mickey wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I'm running windows 2000 professional. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sometime ago I noticed that the notebook refused to suspend. Further >>>>>>>investigation revealed that the "Hibernate" tab under the control-panel >>>>>>>power-option disapeared. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I tried updating the OS with the original CD, but that didn't work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can regain the "Hibernate" tab, >>>>>>>without re-installing the OS? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
Guest someone watching Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 Re: Lost Hibernate Tab Don't know if what I'm about to say is accurate ... your hibernate question is causing my mind to REALLY have to look back. As I recall, the partition W2K is loaded on MUST have enough free space for a hibernate file to be formed else hibernate will not be available. As for standby .. don't know why it is not available ... related to MOBO specific chipset/power saving drivers?? That may be something to look into. ___ "mickey" <mickey@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:469455CB-77F0-4DA9-9867-343A2659CA5D@microsoft.com... > I'm running windows 2000 professional. > > Sometime ago I noticed that the notebook refused to suspend. Further > investigation revealed that the "Hibernate" tab under the > control-panel > power-option disapeared. > > I tried updating the OS with the original CD, but that didn't work. > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can regain the > "Hibernate" tab, > without re-installing the OS? > >
Guest mickey Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Lost Hibernate Tab There's nothing in the BIOS that specfically references "Standby". The only thing in the BIOS refers to the "Side-step" technology, and thats on. Thanks for your suggestions. Cheers. "John John (MVP)" wrote: > Did you check in the BIOS to make sure that the features aren't > disabled? Other than that I don't have any other suggestions. > > John > > mickey wrote: > > > Thanks John, > > > > I figured it out and used the device wizard to re-install the display driver > > from the original CD. Unfortunately it didn't make any difference. > > > > M. > > > > "John John (MVP)" wrote: > > > > > >>Device Manager | Display Adapters should give you the information as > >>well as an option to update the drivers. > >> > >>John > >> > >>mickey wrote: > >> > >> > >>>I do remember reading abouta link between the video drivers and the Standby > >>>mode. How do I go about identifying them and then re-installing? > >>> > >>> > >>>"John John (MVP)" wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>A hunch here, try reinstalling the video drivers. > >>>> > >>>>John > >>>> > >>>>mickey wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Thanks John, but the various links didn't seem to help. > >>>>> > >>>>>I should clarify, now that I know there are actually two issues here. > >>>>> > >>>>>My PC used to have two mode of power-down; Standby and Hibernate. > >>>>>Both are non-functional now. > >>>>> > >>>>>What I really want to recover is the "Standby" function. Apparently the > >>>>>"Hibernate" function was a OEM installation - although the OEM no longer > >>>>>makes PC's they still had the setup program for the "Hibernate" mode. The > >>>>>setup is supposed to add a partition to the disk, but is must run under MSDOS > >>>>>because it needs to access the HD directly - and Win 2000 will prevent it. > >>>>>The OEM instructions for using the setup program said to start windows up in > >>>>>MSDOS mode, well Win 2000 doesn't have an MSDOS mode startup [the instruction > >>>>>also applied to Win 98 which did]. I found other instructions which said to > >>>>>use a recovery disk, but there was still no way to generate a purely MSDOS > >>>>>disk. I tried one for another PC and got MSDOS up, but when I run the setup > >>>>>program it says there is insufficient space for the minimum space (400M). > >>>>>Actually there is enough space, but its all part of the existing partition. > >>>>>Either this program requires a partition to be pre-established, or its just > >>>>>not working. > >>>>> > >>>>>Anyway it's possible that the lost of the Hibernate partition killed the > >>>>>Standby mode, although I thought they were separate functions. > >>>>> > >>>>>I was able to run the APMSTAT program mentioned in your link reference, but > >>>>>all the program said "This is an ACPI machine, APM is NOT relevent on this > >>>>>machine". > >>>>> > >>>>>It seemed the references in your link suggest that ACPI and APM can co-exist. > >>>>> > >>>>>As I said I'm actually not really concerned about the "Hibernate" > >>>>>[save-to-disk] function, but I would like to recover the Standby mode, and > >>>>>none of the referneces on the knowledge center seem to apply or help. Do you > >>>>>have any other suggestions? > >>>>> > >>>>>M. > >>>>> > >>>>>"John John (MVP)" wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>Try here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266169 > >>>>>> > >>>>>>John > >>>>>> > >>>>>>mickey wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>I'm running windows 2000 professional. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Sometime ago I noticed that the notebook refused to suspend. Further > >>>>>>>investigation revealed that the "Hibernate" tab under the control-panel > >>>>>>>power-option disapeared. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>I tried updating the OS with the original CD, but that didn't work. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can regain the "Hibernate" tab, > >>>>>>>without re-installing the OS? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >
Guest mickey Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Lost Hibernate Tab Yes, the "Hibernate" function requires a special partition. It was installed by the OEM; the OEM provided software, which states that there is insufficient space to re-create the partition - I don't know if there is a way to free-up some of the space of the primary partition without destroying the existing data. Originally I thought that the loss of the "Hibernate" function might have affected the "Standby" mode, but from everything I've read they appear to be independent functions. M. "someone watching" wrote: > Don't know if what I'm about to say is accurate ... your hibernate > question is causing my mind to REALLY have to look back. > > As I recall, the partition W2K is loaded on MUST have enough free space > for a hibernate file to be formed else hibernate will not be available. > As for standby .. don't know why it is not available ... related to MOBO > specific chipset/power saving drivers?? That may be something to look > into. > ___ > "mickey" <mickey@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:469455CB-77F0-4DA9-9867-343A2659CA5D@microsoft.com... > > I'm running windows 2000 professional. > > > > Sometime ago I noticed that the notebook refused to suspend. Further > > investigation revealed that the "Hibernate" tab under the > > control-panel > > power-option disapeared. > > > > I tried updating the OS with the original CD, but that didn't work. > > > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can regain the > > "Hibernate" tab, > > without re-installing the OS? > > > > > > >
Guest someone watching Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Re: Lost Hibernate Tab "mickey" <mickey@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:EDE4E15E-9848-4438-96A9-55D04A78EC1E@microsoft.com... > Yes, the "Hibernate" function requires a special partition. It was installed > by the OEM; the OEM provided software, which states that there is > insufficient space to re-create the partition - I don't know if there is a > way to free-up some of the space of the primary partition without destroying > the existing data. I've never resized a partition before, too chicken I guess, but MANY other do it often with great success. The tool I've heard most mentioned is Partition Magic. Perhaps you'll want to give it a try. Perhaps others will chime in with their preference.
Guest mickey Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Re: Lost Hibernate Tab Thanks for the input, I'll check out the program - nothing ventured nothing gained. "someone watching" wrote: > "mickey" <mickey@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:EDE4E15E-9848-4438-96A9-55D04A78EC1E@microsoft.com... > > Yes, the "Hibernate" function requires a special partition. It was > installed > > by the OEM; the OEM provided software, which states that there is > > insufficient space to re-create the partition - I don't know if there > is a > > way to free-up some of the space of the primary partition without > destroying > > the existing data. > > I've never resized a partition before, too chicken I guess, but MANY > other do it often with great success. The tool I've heard most mentioned > is Partition Magic. Perhaps you'll want to give it a try. Perhaps others > will chime in with their preference. > > >
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