Raid 5 problems in Vista 64 bit

[Guest Maz]

Guys it looks like lately My rig have been PROBLEM MAGNET , i hit another

problem yesterday , when i had the blue screen problem with vista 64 bit

because of the 4gb of ram , windows installation crashed as i mentioned in

another post , and then when i got the problem fixed thanks to Carlos and few

other people i rebooted the computer after finish installing vista , and then

the raid came up with a message telling me that one of the 3 drives have an

error and the raid is degraded !!! mind you i just bought the 3 hard drives

so i can make raid 5 from about a week , so they still brand new ! but i'm

guessing the isntallation for windows on the other single drive and because

it crashed ! , something happened the raid array for some reason !!! then i

went in windows and the S.M.A.R.T drive monitoring telling me that one of the

drives have problem and it failed to be in the array "so it's asking me to

change it before another one fails then i loose my data " ?!?!?! but then i

restarted the computer to see what the hell is going on in the raid menu

"because i'm using motherboard raid" it's telling me that it's healthy !

with the 3 drives in the array !!!! so is anybody know what's going on with

me and how can i double check that all my drives are ok ?!?!

thank you

[Guest Carlos]

RE: Raid 5 problems in Vista 64 bit

 

Maz,

It looks like you are really having a hardware failure in one of your HD's,

a thing we call in electronics as "infant failure" or the "bath-tub curve".

First of all, relax and make backups of any important data you may have in

your RAID 5 array.

Next steps:

1.-Remove the problematic drive and return it to the vendor or

2.- Connect the problematic drive as a "standalone" one and run the drive

manufacturer's diagnosis programs on it in order to check any failure before

jumping to step number 1.

 

I am running RAID 0 with no problems but there could be more RAID 5

knowledgeable guys in this NG that would like to share their thoughts.

FWIW I have just installed a external LAN disk for backups of all my

important data that, of course, is not on the RAID 0 disks.

Carlos

"Maz" wrote:

> Guys it looks like lately My rig have been PROBLEM MAGNET , i hit another

> problem yesterday , when i had the blue screen problem with vista 64 bit

> because of the 4gb of ram , windows installation crashed as i mentioned in

> another post , and then when i got the problem fixed thanks to Carlos and few

> other people i rebooted the computer after finish installing vista , and then

> the raid came up with a message telling me that one of the 3 drives have an

> error and the raid is degraded !!! mind you i just bought the 3 hard drives

> so i can make raid 5 from about a week , so they still brand new ! but i'm

> guessing the isntallation for windows on the other single drive and because

> it crashed ! , something happened the raid array for some reason !!! then i

> went in windows and the S.M.A.R.T drive monitoring telling me that one of the

> drives have problem and it failed to be in the array "so it's asking me to

> change it before another one fails then i loose my data " ?!?!?! but then i

> restarted the computer to see what the hell is going on in the raid menu

> "because i'm using motherboard raid" it's telling me that it's healthy !

> with the 3 drives in the array !!!! so is anybody know what's going on with

> me and how can i double check that all my drives are ok ?!?!

> thank you

[Guest Maz]

RE: Raid 5 problems in Vista 64 bit

 

Thanks carlos i'll do that today , just a question do u think raid 0 is fast

and would it beat the WD Raptor with the speed ?? cause now that i had one of

the drive faild and i'm no longer doing raid 5 i'm thinking to do raid 0 with

the two drives and make one as a backup if it still working properly ...

 

"Carlos" wrote:

> Maz,

> It looks like you are really having a hardware failure in one of your HD's,

> a thing we call in electronics as "infant failure" or the "bath-tub curve".

> First of all, relax and make backups of any important data you may have in

> your RAID 5 array.

> Next steps:

> 1.-Remove the problematic drive and return it to the vendor or

> 2.- Connect the problematic drive as a "standalone" one and run the drive

> manufacturer's diagnosis programs on it in order to check any failure before

> jumping to step number 1.

>

> I am running RAID 0 with no problems but there could be more RAID 5

> knowledgeable guys in this NG that would like to share their thoughts.

> FWIW I have just installed a external LAN disk for backups of all my

> important data that, of course, is not on the RAID 0 disks.

> Carlos

> "Maz" wrote:

>

> > Guys it looks like lately My rig have been PROBLEM MAGNET , i hit another

> > problem yesterday , when i had the blue screen problem with vista 64 bit

> > because of the 4gb of ram , windows installation crashed as i mentioned in

> > another post , and then when i got the problem fixed thanks to Carlos and few

> > other people i rebooted the computer after finish installing vista , and then

> > the raid came up with a message telling me that one of the 3 drives have an

> > error and the raid is degraded !!! mind you i just bought the 3 hard drives

> > so i can make raid 5 from about a week , so they still brand new ! but i'm

> > guessing the isntallation for windows on the other single drive and because

> > it crashed ! , something happened the raid array for some reason !!! then i

> > went in windows and the S.M.A.R.T drive monitoring telling me that one of the

> > drives have problem and it failed to be in the array "so it's asking me to

> > change it before another one fails then i loose my data " ?!?!?! but then i

> > restarted the computer to see what the hell is going on in the raid menu

> > "because i'm using motherboard raid" it's telling me that it's healthy !

> > with the 3 drives in the array !!!! so is anybody know what's going on with

> > me and how can i double check that all my drives are ok ?!?!

> > thank you

[Guest Tony Sperling]

Re: Raid 5 problems in Vista 64 bit

 

It doesn't have to mean anything - after a crash something may look 'spooky'

to the RAID, if it starts up O.K. I really think it is O.K.

 

Have a look inside the RAID setup at boot-time (F10, here) among the options

there you may have some form of a diagnostic - I would try to boot normal

and watch out for messages.

 

 

Tony. . .

 

 

"Carlos" <Carlos@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:A56A7E6C-099C-459D-976C-F07FBEA64B50@microsoft.com...

> Maz,

> It looks like you are really having a hardware failure in one of your

> HD's,

> a thing we call in electronics as "infant failure" or the "bath-tub

> curve".

> First of all, relax and make backups of any important data you may have in

> your RAID 5 array.

> Next steps:

> 1.-Remove the problematic drive and return it to the vendor or

> 2.- Connect the problematic drive as a "standalone" one and run the drive

> manufacturer's diagnosis programs on it in order to check any failure

> before

> jumping to step number 1.

>

> I am running RAID 0 with no problems but there could be more RAID 5

> knowledgeable guys in this NG that would like to share their thoughts.

> FWIW I have just installed a external LAN disk for backups of all my

> important data that, of course, is not on the RAID 0 disks.

> Carlos

> "Maz" wrote:

>

>> Guys it looks like lately My rig have been PROBLEM MAGNET , i hit another

>> problem yesterday , when i had the blue screen problem with vista 64 bit

>> because of the 4gb of ram , windows installation crashed as i mentioned

>> in

>> another post , and then when i got the problem fixed thanks to Carlos and

>> few

>> other people i rebooted the computer after finish installing vista , and

>> then

>> the raid came up with a message telling me that one of the 3 drives have

>> an

>> error and the raid is degraded !!! mind you i just bought the 3 hard

>> drives

>> so i can make raid 5 from about a week , so they still brand new ! but

>> i'm

>> guessing the isntallation for windows on the other single drive and

>> because

>> it crashed ! , something happened the raid array for some reason !!! then

>> i

>> went in windows and the S.M.A.R.T drive monitoring telling me that one of

>> the

>> drives have problem and it failed to be in the array "so it's asking me

>> to

>> change it before another one fails then i loose my data " ?!?!?! but

>> then i

>> restarted the computer to see what the hell is going on in the raid menu

>> "because i'm using motherboard raid" it's telling me that it's healthy !

>> with the 3 drives in the array !!!! so is anybody know what's going on

>> with

>> me and how can i double check that all my drives are ok ?!?!

>> thank you

[Guest R. C. White]

Re: Raid 5 problems in Vista 64 bit

 

Hi, Maz.

 

I have only limited experience with RAID, but my limited experience might be

of interest to you.

 

A year ago, I created my first RAID. I bought 2 identical 300 GB Seagate

SATA HDs and created a RAID1, using my new EPoX mobo's built-in RAID

controller. (This new mobo has SIX SATA ports - plus 2 eSATA, which I

haven't used yet, and 2 IDE ports which I use for CD/DVD burners.) These

are my 3rd and 4th HDs; the first 2 are 120 and 200 GB Maxtors, also SATA

but not RAID. Last year (2006) had been a rough year for me and hard

drives. Two Maxtor HDs, each less than a year old, had gone bad and taken

several GB of photos and other archives with them. Maxtor RMAed the drives,

but not my data, of course, so I was interested in a RAID1 mirror for

redundancy.

 

Within a day or two, the RAID BIOS was reporting on boot-up that the RAID

was "degraded" and that one drive was failing! I took it back to Best Buy

and exchanged it for an identical new one. Within another day or two, the

RAID was degraded again! Like you, probably, I tried every test I could

think of and the drive was still "bad". But I just couldn't believe that

two Seagates would be DOA.

 

Since this was my first RAID experience, I had gone slow. I first

partitioned and formatted one of the drives, then used Xcopy to move

everything from my old, failing HD before returning it to Maxtor. Then I

added the second Seagate and created the RAID1, telling the utility to build

the mirror on the fly. When the first Seagate seemed to go bad, I broke the

mirror and operated for a few days on just the good one. Then I plugged in

the replacement drive and again told the RAID utility to rebuild the array

in the background while I worked.

 

After the second "degrade" episode, it dawned on me that the RAID utility

probably was overly concerned. Of course the two mirrors were not yet

identical because all the data on the first drive had not yet been

duplicated onto the second drive. So I just help my breath and charged

ahead. Sure enough, after a couple of days of routine use of my computer

while the mirror was being built, the error messages stopped. In the year

since then, I've received no more warnings of a degraded RAID1. ;<)

 

As I said, my RAID experience is very limited. I've never used RAID5 or

RAID0. And I can't promise that what worked for me will work for you. But

you might want to just give your RAID time to build its array and see if it

will cure itself.

 

I'll be watching for comments from others here with more experience so that

I can learn from them, rather than from my own mistakes. ;^}

 

RC

--

R. C. White, CPA

San Marcos, TX

rc@grandecom.net

Microsoft Windows MVP

(Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64)

 

"Maz" <Maz@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:E37637F1-3830-4631-9B94-BFBE9BC267D0@microsoft.com...

> Guys it looks like lately My rig have been PROBLEM MAGNET , i hit another

> problem yesterday , when i had the blue screen problem with vista 64 bit

> because of the 4gb of ram , windows installation crashed as i mentioned in

> another post , and then when i got the problem fixed thanks to Carlos and

> few

> other people i rebooted the computer after finish installing vista , and

> then

> the raid came up with a message telling me that one of the 3 drives have

> an

> error and the raid is degraded !!! mind you i just bought the 3 hard

> drives

> so i can make raid 5 from about a week , so they still brand new ! but i'm

> guessing the isntallation for windows on the other single drive and

> because

> it crashed ! , something happened the raid array for some reason !!! then

> i

> went in windows and the S.M.A.R.T drive monitoring telling me that one of

> the

> drives have problem and it failed to be in the array "so it's asking me to

> change it before another one fails then i loose my data " ?!?!?! but then

> i

> restarted the computer to see what the hell is going on in the raid menu

> "because i'm using motherboard raid" it's telling me that it's healthy !

> with the 3 drives in the array !!!! so is anybody know what's going on

> with

> me and how can i double check that all my drives are ok ?!?!

> thank you

[Guest Tony Sperling]

Re: Raid 5 problems in Vista 64 bit

 

Well, I more or less agree. As yourself RC, my own experience is limited.

For me it's RAID0's. On one occasion I had managed to f*ck up something and

when re-booting I had an error message, I was so perplexed that I didn't

have time to intervene and it just went ahead - the machine froze completely

and I re-booted again and hit my F10 entering the setup routine. I went

through every single option I could think of trying to establish what had

happened, but everything indicated that the RAID was healthy. So, I booted

again and everything was just as normal as it ever was. This is a couple of

years back, and I had no more trouble since. (Not from the RAID!)

 

I agree, the RAID subsystem is overly paranoid, and thanks for that, we do

want it to report even the slightest hint of any kind of a problem - but it

does make your heart stop for a moment.

 

I really think that if there IS a problem, the RAID setup will know almost

exactly what it is, and will tell you about it, if it gives you the clear,

there's no reason that I can see to not try and boot the thing.

 

If you need to replace a drive on a Mirroring RAID, as far as I know you

DON'T try and make any attempts at rescue, you swap the drive and enter RAID

Setup and simply ask it to re-build! I strongly assume that trying to rescue

with a failing drive attached might ruin the whole thing?

 

 

Tony. . .

 

 

"R. C. White" <rc@grandecom.net> wrote in message

news:EE95FEA5-DCB2-4EC3-8B41-DD1E8E683F9A@microsoft.com...

> Hi, Maz.

>

> I have only limited experience with RAID, but my limited experience might

> be of interest to you.

>

> A year ago, I created my first RAID. I bought 2 identical 300 GB Seagate

> SATA HDs and created a RAID1, using my new EPoX mobo's built-in RAID

> controller. (This new mobo has SIX SATA ports - plus 2 eSATA, which I

> haven't used yet, and 2 IDE ports which I use for CD/DVD burners.) These

> are my 3rd and 4th HDs; the first 2 are 120 and 200 GB Maxtors, also SATA

> but not RAID. Last year (2006) had been a rough year for me and hard

> drives. Two Maxtor HDs, each less than a year old, had gone bad and taken

> several GB of photos and other archives with them. Maxtor RMAed the

> drives, but not my data, of course, so I was interested in a RAID1 mirror

> for redundancy.

>

> Within a day or two, the RAID BIOS was reporting on boot-up that the RAID

> was "degraded" and that one drive was failing! I took it back to Best Buy

> and exchanged it for an identical new one. Within another day or two, the

> RAID was degraded again! Like you, probably, I tried every test I could

> think of and the drive was still "bad". But I just couldn't believe that

> two Seagates would be DOA.

>

> Since this was my first RAID experience, I had gone slow. I first

> partitioned and formatted one of the drives, then used Xcopy to move

> everything from my old, failing HD before returning it to Maxtor. Then I

> added the second Seagate and created the RAID1, telling the utility to

> build the mirror on the fly. When the first Seagate seemed to go bad, I

> broke the mirror and operated for a few days on just the good one. Then I

> plugged in the replacement drive and again told the RAID utility to

> rebuild the array in the background while I worked.

>

> After the second "degrade" episode, it dawned on me that the RAID utility

> probably was overly concerned. Of course the two mirrors were not yet

> identical because all the data on the first drive had not yet been

> duplicated onto the second drive. So I just help my breath and charged

> ahead. Sure enough, after a couple of days of routine use of my computer

> while the mirror was being built, the error messages stopped. In the year

> since then, I've received no more warnings of a degraded RAID1. ;<)

>

> As I said, my RAID experience is very limited. I've never used RAID5 or

> RAID0. And I can't promise that what worked for me will work for you.

> But you might want to just give your RAID time to build its array and see

> if it will cure itself.

>

> I'll be watching for comments from others here with more experience so

> that I can learn from them, rather than from my own mistakes. ;^}

>

> RC

> --

> R. C. White, CPA

> San Marcos, TX

> rc@grandecom.net

> Microsoft Windows MVP

> (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64)

>

> "Maz" <Maz@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:E37637F1-3830-4631-9B94-BFBE9BC267D0@microsoft.com...

>> Guys it looks like lately My rig have been PROBLEM MAGNET , i hit another

>> problem yesterday , when i had the blue screen problem with vista 64 bit

>> because of the 4gb of ram , windows installation crashed as i mentioned

>> in

>> another post , and then when i got the problem fixed thanks to Carlos and

>> few

>> other people i rebooted the computer after finish installing vista , and

>> then

>> the raid came up with a message telling me that one of the 3 drives have

>> an

>> error and the raid is degraded !!! mind you i just bought the 3 hard

>> drives

>> so i can make raid 5 from about a week , so they still brand new ! but

>> i'm

>> guessing the isntallation for windows on the other single drive and

>> because

>> it crashed ! , something happened the raid array for some reason !!! then

>> i

>> went in windows and the S.M.A.R.T drive monitoring telling me that one of

>> the

>> drives have problem and it failed to be in the array "so it's asking me

>> to

>> change it before another one fails then i loose my data " ?!?!?! but

>> then i

>> restarted the computer to see what the hell is going on in the raid menu

>> "because i'm using motherboard raid" it's telling me that it's healthy !

>> with the 3 drives in the array !!!! so is anybody know what's going on

>> with

>> me and how can i double check that all my drives are ok ?!?!

>> thank you

>

[Guest Charlie Russel - MVP]

Re: Raid 5 problems in Vista 64 bit

 

Early failure of hard disks is fairly common. If they're going to fail, it

will happen in the first month, or a long time down the road. What Carlos

correctly calls the bathtub curve. Of course if they get hit with a power

spike you'll see more drive failures.

 

The thing is, if you'd been running RAID0, you'd have completely lost your

entire array. Any data on it would have been gone, and not recoverable.

Would RAID0 be faster than RAID5? Certainly. Would you notice this speed

difference? I doubt it, but possibly. If speed is important, then what you

really want is more, but smaller, disks. That way you can build redundancy

AND have speed.

 

On my HP ML350 server, I have 8 SAS hard disks in a RAID 5 array. They are

each 15,000 RPM, 2.5" drives, and the entire array only takes up two

standard HD slots. It's fast, and it's secure. And yes, I had one of those

drives fail in the first month of the server. I popped it out, popped in a

new one, and never even noticed. Oh, and yes, the array is quite fast. ;)

 

S.M.A.R.T. is a way to identify hard disks that are getting close to

failing. Most failures are preceeded by a period of degraded performance,

and SMART is designed to spot that period and warn you so you can swap the

drive out before it fails. A SMART warning doesn't absolutely mean that the

drive will fail. But if you ignore it, you're asking for trouble.

 

--

Charlie.

http://msmvps.com/xperts64

http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

 

 

"Maz" <Maz@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:138015F7-55A7-454B-BC76-1C5CE50585BB@microsoft.com...

> Thanks carlos i'll do that today , just a question do u think raid 0 is

> fast

> and would it beat the WD Raptor with the speed ?? cause now that i had one

> of

> the drive faild and i'm no longer doing raid 5 i'm thinking to do raid 0

> with

> the two drives and make one as a backup if it still working properly ...

>

> "Carlos" wrote:

>

>> Maz,

>> It looks like you are really having a hardware failure in one of your

>> HD's,

>> a thing we call in electronics as "infant failure" or the "bath-tub

>> curve".

>> First of all, relax and make backups of any important data you may have

>> in

>> your RAID 5 array.

>> Next steps:

>> 1.-Remove the problematic drive and return it to the vendor or

>> 2.- Connect the problematic drive as a "standalone" one and run the drive

>> manufacturer's diagnosis programs on it in order to check any failure

>> before

>> jumping to step number 1.

>>

>> I am running RAID 0 with no problems but there could be more RAID 5

>> knowledgeable guys in this NG that would like to share their thoughts.

>> FWIW I have just installed a external LAN disk for backups of all my

>> important data that, of course, is not on the RAID 0 disks.

>> Carlos

>> "Maz" wrote:

>>

>> > Guys it looks like lately My rig have been PROBLEM MAGNET , i hit

>> > another

>> > problem yesterday , when i had the blue screen problem with vista 64

>> > bit

>> > because of the 4gb of ram , windows installation crashed as i mentioned

>> > in

>> > another post , and then when i got the problem fixed thanks to Carlos

>> > and few

>> > other people i rebooted the computer after finish installing vista ,

>> > and then

>> > the raid came up with a message telling me that one of the 3 drives

>> > have an

>> > error and the raid is degraded !!! mind you i just bought the 3 hard

>> > drives

>> > so i can make raid 5 from about a week , so they still brand new ! but

>> > i'm

>> > guessing the isntallation for windows on the other single drive and

>> > because

>> > it crashed ! , something happened the raid array for some reason !!!

>> > then i

>> > went in windows and the S.M.A.R.T drive monitoring telling me that one

>> > of the

>> > drives have problem and it failed to be in the array "so it's asking me

>> > to

>> > change it before another one fails then i loose my data " ?!?!?! but

>> > then i

>> > restarted the computer to see what the hell is going on in the raid

>> > menu

>> > "because i'm using motherboard raid" it's telling me that it's healthy

>> > !

>> > with the 3 drives in the array !!!! so is anybody know what's going on

>> > with

>> > me and how can i double check that all my drives are ok ?!?!

>> > thank you