Laptop HD upgrade, NTLDR is Missing!!

December 11, 2007

I have a Compaq Evo N600c laptop, with Windows 2000 Pro.

The existing 30GB HD gave me a scare the other day when the machine

started and wanted to scan the drive for errors. It had previously

shutdown normally. The scan showed 32K of bad sectors, so I thought it

time to replace it. The original drive was a Hitachi Travelstar, but I

could get an identical new one, so I got a Hitachi Travelstar 60GB

drive instead.

A sector-by-sector copy was taken using Ghost 8.5, and this was put

onto the new drive. When mounted in a USB casing the new drive

functions fine, and all the files in the new drive are accessible.

However the laptop will not boot from it.

I have tried running the Windows Console, and repairing the W2K

installation, I have tried copying NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files from

the original drive. I have checked the BOOT.INI file, and can't spot

anything untoward there.

I have found various techniques on the net, that require the use of a

laptop drive which I don't have. So those techniques are not available

to me. As far as I can tell the Ghost copying process has copied the

NTLDR and NDETECT.COM files and yet it still says the file is missing.

I can only assume at this stage that the MBR and/or the BOOT.INI file

are pointing to the wrong place, but I am unsure how to verify whether

or not this is the case and how to correct them is they are wrong.

I have access to:

USB drive case, for 2.5" ATA drives.

The laptop, which has a DVD-ROM drive, but no floppy drive.

A PC, also with a DVD+/-RW drive, but no floppy drive.

What am I likely doing wrong?

How can I more fully diagnose what is actually happening?

Cheers

December 11, 2007

Re: Laptop HD upgrade, NTLDR is Missing!!

"Stephen" <srmoll@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:ae64686c-a990-4c50-bd78-06be1ee73746@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>I have a Compaq Evo N600c laptop, with Windows 2000 Pro.

>

> The existing 30GB HD gave me a scare the other day when the machine

> started and wanted to scan the drive for errors. It had previously

> shutdown normally. The scan showed 32K of bad sectors, so I thought it

> time to replace it. The original drive was a Hitachi Travelstar, but I

> could get an identical new one, so I got a Hitachi Travelstar 60GB

> drive instead.

>

> A sector-by-sector copy was taken using Ghost 8.5, and this was put

> onto the new drive. When mounted in a USB casing the new drive

> functions fine, and all the files in the new drive are accessible.

> However the laptop will not boot from it.

>

> I have tried running the Windows Console, and repairing the W2K

> installation, I have tried copying NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files from

> the original drive. I have checked the BOOT.INI file, and can't spot

> anything untoward there.

>

> I have found various techniques on the net, that require the use of a

> laptop drive which I don't have. So those techniques are not available

> to me. As far as I can tell the Ghost copying process has copied the

> NTLDR and NDETECT.COM files and yet it still says the file is missing.

> I can only assume at this stage that the MBR and/or the BOOT.INI file

> are pointing to the wrong place, but I am unsure how to verify whether

> or not this is the case and how to correct them is they are wrong.

>

> I have access to:

>

> USB drive case, for 2.5" ATA drives.

> The laptop, which has a DVD-ROM drive, but no floppy drive.

> A PC, also with a DVD+/-RW drive, but no floppy drive.

>

> What am I likely doing wrong?

> How can I more fully diagnose what is actually happening?

>

> Cheers

>

The boot sequence goes roughly like this:

1. The BIOS launches the code located in the MBR (Master Boot Record).

2. The MBR code invokes ntldr.

3. NTLDR processes boot.ini.

Since the error message reports "Missing ntldr", there is no point in

examining boot.ini.

I can think of two reasons why you might get this error message:

a) The MBR is incorrect. An easy way to fix it is to boot the

machine with a Win98 boot disk (http://www.bootdisk.com),

then to run this command: fdisk /mbr.

b) The disk geometry (Cylinder/Head/Sector) is incorrect.

To fix this you would need to compare the old and the

new setting on a desktop PC because few laptop BIOSs

have a facility to adjust these parameters. You would

also need an adapter to connect your 2.5" disk to a

standard ribbon cable.

Until you get this problem resolved, you could probably boot

the machine with a Win2000 boot diskette or CD. Post again

if you need instructions on how to make one.

December 11, 2007

Re: Laptop HD upgrade, NTLDR is Missing!!

On 11 Dec, 17:23, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I....@fly.com> wrote:

> "Stephen" <srm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>

> news:ae64686c-a990-4c50-bd78-06be1ee73746@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>

> >I have a Compaq Evo N600c laptop, with Windows 2000 Pro.

>

> > The existing 30GB HD gave me a scare the other day when the machine

> > started and wanted to scan the drive for errors. It had previously

> > shutdown normally. The scan showed 32K of bad sectors, so I thought it

> > time to replace it. The original drive was a Hitachi Travelstar, but I

> > could get an identical new one, so I got a Hitachi Travelstar 60GB

> > drive instead.

>

> > A sector-by-sector copy was taken using Ghost 8.5, and this was put

> > onto the new drive. When mounted in a USB casing the new drive

> > functions fine, and all the files in the new drive are accessible.

> > However the laptop will not boot from it.

>

> > I have tried running the Windows Console, and repairing the W2K

> > installation, I have tried copying NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files from

> > the original drive. I have checked the BOOT.INI file, and can't spot

> > anything untoward there.

>

> > I have found various techniques on the net, that require the use of a

> > laptop drive which I don't have. So those techniques are not available

> > to me. As far as I can tell the Ghost copying process has copied the

> > NTLDR and NDETECT.COM files and yet it still says the file is missing.

> > I can only assume at this stage that the MBR and/or the BOOT.INI file

> > are pointing to the wrong place, but I am unsure how to verify whether

> > or not this is the case and how to correct them is they are wrong.

>

> > I have access to:

>

> > USB drive case, for 2.5" ATA drives.

> > The laptop, which has a DVD-ROM drive, but no floppy drive.

> > A PC, also with a DVD+/-RW drive, but no floppy drive.

>

> > What am I likely doing wrong?

> > How can I more fully diagnose what is actually happening?

>

> > Cheers

>

> The boot sequence goes roughly like this:

>

> 1. The BIOS launches the code located in the MBR (Master Boot Record).

> 2. The MBR code invokes ntldr.

> 3. NTLDR processes boot.ini.

>

> Since the error message reports "Missing ntldr", there is no point in

> examining boot.ini.

>

> I can think of two reasons why you might get this error message:

> a) The MBR is incorrect. An easy way to fix it is to boot the

> machine with a Win98 boot disk (http://www.bootdisk.com),

> then to run this command: fdisk /mbr.

> b) The disk geometry (Cylinder/Head/Sector) is incorrect.

> To fix this you would need to compare the old and the

> new setting on a desktop PC because few laptop BIOSs

> have a facility to adjust these parameters. You would

> also need an adapter to connect your 2.5" disk to a

> standard ribbon cable.

>

> Until you get this problem resolved, you could probably boot

> the machine with a Win2000 boot diskette or CD. Post again

> if you need instructions on how to make one.- Hide quoted text -

>

> - Show quoted text -

I have managed to get a hold of a floppy drive module for the laptop,

so that's a new option open to me if needs be.

Reading your reply makes sense. I have just run an "Ultimate Boot CD 4

Win", which has various drive tools on it. One of which stated that

there was a problem with the drive geometry, and went on further to

say that it was probably an incorrect figure for the number of heads.

How do I ascertain the correct geometry for the new drive? And what do

I need to change to make this work? The laptop BIOS has precious

little helpful options in it, and certainly nothing that looks useful

with regards to the hard drive.

December 11, 2007

Re: Laptop HD upgrade, NTLDR is Missing!!

"Stephen" <srmoll@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:5b80086c-ed4b-4faa-9057-3045a73eb835@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

> On 11 Dec, 17:23, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I....@fly.com> wrote:

>> "Stephen" <srm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>>

>> news:ae64686c-a990-4c50-bd78-06be1ee73746@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>>

>> >I have a Compaq Evo N600c laptop, with Windows 2000 Pro.

>>

>> > The existing 30GB HD gave me a scare the other day when the machine

>> > started and wanted to scan the drive for errors. It had previously

>> > shutdown normally. The scan showed 32K of bad sectors, so I thought it

>> > time to replace it. The original drive was a Hitachi Travelstar, but I

>> > could get an identical new one, so I got a Hitachi Travelstar 60GB

>> > drive instead.

>>

>> > A sector-by-sector copy was taken using Ghost 8.5, and this was put

>> > onto the new drive. When mounted in a USB casing the new drive

>> > functions fine, and all the files in the new drive are accessible.

>> > However the laptop will not boot from it.

>>

>> > I have tried running the Windows Console, and repairing the W2K

>> > installation, I have tried copying NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files from

>> > the original drive. I have checked the BOOT.INI file, and can't spot

>> > anything untoward there.

>>

>> > I have found various techniques on the net, that require the use of a

>> > laptop drive which I don't have. So those techniques are not available

>> > to me. As far as I can tell the Ghost copying process has copied the

>> > NTLDR and NDETECT.COM files and yet it still says the file is missing.

>> > I can only assume at this stage that the MBR and/or the BOOT.INI file

>> > are pointing to the wrong place, but I am unsure how to verify whether

>> > or not this is the case and how to correct them is they are wrong.

>>

>> > I have access to:

>>

>> > USB drive case, for 2.5" ATA drives.

>> > The laptop, which has a DVD-ROM drive, but no floppy drive.

>> > A PC, also with a DVD+/-RW drive, but no floppy drive.

>>

>> > What am I likely doing wrong?

>> > How can I more fully diagnose what is actually happening?

>>

>> > Cheers

>>

>> The boot sequence goes roughly like this:

>>

>> 1. The BIOS launches the code located in the MBR (Master Boot Record).

>> 2. The MBR code invokes ntldr.

>> 3. NTLDR processes boot.ini.

>>

>> Since the error message reports "Missing ntldr", there is no point in

>> examining boot.ini.

>>

>> I can think of two reasons why you might get this error message:

>> a) The MBR is incorrect. An easy way to fix it is to boot the

>> machine with a Win98 boot disk (http://www.bootdisk.com),

>> then to run this command: fdisk /mbr.

>> b) The disk geometry (Cylinder/Head/Sector) is incorrect.

>> To fix this you would need to compare the old and the

>> new setting on a desktop PC because few laptop BIOSs

>> have a facility to adjust these parameters. You would

>> also need an adapter to connect your 2.5" disk to a

>> standard ribbon cable.

>>

>> Until you get this problem resolved, you could probably boot

>> the machine with a Win2000 boot diskette or CD. Post again

>> if you need instructions on how to make one.- Hide quoted text -

>>

>> - Show quoted text -

>

> I have managed to get a hold of a floppy drive module for the laptop,

> so that's a new option open to me if needs be.

>

> Reading your reply makes sense. I have just run an "Ultimate Boot CD 4

> Win", which has various drive tools on it. One of which stated that

> there was a problem with the drive geometry, and went on further to

> say that it was probably an incorrect figure for the number of heads.

>

> How do I ascertain the correct geometry for the new drive? And what do

> I need to change to make this work? The laptop BIOS has precious

> little helpful options in it, and certainly nothing that looks useful

> with regards to the hard drive.

>

I know of two ways to obtain the correct drive geometry:

- Read it off the disk label

- Get a desktop BIOS to report it to you.

The only way I have ever been able to change a drive geometry

is by using a desktop PC with a halfway intelligent BIOS. After

changing it, you would need to re-image the disk.

December 11, 2007

Re: Laptop HD upgrade, NTLDR is Missing!!

On 11 Dec, 20:36, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I....@fly.com> wrote:

> "Stephen" <srm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>

> news:5b80086c-ed4b-4faa-9057-3045a73eb835@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>

> > On 11 Dec, 17:23, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I....@fly.com> wrote:

> >> "Stephen" <srm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>

> >>news:ae64686c-a990-4c50-bd78-06be1ee73746@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>

> >> >I have a Compaq Evo N600c laptop, with Windows 2000 Pro.

>

> >> > The existing 30GB HD gave me a scare the other day when the machine

> >> > started and wanted to scan the drive for errors. It had previously

> >> > shutdown normally. The scan showed 32K of bad sectors, so I thought it

> >> > time to replace it. The original drive was a Hitachi Travelstar, but I

> >> > could get an identical new one, so I got a Hitachi Travelstar 60GB

> >> > drive instead.

>

> >> > A sector-by-sector copy was taken using Ghost 8.5, and this was put

> >> > onto the new drive. When mounted in a USB casing the new drive

> >> > functions fine, and all the files in the new drive are accessible.

> >> > However the laptop will not boot from it.

>

> >> > I have tried running the Windows Console, and repairing the W2K

> >> > installation, I have tried copying NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files from

> >> > the original drive. I have checked the BOOT.INI file, and can't spot

> >> > anything untoward there.

>

> >> > I have found various techniques on the net, that require the use of a

> >> > laptop drive which I don't have. So those techniques are not available

> >> > to me. As far as I can tell the Ghost copying process has copied the

> >> > NTLDR and NDETECT.COM files and yet it still says the file is missing.

> >> > I can only assume at this stage that the MBR and/or the BOOT.INI file

> >> > are pointing to the wrong place, but I am unsure how to verify whether

> >> > or not this is the case and how to correct them is they are wrong.

>

> >> > I have access to:

>

> >> > USB drive case, for 2.5" ATA drives.

> >> > The laptop, which has a DVD-ROM drive, but no floppy drive.

> >> > A PC, also with a DVD+/-RW drive, but no floppy drive.

>

> >> > What am I likely doing wrong?

> >> > How can I more fully diagnose what is actually happening?

>

> >> > Cheers

>

> >> The boot sequence goes roughly like this:

>

> >> 1. The BIOS launches the code located in the MBR (Master Boot Record).

> >> 2. The MBR code invokes ntldr.

> >> 3. NTLDR processes boot.ini.

>

> >> Since the error message reports "Missing ntldr", there is no point in

> >> examining boot.ini.

>

> >> I can think of two reasons why you might get this error message:

> >> a) The MBR is incorrect. An easy way to fix it is to boot the

> >> machine with a Win98 boot disk (http://www.bootdisk.com),

> >> then to run this command: fdisk /mbr.

> >> b) The disk geometry (Cylinder/Head/Sector) is incorrect.

> >> To fix this you would need to compare the old and the

> >> new setting on a desktop PC because few laptop BIOSs

> >> have a facility to adjust these parameters. You would

> >> also need an adapter to connect your 2.5" disk to a

> >> standard ribbon cable.

>

> >> Until you get this problem resolved, you could probably boot

> >> the machine with a Win2000 boot diskette or CD. Post again

> >> if you need instructions on how to make one.- Hide quoted text -

>

> >> - Show quoted text -

>

> > I have managed to get a hold of a floppy drive module for the laptop,

> > so that's a new option open to me if needs be.

>

> > Reading your reply makes sense. I have just run an "Ultimate Boot CD 4

> > Win", which has various drive tools on it. One of which stated that

> > there was a problem with the drive geometry, and went on further to

> > say that it was probably an incorrect figure for the number of heads.

>

> > How do I ascertain the correct geometry for the new drive? And what do

> > I need to change to make this work? The laptop BIOS has precious

> > little helpful options in it, and certainly nothing that looks useful

> > with regards to the hard drive.

>

> I know of two ways to obtain the correct drive geometry:

> - Read it off the disk label

> - Get a desktop BIOS to report it to you.

> The only way I have ever been able to change a drive geometry

> is by using a desktop PC with a halfway intelligent BIOS. After

> changing it, you would need to re-image the disk.

So let me try and get this straight...

The MBR contains some code, a bootstrap code if you will. Just enough

code to read some specific sectors off the disk.

These sectors will contain the NTLDR file. This again is some code,

but more complex and will read the BOOT.INI file.

The MBR code will have within it some drive geometry information

contained within it, to ensure it reads the sectors containing NTLDR.

I presume it reads the sectors, and the NTLDR file is fingerprinted

somehow so that the MBR code knows it has found it. If it doesn't it

displays the message I have been seeing.

Mounting the drive through UBCD4Win, I am able to read the new drive

and all the contents perfectly, because the incorrect MBR drive

geometry values are not a factor?

December 11, 2007

Re: Laptop HD upgrade, NTLDR is Missing!!

"Stephen" <srmoll@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:5919d84e-5c54-4816-8ec8-0d0e84b47ffc@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

> On 11 Dec, 20:36, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I....@fly.com> wrote:

>> "Stephen" <srm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>>

>> news:5b80086c-ed4b-4faa-9057-3045a73eb835@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>>

>> > On 11 Dec, 17:23, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I....@fly.com> wrote:

>> >> "Stephen" <srm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>>

>> >>news:ae64686c-a990-4c50-bd78-06be1ee73746@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>>

>> >> >I have a Compaq Evo N600c laptop, with Windows 2000 Pro.

>>

>> >> > The existing 30GB HD gave me a scare the other day when the machine

>> >> > started and wanted to scan the drive for errors. It had previously

>> >> > shutdown normally. The scan showed 32K of bad sectors, so I thought

>> >> > it

>> >> > time to replace it. The original drive was a Hitachi Travelstar, but

>> >> > I

>> >> > could get an identical new one, so I got a Hitachi Travelstar 60GB

>> >> > drive instead.

>>

>> >> > A sector-by-sector copy was taken using Ghost 8.5, and this was put

>> >> > onto the new drive. When mounted in a USB casing the new drive

>> >> > functions fine, and all the files in the new drive are accessible.

>> >> > However the laptop will not boot from it.

>>

>> >> > I have tried running the Windows Console, and repairing the W2K

>> >> > installation, I have tried copying NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files from

>> >> > the original drive. I have checked the BOOT.INI file, and can't spot

>> >> > anything untoward there.

>>

>> >> > I have found various techniques on the net, that require the use of

>> >> > a

>> >> > laptop drive which I don't have. So those techniques are not

>> >> > available

>> >> > to me. As far as I can tell the Ghost copying process has copied the

>> >> > NTLDR and NDETECT.COM files and yet it still says the file is

>> >> > missing.

>> >> > I can only assume at this stage that the MBR and/or the BOOT.INI

>> >> > file

>> >> > are pointing to the wrong place, but I am unsure how to verify

>> >> > whether

>> >> > or not this is the case and how to correct them is they are wrong.

>>

>> >> > I have access to:

>>

>> >> > USB drive case, for 2.5" ATA drives.

>> >> > The laptop, which has a DVD-ROM drive, but no floppy drive.

>> >> > A PC, also with a DVD+/-RW drive, but no floppy drive.

>>

>> >> > What am I likely doing wrong?

>> >> > How can I more fully diagnose what is actually happening?

>>

>> >> > Cheers

>>

>> >> The boot sequence goes roughly like this:

>>

>> >> 1. The BIOS launches the code located in the MBR (Master Boot Record).

>> >> 2. The MBR code invokes ntldr.

>> >> 3. NTLDR processes boot.ini.

>>

>> >> Since the error message reports "Missing ntldr", there is no point in

>> >> examining boot.ini.

>>

>> >> I can think of two reasons why you might get this error message:

>> >> a) The MBR is incorrect. An easy way to fix it is to boot the

>> >> machine with a Win98 boot disk (http://www.bootdisk.com),

>> >> then to run this command: fdisk /mbr.

>> >> b) The disk geometry (Cylinder/Head/Sector) is incorrect.

>> >> To fix this you would need to compare the old and the

>> >> new setting on a desktop PC because few laptop BIOSs

>> >> have a facility to adjust these parameters. You would

>> >> also need an adapter to connect your 2.5" disk to a

>> >> standard ribbon cable.

>>

>> >> Until you get this problem resolved, you could probably boot

>> >> the machine with a Win2000 boot diskette or CD. Post again

>> >> if you need instructions on how to make one.- Hide quoted text -

>>

>> >> - Show quoted text -

>>

>> > I have managed to get a hold of a floppy drive module for the laptop,

>> > so that's a new option open to me if needs be.

>>

>> > Reading your reply makes sense. I have just run an "Ultimate Boot CD 4

>> > Win", which has various drive tools on it. One of which stated that

>> > there was a problem with the drive geometry, and went on further to

>> > say that it was probably an incorrect figure for the number of heads.

>>

>> > How do I ascertain the correct geometry for the new drive? And what do

>> > I need to change to make this work? The laptop BIOS has precious

>> > little helpful options in it, and certainly nothing that looks useful

>> > with regards to the hard drive.

>>

>> I know of two ways to obtain the correct drive geometry:

>> - Read it off the disk label

>> - Get a desktop BIOS to report it to you.

>> The only way I have ever been able to change a drive geometry

>> is by using a desktop PC with a halfway intelligent BIOS. After

>> changing it, you would need to re-image the disk.

>

> So let me try and get this straight...

>

> The MBR contains some code, a bootstrap code if you will. Just enough

> code to read some specific sectors off the disk.

> These sectors will contain the NTLDR file. This again is some code,

> but more complex and will read the BOOT.INI file.

>

> The MBR code will have within it some drive geometry information

> contained within it, to ensure it reads the sectors containing NTLDR.

> I presume it reads the sectors, and the NTLDR file is fingerprinted

> somehow so that the MBR code knows it has found it. If it doesn't it

> displays the message I have been seeing.

>

> Mounting the drive through UBCD4Win, I am able to read the new drive

> and all the contents perfectly, because the incorrect MBR drive

> geometry values are not a factor?

>

You're close but not entirely correct. On the other hand my own

knowledge is not complete either.

You write "The MBR contains some code, a bootstrap code if you

will. Just enough code to read some specific sectors off the disk."

Yes, the MBR contains some code which is sufficient to read ntldr.

No, this file does not have to be in a specific place like to old DOS

boot files. The MBR code will find it regardless.

You write "The MBR code will have within it some drive geometry

information contained within it, to ensure it reads the sectors containing

NTLDR. I presume it reads the sectors, and the NTLDR file is

fingerprinted somehow so that the MBR code knows it has found it."

This is the part I know least about. Here are the two things I do know:

- If the information on your disk is recorded with an incorrect

geometry setting then the machine won't boot.

- In such a case my trusty old copy of PQMagic (a fierce competitor

to Ghost) would warn me about the discrepancy and tell me not to

store any information on the disk, to avoid serious corruption.

In other words, PQMagic tells me that a disk with a drive geometry

that does not match the BIOS settings is bad news.

I note that Acronis, which I use these days to manipulate partitions,

does not issue any warnings.

I have had several laptops with problems similar to yours. I was

able to fix all of them by performing the imaging process on a desktop

PC where I could control the disk geometry.

I suspect that other Ghost users must have had the same problem.

If so then the Ghost FAQs would mention it.

December 11, 2007

Re: Laptop HD upgrade, NTLDR is Missing!!

"Stephen" <srmoll@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:5919d84e-5c54-4816-8ec8-0d0e84b47ffc@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

> On 11 Dec, 20:36, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I....@fly.com> wrote:

>> "Stephen" <srm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>>

>> news:5b80086c-ed4b-4faa-9057-3045a73eb835@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>>

>> > On 11 Dec, 17:23, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I....@fly.com> wrote:

>> >> "Stephen" <srm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>>

>> >>news:ae64686c-a990-4c50-bd78-06be1ee73746@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>>

>> >> >I have a Compaq Evo N600c laptop, with Windows 2000 Pro.

>>

>> >> > The existing 30GB HD gave me a scare the other day when the machine

>> >> > started and wanted to scan the drive for errors. It had previously

>> >> > shutdown normally. The scan showed 32K of bad sectors, so I thought

>> >> > it

>> >> > time to replace it. The original drive was a Hitachi Travelstar, but

>> >> > I

>> >> > could get an identical new one, so I got a Hitachi Travelstar 60GB

>> >> > drive instead.

>>

>> >> > A sector-by-sector copy was taken using Ghost 8.5, and this was put

>> >> > onto the new drive. When mounted in a USB casing the new drive

>> >> > functions fine, and all the files in the new drive are accessible.

>> >> > However the laptop will not boot from it.

>>

>> >> > I have tried running the Windows Console, and repairing the W2K

>> >> > installation, I have tried copying NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files from

>> >> > the original drive. I have checked the BOOT.INI file, and can't spot

>> >> > anything untoward there.

>>

>> >> > I have found various techniques on the net, that require the use of

>> >> > a

>> >> > laptop drive which I don't have. So those techniques are not

>> >> > available

>> >> > to me. As far as I can tell the Ghost copying process has copied the

>> >> > NTLDR and NDETECT.COM files and yet it still says the file is

>> >> > missing.

>> >> > I can only assume at this stage that the MBR and/or the BOOT.INI

>> >> > file

>> >> > are pointing to the wrong place, but I am unsure how to verify

>> >> > whether

>> >> > or not this is the case and how to correct them is they are wrong.

>>

>> >> > I have access to:

>>

>> >> > USB drive case, for 2.5" ATA drives.

>> >> > The laptop, which has a DVD-ROM drive, but no floppy drive.

>> >> > A PC, also with a DVD+/-RW drive, but no floppy drive.

>>

>> >> > What am I likely doing wrong?

>> >> > How can I more fully diagnose what is actually happening?

>>

>> >> > Cheers

>>

>> >> The boot sequence goes roughly like this:

>>

>> >> 1. The BIOS launches the code located in the MBR (Master Boot Record).

>> >> 2. The MBR code invokes ntldr.

>> >> 3. NTLDR processes boot.ini.

>>

>> >> Since the error message reports "Missing ntldr", there is no point in

>> >> examining boot.ini.

>>

>> >> I can think of two reasons why you might get this error message:

>> >> a) The MBR is incorrect. An easy way to fix it is to boot the

>> >> machine with a Win98 boot disk (http://www.bootdisk.com),

>> >> then to run this command: fdisk /mbr.

>> >> b) The disk geometry (Cylinder/Head/Sector) is incorrect.

>> >> To fix this you would need to compare the old and the

>> >> new setting on a desktop PC because few laptop BIOSs

>> >> have a facility to adjust these parameters. You would

>> >> also need an adapter to connect your 2.5" disk to a

>> >> standard ribbon cable.

>>

>> >> Until you get this problem resolved, you could probably boot

>> >> the machine with a Win2000 boot diskette or CD. Post again

>> >> if you need instructions on how to make one.- Hide quoted text -

>>

>> >> - Show quoted text -

>>

>> > I have managed to get a hold of a floppy drive module for the laptop,

>> > so that's a new option open to me if needs be.

>>

>> > Reading your reply makes sense. I have just run an "Ultimate Boot CD 4

>> > Win", which has various drive tools on it. One of which stated that

>> > there was a problem with the drive geometry, and went on further to

>> > say that it was probably an incorrect figure for the number of heads.

>>

>> > How do I ascertain the correct geometry for the new drive? And what do

>> > I need to change to make this work? The laptop BIOS has precious

>> > little helpful options in it, and certainly nothing that looks useful

>> > with regards to the hard drive.

>>

>> I know of two ways to obtain the correct drive geometry:

>> - Read it off the disk label

>> - Get a desktop BIOS to report it to you.

>> The only way I have ever been able to change a drive geometry

>> is by using a desktop PC with a halfway intelligent BIOS. After

>> changing it, you would need to re-image the disk.

>

> So let me try and get this straight...

>

> The MBR contains some code, a bootstrap code if you will. Just enough

> code to read some specific sectors off the disk.

> These sectors will contain the NTLDR file. This again is some code,

> but more complex and will read the BOOT.INI file.

>

> The MBR code will have within it some drive geometry information

> contained within it, to ensure it reads the sectors containing NTLDR.

> I presume it reads the sectors, and the NTLDR file is fingerprinted

> somehow so that the MBR code knows it has found it. If it doesn't it

> displays the message I have been seeing.

>

> Mounting the drive through UBCD4Win, I am able to read the new drive

> and all the contents perfectly, because the incorrect MBR drive

> geometry values are not a factor?

>

It just so happens that I have a laptop here whose partly corrupted

disk I imaged prior to running chkdsk on it. The image won't boot -

in my case the error message is "No operating system". Tomorrow

I shall check out the drive geometry and repeat the imaging process.

Watch this spot!

December 12, 2007

Re: Laptop HD upgrade, NTLDR is Missing!!

"Stephen" <srmoll@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:5b80086c-ed4b-4faa-9057-3045a73eb835@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

> Reading your reply makes sense. I have just run an "Ultimate Boot CD 4

> Win", which has various drive tools on it. One of which stated that

> there was a problem with the drive geometry, and went on further to

> say that it was probably an incorrect figure for the number of heads.

>

> How do I ascertain the correct geometry for the new drive?

The "correct" geometry is the one that your laptop's BIOS wants to use.

There is no specific geometry for the hard disk that is more correct than

another, as it will change depending on what machine the hard disk is

installed in.

You didn't say exactly how you did the cloning, but mashed up geometry

parameters can occur with IBM/Lenovo and HP/Compaq laptops if you are not

scrupulously careful about how you do the cloning. You might be able to

glean more information about this phenomenon in this thread:

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1128609708/14#14

December 12, 2007

Re: Laptop HD upgrade, NTLDR is Missing!!

On 11 Dec, 16:25, Stephen <srm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a Compaq Evo N600c laptop, with Windows 2000 Pro.

>

> The existing 30GB HD gave me a scare the other day when the machine

> started and wanted to scan the drive for errors. It had previously

> shutdown normally. The scan showed 32K of bad sectors, so I thought it

> time to replace it. The original drive was a Hitachi Travelstar, but I

> could get an identical new one, so I got a Hitachi Travelstar 60GB

> drive instead.

>

> A sector-by-sector copy was taken using Ghost 8.5, and this was put

> onto the new drive. When mounted in a USB casing the new drive

> functions fine, and all the files in the new drive are accessible.

> However the laptop will not boot from it.

>

> I have tried running the Windows Console, and repairing the W2K

> installation, I have tried copying NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files from

> the original drive. I have checked the BOOT.INI file, and can't spot

> anything untoward there.

>

> I have found various techniques on the net, that require the use of a

> laptop drive which I don't have. So those techniques are not available

> to me. As far as I can tell the Ghost copying process has copied the

> NTLDR and NDETECT.COM files and yet it still says the file is missing.

> I can only assume at this stage that the MBR and/or the BOOT.INI file

> are pointing to the wrong place, but I am unsure how to verify whether

> or not this is the case and how to correct them is they are wrong.

>

> I have access to:

>

> USB drive case, for 2.5" ATA drives.

> The laptop, which has a DVD-ROM drive, but no floppy drive.

> A PC, also with a DVD+/-RW drive, but no floppy drive.

>

> What am I likely doing wrong?

> How can I more fully diagnose what is actually happening?

>

> Cheers

Good news everyone, I've managed it. Based on the various comments and

ideas, I came to the conclusion that the best thing was probably to

use the actually laptop to create the clone, rather than a desktop

machine, as I had been doing. The desktop system uses Ghost 8.5, but

what I actually used was one of the utilities on the UBCD4Win disk

called RawCopy. The old drive was attached to the laptop using a USB-

IDE converter, and the new drive installed properly.

The most worrying part was determining precisely which was Drive 0 and

which was Drive 1, as these were the only references available in the

RawCopy program to select the source and destination drives. The

Windows installation on the UBCD wasn't much help as it had the

internal drive C at location "0", and the USB attached one at location

"0(0)"! One of the MBR tools eventually showed that the USB drive was

0 and the internal was 1, and I took a leap and set the copy off over

night, as it was going to take 8 hours over the USB 1.1 port on the

laptop.

This morning, it rebooted on the new drive perfectly, apart from

Windows 2000 faffing around saying new drivers found for this that and

the other.

Just used Partition Magic to extend the 29GB partition to occupy the

whole disk, which took a while as it had to realign everything because

the cluster size went up from 16k to 32k. Rebooted again and now

everything is hunky dorey!! ;-)

So if anyone is interested:

I used UBCD4Win v3.1, containing RawCopy from Roadkil.net.

Then I used Partition Magic.

December 12, 2007

Re: Laptop HD upgrade, NTLDR is Missing!!

"Stephen" <srmoll@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:32508411-2e78-4839-bd23-0f57c91b96b5@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...

> On 11 Dec, 16:25, Stephen <srm...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I have a Compaq Evo N600c laptop, with Windows 2000 Pro.

>>

>> The existing 30GB HD gave me a scare the other day when the machine

>> started and wanted to scan the drive for errors. It had previously

>> shutdown normally. The scan showed 32K of bad sectors, so I thought it

>> time to replace it. The original drive was a Hitachi Travelstar, but I

>> could get an identical new one, so I got a Hitachi Travelstar 60GB

>> drive instead.

>>

>> A sector-by-sector copy was taken using Ghost 8.5, and this was put

>> onto the new drive. When mounted in a USB casing the new drive

>> functions fine, and all the files in the new drive are accessible.

>> However the laptop will not boot from it.

>>

>> I have tried running the Windows Console, and repairing the W2K

>> installation, I have tried copying NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files from

>> the original drive. I have checked the BOOT.INI file, and can't spot

>> anything untoward there.

>>

>> I have found various techniques on the net, that require the use of a

>> laptop drive which I don't have. So those techniques are not available

>> to me. As far as I can tell the Ghost copying process has copied the

>> NTLDR and NDETECT.COM files and yet it still says the file is missing.

>> I can only assume at this stage that the MBR and/or the BOOT.INI file

>> are pointing to the wrong place, but I am unsure how to verify whether

>> or not this is the case and how to correct them is they are wrong.

>>

>> I have access to:

>>

>> USB drive case, for 2.5" ATA drives.

>> The laptop, which has a DVD-ROM drive, but no floppy drive.

>> A PC, also with a DVD+/-RW drive, but no floppy drive.

>>

>> What am I likely doing wrong?

>> How can I more fully diagnose what is actually happening?

>>

>> Cheers

>

> Good news everyone, I've managed it. Based on the various comments and

> ideas, I came to the conclusion that the best thing was probably to

> use the actually laptop to create the clone, rather than a desktop

> machine, as I had been doing. The desktop system uses Ghost 8.5, but

> what I actually used was one of the utilities on the UBCD4Win disk

> called RawCopy. The old drive was attached to the laptop using a USB-

> IDE converter, and the new drive installed properly.

>

> The most worrying part was determining precisely which was Drive 0 and

> which was Drive 1, as these were the only references available in the

> RawCopy program to select the source and destination drives. The

> Windows installation on the UBCD wasn't much help as it had the

> internal drive C at location "0", and the USB attached one at location

> "0(0)"! One of the MBR tools eventually showed that the USB drive was

> 0 and the internal was 1, and I took a leap and set the copy off over

> night, as it was going to take 8 hours over the USB 1.1 port on the

> laptop.

>

> This morning, it rebooted on the new drive perfectly, apart from

> Windows 2000 faffing around saying new drivers found for this that and

> the other.

>

> Just used Partition Magic to extend the 29GB partition to occupy the

> whole disk, which took a while as it had to realign everything because

> the cluster size went up from 16k to 32k. Rebooted again and now

> everything is hunky dorey!! ;-)

>

> So if anyone is interested:

>

> I used UBCD4Win v3.1, containing RawCopy from Roadkil.net.

> Then I used Partition Magic.

>

Congratulations! Note that the cloning method is not really

important. What counts is that the disk gets populated under

the same geometry settings as the one used by the laptop.

In your case you used a desktop with a different setting (which

you did not disclose until the very end), hence your problems.

December 12, 2007

Re: Laptop HD upgrade, NTLDR is Missing!!

On 12 Dec, 13:30, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I....@fly.com> wrote:

> "Stephen" <srm...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>

> news:32508411-2e78-4839-bd23-0f57c91b96b5@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...

>

> > On 11 Dec, 16:25, Stephen <srm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> I have a Compaq Evo N600c laptop, with Windows 2000 Pro.

>

> >> The existing 30GB HD gave me a scare the other day when the machine

> >> started and wanted to scan the drive for errors. It had previously

> >> shutdown normally. The scan showed 32K of bad sectors, so I thought it

> >> time to replace it. The original drive was a Hitachi Travelstar, but I

> >> could get an identical new one, so I got a Hitachi Travelstar 60GB

> >> drive instead.

>

> >> A sector-by-sector copy was taken using Ghost 8.5, and this was put

> >> onto the new drive. When mounted in a USB casing the new drive

> >> functions fine, and all the files in the new drive are accessible.

> >> However the laptop will not boot from it.

>

> >> I have tried running the Windows Console, and repairing the W2K

> >> installation, I have tried copying NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM files from

> >> the original drive. I have checked the BOOT.INI file, and can't spot

> >> anything untoward there.

>

> >> I have found various techniques on the net, that require the use of a

> >> laptop drive which I don't have. So those techniques are not available

> >> to me. As far as I can tell the Ghost copying process has copied the

> >> NTLDR and NDETECT.COM files and yet it still says the file is missing.

> >> I can only assume at this stage that the MBR and/or the BOOT.INI file

> >> are pointing to the wrong place, but I am unsure how to verify whether

> >> or not this is the case and how to correct them is they are wrong.

>

> >> I have access to:

>

> >> USB drive case, for 2.5" ATA drives.

> >> The laptop, which has a DVD-ROM drive, but no floppy drive.

> >> A PC, also with a DVD+/-RW drive, but no floppy drive.

>

> >> What am I likely doing wrong?

> >> How can I more fully diagnose what is actually happening?

>

> >> Cheers

>

> > Good news everyone, I've managed it. Based on the various comments and

> > ideas, I came to the conclusion that the best thing was probably to

> > use the actually laptop to create the clone, rather than a desktop

> > machine, as I had been doing. The desktop system uses Ghost 8.5, but

> > what I actually used was one of the utilities on the UBCD4Win disk

> > called RawCopy. The old drive was attached to the laptop using a USB-

> > IDE converter, and the new drive installed properly.

>

> > The most worrying part was determining precisely which was Drive 0 and

> > which was Drive 1, as these were the only references available in the

> > RawCopy program to select the source and destination drives. The

> > Windows installation on the UBCD wasn't much help as it had the

> > internal drive C at location "0", and the USB attached one at location

> > "0(0)"! One of the MBR tools eventually showed that the USB drive was

> > 0 and the internal was 1, and I took a leap and set the copy off over

> > night, as it was going to take 8 hours over the USB 1.1 port on the

> > laptop.

>

> > This morning, it rebooted on the new drive perfectly, apart from

> > Windows 2000 faffing around saying new drivers found for this that and

> > the other.

>

> > Just used Partition Magic to extend the 29GB partition to occupy the

> > whole disk, which took a while as it had to realign everything because

> > the cluster size went up from 16k to 32k. Rebooted again and now

> > everything is hunky dorey!! ;-)

>

> > So if anyone is interested:

>

> > I used UBCD4Win v3.1, containing RawCopy from Roadkil.net.

> > Then I used Partition Magic.

>

> Congratulations! Note that the cloning method is not really

> important. What counts is that the disk gets populated under

> the same geometry settings as the one used by the laptop.

> In your case you used a desktop with a different setting (which

> you did not disclose until the very end), hence your problems.

Sorry about that. On the plus side I have learnt quite a good deal

from this, thanks to you, and of course the laptop is working fine

with its new drive. In fact I am typing this reply on it now.

Thanks for your help.

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