What an awfull couple of days!

March 1, 2008

It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited

suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I enlisted as

an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly good

HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit of

rummaging.

So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a wonderful

machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your

shoulders for a while now!

I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though, since

I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a

couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly after I

entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest' system

I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a Seasonic

PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few times -

CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in

there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope it

is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.

Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the twin

XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap' when

I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three

days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing it

was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days

before that had stopped completely.

But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas

over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under the

looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

Tony. . .

(sigh!)

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

Tony................. have you tried a shot or two of "Bushmills".

"Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

news:O$bZYAzeIHA.4744@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

> misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited

> suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I enlisted

> as

> an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly

> good

> HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit

> of

> rummaging.

>

> So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a wonderful

> machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your

> shoulders for a while now!

>

> I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though,

> since

> I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a

> couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly after

> I

> entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest' system

> I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a Seasonic

> PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few times -

> CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in

> there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope it

> is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.

>

> Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the

> twin

> XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap'

> when

> I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three

> days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing

> it

> was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days

> before that had stopped completely.

>

> But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas

> over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under the

> looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

>

> Tony. . .

>

> (sigh!)

>

March 1, 2008

RE: What an awfull couple of days!

Tony,

Sorry to hear that.

PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.

For what you describe it is not OS related.

First suspect is the PSU but...

Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.

Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that, uh?) and a

copy of memtest86.

Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a couple of hours.

Then run memtest.

Best of luck.

Carlos

PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)

"Tony Sperling" wrote:

> It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

> misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited

> suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I enlisted as

> an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly good

> HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit of

> rummaging.

>

> So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a wonderful

> machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your

> shoulders for a while now!

>

> I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though, since

> I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a

> couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly after I

> entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest' system

> I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a Seasonic

> PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few times -

> CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in

> there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope it

> is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.

>

> Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the twin

> XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap' when

> I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three

> days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing it

> was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days

> before that had stopped completely.

>

> But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas

> over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under the

> looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

>

> Tony. . .

>

> (sigh!)

>

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

I must confess, that one is available here - but I didn't try it yet. I am

very much attracted to the Irish Sea varieties Talisker, Laphroigh, Caol

Isla - the latter of which I'll immerse my self into tomorrow. But not in a

'tarnished' mood!

But I'll put a note down for Bushmill's, thank you!

Tony. . .

"Kue2" <Kue2@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:uNZPpWzeIHA.4144@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> Tony................. have you tried a shot or two of "Bushmills".

>

> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> news:O$bZYAzeIHA.4744@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited

> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

enlisted

> > as

> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly

> > good

> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit

> > of

> > rummaging.

> >

> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

wonderful

> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your

> > shoulders for a while now!

> >

> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though,

> > since

> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a

> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

after

> > I

> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

system

> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

Seasonic

> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

times -

> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in

> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope

it

> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.

> >

> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the

> > twin

> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap'

> > when

> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three

> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing

> > it

> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days

> > before that had stopped completely.

> >

> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas

> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

the

> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

> >

> > Tony. . .

> >

> > (sigh!)

> >

>

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

This is good thinking, Carlos!

Tomorrow, I'll rip it of expendable devices and dig out that old UTBCD -

(UltimateBootCD!) The biggest trouble is that I am not able to keep (it) up

for any lenght of time that I can learn what might be happening, which

suggests the PSU, I think?

Memory would likely throw crashes and BSOD's but I didn't have a single one

of those - the machine just turns itself off in complete silence. I am

thinking of naming it 'Marvin' (Marvin - the Paranoid Android, being one of

my heroe's!) in an effort to actually accept the behavior.

Tony. . .

"Carlos" <Carlos@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:D6F25A11-1478-4ADB-83FF-EF54E2DC688D@microsoft.com...

> Tony,

> Sorry to hear that.

> PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.

> For what you describe it is not OS related.

> First suspect is the PSU but...

> Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.

> Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that, uh?) and a

> copy of memtest86.

> Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a couple of

hours.

> Then run memtest.

> Best of luck.

> Carlos

> PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)

>

> "Tony Sperling" wrote:

>

> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited

> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

enlisted as

> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly

good

> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit

of

> > rummaging.

> >

> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

wonderful

> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your

> > shoulders for a while now!

> >

> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though,

since

> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a

> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

after I

> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

system

> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

Seasonic

> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

times -

> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in

> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope

it

> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.

> >

> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the

twin

> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap'

when

> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three

> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing

it

> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days

> > before that had stopped completely.

> >

> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas

> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

the

> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

> >

> > Tony. . .

> >

> > (sigh!)

> >

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the heaviest

load). I would investigate the mobo.

"Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

news:O$bZYAzeIHA.4744@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

> misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited

> suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I enlisted

> as

> an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly

> good

> HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit

> of

> rummaging.

>

> So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a wonderful

> machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your

> shoulders for a while now!

>

> I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though,

> since

> I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a

> couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly after

> I

> entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest' system

> I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a Seasonic

> PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few times -

> CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in

> there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope it

> is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.

>

> Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the

> twin

> XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap'

> when

> I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three

> days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing

> it

> was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days

> before that had stopped completely.

>

> But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas

> over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under the

> looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

>

> Tony. . .

>

> (sigh!)

>

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

This is my problem - the Seasonic is extremely good quality. It's of the

kind you look and see the quality of a gem. That doesn't prevent it from

having a bad component, but this component could just as easily have a point

of weakness that is triggered by something else as it could be having a

'load' problem on it's own? The same goes for the motherboard. I think this

is a troubleshooters nightmare if you are not in a position where you have

the equipment to test your way methodically through all the sub-systems.

But - I am beginning to realize that I am a bit lucky as well, because I am

about to order a very expensive monitor from the people who build the

machine according to my specifications. I am certainly not going to do that

before I have seen how they handle this critical mission - and this puts me

in a situation where I can let them get a 'whif' of my intensions. After

all, if it's the motherboard, it will be a borderline warranty affair - if

it's the PSU there is no question. I want to make sure that they will not

jump at the chance to rip me off for a new board while swapping out the PSU

from one of their demo machines! Or something?

Yes, I do agree. This could well be the board, but I will be much less

likely to uncover that myself, if it is. I think for the moment, that

Carlo's idea of stripping it down, see'ing if it has any effect at all has

the best kind of methodology (is that the word?) I can hope for. If it

doesn't reveal anything - then I will be much more likely to throw it at the

motherboard. Right now, it'll be blowing in the wind.

Tony. . .

"Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:0930DE69-95F1-4AE1-B12E-9B188E5BC0C8@microsoft.com...

> The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the heaviest

> load). I would investigate the mobo.

>

> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> news:O$bZYAzeIHA.4744@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited

> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

enlisted

> > as

> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly

> > good

> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a bit

> > of

> > rummaging.

> >

> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

wonderful

> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over your

> > shoulders for a while now!

> >

> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though,

> > since

> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for a

> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

after

> > I

> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

system

> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

Seasonic

> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

times -

> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day in

> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope

it

> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.

> >

> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the

> > twin

> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap'

> > when

> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or three

> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely. Removing

> > it

> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few days

> > before that had stopped completely.

> >

> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the carcas

> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

the

> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

> >

> > Tony. . .

> >

> > (sigh!)

> >

>

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

PSU, or equally likely, a failing "something" that is shorting to ground.

That could be any of your cards, or even a bad capacitor. So pull everything

you can and if you have the ability to plug an old, but known good, video

into it (or it has an onboard), that would be good.

--

Charlie.

http://msmvps.com/xperts64

http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

"Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

news:eIbo1tzeIHA.5348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> This is good thinking, Carlos!

>

> Tomorrow, I'll rip it of expendable devices and dig out that old UTBCD -

> (UltimateBootCD!) The biggest trouble is that I am not able to keep (it)

> up

> for any lenght of time that I can learn what might be happening, which

> suggests the PSU, I think?

>

> Memory would likely throw crashes and BSOD's but I didn't have a single

> one

> of those - the machine just turns itself off in complete silence. I am

> thinking of naming it 'Marvin' (Marvin - the Paranoid Android, being one

> of

> my heroe's!) in an effort to actually accept the behavior.

>

> Tony. . .

>

> "Carlos" <Carlos@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> news:D6F25A11-1478-4ADB-83FF-EF54E2DC688D@microsoft.com...

>> Tony,

>> Sorry to hear that.

>> PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.

>> For what you describe it is not OS related.

>> First suspect is the PSU but...

>> Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.

>> Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that, uh?) and

>> a

>> copy of memtest86.

>> Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a couple of

> hours.

>> Then run memtest.

>> Best of luck.

>> Carlos

>> PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)

>>

>> "Tony Sperling" wrote:

>>

>> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

>> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited

>> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

> enlisted as

>> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly

> good

>> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a

>> > bit

> of

>> > rummaging.

>> >

>> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

> wonderful

>> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over

>> > your

>> > shoulders for a while now!

>> >

>> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though,

> since

>> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for

>> > a

>> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

> after I

>> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

> system

>> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

> Seasonic

>> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

> times -

>> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day

>> > in

>> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope

> it

>> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.

>> >

>> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the

> twin

>> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap'

> when

>> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or

>> > three

>> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.

>> > Removing

> it

>> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few

>> > days

>> > before that had stopped completely.

>> >

>> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the

>> > carcas

>> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

> the

>> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

>> >

>> > Tony. . .

>> >

>> > (sigh!)

>> >

>

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

Seasonic are good. Very good. but as you say, it could still be that.

However, I'm more inclined to think it's a bad capacitor, shorting to

ground. The reason is that it takes a little time (as it starts to warm up)

before it fails. That capacitor could be on the mobo, in the PSU, or even on

a plug in card.

--

Charlie.

http://msmvps.com/xperts64

http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

"Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

news:%23E$qFh0eIHA.1132@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> This is my problem - the Seasonic is extremely good quality. It's of the

> kind you look and see the quality of a gem. That doesn't prevent it from

> having a bad component, but this component could just as easily have a

> point

> of weakness that is triggered by something else as it could be having a

> 'load' problem on it's own? The same goes for the motherboard. I think

> this

> is a troubleshooters nightmare if you are not in a position where you have

> the equipment to test your way methodically through all the sub-systems.

>

> But - I am beginning to realize that I am a bit lucky as well, because I

> am

> about to order a very expensive monitor from the people who build the

> machine according to my specifications. I am certainly not going to do

> that

> before I have seen how they handle this critical mission - and this puts

> me

> in a situation where I can let them get a 'whif' of my intensions. After

> all, if it's the motherboard, it will be a borderline warranty affair - if

> it's the PSU there is no question. I want to make sure that they will not

> jump at the chance to rip me off for a new board while swapping out the

> PSU

> from one of their demo machines! Or something?

>

> Yes, I do agree. This could well be the board, but I will be much less

> likely to uncover that myself, if it is. I think for the moment, that

> Carlo's idea of stripping it down, see'ing if it has any effect at all has

> the best kind of methodology (is that the word?) I can hope for. If it

> doesn't reveal anything - then I will be much more likely to throw it at

> the

> motherboard. Right now, it'll be blowing in the wind.

>

> Tony. . .

>

> "Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message

> news:0930DE69-95F1-4AE1-B12E-9B188E5BC0C8@microsoft.com...

>> The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the heaviest

>> load). I would investigate the mobo.

>>

>> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

>> news:O$bZYAzeIHA.4744@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

>> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system commited

>> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

> enlisted

>> > as

>> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a perfectly

>> > good

>> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a

>> > bit

>> > of

>> > rummaging.

>> >

>> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

> wonderful

>> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over

>> > your

>> > shoulders for a while now!

>> >

>> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system, though,

>> > since

>> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run for

>> > a

>> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

> after

>> > I

>> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

> system

>> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

> Seasonic

>> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

> times -

>> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day

>> > in

>> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I hope

> it

>> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.

>> >

>> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on the

>> > twin

>> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool 'AI-Nap'

>> > when

>> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or

>> > three

>> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.

>> > Removing

>> > it

>> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few

>> > days

>> > before that had stopped completely.

>> >

>> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the

>> > carcas

>> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

> the

>> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

>> >

>> > Tony. . .

>> >

>> > (sigh!)

>> >

>>

>

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

Yes, these are good points - I even remember Tom's Hardware had an article

once about searching out bad capacitors, I'll try and see if I can find that

one, and hopefully isolate the problem somewhat. It's allways nice to hand

it over to the shop and tell them to look for something specific - it'll

usually impress them if you are right, and they'll be looking hard for

something else on their own. Maybe. . .?

Tony. . .

"Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message

news:FFDFEC2E-7749-4651-9F44-E6F808A11884@microsoft.com...

> Seasonic are good. Very good. but as you say, it could still be that.

> However, I'm more inclined to think it's a bad capacitor, shorting to

> ground. The reason is that it takes a little time (as it starts to warm

up)

> before it fails. That capacitor could be on the mobo, in the PSU, or even

on

> a plug in card.

>

> --

> Charlie.

> http://msmvps.com/xperts64

> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

>

> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> news:%23E$qFh0eIHA.1132@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> > This is my problem - the Seasonic is extremely good quality. It's of the

> > kind you look and see the quality of a gem. That doesn't prevent it from

> > having a bad component, but this component could just as easily have a

> > point

> > of weakness that is triggered by something else as it could be having a

> > 'load' problem on it's own? The same goes for the motherboard. I think

> > this

> > is a troubleshooters nightmare if you are not in a position where you

have

> > the equipment to test your way methodically through all the sub-systems.

> >

> > But - I am beginning to realize that I am a bit lucky as well, because I

> > am

> > about to order a very expensive monitor from the people who build the

> > machine according to my specifications. I am certainly not going to do

> > that

> > before I have seen how they handle this critical mission - and this puts

> > me

> > in a situation where I can let them get a 'whif' of my intensions. After

> > all, if it's the motherboard, it will be a borderline warranty affair -

if

> > it's the PSU there is no question. I want to make sure that they will

not

> > jump at the chance to rip me off for a new board while swapping out the

> > PSU

> > from one of their demo machines! Or something?

> >

> > Yes, I do agree. This could well be the board, but I will be much less

> > likely to uncover that myself, if it is. I think for the moment, that

> > Carlo's idea of stripping it down, see'ing if it has any effect at all

has

> > the best kind of methodology (is that the word?) I can hope for. If it

> > doesn't reveal anything - then I will be much more likely to throw it at

> > the

> > motherboard. Right now, it'll be blowing in the wind.

> >

> > Tony. . .

> >

> > "Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message

> > news:0930DE69-95F1-4AE1-B12E-9B188E5BC0C8@microsoft.com...

> >> The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the heaviest

> >> load). I would investigate the mobo.

> >>

> >> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> >> news:O$bZYAzeIHA.4744@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

> >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

commited

> >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

> > enlisted

> >> > as

> >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

perfectly

> >> > good

> >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a

> >> > bit

> >> > of

> >> > rummaging.

> >> >

> >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

> > wonderful

> >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over

> >> > your

> >> > shoulders for a while now!

> >> >

> >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

though,

> >> > since

> >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run

for

> >> > a

> >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

> > after

> >> > I

> >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

> > system

> >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

> > Seasonic

> >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

> > times -

> >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day

> >> > in

> >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

hope

> > it

> >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.

> >> >

> >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on

the

> >> > twin

> >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

'AI-Nap'

> >> > when

> >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or

> >> > three

> >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.

> >> > Removing

> >> > it

> >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few

> >> > days

> >> > before that had stopped completely.

> >> >

> >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the

> >> > carcas

> >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

> > the

> >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

> >> >

> >> > Tony. . .

> >> >

> >> > (sigh!)

> >> >

> >>

> >

>

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

"Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

news:%235F4C63eIHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> Yes, these are good points - I even remember Tom's Hardware had an article

> once about searching out bad capacitors, I'll try and see if I can find

that

> one, and hopefully isolate the problem somewhat. It's allways nice to hand

> it over to the shop and tell them to look for something specific - it'll

> usually impress them if you are right, and they'll be looking hard for

> something else on their own. Maybe. . .?

>

> Tony. . .

>

If it's got bad capacitors, they are very easy to spot...

but if that's the case...get a new mobo.

The labor charge to replace the caps would be more than a new mobo...

not only that even if the known bad caps are replaced,

there will be other bad ones that are either not obvious...

or will fail a little later

> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message

> news:FFDFEC2E-7749-4651-9F44-E6F808A11884@microsoft.com...

> > Seasonic are good. Very good. but as you say, it could still be that.

> > However, I'm more inclined to think it's a bad capacitor, shorting to

> > ground. The reason is that it takes a little time (as it starts to warm

> up)

> > before it fails. That capacitor could be on the mobo, in the PSU, or

even

> on

> > a plug in card.

> >

> > --

> > Charlie.

> > http://msmvps.com/xperts64

> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

> >

> > "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> > news:%23E$qFh0eIHA.1132@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> > > This is my problem - the Seasonic is extremely good quality. It's of

the

> > > kind you look and see the quality of a gem. That doesn't prevent it

from

> > > having a bad component, but this component could just as easily have a

> > > point

> > > of weakness that is triggered by something else as it could be having

a

> > > 'load' problem on it's own? The same goes for the motherboard. I think

> > > this

> > > is a troubleshooters nightmare if you are not in a position where you

> have

> > > the equipment to test your way methodically through all the

sub-systems.

> > >

> > > But - I am beginning to realize that I am a bit lucky as well, because

I

> > > am

> > > about to order a very expensive monitor from the people who build the

> > > machine according to my specifications. I am certainly not going to do

> > > that

> > > before I have seen how they handle this critical mission - and this

puts

> > > me

> > > in a situation where I can let them get a 'whif' of my intensions.

After

> > > all, if it's the motherboard, it will be a borderline warranty

affair -

> if

> > > it's the PSU there is no question. I want to make sure that they will

> not

> > > jump at the chance to rip me off for a new board while swapping out

the

> > > PSU

> > > from one of their demo machines! Or something?

> > >

> > > Yes, I do agree. This could well be the board, but I will be much less

> > > likely to uncover that myself, if it is. I think for the moment, that

> > > Carlo's idea of stripping it down, see'ing if it has any effect at all

> has

> > > the best kind of methodology (is that the word?) I can hope for. If it

> > > doesn't reveal anything - then I will be much more likely to throw it

at

> > > the

> > > motherboard. Right now, it'll be blowing in the wind.

> > >

> > > Tony. . .

> > >

> > > "Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message

> > > news:0930DE69-95F1-4AE1-B12E-9B188E5BC0C8@microsoft.com...

> > >> The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the

heaviest

> > >> load). I would investigate the mobo.

> > >>

> > >> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> > >> news:O$bZYAzeIHA.4744@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> > >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

> > >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

> commited

> > >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

> > > enlisted

> > >> > as

> > >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

> perfectly

> > >> > good

> > >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite

a

> > >> > bit

> > >> > of

> > >> > rummaging.

> > >> >

> > >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

> > > wonderful

> > >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over

> > >> > your

> > >> > shoulders for a while now!

> > >> >

> > >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

> though,

> > >> > since

> > >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run

> for

> > >> > a

> > >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

> > > after

> > >> > I

> > >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

> > > system

> > >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

> > > Seasonic

> > >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

> > > times -

> > >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole

day

> > >> > in

> > >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

> hope

> > > it

> > >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year

warranty.

> > >> >

> > >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on

> the

> > >> > twin

> > >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

> 'AI-Nap'

> > >> > when

> > >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or

> > >> > three

> > >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.

> > >> > Removing

> > >> > it

> > >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few

> > >> > days

> > >> > before that had stopped completely.

> > >> >

> > >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the

> > >> > carcas

> > >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put

under

> > > the

> > >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

> > >> >

> > >> > Tony. . .

> > >> >

> > >> > (sigh!)

> > >> >

> > >>

> > >

> >

>

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

Oh yes, Philo, I agree completely. I wouldn't dream of fixing that - except

maybe on a week-end - as an overture to buying a replacement?

Tony. . .

"philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message

news:%23I%23WHO4eIHA.5164@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>

> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> news:%235F4C63eIHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> > Yes, these are good points - I even remember Tom's Hardware had an

article

> > once about searching out bad capacitors, I'll try and see if I can find

> that

> > one, and hopefully isolate the problem somewhat. It's allways nice to

hand

> > it over to the shop and tell them to look for something specific - it'll

> > usually impress them if you are right, and they'll be looking hard for

> > something else on their own. Maybe. . .?

> >

> > Tony. . .

> >

>

> If it's got bad capacitors, they are very easy to spot...

> but if that's the case...get a new mobo.

>

> The labor charge to replace the caps would be more than a new mobo...

>

> not only that even if the known bad caps are replaced,

> there will be other bad ones that are either not obvious...

> or will fail a little later

>

> > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in

message

> > news:FFDFEC2E-7749-4651-9F44-E6F808A11884@microsoft.com...

> > > Seasonic are good. Very good. but as you say, it could still be that.

> > > However, I'm more inclined to think it's a bad capacitor, shorting to

> > > ground. The reason is that it takes a little time (as it starts to

warm

> > up)

> > > before it fails. That capacitor could be on the mobo, in the PSU, or

> even

> > on

> > > a plug in card.

> > >

> > > --

> > > Charlie.

> > > http://msmvps.com/xperts64

> > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

> > >

> > > "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> > > news:%23E$qFh0eIHA.1132@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> > > > This is my problem - the Seasonic is extremely good quality. It's of

> the

> > > > kind you look and see the quality of a gem. That doesn't prevent it

> from

> > > > having a bad component, but this component could just as easily have

a

> > > > point

> > > > of weakness that is triggered by something else as it could be

having

> a

> > > > 'load' problem on it's own? The same goes for the motherboard. I

think

> > > > this

> > > > is a troubleshooters nightmare if you are not in a position where

you

> > have

> > > > the equipment to test your way methodically through all the

> sub-systems.

> > > >

> > > > But - I am beginning to realize that I am a bit lucky as well,

because

> I

> > > > am

> > > > about to order a very expensive monitor from the people who build

the

> > > > machine according to my specifications. I am certainly not going to

do

> > > > that

> > > > before I have seen how they handle this critical mission - and this

> puts

> > > > me

> > > > in a situation where I can let them get a 'whif' of my intensions.

> After

> > > > all, if it's the motherboard, it will be a borderline warranty

> affair -

> > if

> > > > it's the PSU there is no question. I want to make sure that they

will

> > not

> > > > jump at the chance to rip me off for a new board while swapping out

> the

> > > > PSU

> > > > from one of their demo machines! Or something?

> > > >

> > > > Yes, I do agree. This could well be the board, but I will be much

less

> > > > likely to uncover that myself, if it is. I think for the moment,

that

> > > > Carlo's idea of stripping it down, see'ing if it has any effect at

all

> > has

> > > > the best kind of methodology (is that the word?) I can hope for. If

it

> > > > doesn't reveal anything - then I will be much more likely to throw

it

> at

> > > > the

> > > > motherboard. Right now, it'll be blowing in the wind.

> > > >

> > > > Tony. . .

> > > >

> > > > "Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message

> > > > news:0930DE69-95F1-4AE1-B12E-9B188E5BC0C8@microsoft.com...

> > > >> The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the

> heaviest

> > > >> load). I would investigate the mobo.

> > > >>

> > > >> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> > > >> news:O$bZYAzeIHA.4744@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> > > >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

> > > >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

> > commited

> > > >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

> > > > enlisted

> > > >> > as

> > > >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

> > perfectly

> > > >> > good

> > > >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after

quite

> a

> > > >> > bit

> > > >> > of

> > > >> > rummaging.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

> > > > wonderful

> > > >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading

over

> > > >> > your

> > > >> > shoulders for a while now!

> > > >> >

> > > >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

> > though,

> > > >> > since

> > > >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may

run

> > for

> > > >> > a

> > > >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down

shortly

> > > > after

> > > >> > I

> > > >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the

'Coolest'

> > > > system

> > > >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

> > > > Seasonic

> > > >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

> > > > times -

> > > >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole

> day

> > > >> > in

> > > >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

> > hope

> > > > it

> > > >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year

> warranty.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was

on

> > the

> > > >> > twin

> > > >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

> > 'AI-Nap'

> > > >> > when

> > > >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two

or

> > > >> > three

> > > >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.

> > > >> > Removing

> > > >> > it

> > > >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a

few

> > > >> > days

> > > >> > before that had stopped completely.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the

> > > >> > carcas

> > > >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put

> under

> > > > the

> > > >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Tony. . .

> > > >> >

> > > >> > (sigh!)

> > > >> >

> > > >>

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

I do have almost any number of old graphics cards laying about, but

unfortunately they are all AGP. And there is no on-board video. I had two

cards in there that actually didn't do much good at all and I pulled away

those right away when this started - one was a cheap sound card that I only

used for it's game connector, and the other a TV-tuner card that I did

suspect because of it's internal shut-down circuitry - I thought that was

one item that was nice to eliminate right away.

Next, I have one DVD drive that constantly burns it's activity LED when a

disk is inserted, it allways did that and I wanted to get rid of it, and

here's the opportunity.

And I'll reset the BIOS, of course. I have in fact been overclocking by 5%

from the start and I don't need that at all. I just thought that with the

temps I was having, I might as well let it work a bit harder (sic!) I didn't

mean to keep it that way, but then I forgot. Then I may disconnect the HD's

and the fans and boot the Windows Memory-test boot CD that I made and see

how long it can keep running doing that. That's as much as I can do, I'm

afraid - I can swap the DVD's and the IDE cables but I'll need one attached

to boot the thing, obviously.

Well, my day is scheduled and we shall see if there is anything to report?

Thanks, everyone!

Tony. . .

"Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message

news:A414FA50-73FD-4EE2-BC5B-D66FE2CFD75E@microsoft.com...

> PSU, or equally likely, a failing "something" that is shorting to ground.

> That could be any of your cards, or even a bad capacitor. So pull

everything

> you can and if you have the ability to plug an old, but known good, video

> into it (or it has an onboard), that would be good.

>

> --

> Charlie.

> http://msmvps.com/xperts64

> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

>

> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> news:eIbo1tzeIHA.5348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> > This is good thinking, Carlos!

> >

> > Tomorrow, I'll rip it of expendable devices and dig out that old UTBCD -

> > (UltimateBootCD!) The biggest trouble is that I am not able to keep (it)

> > up

> > for any lenght of time that I can learn what might be happening, which

> > suggests the PSU, I think?

> >

> > Memory would likely throw crashes and BSOD's but I didn't have a single

> > one

> > of those - the machine just turns itself off in complete silence. I am

> > thinking of naming it 'Marvin' (Marvin - the Paranoid Android, being one

> > of

> > my heroe's!) in an effort to actually accept the behavior.

> >

> > Tony. . .

> >

> > "Carlos" <Carlos@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> > news:D6F25A11-1478-4ADB-83FF-EF54E2DC688D@microsoft.com...

> >> Tony,

> >> Sorry to hear that.

> >> PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.

> >> For what you describe it is not OS related.

> >> First suspect is the PSU but...

> >> Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.

> >> Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that, uh?)

and

> >> a

> >> copy of memtest86.

> >> Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a couple of

> > hours.

> >> Then run memtest.

> >> Best of luck.

> >> Carlos

> >> PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)

> >>

> >> "Tony Sperling" wrote:

> >>

> >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

> >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

commited

> >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

> > enlisted as

> >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

perfectly

> > good

> >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a

> >> > bit

> > of

> >> > rummaging.

> >> >

> >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

> > wonderful

> >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over

> >> > your

> >> > shoulders for a while now!

> >> >

> >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

though,

> > since

> >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run

for

> >> > a

> >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

> > after I

> >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

> > system

> >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

> > Seasonic

> >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

> > times -

> >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day

> >> > in

> >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

hope

> > it

> >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.

> >> >

> >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on

the

> > twin

> >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

'AI-Nap'

> > when

> >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or

> >> > three

> >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.

> >> > Removing

> > it

> >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few

> >> > days

> >> > before that had stopped completely.

> >> >

> >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the

> >> > carcas

> >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

> > the

> >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

> >> >

> >> > Tony. . .

> >> >

> >> > (sigh!)

> >> >

> >

>

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

Tony,

Charlie's capacitor theory is also a good one.

At work we also had this issue with many Acer motherboards that would

restart for no apparent reason.

Root cause was one of those capacitors on the mobo that add additional

filtering on the power supply lines.

Switching power supplies, as opposed to the "old" non-switching ones, place

a heavy load on the caps because of the high frequencies they have to filter.

Let's say they work at 20kHz as opposed to the usual 50, 60, 100 or 120 Hz

of the older designs.

They have to have a small ESR (equivalent series resistance) otherwise they

get hot very easily.

Last but not least, a similar issue to yours, was solved by changing the

microprocessor (back there in the Pentium II times).

Carlos

"Tony Sperling" wrote:

> Oh yes, Philo, I agree completely. I wouldn't dream of fixing that - except

> maybe on a week-end - as an overture to buying a replacement?

>

> Tony. . .

>

> "philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message

> news:%23I%23WHO4eIHA.5164@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> >

> > "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> > news:%235F4C63eIHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> > > Yes, these are good points - I even remember Tom's Hardware had an

> article

> > > once about searching out bad capacitors, I'll try and see if I can find

> > that

> > > one, and hopefully isolate the problem somewhat. It's allways nice to

> hand

> > > it over to the shop and tell them to look for something specific - it'll

> > > usually impress them if you are right, and they'll be looking hard for

> > > something else on their own. Maybe. . .?

> > >

> > > Tony. . .

> > >

> >

> > If it's got bad capacitors, they are very easy to spot...

> > but if that's the case...get a new mobo.

> >

> > The labor charge to replace the caps would be more than a new mobo...

> >

> > not only that even if the known bad caps are replaced,

> > there will be other bad ones that are either not obvious...

> > or will fail a little later

> >

> > > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in

> message

> > > news:FFDFEC2E-7749-4651-9F44-E6F808A11884@microsoft.com...

> > > > Seasonic are good. Very good. but as you say, it could still be that.

> > > > However, I'm more inclined to think it's a bad capacitor, shorting to

> > > > ground. The reason is that it takes a little time (as it starts to

> warm

> > > up)

> > > > before it fails. That capacitor could be on the mobo, in the PSU, or

> > even

> > > on

> > > > a plug in card.

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Charlie.

> > > > http://msmvps.com/xperts64

> > > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

> > > >

> > > > "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> > > > news:%23E$qFh0eIHA.1132@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> > > > > This is my problem - the Seasonic is extremely good quality. It's of

> > the

> > > > > kind you look and see the quality of a gem. That doesn't prevent it

> > from

> > > > > having a bad component, but this component could just as easily have

> a

> > > > > point

> > > > > of weakness that is triggered by something else as it could be

> having

> > a

> > > > > 'load' problem on it's own? The same goes for the motherboard. I

> think

> > > > > this

> > > > > is a troubleshooters nightmare if you are not in a position where

> you

> > > have

> > > > > the equipment to test your way methodically through all the

> > sub-systems.

> > > > >

> > > > > But - I am beginning to realize that I am a bit lucky as well,

> because

> > I

> > > > > am

> > > > > about to order a very expensive monitor from the people who build

> the

> > > > > machine according to my specifications. I am certainly not going to

> do

> > > > > that

> > > > > before I have seen how they handle this critical mission - and this

> > puts

> > > > > me

> > > > > in a situation where I can let them get a 'whif' of my intensions.

> > After

> > > > > all, if it's the motherboard, it will be a borderline warranty

> > affair -

> > > if

> > > > > it's the PSU there is no question. I want to make sure that they

> will

> > > not

> > > > > jump at the chance to rip me off for a new board while swapping out

> > the

> > > > > PSU

> > > > > from one of their demo machines! Or something?

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, I do agree. This could well be the board, but I will be much

> less

> > > > > likely to uncover that myself, if it is. I think for the moment,

> that

> > > > > Carlo's idea of stripping it down, see'ing if it has any effect at

> all

> > > has

> > > > > the best kind of methodology (is that the word?) I can hope for. If

> it

> > > > > doesn't reveal anything - then I will be much more likely to throw

> it

> > at

> > > > > the

> > > > > motherboard. Right now, it'll be blowing in the wind.

> > > > >

> > > > > Tony. . .

> > > > >

> > > > > "Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message

> > > > > news:0930DE69-95F1-4AE1-B12E-9B188E5BC0C8@microsoft.com...

> > > > >> The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the

> > heaviest

> > > > >> load). I would investigate the mobo.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> > > > >> news:O$bZYAzeIHA.4744@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> > > > >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

> > > > >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

> > > commited

> > > > >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

> > > > > enlisted

> > > > >> > as

> > > > >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

> > > perfectly

> > > > >> > good

> > > > >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after

> quite

> > a

> > > > >> > bit

> > > > >> > of

> > > > >> > rummaging.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

> > > > > wonderful

> > > > >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading

> over

> > > > >> > your

> > > > >> > shoulders for a while now!

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

> > > though,

> > > > >> > since

> > > > >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may

> run

> > > for

> > > > >> > a

> > > > >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down

> shortly

> > > > > after

> > > > >> > I

> > > > >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the

> 'Coolest'

> > > > > system

> > > > >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

> > > > > Seasonic

> > > > >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

> > > > > times -

> > > > >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole

> > day

> > > > >> > in

> > > > >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

> > > hope

> > > > > it

> > > > >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year

> > warranty.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was

> on

> > > the

> > > > >> > twin

> > > > >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

> > > 'AI-Nap'

> > > > >> > when

> > > > >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two

> or

> > > > >> > three

> > > > >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.

> > > > >> > Removing

> > > > >> > it

> > > > >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a

> few

> > > > >> > days

> > > > >> > before that had stopped completely.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the

> > > > >> > carcas

> > > > >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put

> > under

> > > > > the

> > > > >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > Tony. . .

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > (sigh!)

> > > > >> >

> > > > >>

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

Tony,

Overclocking, now that you mention it, that would be the first one to reset

to 0%.

It may not provoke temperature issues but you may have problems with memory

access.

Carlos

"Tony Sperling" wrote:

> I do have almost any number of old graphics cards laying about, but

> unfortunately they are all AGP. And there is no on-board video. I had two

> cards in there that actually didn't do much good at all and I pulled away

> those right away when this started - one was a cheap sound card that I only

> used for it's game connector, and the other a TV-tuner card that I did

> suspect because of it's internal shut-down circuitry - I thought that was

> one item that was nice to eliminate right away.

>

> Next, I have one DVD drive that constantly burns it's activity LED when a

> disk is inserted, it allways did that and I wanted to get rid of it, and

> here's the opportunity.

>

> And I'll reset the BIOS, of course. I have in fact been overclocking by 5%

> from the start and I don't need that at all. I just thought that with the

> temps I was having, I might as well let it work a bit harder (sic!) I didn't

> mean to keep it that way, but then I forgot. Then I may disconnect the HD's

> and the fans and boot the Windows Memory-test boot CD that I made and see

> how long it can keep running doing that. That's as much as I can do, I'm

> afraid - I can swap the DVD's and the IDE cables but I'll need one attached

> to boot the thing, obviously.

>

> Well, my day is scheduled and we shall see if there is anything to report?

>

> Thanks, everyone!

>

> Tony. . .

>

> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message

> news:A414FA50-73FD-4EE2-BC5B-D66FE2CFD75E@microsoft.com...

> > PSU, or equally likely, a failing "something" that is shorting to ground.

> > That could be any of your cards, or even a bad capacitor. So pull

> everything

> > you can and if you have the ability to plug an old, but known good, video

> > into it (or it has an onboard), that would be good.

> >

> > --

> > Charlie.

> > http://msmvps.com/xperts64

> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

> >

> > "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> > news:eIbo1tzeIHA.5348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> > > This is good thinking, Carlos!

> > >

> > > Tomorrow, I'll rip it of expendable devices and dig out that old UTBCD -

> > > (UltimateBootCD!) The biggest trouble is that I am not able to keep (it)

> > > up

> > > for any lenght of time that I can learn what might be happening, which

> > > suggests the PSU, I think?

> > >

> > > Memory would likely throw crashes and BSOD's but I didn't have a single

> > > one

> > > of those - the machine just turns itself off in complete silence. I am

> > > thinking of naming it 'Marvin' (Marvin - the Paranoid Android, being one

> > > of

> > > my heroe's!) in an effort to actually accept the behavior.

> > >

> > > Tony. . .

> > >

> > > "Carlos" <Carlos@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> > > news:D6F25A11-1478-4ADB-83FF-EF54E2DC688D@microsoft.com...

> > >> Tony,

> > >> Sorry to hear that.

> > >> PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.

> > >> For what you describe it is not OS related.

> > >> First suspect is the PSU but...

> > >> Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.

> > >> Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that, uh?)

> and

> > >> a

> > >> copy of memtest86.

> > >> Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a couple of

> > > hours.

> > >> Then run memtest.

> > >> Best of luck.

> > >> Carlos

> > >> PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)

> > >>

> > >> "Tony Sperling" wrote:

> > >>

> > >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

> > >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

> commited

> > >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

> > > enlisted as

> > >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

> perfectly

> > > good

> > >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a

> > >> > bit

> > > of

> > >> > rummaging.

> > >> >

> > >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

> > > wonderful

> > >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over

> > >> > your

> > >> > shoulders for a while now!

> > >> >

> > >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

> though,

> > > since

> > >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run

> for

> > >> > a

> > >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

> > > after I

> > >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

> > > system

> > >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

> > > Seasonic

> > >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

> > > times -

> > >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole day

> > >> > in

> > >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

> hope

> > > it

> > >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year warranty.

> > >> >

> > >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on

> the

> > > twin

> > >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

> 'AI-Nap'

> > > when

> > >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or

> > >> > three

> > >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.

> > >> > Removing

> > > it

> > >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few

> > >> > days

> > >> > before that had stopped completely.

> > >> >

> > >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the

> > >> > carcas

> > >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put under

> > > the

> > >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

> > >> >

> > >> > Tony. . .

> > >> >

> > >> > (sigh!)

> > >> >

> > >

> >

>

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

Absolutely!

I reset the BIOS and disconnected that potential suspicious DVD drive, it

ran for ½ hour and I went down to do some shopping. When I came back 10 - 15

minutes later it had shut down.

Just now I swapped the DVD's and turned it on again, strangely though, the

keyboard stopped responding, so I'm not getting into BIOS this time.

So, it's not the OC'ing! I don't expect to find anything conclusive, but at

least I will have made some eliminations, which isn't all that bad either

at-the-end-of-the-day.

HD's go next!

Tony. . .

"Carlos" <Carlos@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:1A4B2CBB-9AA9-4B20-84AC-C422104520B7@microsoft.com...

> Tony,

> Overclocking, now that you mention it, that would be the first one to

reset

> to 0%.

> It may not provoke temperature issues but you may have problems with

memory

> access.

> Carlos

>

> "Tony Sperling" wrote:

>

> > I do have almost any number of old graphics cards laying about, but

> > unfortunately they are all AGP. And there is no on-board video. I had

two

> > cards in there that actually didn't do much good at all and I pulled

away

> > those right away when this started - one was a cheap sound card that I

only

> > used for it's game connector, and the other a TV-tuner card that I did

> > suspect because of it's internal shut-down circuitry - I thought that

was

> > one item that was nice to eliminate right away.

> >

> > Next, I have one DVD drive that constantly burns it's activity LED when

a

> > disk is inserted, it allways did that and I wanted to get rid of it, and

> > here's the opportunity.

> >

> > And I'll reset the BIOS, of course. I have in fact been overclocking by

5%

> > from the start and I don't need that at all. I just thought that with

the

> > temps I was having, I might as well let it work a bit harder (sic!) I

didn't

> > mean to keep it that way, but then I forgot. Then I may disconnect the

HD's

> > and the fans and boot the Windows Memory-test boot CD that I made and

see

> > how long it can keep running doing that. That's as much as I can do, I'm

> > afraid - I can swap the DVD's and the IDE cables but I'll need one

attached

> > to boot the thing, obviously.

> >

> > Well, my day is scheduled and we shall see if there is anything to

report?

> >

> > Thanks, everyone!

> >

> > Tony. . .

> >

> > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in

message

> > news:A414FA50-73FD-4EE2-BC5B-D66FE2CFD75E@microsoft.com...

> > > PSU, or equally likely, a failing "something" that is shorting to

ground.

> > > That could be any of your cards, or even a bad capacitor. So pull

> > everything

> > > you can and if you have the ability to plug an old, but known good,

video

> > > into it (or it has an onboard), that would be good.

> > >

> > > --

> > > Charlie.

> > > http://msmvps.com/xperts64

> > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

> > >

> > > "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> > > news:eIbo1tzeIHA.5348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> > > > This is good thinking, Carlos!

> > > >

> > > > Tomorrow, I'll rip it of expendable devices and dig out that old

UTBCD -

> > > > (UltimateBootCD!) The biggest trouble is that I am not able to keep

(it)

> > > > up

> > > > for any lenght of time that I can learn what might be happening,

which

> > > > suggests the PSU, I think?

> > > >

> > > > Memory would likely throw crashes and BSOD's but I didn't have a

single

> > > > one

> > > > of those - the machine just turns itself off in complete silence. I

am

> > > > thinking of naming it 'Marvin' (Marvin - the Paranoid Android, being

one

> > > > of

> > > > my heroe's!) in an effort to actually accept the behavior.

> > > >

> > > > Tony. . .

> > > >

> > > > "Carlos" <Carlos@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

> > > > news:D6F25A11-1478-4ADB-83FF-EF54E2DC688D@microsoft.com...

> > > >> Tony,

> > > >> Sorry to hear that.

> > > >> PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.

> > > >> For what you describe it is not OS related.

> > > >> First suspect is the PSU but...

> > > >> Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.

> > > >> Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that,

uh?)

> > and

> > > >> a

> > > >> copy of memtest86.

> > > >> Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a

couple of

> > > > hours.

> > > >> Then run memtest.

> > > >> Best of luck.

> > > >> Carlos

> > > >> PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)

> > > >>

> > > >> "Tony Sperling" wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

> > > >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

> > commited

> > > >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

> > > > enlisted as

> > > >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

> > perfectly

> > > > good

> > > >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after

quite a

> > > >> > bit

> > > > of

> > > >> > rummaging.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

> > > > wonderful

> > > >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading

over

> > > >> > your

> > > >> > shoulders for a while now!

> > > >> >

> > > >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

> > though,

> > > > since

> > > >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may

run

> > for

> > > >> > a

> > > >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down

shortly

> > > > after I

> > > >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the

'Coolest'

> > > > system

> > > >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

> > > > Seasonic

> > > >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

> > > > times -

> > > >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole

day

> > > >> > in

> > > >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

> > hope

> > > > it

> > > >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year

warranty.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was

on

> > the

> > > > twin

> > > >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

> > 'AI-Nap'

> > > > when

> > > >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two

or

> > > >> > three

> > > >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.

> > > >> > Removing

> > > > it

> > > >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a

few

> > > >> > days

> > > >> > before that had stopped completely.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the

> > > >> > carcas

> > > >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put

under

> > > > the

> > > >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Tony. . .

> > > >> >

> > > >> > (sigh!)

> > > >> >

> > > >

> > >

> >

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

If it's capacitors, the mobo should be swapped. And it should certainly be

on warranty.

Get a good flashlight, a magnifying glass, and if possible put the box up on

a table top where you don't have to bend over or lie down to inspect it. Go

over it minutely, just looking for _anything_ that looks off. It could be a

bad solder joint (not as common as the old days, certainly, or a leaky cap,

or a bit of something conductive that got in and periodically gets blown

around to a place where it shorts out other things.

--

Charlie.

http://msmvps.com/xperts64

http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

"Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

news:OVxqCy4eIHA.3724@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> Oh yes, Philo, I agree completely. I wouldn't dream of fixing that -

> except

> maybe on a week-end - as an overture to buying a replacement?

>

> Tony. . .

>

> "philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message

> news:%23I%23WHO4eIHA.5164@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>>

>> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

>> news:%235F4C63eIHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>> > Yes, these are good points - I even remember Tom's Hardware had an

> article

>> > once about searching out bad capacitors, I'll try and see if I can find

>> that

>> > one, and hopefully isolate the problem somewhat. It's allways nice to

> hand

>> > it over to the shop and tell them to look for something specific -

>> > it'll

>> > usually impress them if you are right, and they'll be looking hard for

>> > something else on their own. Maybe. . .?

>> >

>> > Tony. . .

>> >

>>

>> If it's got bad capacitors, they are very easy to spot...

>> but if that's the case...get a new mobo.

>>

>> The labor charge to replace the caps would be more than a new mobo...

>>

>> not only that even if the known bad caps are replaced,

>> there will be other bad ones that are either not obvious...

>> or will fail a little later

>>

>> > "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in

> message

>> > news:FFDFEC2E-7749-4651-9F44-E6F808A11884@microsoft.com...

>> > > Seasonic are good. Very good. but as you say, it could still be that.

>> > > However, I'm more inclined to think it's a bad capacitor, shorting to

>> > > ground. The reason is that it takes a little time (as it starts to

> warm

>> > up)

>> > > before it fails. That capacitor could be on the mobo, in the PSU, or

>> even

>> > on

>> > > a plug in card.

>> > >

>> > > --

>> > > Charlie.

>> > > http://msmvps.com/xperts64

>> > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

>> > >

>> > > "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

>> > > news:%23E$qFh0eIHA.1132@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> > > > This is my problem - the Seasonic is extremely good quality. It's

>> > > > of

>> the

>> > > > kind you look and see the quality of a gem. That doesn't prevent it

>> from

>> > > > having a bad component, but this component could just as easily

>> > > > have

> a

>> > > > point

>> > > > of weakness that is triggered by something else as it could be

> having

>> a

>> > > > 'load' problem on it's own? The same goes for the motherboard. I

> think

>> > > > this

>> > > > is a troubleshooters nightmare if you are not in a position where

> you

>> > have

>> > > > the equipment to test your way methodically through all the

>> sub-systems.

>> > > >

>> > > > But - I am beginning to realize that I am a bit lucky as well,

> because

>> I

>> > > > am

>> > > > about to order a very expensive monitor from the people who build

> the

>> > > > machine according to my specifications. I am certainly not going to

> do

>> > > > that

>> > > > before I have seen how they handle this critical mission - and this

>> puts

>> > > > me

>> > > > in a situation where I can let them get a 'whif' of my intensions.

>> After

>> > > > all, if it's the motherboard, it will be a borderline warranty

>> affair -

>> > if

>> > > > it's the PSU there is no question. I want to make sure that they

> will

>> > not

>> > > > jump at the chance to rip me off for a new board while swapping out

>> the

>> > > > PSU

>> > > > from one of their demo machines! Or something?

>> > > >

>> > > > Yes, I do agree. This could well be the board, but I will be much

> less

>> > > > likely to uncover that myself, if it is. I think for the moment,

> that

>> > > > Carlo's idea of stripping it down, see'ing if it has any effect at

> all

>> > has

>> > > > the best kind of methodology (is that the word?) I can hope for. If

> it

>> > > > doesn't reveal anything - then I will be much more likely to throw

> it

>> at

>> > > > the

>> > > > motherboard. Right now, it'll be blowing in the wind.

>> > > >

>> > > > Tony. . .

>> > > >

>> > > > "Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message

>> > > > news:0930DE69-95F1-4AE1-B12E-9B188E5BC0C8@microsoft.com...

>> > > >> The psu usually shows up as a problem during boot (that is the

>> heaviest

>> > > >> load). I would investigate the mobo.

>> > > >>

>> > > >> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

>> > > >> news:O$bZYAzeIHA.4744@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>> > > >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share

>> > > >> > of

>> > > >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

>> > commited

>> > > >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

>> > > > enlisted

>> > > >> > as

>> > > >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

>> > perfectly

>> > > >> > good

>> > > >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after

> quite

>> a

>> > > >> > bit

>> > > >> > of

>> > > >> > rummaging.

>> > > >> >

>> > > >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

>> > > > wonderful

>> > > >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading

> over

>> > > >> > your

>> > > >> > shoulders for a while now!

>> > > >> >

>> > > >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

>> > though,

>> > > >> > since

>> > > >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may

> run

>> > for

>> > > >> > a

>> > > >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down

> shortly

>> > > > after

>> > > >> > I

>> > > >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the

> 'Coolest'

>> > > > system

>> > > >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

>> > > > Seasonic

>> > > >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a

>> > > >> > few

>> > > > times -

>> > > >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a

>> > > >> > whole

>> day

>> > > >> > in

>> > > >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic -

>> > > >> > I

>> > hope

>> > > > it

>> > > >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year

>> warranty.

>> > > >> >

>> > > >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was

> on

>> > the

>> > > >> > twin

>> > > >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

>> > 'AI-Nap'

>> > > >> > when

>> > > >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two

> or

>> > > >> > three

>> > > >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.

>> > > >> > Removing

>> > > >> > it

>> > > >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a

> few

>> > > >> > days

>> > > >> > before that had stopped completely.

>> > > >> >

>> > > >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with

>> > > >> > the

>> > > >> > carcas

>> > > >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put

>> under

>> > > > the

>> > > >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

>> > > >> >

>> > > >> > Tony. . .

>> > > >> >

>> > > >> > (sigh!)

>> > > >> >

>> > > >>

>> > > >

>> > >

>> >

>>

>

March 1, 2008

Re: What an awfull couple of days!

Always useful to keep an old PCI one around, just in case. ;)

Most of my machines are still AGP, with only a couple being PCI-e at this

point. That will change with the next round, but that's a while still.

--

Charlie.

http://msmvps.com/xperts64

http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

"Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

news:e6rFJD5eIHA.5620@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>I do have almost any number of old graphics cards laying about, but

> unfortunately they are all AGP. And there is no on-board video. I had two

> cards in there that actually didn't do much good at all and I pulled away

> those right away when this started - one was a cheap sound card that I

> only

> used for it's game connector, and the other a TV-tuner card that I did

> suspect because of it's internal shut-down circuitry - I thought that was

> one item that was nice to eliminate right away.

>

> Next, I have one DVD drive that constantly burns it's activity LED when a

> disk is inserted, it allways did that and I wanted to get rid of it, and

> here's the opportunity.

>

> And I'll reset the BIOS, of course. I have in fact been overclocking by 5%

> from the start and I don't need that at all. I just thought that with the

> temps I was having, I might as well let it work a bit harder (sic!) I

> didn't

> mean to keep it that way, but then I forgot. Then I may disconnect the

> HD's

> and the fans and boot the Windows Memory-test boot CD that I made and see

> how long it can keep running doing that. That's as much as I can do, I'm

> afraid - I can swap the DVD's and the IDE cables but I'll need one

> attached

> to boot the thing, obviously.

>

> Well, my day is scheduled and we shall see if there is anything to report?

>

> Thanks, everyone!

>

> Tony. . .

>

> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in message

> news:A414FA50-73FD-4EE2-BC5B-D66FE2CFD75E@microsoft.com...

>> PSU, or equally likely, a failing "something" that is shorting to ground.

>> That could be any of your cards, or even a bad capacitor. So pull

> everything

>> you can and if you have the ability to plug an old, but known good, video

>> into it (or it has an onboard), that would be good.

>>

>> --

>> Charlie.

>> http://msmvps.com/xperts64

>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

>>

>> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

>> news:eIbo1tzeIHA.5348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

>> > This is good thinking, Carlos!

>> >

>> > Tomorrow, I'll rip it of expendable devices and dig out that old

>> > UTBCD -

>> > (UltimateBootCD!) The biggest trouble is that I am not able to keep

>> > (it)

>> > up

>> > for any lenght of time that I can learn what might be happening, which

>> > suggests the PSU, I think?

>> >

>> > Memory would likely throw crashes and BSOD's but I didn't have a single

>> > one

>> > of those - the machine just turns itself off in complete silence. I am

>> > thinking of naming it 'Marvin' (Marvin - the Paranoid Android, being

>> > one

>> > of

>> > my heroe's!) in an effort to actually accept the behavior.

>> >

>> > Tony. . .

>> >

>> > "Carlos" <Carlos@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

>> > news:D6F25A11-1478-4ADB-83FF-EF54E2DC688D@microsoft.com...

>> >> Tony,

>> >> Sorry to hear that.

>> >> PC downtime is worst than a car downtime.

>> >> For what you describe it is not OS related.

>> >> First suspect is the PSU but...

>> >> Remove as much hardware as you can, even the HD's.

>> >> Get yourself a good old DOS floppy (your Win2k rig can do that, uh?)

> and

>> >> a

>> >> copy of memtest86.

>> >> Boot your "un-hardwared" PC into DOS and leave it there for a couple

>> >> of

>> > hours.

>> >> Then run memtest.

>> >> Best of luck.

>> >> Carlos

>> >> PS: you might also wanna try some prayings (any religion will do)

>> >>

>> >> "Tony Sperling" wrote:

>> >>

>> >> > It's not that I'm really whining, but I certainly had my share of

>> >> > misfortunes just now! (I probably deserve it) My 64bit system

> commited

>> >> > suicide and the good old retired Athlon XP 2400+ machine, that I

>> > enlisted as

>> >> > an immidiate reservist, refused to acknowledge that it had a

> perfectly

>> > good

>> >> > HD a short while ago! A new flat-cable sorted that one after quite a

>> >> > bit

>> > of

>> >> > rummaging.

>> >> >

>> >> > So, folks: "Here I am - back at the old Win2K, for now". What a

>> > wonderful

>> >> > machine this is - it never ceases to amaze me! I'll be reading over

>> >> > your

>> >> > shoulders for a while now!

>> >> >

>> >> > I can't really figure out what happened with the FX-62 system,

> though,

>> > since

>> >> > I wasn't in the room when it shut down. When I restart, it may run

> for

>> >> > a

>> >> > couple of minutes, or 20 perhaps, and one time it shut down shortly

>> > after I

>> >> > entered the BIOS Setup. It's not hot at all, this is the 'Coolest'

>> > system

>> >> > I've ever had (in every respect). It inhabits a Antec box with a

>> > Seasonic

>> >> > PSU and a handfull of fans. I did manage to see the readout a few

>> > times -

>> >> > CPU 29*, MB 33*, and GPU 43* (threshold at 126*!) I spent a whole

>> >> > day

>> >> > in

>> >> > there and the only suspect I can come up with is the Seasonic - I

> hope

>> > it

>> >> > is, because I think I can remember it came with a five year

>> >> > warranty.

>> >> >

>> >> > Avast has not made a sound or anything. The last thing I did was on

> the

>> > twin

>> >> > XP Home system where I had mistakenly installed the Asus Tool

> 'AI-Nap'

>> > when

>> >> > I rebuild that system a short while ago, I had removed that two or

>> >> > three

>> >> > days earlier because it slowed down that system quite severely.

>> >> > Removing

>> > it

>> >> > was a bit of an ordeal since parts of it kept popping up, but a few

>> >> > days

>> >> > before that had stopped completely.

>> >> >

>> >> > But this has taken me so long that I'm effectively stuck with the

>> >> > carcas

>> >> > over the week-end. If anybody have any idea what else I can put

>> >> > under

>> > the

>> >> > looking glass until then - let's hear it, please!

>> >> >

>> >> > Tony. . .

>> >> >

>> >> > (sigh!)

>> >> >

>> >

>>

>

March 2, 2008

RE: What an awfull couple of days!

Hey Tony,

have you flashed your BIOS recently? if that stuffs up it can cause all

sorts of boot issues. what about auto downloading...did it download a virus?

and of course the good old motherboard drivers...have they been updated

recently? after running for 20 minutes or so, what temp does your BIOS say

your CPU is at? you might have a faulty temp sensor...in which case you

should have an option in BIOS to disable system resets when a certain temp is

reached....just make sure it IS a FALSE reading or zap goes your 64bit baby.

hope this gives you food for thought

--

Gamer extraordiaire