When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

April 5, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

You are absolutely right, Colin - the section of the manual that describes

the memory support clearly states, and in several places, that the board

supports up to 8GB 800Mhz - only in that table is it shown that you need

specific quality units to have it support more than two slots of up to 2GB

each! So, true enough, but a low precision form of truth, perhaps.

I will commit Charlie's [acquired?] Voltage trick to my own personal and

frightfully slow memory, one fine day it may solve an 'issue'?

Tony. . .

"Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:D09CC028-53AE-4A4C-804C-C9706A1591C0@microsoft.com...

> And it corresponds to the test reports on the website. I suspect that

folks

> look there for the memory products that are supported but fail to notice

how

> much was tested. I know I didn't take that seriously enough and learned

the

> hard way not to assume that just finding the specs for the ram I wanted to

> use did not mean that I could fill all the slots with it without taking

> further steps to get it working.

>

> "Tony Sperling" <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote in message

> news:eMsmhfxlIHA.4076@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> > Out of curiousity, I dug out the manual for my Asus M2N32-SLI - it

> > actually

> > has a table of memory products that describes what brands and serial

> > numbers

> > supports 800Mhz in how many slots.

> >

> > That table is probably seriously out of date by now, but it shows how

> > tight

> > the specifications my actually be. I think this is well worth to notice

> > (and

> > remember!).

> >

> > Tony. . .

> >

> > "Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message

> > news:1C234A62-9373-4F91-BA19-6E2DC9466965@microsoft.com...

> >> The recommendation is one tenth of a volt. I have seen cautions not to

> >> exceed this.

> >>

> >> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@mvKILLALLSPAMMERSps.org> wrote in

message

> >> news:611AFFFB-AE46-42F1-8751-81BEFEB43AB8@microsoft.com...

> >> >I had an interesting discussion with a tech at a major online retailer

> >> >on

> >> >this. He said that several major mobos have this problem, but that

> >> >upping

> >> >the voltage to the memory stabilizes them. They've seen a lot of this.

> >> >So

> >> >if you have a mobo with the problem, try going into the BIOS and

> >> >tweaking

> >> >up the voltage to the RAM. It won't solve it for all of them, but it

> >> >does

> >> >for some.

> >> >

> >> > --

> >> > Charlie.

> >> > http://msmvps.com/xperts64

> >> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

> >> >

> >> > "Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message

> >> > news:F09BD4DC-D624-4AA9-B161-0D38409A7E4C@microsoft.com...

> >> >> It isn't the amount of ram. It is the number of memory sticks. Its

> > the

> >> >> fourth stick that is an issue with some mobos. Four sticks at 667

> > seems

> >> >> to work but not 800.

> >> >>

> >> >> <miso@sushi.com> wrote in message

> >> >>

> >

news:a8ce643b-2941-4fbd-b746-994870092a47@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com...

> >> >>> On Mar 30, 3:48 pm, Defjr <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

> >> >>>> I would like a date that MS is going to have the +4 gigs of RAM

> >> >>>> issue

> >> >>>> fixed

> >> >>>> on Vista Ultimate 64. Anyone have any info, as MS doesnt say a

word?

> > I

> >> >>>> have a

> >> >>>> sweet machine that works beautifully......................If you

> >> >>>> discount the

> >> >>>> 8g RAM bug. I have all Vista 64 Certified components, and untill I

> > ran

> >> >>>> into

> >> >>>> this problem, there was no for-warning from MS. Its like if they

> > ignore

> >> >>>> the

> >> >>>> problem it will just go away. IM NOT GOING AWAY BILL GATES!! FIX

> >> >>>> YOUR

> >> >>>> S@#T!!!!!

> >> >>>

> >> >>> Bios memory remap.

> >> >>>

> >> >>> This 4 and 8 G talk doesn't make much sense. If you can't do 4, you

> >> >>> can't do 8.

> >> >>

> >> >

> >>

> >

>

April 11, 2008

RE: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

First off, I want to say thank you to all of you who have replied, and

especially Mr Russell. I did not intend to come off as yelling at you guys,

but MS. Now then, I used the voltage "trick" and now all seems to be well

with 1 exception:

On the Vista compatibility page of this website it lists the Hauppauge

PVR150MCE/ PVR500MCE tuner as Compliant, and works with 64 bit, and it

does.....if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps

showing up is beyond me). Hauppauge says they will not be looking into the

problem anytime soon, as they are working on their "new" product line, but

has offered to RMA the card for a new model that will work(all beit a single

tuner model).

The reason I have been upset with MS is due to the way they hand out the

logo of works/ certified for Vista without requiring the manufacturer to show

the actual test. In this example they would have seen Hauppauge did the

origonal test for the logo on that product with only 512M of RAM?!?! Who in

the world would use a 64bit OS with that low of RAM? Isnt the whole purpose

of 64 bit for more memory allocations? Anyone know why you cant install Vista

64 with more than 2 gigs of RAM to start? I origonally attempted installing

with 8, then 6, then 4, and finally successfull with 2. Upon installing SP1 I

could then re-install the memory and moved the voltage up as suggested and

all worked fine?!?

Again thanks to those who sent in sugestions, and hopefully this will all be

done soon.

April 11, 2008

RE: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

In case anyone was wondering the specs:

EVGA 780i mobo

Intel core 2 Quad Q6600

Corsair 2x 2048 XMS PC6400 @800Mhz RAM per kit(2 kits)

2 Raptor 150 HDDs in Raid 0

EVGA 9800 GX2 GPU

Audigy 2 ZS Platinum sound

Toughpower 1200W PSU

Hauppauge PVR500MCE (does not work without disabling memory)

Pioneer BD/DVD/CD multi drive (cant remember the model)

All liquid cooled CPU, GPU, HDDs, RAM, with no overclocking

April 11, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

"Defjr" <Defjr@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF536A@microsoft.com...

> First off, I want to say thank you to all of you who have replied, and

> especially Mr Russell. I did not intend to come off as yelling at you

> guys,

> but MS. Now then, I used the voltage "trick" and now all seems to be well

> with 1 exception:

> On the Vista compatibility page of this website it lists the Hauppauge

> PVR150MCE/ PVR500MCE tuner as Compliant, and works with 64 bit, and it

> does.....if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number

> keeps

> showing up is beyond me). Hauppauge says they will not be looking into the

> problem anytime soon, as they are working on their "new" product line, but

> has offered to RMA the card for a new model that will work(all beit a

> single

> tuner model).

> The reason I have been upset with MS is due to the way they hand out the

> logo of works/ certified for Vista without requiring the manufacturer to

> show

> the actual test. In this example they would have seen Hauppauge did the

> origonal test for the logo on that product with only 512M of RAM?!?! Who

> in

> the world would use a 64bit OS with that low of RAM? Isnt the whole

> purpose

> of 64 bit for more memory allocations? Anyone know why you cant install

> Vista

> 64 with more than 2 gigs of RAM to start? I origonally attempted

> installing

> with 8, then 6, then 4, and finally successfull with 2. Upon installing

> SP1 I

> could then re-install the memory and moved the voltage up as suggested and

> all worked fine?!?

> Again thanks to those who sent in sugestions, and hopefully this will all

> be

> done soon.

I installed Vista Ultimate 64 bit, with 4 sticks of 1gb each Corsair PC8500

ram, in my EVGA 780i mb, with no problems. ( Prior to SP1 ).

Not sure why some have a problem, and some don't, but I can say it worked

fine for me.

--

Don

April 11, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

I don't think most regulars here loose much sleep if someone is yelling on

occasion, this is an unusually reasonable and level-headed community with a

direct aim at helping out. What isn't the best approach, is starting out

yelling "MS bug!" over something that MS clearly has no control over - and

this isn't even that we are in any significant way pre-determined for

protectiveness towards MS, you will find quite a lot of critisism here too,

but for some strange reason almost everybody wants to keep it on-track -

probably because de-railings turn out to be hard to handle, in most cases.

> The reason I have been upset with MS is due to the way they hand out the

> logo of works/ certified for Vista without requiring the manufacturer to

show

> the actual test. In this example they would have seen Hauppauge did the

> origonal test for the logo on that product with only 512M of RAM?!?!

Personally, I agree with you on this, this comment really ought to have

appeared in your original post - we have debated the 'glaring' changes that

was made in the WHQL requirements since Vista was released - mostly the

disappearing original requirement that [Certified for Vista] had to imply

that it would not be 64bit incompatible, but it has not been on a daily

exchange here lately.

On the other hand, 64bit computing is a moving target and it is not many

months ago that the general PC professional would regard putting a TV card

onto a 8GB machine as a somewhat alien idea, but I agree - this is not any

credit for Hauppauge, they have no reason to feel proud and I think it's a

great idea that MS (or the manufacturer?) should make the tests public.

Thanks, though, for making your own experiments public - the Voltage trick

is immensly usefull, I think! Can you think of anything reasonably

interesting to add about the steps you took, and/or how much you upped the

V?

Tony. . .

"Defjr" <Defjr@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF536A@microsoft.com...

> First off, I want to say thank you to all of you who have replied, and

> especially Mr Russell. I did not intend to come off as yelling at you

guys,

> but MS. Now then, I used the voltage "trick" and now all seems to be well

> with 1 exception:

> On the Vista compatibility page of this website it lists the Hauppauge

> PVR150MCE/ PVR500MCE tuner as Compliant, and works with 64 bit, and it

> does.....if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number

keeps

> showing up is beyond me). Hauppauge says they will not be looking into the

> problem anytime soon, as they are working on their "new" product line, but

> has offered to RMA the card for a new model that will work(all beit a

single

> tuner model).

> the world would use a 64bit OS with that low of RAM? Isnt the whole

purpose

> of 64 bit for more memory allocations? Anyone know why you cant install

Vista

> 64 with more than 2 gigs of RAM to start? I origonally attempted

installing

> with 8, then 6, then 4, and finally successfull with 2. Upon installing

SP1 I

> could then re-install the memory and moved the voltage up as suggested and

> all worked fine?!?

> Again thanks to those who sent in sugestions, and hopefully this will all

be

> done soon.

April 12, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

<snip>

Can you venture a guess as to why too much ram effects a video card?

They are on different buses.

April 12, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

I wouldn't really know. To me, this has a look of 'stupidity' about it.

Since a TV tuner card operates partly by saving streams to files I guess the

driver could try and set up a default buffer to start from in quick respons

to someone saying "Hey, I want to record this show!" - the routine, perhaps

having a 'good-will' kind of attitude, wants to find an optimal size for the

buffer and then chokes on the amount?

Hard to say, though. It's not pretty!

Tony. . .

<miso@sushi.com> wrote in message

news:d6a9b454-4a4a-40be-b25d-bc6752129ee9@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

> <snip>

>

> Can you venture a guess as to why too much ram effects a video card?

> They are on different buses.

April 12, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

<miso@sushi.com> wrote in message

news:d6a9b454-4a4a-40be-b25d-bc6752129ee9@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

> <snip>

>

> Can you venture a guess as to why too much ram effects a video card?

> They are on different buses.

They share the same address space, though.

Tom Lake

April 12, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF536A@microsoft.com> Defjr

<Defjr@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps

>showing up is beyond me)

2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you

can't access memory above 4GB.

If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't

offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.

Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual

memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.

However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with

hardware.

April 12, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

In message

<d6a9b454-4a4a-40be-b25d-bc6752129ee9@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>

miso@sushi.com wrote:

><snip>

>

>Can you venture a guess as to why too much ram effects a video card?

>They are on different buses.

Different bus, but shared address space.

Also, in the area of video cards or other devices which deal with large

amounts of data, the hardware may also use DMA (direct memory access) as

well as shared address space.

For either DMA or shared address space to work, both the hardware and

drivers have to be capable of addressing all of the RAM currently in use

by the operating system.

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:

> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr

>

> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps

> >showing up is beyond me)

>

> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you

> can't access memory above 4GB.

>

> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't

> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.

>

> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual

> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.

>

> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with

> hardware.

Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow

their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some

situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor

regarding available memory.

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

In message

<d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

miso@sushi.com wrote:

>Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow

>their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some

>situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor

>regarding available memory.

The ~3.2GB limitation is not Microsoft specific, it's an x86

architectural limitation.

In general an x86 system can't actually address 4GB of memory, but

rather, it has 4GB of address space.

Certain blocks (Parts of 640KB-1MB, hence the old DOS 640KB limit) are

reserved in all systems, various other hardware needs have their own

variable address space needs.

Between your motherboard and video card, you're usually down to about

3.2GB of address space for physical RAM. With a couple higher end video

cards, this can be substantially lower.

There is a hack around the problem, PAE, which is more or less the EMS

of the 2000 era, but it requires all hardware and kernel mode drivers to

support PAE, so in practice it's only seen on servers (and isn't

included in any Microsoft desktop operating systems)

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

>

> Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow

> their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some

> situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor

> regarding available memory.

IIRC, chipset memory limits occur in powers of two, at least for newer

chipsets. A few Intel sets have a 2GB limit, a lot of sets have a 4GB limit,

and more have an 8GB limit. I'm pretty sure oddball limits like 3.2GB are OS

limitations.

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that is

reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending on the

hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a 3.2GB limit.

The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB does so as an

example in order to illustrate how the memory available for user programs is

calculated. It is no more valid for your system than a TurboTax example

would be for your real return.

<miso@sushi.com> wrote in message

news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...

> On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:

>> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr

>>

>> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps

>> >showing up is beyond me)

>>

>> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you

>> can't access memory above 4GB.

>>

>> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't

>> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.

>>

>> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual

>> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.

>>

>> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with

>> hardware.

>

> Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow

> their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some

> situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor

> regarding available memory.

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

The "oddball" amounts are not OS limitations and they are not oddballs.

They result from how the BIOS allocates memory-mapped IO for the devices

installed on the system. The mobo manufacturer is responsible for this, not

MS. Since hardware varies from system to system, so does the amount

reserved for the memory-mapped IO.

"Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message

news:uESOQRRnIHA.3780@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>

>>

>> Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow

>> their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some

>> situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor

>> regarding available memory.

>

> IIRC, chipset memory limits occur in powers of two, at least for newer

> chipsets. A few Intel sets have a 2GB limit, a lot of sets have a 4GB

> limit, and more have an 8GB limit. I'm pretty sure oddball limits like

> 3.2GB are OS limitations.

>

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

Yes - and is this also not proving that re-mapping the BIOS, to make 4GB

visible (to the user), isn't giving the system any more memory to work with

(unless there is more than 4GB installed)? The re-mapping relocates the PCI

memory to make the rest visible, but the space it inhabited in the old

location is still consumed by the same amount somewhere else.

Tony. . .

"Colin Barnhorst" <c.barnhorst@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:CEF67159-AB38-41B5-90DA-F07EDDDE36EC@microsoft.com...

> That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that is

> reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending on

the

> hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a 3.2GB limit.

> The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB does so as an

> example in order to illustrate how the memory available for user programs

is

> calculated. It is no more valid for your system than a TurboTax example

> would be for your real return.

>

> <miso@sushi.com> wrote in message

> news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...

> > On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:

> >> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr

> >>

> >> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

> >> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps

> >> >showing up is beyond me)

> >>

> >> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you

> >> can't access memory above 4GB.

> >>

> >> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't

> >> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.

> >>

> >> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual

> >> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.

> >>

> >> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with

> >> hardware.

> >

> > Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow

> > their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some

> > situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor

> > regarding available memory.

>

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

In message <uLfBiBTnIHA.748@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl> "Tony Sperling"

<tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote:

>Yes - and is this also not proving that re-mapping the BIOS, to make 4GB

>visible (to the user), isn't giving the system any more memory to work with

>(unless there is more than 4GB installed)? The re-mapping relocates the PCI

>memory to make the rest visible, but the space it inhabited in the old

>location is still consumed by the same amount somewhere else.

In a x64 capable system, instead of 4GB you have a 64GB physical address

space to work with (on today's CPUs and chipsets), the bar is raised

significantly.

With an address space capable of 16 exabytes, we won't hit a hard limit

any time soon, and frankly, if you did build a system with 16 exabytes

of RAM today, you probably wouldn't mind the few KB lost to real mode

BIOS, nor the ~640MB-1GB lost to hardware.

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

Undoubtably, so. Only, I wasn't talking about address space at all - I was

talking about the amount of installed physical memory!

Tony. . .

"DevilsPGD" <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote in message

news:qhc3049qgmmuv0jeoset5jh0uvicpjrm81@4ax.com...

> In message <uLfBiBTnIHA.748@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl> "Tony Sperling"

> <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote:

>

> >Yes - and is this also not proving that re-mapping the BIOS, to make 4GB

> >visible (to the user), isn't giving the system any more memory to work

with

> >(unless there is more than 4GB installed)? The re-mapping relocates the

PCI

> >memory to make the rest visible, but the space it inhabited in the old

> >location is still consumed by the same amount somewhere else.

>

> In a x64 capable system, instead of 4GB you have a 64GB physical address

> space to work with (on today's CPUs and chipsets), the bar is raised

> significantly.

>

> With an address space capable of 16 exabytes, we won't hit a hard limit

> any time soon, and frankly, if you did build a system with 16 exabytes

> of RAM today, you probably wouldn't mind the few KB lost to real mode

> BIOS, nor the ~640MB-1GB lost to hardware.

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

More like 16TB, but x64 Windows is limited to 128GB at this time.

See the table in http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx.

Notice that there are edition specific limits for both client and server

editions. It can be very confusing.

"DevilsPGD" <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote in message

news:qhc3049qgmmuv0jeoset5jh0uvicpjrm81@4ax.com...

> In message <uLfBiBTnIHA.748@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl> "Tony Sperling"

> <tony.sperling@dbREMOVEmail.dk> wrote:

>

>>Yes - and is this also not proving that re-mapping the BIOS, to make 4GB

>>visible (to the user), isn't giving the system any more memory to work

>>with

>>(unless there is more than 4GB installed)? The re-mapping relocates the

>>PCI

>>memory to make the rest visible, but the space it inhabited in the old

>>location is still consumed by the same amount somewhere else.

>

> In a x64 capable system, instead of 4GB you have a 64GB physical address

> space to work with (on today's CPUs and chipsets), the bar is raised

> significantly.

>

> With an address space capable of 16 exabytes, we won't hit a hard limit

> any time soon, and frankly, if you did build a system with 16 exabytes

> of RAM today, you probably wouldn't mind the few KB lost to real mode

> BIOS, nor the ~640MB-1GB lost to hardware.

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

Actually, if we are to believe Microsoft articles, to avoid driver

compatibility issues they *do* throttle the available RAM to 3.12GB on

Vista 32-bit SP1. I'm not 100% sure but I think that disabling DEP (nx

AlwaysOff) may remove the limit and allow users to see a bit more RAM if

the hardware is using less addresses than the imposed limit.

I'm not sure how Windows 32-bit XP2 handles the driver compatibility

issues. If you have an XP SP2 box with 4GB RAM Colin, you could do

tests with and without the /nopae switch (DEP disabled or enabled) and

let us know the results. Disabling PAE automatically disables DEP.

John

Colin Barnhorst wrote:

> That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that

> is reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending

> on the hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a 3.2GB

> limit. The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB does so

> as an example in order to illustrate how the memory available for user

> programs is calculated. It is no more valid for your system than a

> TurboTax example would be for your real return.

>

> <miso@sushi.com> wrote in message

> news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...

>

>> On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:

>>

>>> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr

>>>

>>> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>>> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps

>>> >showing up is beyond me)

>>>

>>> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you

>>> can't access memory above 4GB.

>>>

>>> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't

>>> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.

>>>

>>> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual

>>> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.

>>>

>>> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with

>>> hardware.

>>

>> Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow

>> their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some

>> situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor

>> regarding available memory.

>

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

The 3.12GB is just an example given in a KB explaining why all 4GB are not

available to the user. The actual number varies according to the system.

3.12GB has become a kind of urban legend due to folks not paying attention

to the fact that the author states he giving an example.

"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

news:O8AZPnWnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> Actually, if we are to believe Microsoft articles, to avoid driver

> compatibility issues they *do* throttle the available RAM to 3.12GB on

> Vista 32-bit SP1. I'm not 100% sure but I think that disabling DEP (nx

> AlwaysOff) may remove the limit and allow users to see a bit more RAM if

> the hardware is using less addresses than the imposed limit.

>

> I'm not sure how Windows 32-bit XP2 handles the driver compatibility

> issues. If you have an XP SP2 box with 4GB RAM Colin, you could do tests

> with and without the /nopae switch (DEP disabled or enabled) and let us

> know the results. Disabling PAE automatically disables DEP.

>

> John

>

> Colin Barnhorst wrote:

>

>> That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that is

>> reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending on

>> the hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a 3.2GB

>> limit. The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB does so as

>> an example in order to illustrate how the memory available for user

>> programs is calculated. It is no more valid for your system than a

>> TurboTax example would be for your real return.

>>

>> <miso@sushi.com> wrote in message

>> news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...

>>

>>> On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:

>>>

>>>> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr

>>>>

>>>> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>>>> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps

>>>> >showing up is beyond me)

>>>>

>>>> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you

>>>> can't access memory above 4GB.

>>>>

>>>> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't

>>>> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.

>>>>

>>>> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual

>>>> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.

>>>>

>>>> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with

>>>> hardware.

>>>

>>> Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow

>>> their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some

>>> situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor

>>> regarding available memory.

>>

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

Microsoft *specifically* states that on Vista SP1 the available RAM is

*limited* to 3.12GB.

The reduction in available system memory depends on the devices that are
installed in the computer. However, to avoid potential driver
compatibility issues, the 32-bit versions of Windows Vista limit the
total available memory to 3.12 GB.

[end quote]

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605

That is not presented as an example, it is presented as a fact in the
article. If that isn't the case then Microsoft needs to revise that
article, my ESL may not be perfect but I cannot read any meaning in the
above statement other than RAM is limited to 3.12GB on Vista 32-bit SP1
if DEP is in use.

John

Colin Barnhorst wrote:

> The 3.12GB is just an example given in a KB explaining why all 4GB are
> not available to the user. The actual number varies according to the
> system. 3.12GB has become a kind of urban legend due to folks not paying
> attention to the fact that the author states he giving an example.
>
> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
> news:O8AZPnWnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>> Actually, if we are to believe Microsoft articles, to avoid driver
>> compatibility issues they *do* throttle the available RAM to 3.12GB on
>> Vista 32-bit SP1. I'm not 100% sure but I think that disabling DEP
>> (nx AlwaysOff) may remove the limit and allow users to see a bit more
>> RAM if the hardware is using less addresses than the imposed limit.
>>
>> I'm not sure how Windows 32-bit XP2 handles the driver compatibility
>> issues. If you have an XP SP2 box with 4GB RAM Colin, you could do
>> tests with and without the /nopae switch (DEP disabled or enabled) and
>> let us know the results. Disabling PAE automatically disables DEP.
>>
>> John
>>
>> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>>
>>> That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo
>>> that is reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB,
>>> depending on the hardware on the system. There is simply no such
>>> thing as a 3.2GB limit. The often quoted knowlegebase article that
>>> gives 3.12GB does so as an example in order to illustrate how the
>>> memory available for user programs is calculated. It is no more
>>> valid for your system than a TurboTax example would be for your real
>>> return.
>>>
>>> <miso@sushi.com> wrote in message
>>> news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr
>>>>>
>>>>> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>>> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps
>>>>> >showing up is beyond me)
>>>>>
>>>>> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you
>>>>> can't access memory above 4GB.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't
>>>>> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.
>>>>>
>>>>> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual
>>>>> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with
>>>>> hardware.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow
>>>> their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some
>>>> situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor
>>>> regarding available memory.
>>>
>>>

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

I just booted to XP SP2 32 bit using the /nopae switch, and it still told me

I had 3.00 GB of ram. This is an Asus M2A32.MVP board, Phenom 9600, 4GB of

ram (four 1GB sticks). I'm open to playing with this if anyone has any ideas

as to what I could do to get it to see more memory in XP32. I don't use

XP32, and I have the partition backed up, so I'm not concerned about

corrupting it to the point of needing to be wiped and restored.

XP64 tells me I have 4.00 GB ram.

"John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

news:O8AZPnWnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

> Actually, if we are to believe Microsoft articles, to avoid driver

> compatibility issues they *do* throttle the available RAM to 3.12GB on

> Vista 32-bit SP1. I'm not 100% sure but I think that disabling DEP (nx

> AlwaysOff) may remove the limit and allow users to see a bit more RAM if

> the hardware is using less addresses than the imposed limit.

>

> I'm not sure how Windows 32-bit XP2 handles the driver compatibility

> issues. If you have an XP SP2 box with 4GB RAM Colin, you could do tests

> with and without the /nopae switch (DEP disabled or enabled) and let us

> know the results. Disabling PAE automatically disables DEP.

>

> John

>

> Colin Barnhorst wrote:

>

>> That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that is

>> reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending on

>> the hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a 3.2GB

>> limit. The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB does so as

>> an example in order to illustrate how the memory available for user

>> programs is calculated. It is no more valid for your system than a

>> TurboTax example would be for your real return.

>>

>> <miso@sushi.com> wrote in message

>> news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...

>>

>>> On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:

>>>

>>>> In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr

>>>>

>>>> <De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>>>> >if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps

>>>> >showing up is beyond me)

>>>>

>>>> 2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you

>>>> can't access memory above 4GB.

>>>>

>>>> If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't

>>>> offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.

>>>>

>>>> Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual

>>>> memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.

>>>>

>>>> However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with

>>>> hardware.

>>>

>>> Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow

>>> their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some

>>> situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor

>>> regarding available memory.

>>

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

John John (MVP) wrote:

> Microsoft *specifically* states that on Vista SP1 the available RAM is

> *limited* to 3.12GB.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605

*For example*, the System Information dialog box *may* report 3,120

megabytes (MB) of system memory on a computer that has 4 GB of memory

installed (4,096 MB).

April 13, 2008

Re: When can I use all 8gigs of my memory MS???

You're pretty well stuck with what Windows XP 32-bit is telling you.

There is no way around the problem other than moving to the 64-bit

platform, or start yanking devices out of the box!

John

Zootal wrote:

> I just booted to XP SP2 32 bit using the /nopae switch, and it still told me

> I had 3.00 GB of ram. This is an Asus M2A32.MVP board, Phenom 9600, 4GB of

> ram (four 1GB sticks). I'm open to playing with this if anyone has any ideas

> as to what I could do to get it to see more memory in XP32. I don't use

> XP32, and I have the partition backed up, so I'm not concerned about

> corrupting it to the point of needing to be wiped and restored.

>

> XP64 tells me I have 4.00 GB ram.

>

> "John John (MVP)" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message

> news:O8AZPnWnIHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>

>>Actually, if we are to believe Microsoft articles, to avoid driver

>>compatibility issues they *do* throttle the available RAM to 3.12GB on

>>Vista 32-bit SP1. I'm not 100% sure but I think that disabling DEP (nx

>>AlwaysOff) may remove the limit and allow users to see a bit more RAM if

>>the hardware is using less addresses than the imposed limit.

>>

>>I'm not sure how Windows 32-bit XP2 handles the driver compatibility

>>issues. If you have an XP SP2 box with 4GB RAM Colin, you could do tests

>>with and without the /nopae switch (DEP disabled or enabled) and let us

>>know the results. Disabling PAE automatically disables DEP.

>>

>>John

>>

>>Colin Barnhorst wrote:

>>

>>>That is NOT something MS did at all. It is the BIOS on your mobo that is

>>>reserving the space. My systems show from 2.5GB to 3.5GB, depending on

>>>the hardware on the system. There is simply no such thing as a 3.2GB

>>>limit. The often quoted knowlegebase article that gives 3.12GB does so as

>>>an example in order to illustrate how the memory available for user

>>>programs is calculated. It is no more valid for your system than a

>>>TurboTax example would be for your real return.

>>>

>>><miso@sushi.com> wrote in message

>>>news:d384203d-a73b-40b3-8c7e-de524ddeb5eb@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...

>>>

>>>>On Apr 12, 3:34 pm, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_s...@crazyhat.net> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>>In message <40B437F3-D856-4A95-AB63-B93D7BCF5...@microsoft.com> Defjr

>>>>>

>>>>><De...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>>if you have less than 4 gigs of memory(why that magic number keeps

>>>>>>showing up is beyond me)

>>>>>

>>>>>2^32 is 4GB. If you're using a 32bit integer for address ranges, you

>>>>>can't access memory above 4GB.

>>>>>

>>>>>If you're an operating system, this isn't a big deal, you just don't

>>>>>offer access to memory above 4GB at all and life is good.

>>>>>

>>>>>Applications can usually survive as the operating system's virtual

>>>>>memory subsystem already remaps memory requests.

>>>>>

>>>>>However, drivers don't have that luxury as they deal directly with

>>>>>hardware.

>>>>

>>>>Just to be clear here, while 2**32 is 4G, MS didn't see fit to allow

>>>>their 32 bit OS to see 4G. The limit is around 3.2G. In some

>>>>situations, I believe the Intel chip set is the limiting factor

>>>>regarding available memory.

>>>

>

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