Directx 10 support

[Guest -Karl]

I was watching the tech demos of DX10 and I must say, WOW!. So the

other day, I did a incredibe thing and bought myself the ATI HD 3800

Series card. I'm running under xp64 and upon looking for DX10, I was

surprised to not see it released yet. Now I am seeing games designed

for DX10 so what gives MS? For those without Vista, how do we get

DX10? 32- & 64-Bit users in XP?

[Guest James R.]

Re: Directx 10 support

 

DX10 is Vista+ only.

 

"-Karl" <dinodod@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:3a4fea31-d557-4dda-800b-696a90b88cbb@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

>I was watching the tech demos of DX10 and I must say, WOW!. So the

> other day, I did a incredibe thing and bought myself the ATI HD 3800

> Series card. I'm running under xp64 and upon looking for DX10, I was

> surprised to not see it released yet. Now I am seeing games designed

> for DX10 so what gives MS? For those without Vista, how do we get

> DX10? 32- & 64-Bit users in XP?

>

[Guest -Karl]

Re: Directx 10 support

 

for now, but isn' XP going to have dx10 as well???

 

XP is STILL supported after all

[Guest Zootal]

Re: Directx 10 support

 

It would be a big boon to game devs. How many of us refuse to buy/use Vista?

Game devs spend a fortune on dx10 features, but a big chunk of the market

won't see it if it's Vista only. Making dx10 vista only was not the smartest

thing Microsoft has ever done.

 

"-Karl" <dinodod@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:0f7c9747-cc60-44d7-86a8-617d6c5ee603@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

> for now, but isn' XP going to have dx10 as well???

>

> XP is STILL supported after all

[Guest Chuck Walbourn [MSFT]]

Re: Directx 10 support

 

> for now, but isn' XP going to have dx10 as well???

>

> XP is STILL supported after all

 

From the DirectX FAQ <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb219721.aspx>

 

Q: Will DirectX 10 be available for Windows XP?

 

A: No. Windows Vista, which has DirectX 10, includes an updated DirectX

runtime based on the runtime in Windows XP SP2 (DirectX 9.0c) with changes

to work with the new Windows Display Driver Model (WDDM) and the new audio

driver stack, and with other updates in the operating system. In addition to

Direct3D 9, Windows Vista supports two new interfaces when the correct video

hardware and drivers are present: Direct3D9Ex and Direct3D10.

 

Since these new interfaces rely on the WDDM technology, they will never be

available on earlier versions of Windows. All the other changes made to

DirectX technologies for Windows Vista are also specific to the new version

of Windows. The name DirectX 10 is misleading in that many technologies

shipping in the DirectX SDK (XACT, XINPUT, D3DX) are not encompassed by this

version number. So, referring to the version number of the DirectX runtime

as a whole has lost much of its meaning, even for 9.0c. The DirectX

Diagnostic Tool (DXdiag.exe) on Windows Vista does report DirectX 10, but

this really only refers to Direct3D 10.

 

 

Q: What changes were made to the DirectX runtime for Windows Vista?

 

A: The primary changes were to support the new Windows Display Driver Model.

For details on the new driver model, impacts on Direct3D 9, and on the two

new graphics interfaces, Direct3D 9Ex and Direct3D 10, review Graphics APIs

in Windows Vista. <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb173477.aspx>

 

DirectSound was updated to expose the capabilities of the new Windows Vista

audio driver stack, which supports multi-channel software buffers. The

Direct3D Retained Mode API was completely removed from Windows Vista.

DirectPlay Voice was also removed, as well as DirectPlay's NAT Helper and

DirectInput's action-mapper UI. Support for the DirectX 7 and DirectX 8

interfaces for Visual Basic 6.0 is not available on Windows Vista.

 

--

Chuck Walbourn

SDE, XNA Developer Connection

 

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

[Guest Zootal]

Re: Directx 10 support

 

So it sounds like the DirectX 10 architecture was designed from the start to

only work with Vista and on. I can understand that - after all, Microsoft

expected everyone to ditch XP and upgrade to Vista. What they did not expect

was the mass rebellion against Vista, and the many people that stick to XP

and refuse to move to Vista. Unanticipated consequences....and now you have

a lot of people out there who don't give a rats arse about DirectX 10,

because none of use are willing to use Vista. This in turn reduces the value

of DirectX 10, and makes it worth less for game devs to include it in their

games.

 

Maybe it's time for a resurgence of OGL? :-)

>

> From the DirectX FAQ

> <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb219721.aspx>

>

> Q: Will DirectX 10 be available for Windows XP?

>

> A: No. Windows Vista, which has DirectX 10, includes an updated DirectX

> runtime based on the runtime in Windows XP SP2 (DirectX 9.0c) with changes

> to work with the new Windows Display Driver Model (WDDM) and the new audio

> driver stack, and with other updates in the operating system. In addition

> to Direct3D 9, Windows Vista supports two new interfaces when the correct

> video hardware and drivers are present: Direct3D9Ex and Direct3D10.

>

> Since these new interfaces rely on the WDDM technology, they will never be

> available on earlier versions of Windows. All the other changes made to

> DirectX technologies for Windows Vista are also specific to the new

> version of Windows. The name DirectX 10 is misleading in that many

> technologies shipping in the DirectX SDK (XACT, XINPUT, D3DX) are not

> encompassed by this version number. So, referring to the version number of

> the DirectX runtime as a whole has lost much of its meaning, even for

> 9.0c. The DirectX Diagnostic Tool (DXdiag.exe) on Windows Vista does

> report DirectX 10, but this really only refers to Direct3D 10.

>

>

> Q: What changes were made to the DirectX runtime for Windows Vista?

>

> A: The primary changes were to support the new Windows Display Driver

> Model. For details on the new driver model, impacts on Direct3D 9, and on

> the two new graphics interfaces, Direct3D 9Ex and Direct3D 10, review

> Graphics APIs in Windows Vista.

> <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb173477.aspx>

>

> DirectSound was updated to expose the capabilities of the new Windows

> Vista audio driver stack, which supports multi-channel software buffers.

> The Direct3D Retained Mode API was completely removed from Windows Vista.

> DirectPlay Voice was also removed, as well as DirectPlay's NAT Helper and

> DirectInput's action-mapper UI. Support for the DirectX 7 and DirectX 8

> interfaces for Visual Basic 6.0 is not available on Windows Vista.

>

> --

> Chuck Walbourn

> SDE, XNA Developer Connection

>

> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no

> rights.

>

[Guest Jud Hendrix]

Re: Directx 10 support

 

On Mon, 5 May 2008 19:09:25 -0700, "Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com>

wrote:

>So it sounds like the DirectX 10 architecture was designed from the start to

>only work with Vista and on.

 

Not so sure about that. I heard some people around me, mention some kind of

alpha/beta(/gamma/delta)-release DX10 for XP32 to be downloadable on the

internet. I don't think any of them has actually tried to install it, as

they are serious gamers, and not willing to screw up their system. But

then, when I told them that they could "Ghost" the system-disk, some eyes

started glimmering. So i'll just sit back and listen to the guinea-pigs

reports.

Anyway, a quick search on "DX10 XP", gave some links:

http://leechermods.blogspot.com/2008/04/directx-10-for-xp-3264bit-rc2-fix-2-new.html

http://www.techmixer.com/download-directx-10-for-windows-xp/

 

jud

[Guest Colin Barnhorst]

Re: Directx 10 support

 

Alky Project. See: http://alkyproject.blogspot.com/

 

"Jud Hendrix" <none@none.com> wrote in message

news:u8t024ld7v0mpasjvem9hubikcqmcdn659@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 5 May 2008 19:09:25 -0700, "Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com>

> wrote:

>

>>So it sounds like the DirectX 10 architecture was designed from the start

>>to

>>only work with Vista and on.

>

> Not so sure about that. I heard some people around me, mention some kind

> of

> alpha/beta(/gamma/delta)-release DX10 for XP32 to be downloadable on the

> internet. I don't think any of them has actually tried to install it, as

> they are serious gamers, and not willing to screw up their system. But

> then, when I told them that they could "Ghost" the system-disk, some eyes

> started glimmering. So i'll just sit back and listen to the guinea-pigs

> reports.

> Anyway, a quick search on "DX10 XP", gave some links:

> http://leechermods.blogspot.com/2008/04/directx-10-for-xp-3264bit-rc2-fix-2-new.html

> http://www.techmixer.com/download-directx-10-for-windows-xp/

>

> jud

[Guest Chuck Walbourn [MSFT]]

Re: Directx 10 support

 

The photos on that page look supicously like the press mockups rather than

actual in-game rendering. Where are in-game XP screenshots of Bioshock, Lord

of the Rings Online, etc.?

 

Whatever these guys have done is a hack to get the API to redirect to the

XPDM for things that exist in common with D3D9. Unless they've gotten

NVIDIA, AMD/ATI, and Intel to expose features in their drivers in private

APIs that exposes new D3D10 DDI features, they are basically getting you

nothing but D3D9 using the D3D10 API. The whole point of Direct3D 10 is that

it's a package of new APIs, new HLSL compiler technology, new driver model,

and better integration with the overall system.

 

There no doubt that there's an immense amount of FUD around Windows Vista.

Most of it isn't technically justified, but then again FUD usually isn't

based on technical merits at all. It's based on perception. Direct3D10,

WDDM, UAC, RDTSC-based kernel scheduling, MMCS, and many other technologies

that debut in Windows Vista are investments Microsoft has made in the

platform. Fixes in common in our current OS that make sense to move

downlevel to Windows XP are done all the time, but getting major new

technology components to work in the older OS is as much work as writing a

new OS in the first place. It requires an entirely new generation of

drivers. These changes need implementation, testing, vetting, and an

infrastructure of third party support. Microsoft has already done all this:

its' called Windows Vista.

 

Microsoft is on track to stop selling Windows XP at the end of this month,

and this means you won't see Windows XP at the stores or through OEMs.

Microsoft still supports existing customers and system builders can still

get it for another six months. The only version of Windows XP we will

continue to sell is Home Edition through OEMs only for Ultra Low-Cost PCs.

 

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx

 

--

Chuck Walbourn

SDE, XNA Developer Connection

 

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

[Guest Colin Barnhorst]

Re: Directx 10 support

 

Yeah, the DirectX 10 hack is not something I would risk on my systems. Some

third-party search tool is one thing, but they can't have the resources to

back something like DirectX.

 

"Chuck Walbourn [MSFT]" <chuckw@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:ew4c7e%23rIHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> The photos on that page look supicously like the press mockups rather than

> actual in-game rendering. Where are in-game XP screenshots of Bioshock,

> Lord of the Rings Online, etc.?

>

> Whatever these guys have done is a hack to get the API to redirect to the

> XPDM for things that exist in common with D3D9. Unless they've gotten

> NVIDIA, AMD/ATI, and Intel to expose features in their drivers in private

> APIs that exposes new D3D10 DDI features, they are basically getting you

> nothing but D3D9 using the D3D10 API. The whole point of Direct3D 10 is

> that it's a package of new APIs, new HLSL compiler technology, new driver

> model, and better integration with the overall system.

>

> There no doubt that there's an immense amount of FUD around Windows Vista.

> Most of it isn't technically justified, but then again FUD usually isn't

> based on technical merits at all. It's based on perception. Direct3D10,

> WDDM, UAC, RDTSC-based kernel scheduling, MMCS, and many other

> technologies that debut in Windows Vista are investments Microsoft has

> made in the platform. Fixes in common in our current OS that make sense to

> move downlevel to Windows XP are done all the time, but getting major new

> technology components to work in the older OS is as much work as writing a

> new OS in the first place. It requires an entirely new generation of

> drivers. These changes need implementation, testing, vetting, and an

> infrastructure of third party support. Microsoft has already done all

> this: its' called Windows Vista.

>

> Microsoft is on track to stop selling Windows XP at the end of this month,

> and this means you won't see Windows XP at the stores or through OEMs.

> Microsoft still supports existing customers and system builders can still

> get it for another six months. The only version of Windows XP we will

> continue to sell is Home Edition through OEMs only for Ultra Low-Cost PCs.

>

> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx

>

> --

> Chuck Walbourn

> SDE, XNA Developer Connection

>

> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no

> rights.

>

>

[Guest Zootal]

Re: Directx 10 support

 

<snip>

> There no doubt that there's an immense amount of FUD around Windows Vista.

> Most of it isn't technically justified, but then again FUD usually isn't

> based on technical merits at all. It's based on perception.

<snip>

 

Perception is 99% of success, my friend. Without it, you are guaranteed

failure. And right now, Vista doesn't have much of that is good. Microsoft

should have invested more time in learning what people out there in the real

world want, instead of telling us what we want. If they had done so, Vista

would have been the success they thought it was going to be.

[Guest James R.]

Re: Directx 10 support

 

"Perception is 99% of success"? Did you learn that at havard business school

before you went on to found your own fortune 500 company? I kind of doubt

it. MS said before Vista was released that they projected 200 million sales

in 24 months, so far at 14 or so months they're at 140 million, that'll make

it about 240 million at 24 months, way over what they estimated, Vista is

only a failure to professional internet fudders, everyone else is enjoying a

fast, stable, secure OS.

 

"Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message

news:u%23dK9B$rIHA.4560@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> <snip>

>> There no doubt that there's an immense amount of FUD around Windows

>> Vista. Most of it isn't technically justified, but then again FUD usually

>> isn't based on technical merits at all. It's based on perception.

> <snip>

>

> Perception is 99% of success, my friend. Without it, you are guaranteed

> failure. And right now, Vista doesn't have much of that is good. Microsoft

> should have invested more time in learning what people out there in the

> real world want, instead of telling us what we want. If they had done so,

> Vista would have been the success they thought it was going to be.

>